Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 16, 2023, 01:07:58 PMToo often I find that crpgs write the world and characters as revolving around the PC and having nothing outside of that. I'm already burned out on the Tolkien-ripoff fantasy genre, I really don't like this kind of writing either. I like being able to suspend my disbelief.

That's what rubs me especially about this in BG3.
The companions are like that, with their own personal agendas and will leave the PC in the dust if you stray too far from their goals. You can kill them, have them attempt to kill you, leave you, etc.You can even turn your entire party against you and have 1vs3 battles due to this (obviously more likely in the evil playthrough but still).
I am honestly positively surprised by this.

.... except when it comes to romance, where everyone's playersexual.
It's like having the perfect cake, but then someone puts a rotten apple on it instead of the cherry on top.
So now a lot of people point at that rotten apple to say the whole thing is rotten instead of acknowledging the rest. It's such a damn shame.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 16, 2023, 01:07:58 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 16, 2023, 06:45:46 AM
I'd prefer it done the way BoxCrayonTales mentions. Have no issue with them including romancing options and sex, but characters throwing themselves at you and only you from the getgo is retarded. It should be built up slowly, unless the NPC is a nymph, and companions should be able to romance each other as well (perhaps prompted by you, either IC, or OOC by letting you pick the NPC's dialog options).

I don't think the player should be an outright matchmaker, but that's just me.

Why not, though?
Considering a PnP scenario, if I saw two NPCs or companions that I thought would be a nice match, I might at least try.
Hooking up your friends if given a sensible match and chance is not that alien of a concept, right? It happens, so it might happen in games as well.

Of course, the amount of writing that would have to be done outside of a PnP scenario for this to work would be absolutely insane so the chance we'll actually see it happen are slim.

By now, I think that Baldur's Gate 3 is worth of a different post, i.e. other developers are going crazy because "it is too good". This is meant in the literal sense: "If people come to expect that AAA titles will have the contents of BG3 the industry is f***ed" (Ubisoft, Bethesda, Obsidian et al.) This comes as we face the era of GIGANTIC open-world games AI procedurally generated. Ironically, I was there when "Morrowind" (2002) was hailed as a masterpiece because "each fork you find in the game was placed there by someone..."

Regarding bear porn-gate, Larian says "Thank you". People normally sane, like Melonie Mac Goes Boom (once upon a time a beacon of light amid the woke crowd) made videos about how BG3 shows how ALL THE INDUSTRY IS NOW MADE BY DEGENERATES (I'm enjoying American Truck Simulator - can 't wait for the "Degenerate DLC" for that game), while others point out how BG3 is "an immense open-world nonsense of Rockstar-level proportions" (the makers of the Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption lines are bowing their heads in shame for their failures).

And THIS is the real value of BG3. It is the Pathfinder vs. 4E (and I was the first to admit that PF went for the young adults crowd ditching a level of maturity seldom recognized in the 3/3.5E era). It is Pundit (and I'm not browning my nose here) vs. nu-WotC. How they DARE to publish such an immense, satisfying game, in the era of ballooning budgets and empty, by the numbers open worlds?

I didn't comment on BG3 until it was out. Then, after two hours, I had to stop, as running it under Parallels on a MacBook Pro caused too many graphical glitches (I'll play it when back in Italy, now I'm in France for work). I, thus, can't comment on the depths of the game, much less on the relationships' mechanism. I can guess that when you publish for the first time a game so big you may fear that players will miss content - and this leads to an unwelcome "mobbing" of the player by this content. If so, I hope that Larian will learn. However, two hours were enough to see how people ENRAGED by A, B,C, didn't even launch the game once while it was in early access.

As I said before, and will say a lot hereafter, "The wokes, right now, are trundling into the Abyss. This is a fact slowly (and painfully) realized across the whole entertainment industry. If we follow them because we don't know when to stop, then they will win in a way unexpected even for them.

Quote from: TheSHEEEP on August 17, 2023, 02:38:42 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 16, 2023, 01:07:58 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 16, 2023, 06:45:46 AM
I'd prefer it done the way BoxCrayonTales mentions. Have no issue with them including romancing options and sex, but characters throwing themselves at you and only you from the getgo is retarded. It should be built up slowly, unless the NPC is a nymph, and companions should be able to romance each other as well (perhaps prompted by you, either IC, or OOC by letting you pick the NPC's dialog options).

I don't think the player should be an outright matchmaker, but that's just me.

Why not, though?
Considering a PnP scenario, if I saw two NPCs or companions that I thought would be a nice match, I might at least try.
Hooking up your friends if given a sensible match and chance is not that alien of a concept, right? It happens, so it might happen in games as well.

Of course, the amount of writing that would have to be done outside of a PnP scenario for this to work would be absolutely insane so the chance we'll actually see it happen are slim.

To clarify, it's because I think the player should be playing a role rather than playing god with the game world. If a writer can make it feel organic, then okay... but too many game writers opt for ham-fisted writing.

This convo actually inspired an idea. I was thinking: if the PC tries to micromanage his friends, then they'll notice and confront him about being a control freak. In a speculative fiction setting where the PC has mind control, he has the option to mind control his friends to ensure their compliance. Eventually they'll notice, call him a mind rapist, and abandon him. Forever. If they don't try to kill him first.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 17, 2023, 07:55:47 PM

Quote from: TheSHEEEP on August 17, 2023, 02:38:42 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 16, 2023, 01:07:58 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 16, 2023, 06:45:46 AM
I'd prefer it done the way BoxCrayonTales mentions. Have no issue with them including romancing options and sex, but characters throwing themselves at you and only you from the getgo is retarded. It should be built up slowly, unless the NPC is a nymph, and companions should be able to romance each other as well (perhaps prompted by you, either IC, or OOC by letting you pick the NPC's dialog options).

I don't think the player should be an outright matchmaker, but that's just me.

Why not, though?
Considering a PnP scenario, if I saw two NPCs or companions that I thought would be a nice match, I might at least try.
Hooking up your friends if given a sensible match and chance is not that alien of a concept, right? It happens, so it might happen in games as well.

Of course, the amount of writing that would have to be done outside of a PnP scenario for this to work would be absolutely insane so the chance we'll actually see it happen are slim.

To clarify, it's because I think the player should be playing a role rather than playing god with the game world. If a writer can make it feel organic, then okay... but too many game writers opt for ham-fisted writing.

This convo actually inspired an idea. I was thinking: if the PC tries to micromanage his friends, then they'll notice and confront him about being a control freak. In a speculative fiction setting where the PC has mind control, he has the option to mind control his friends to ensure their compliance. Eventually they'll notice, call him a mind rapist, and abandon him. Forever. If they don't try to kill him first.

Sometimes the idea of being a matchmaker makes sense, though. Plus it also provides a mechanism for you to experience different NPC romances in one playthrough, even if you don't want to romance them yourself. But I get that it can also come off as silly if overdone. But still not as silly as NPCs throwing themselves at you and only you. Some of them being annoyed at your attempts to push them into romance could work too.

Quote from: Reckall on August 17, 2023, 04:45:04 PM
By now, I think that Baldur's Gate 3 is worth of a different post, i.e. other developers are going crazy because "it is too good". This is meant in the literal sense: "If people come to expect that AAA titles will have the contents of BG3 the industry is f***ed" (Ubisoft, Bethesda, Obsidian et al.) This comes as we face the era of GIGANTIC open-world games AI procedurally generated. Ironically, I was there when "Morrowind" (2002) was hailed as a masterpiece because "each fork you find in the game was placed there by someone..."

Regarding bear porn-gate, Larian says "Thank you". People normally sane, like Melonie Mac Goes Boom (once upon a time a beacon of light amid the woke crowd) made videos about how BG3 shows how ALL THE INDUSTRY IS NOW MADE BY DEGENERATES (I'm enjoying American Truck Simulator - can 't wait for the "Degenerate DLC" for that game), while others point out how BG3 is "an immense open-world nonsense of Rockstar-level proportions" (the makers of the Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption lines are bowing their heads in shame for their failures).

And THIS is the real value of BG3. It is the Pathfinder vs. 4E (and I was the first to admit that PF went for the young adults crowd ditching a level of maturity seldom recognized in the 3/3.5E era). It is Pundit (and I'm not browning my nose here) vs. nu-WotC. How they DARE to publish such an immense, satisfying game, in the era of ballooning budgets and empty, by the numbers open worlds?

I didn't comment on BG3 until it was out. Then, after two hours, I had to stop, as running it under Parallels on a MacBook Pro caused too many graphical glitches (I'll play it when back in Italy, now I'm in France for work). I, thus, can't comment on the depths of the game, much less on the relationships' mechanism. I can guess that when you publish for the first time a game so big you may fear that players will miss content - and this leads to an unwelcome "mobbing" of the player by this content. If so, I hope that Larian will learn. However, two hours were enough to see how people ENRAGED by A, B,C, didn't even launch the game once while it was in early access.

As I said before, and will say a lot hereafter, "The wokes, right now, are trundling into the Abyss. This is a fact slowly (and painfully) realized across the whole entertainment industry. If we follow them because we don't know when to stop, then they will win in a way unexpected even for them.

But I wonder whether BG3 might be one of the last big "traditional" video games before AI completely transforms the gaming experience.

Quote from: Reckall on August 17, 2023, 04:45:04 PM
By now, I think that Baldur's Gate 3 is worth of a different post, i.e. other developers are going crazy because "it is too good". This is meant in the literal sense: "If people come to expect that AAA titles will have the contents of BG3 the industry is f***ed" (Ubisoft, Bethesda, Obsidian et al.) This comes as we face the era of GIGANTIC open-world games AI procedurally generated. Ironically, I was there when "Morrowind" (2002) was hailed as a masterpiece because "each fork you find in the game was placed there by someone..."

Regarding bear porn-gate, Larian says "Thank you". People normally sane, like Melonie Mac Goes Boom (once upon a time a beacon of light amid the woke crowd) made videos about how BG3 shows how ALL THE INDUSTRY IS NOW MADE BY DEGENERATES (I'm enjoying American Truck Simulator - can 't wait for the "Degenerate DLC" for that game), while others point out how BG3 is "an immense open-world nonsense of Rockstar-level proportions" (the makers of the Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption lines are bowing their heads in shame for their failures).

And THIS is the real value of BG3. It is the Pathfinder vs. 4E (and I was the first to admit that PF went for the young adults crowd ditching a level of maturity seldom recognized in the 3/3.5E era). It is Pundit (and I'm not browning my nose here) vs. nu-WotC. How they DARE to publish such an immense, satisfying game, in the era of ballooning budgets and empty, by the numbers open worlds?

I didn't comment on BG3 until it was out. Then, after two hours, I had to stop, as running it under Parallels on a MacBook Pro caused too many graphical glitches (I'll play it when back in Italy, now I'm in France for work). I, thus, can't comment on the depths of the game, much less on the relationships' mechanism. I can guess that when you publish for the first time a game so big you may fear that players will miss content - and this leads to an unwelcome "mobbing" of the player by this content. If so, I hope that Larian will learn. However, two hours were enough to see how people ENRAGED by A, B,C, didn't even launch the game once while it was in early access.

As I said before, and will say a lot hereafter, "The wokes, right now, are trundling into the Abyss. This is a fact slowly (and painfully) realized across the whole entertainment industry. If we follow them because we don't know when to stop, then they will win in a way unexpected even for them.

I admit, the funniest part has been how some of the triple-A studios are freaking out because BG3 didn't catch on fire, fall over, and sink into the digital swamp on launch day (unlike some other titles).

I'm still annoyed at the heavy inclusion of sex options (guys, I wanna fight the dragons plz). And I don't buy titles on launch or preorder these days. Nothing personal, just been burned a few times. We'll see when it goes on sale though.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on August 18, 2023, 07:24:14 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 17, 2023, 04:45:04 PM
By now, I think that Baldur's Gate 3 is worth of a different post, i.e. other developers are going crazy because "it is too good". This is meant in the literal sense: "If people come to expect that AAA titles will have the contents of BG3 the industry is f***ed" (Ubisoft, Bethesda, Obsidian et al.) This comes as we face the era of GIGANTIC open-world games AI procedurally generated. Ironically, I was there when "Morrowind" (2002) was hailed as a masterpiece because "each fork you find in the game was placed there by someone..."

Regarding bear porn-gate, Larian says "Thank you". People normally sane, like Melonie Mac Goes Boom (once upon a time a beacon of light amid the woke crowd) made videos about how BG3 shows how ALL THE INDUSTRY IS NOW MADE BY DEGENERATES (I'm enjoying American Truck Simulator - can 't wait for the "Degenerate DLC" for that game), while others point out how BG3 is "an immense open-world nonsense of Rockstar-level proportions" (the makers of the Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption lines are bowing their heads in shame for their failures).

And THIS is the real value of BG3. It is the Pathfinder vs. 4E (and I was the first to admit that PF went for the young adults crowd ditching a level of maturity seldom recognized in the 3/3.5E era). It is Pundit (and I'm not browning my nose here) vs. nu-WotC. How they DARE to publish such an immense, satisfying game, in the era of ballooning budgets and empty, by the numbers open worlds?

I didn't comment on BG3 until it was out. Then, after two hours, I had to stop, as running it under Parallels on a MacBook Pro caused too many graphical glitches (I'll play it when back in Italy, now I'm in France for work). I, thus, can't comment on the depths of the game, much less on the relationships' mechanism. I can guess that when you publish for the first time a game so big you may fear that players will miss content - and this leads to an unwelcome "mobbing" of the player by this content. If so, I hope that Larian will learn. However, two hours were enough to see how people ENRAGED by A, B,C, didn't even launch the game once while it was in early access.

As I said before, and will say a lot hereafter, "The wokes, right now, are trundling into the Abyss. This is a fact slowly (and painfully) realized across the whole entertainment industry. If we follow them because we don't know when to stop, then they will win in a way unexpected even for them.

But I wonder whether BG3 might be one of the last big "traditional" video games before AI completely transforms the gaming experience.

I think AI is stupid. The reason I enjoy rpgs is because I'm looking for a handcrafted story.

AI is just generating whatever seems superficially comprehensible based on its input. It's pure filler. No AI generated rpg will have a coherent plot or be memorable like a handcrafted story.

Right now AIs cannot generate coherent plots on their own. Even AI trained to help you write novels needs constant micromanaging to produce a coherent result. It's basically a crappy solution searching for a problem.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2023, 10:24:05 AM
I'm still annoyed at the heavy inclusion of sex options (guys, I wanna fight the dragons plz). And I don't buy titles on launch or preorder these days. Nothing personal, just been burned a few times. We'll see when it goes on sale though.

I don't know if I misunderstood you here (if so I'm sorry) but BG3 is already on sale. It is breaking sale records with the PC version alone, while the PS5 version, due this September, is on the top of the pre-orders for that console.

If you meant "when BG3 will be sold with a discount" then OK

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 18, 2023, 12:09:12 PM
I think AI is stupid. The reason I enjoy rpgs is because I'm looking for a handcrafted story.

AI is just generating whatever seems superficially comprehensible based on its input. It's pure filler. No AI generated rpg will have a coherent plot or be memorable like a handcrafted story.

I bought the "Ezio Auditore Trilogy" trilogy of Assassin's Creed games for Switch, and they are, gameplay wise, a whole generation beyond the current crop of AC games. One reason is that I worked on them, of course, but the other is how well every single element of the game is thought out. You have to plan assassination missions by gathering gata first (scout the environment, the target's habits, the escape route... and there isn't a single way you have to find: the beauty of the thing is to see that your own plan works). Some important things are located in places hard to get and sometimes finding a route requires looking around and using skill. The fighting system is elegant, with different moves and blows, without being as complex as the "Souls" games.

Today AC gives you Ancient Greece in 1:1 scale, but then you only to keep pressed the "climb" button to arrive everywhere. Formally they have combat moves, but mashing the hit button switching at random between fast and heavy attacks is enough. The characters are flat, and the missions... let's say that I seldom remember what I did one hour ago.

Then BG3 arrives and Ubisoft panics. They should be panicking had someone arrived with Assassin's Creed II! It's that bad.

It is not even the first time that this happens. EA ruined Sim City, so today the city building game is Cities Skylines. CS is "simply" Sim City done right. They are ruining the Sims as The Sims 4 is a sad cash grab and nothing more, and they are peeing themselves because the announced Life by You is simply what the game should have been after The (very good) The Sims 3.

Call of Duty, FIFA, Star Wars Battlegrounds... All skeletons of games based on micro transactions galore.

Then these yahoos arrive and publish an enormous game, complete, no DLC, no DRM, polished from Day One (even the problem with saves was quite rare and situational, and it was fixed after a couple of days) - I mean, you can even have Bear Porn! In a single strike, they said "It isn't that this kind of game can't be done, because we did; it is that they don't want to do it."

The only additional thing I can add is that I fear how the other companies don't even know how to do such games anymore - except Rockstar, that, unsurprisingly, is the only one who is not being offended by BG3.

Quote from: Reckall on August 19, 2023, 08:05:53 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2023, 10:24:05 AM
I'm still annoyed at the heavy inclusion of sex options (guys, I wanna fight the dragons plz). And I don't buy titles on launch or preorder these days. Nothing personal, just been burned a few times. We'll see when it goes on sale though.

I don't know if I misunderstood you here (if so I'm sorry) but BG3 is already on sale. It is breaking sale records with the PC version alone, while the PS5 version, due this September, is on the top of the pre-orders for that console.

If you meant "when BG3 will be sold with a discount" then OK

The latter. I try to not pay full price for games these days, even if I want to support the devs.

I agree this belongs under videogames.

I'm still annoyed at the heavy inclusion of sex options (guys, I wanna fight the dragons plz). And I don't buy titles on launch or preorder these days. Nothing personal, just been burned a few times. We'll see when it goes on sale though.
Hubspot partner agency

Quote from: Bruteleenandrane on September 05, 2023, 07:08:38 AM
I'm still annoyed at the heavy inclusion of sex options (guys, I wanna fight the dragons plz). And I don't buy titles on launch or preorder these days. Nothing personal, just been burned a few times. We'll see when it goes on sale though.
Hubspot partner agency

I'm the same. I don't buy video games unless Steam has them on sale. Most of the bugs are eliminated by then as well.

Seems that companions will get less horny, because Sony didn't like it:

Quote from: Rhymer88 on September 08, 2023, 03:19:24 AM
Seems that companions will get less horny, because Sony didn't like it:

Cue the degenerates complaining about it in 5, 4...