Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
Fourth, it is the Americans who have this unhealthy obsession with "furries" (*) I can easily see a European looking at bear porn and finding it very funny (and juvenile).

So you're saying Europeans are degenerates who are into beastiality?  Gocha!

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 17, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.

Because it's not about sex.  It's about narcissism.  These deviants define themselves by their deviancy.  And everything has to be about them.  So if they don't see their deviancy in any work or endeavor, they are being "erased" or "silenced," because they can't imagine anything not centered around themselves (and their kinks).  It's a bunch of little children screaming at the top of their lungs, "What about ME!!!!"

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 17, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 17, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.

Because it's not about sex.  It's about narcissism.  These deviants define themselves by their deviancy.  And everything has to be about them.  So if they don't see their deviancy in any work or endeavor, they are being "erased" or "silenced," because they can't imagine anything not centered around themselves (and their kinks).  It's a bunch of little children screaming at the top of their lungs, "What about ME!!!!"

It is still something foreign over here. Maybe there are people who do it dressed as Wily E. Coyote, but if they do it stays in the bedroom. I'll check Wikipedia about furries in Europe. Anyway, when this "fear of furries" was explained to us by our American relatives, the reaction was the kind of

...Www...hat?!...

...from Penny in The Big Bang Theory.

People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

The fact that you think you have fewer mental issues than someone that likes being choked during sex is rather amusing.

I don't play video games at all, so I don't have much basis for comparison. I've heard of perverse and/or violent sexual content in games like Grand Theft Auto, but never played anything like that.

What's the expectation for sexual content in "Mature" rated video games?

In other media, sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters have been around a while in the mainstream with no perceived connection to furries, necrophilia, or zoophilia. Sexy vampires are too numerous to count. For shapeshifters, I think of Cat People or The Howling. The 1942 original of Cat People is much tamer as opposed to the lurid sex scenes of the 1982 remake, but it was always sexual. This continues in more recent media like Twilight and True Blood, which have both (i.e. sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters). I've seen several versions of werewolf sex, but I guess it's OK because both of the partners transformed (?). In a video game with many choices, it seems like a obvious gimmick to throw in, especially as a joke.

Fantasy like being turned on by monster alien babes or panther-shifting Natasha Kinski doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about closer-to-home fantasies like schoolgirl outfits, and "young teen" or "stepsister" as tags.

I'm curious, does anyone know the Furry numbers of the population? As a percentage or whatever? I would not have though they were large enough for corporations to cater to but obviously...

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
I don't play video games at all, so I don't have much basis for comparison. I've heard of perverse and/or violent sexual content in games like Grand Theft Auto, but never played anything like that.

What's the expectation for sexual content in "Mature" rated video games?

I was pretty deep into videogames until around 4-5 years ago (I even used to do a gaming podcast), so my knowledge might be a little out of date, but I was once pretty into this.

It's worth noting that the ratings and content tendencies have a lot variance between different gaming scenes and cultures. For example, the Japanese ratings board is famously more liberal about sexual content, but much more strict on gore. IIRC several of the Mortal Kombat games have actually been banned in Japan. Western authorities are usually the opposite, and the games produced by the two cultures tend to reflect that.

I think for most people the expectation for an M rated game was set by the Witcher and Mass Effect series. The Witcher has toplessness, fade-to-black sex scenes, and occasionally something silly or "exotic" (Geralt and Yennefer having sex on top of a stuffed unicorn probably being the most famous example). Mass effect had even tamer sex scenes, but kind of standardized the idea that RPGs should have both straight and gay romance options. The gore in both is pretty mild, though the subject matter of the violence can be quite mature (genocide, assassination, war crimes etc.).

The irony is that mainstream games are on average tamer than what you can easily see on tv these days. The Witcher games have less nudity and gore than Game of Thrones. Grand Theft Auto earned its reputation by pioneering the idea of sandbox games allowing you to play like a complete psycho, with GTA 3 famously being the first game where you could pick up hooker and then kill her to get your money back. As bad as that sounds, though, what it actually means is about 20 seconds of the car rocking with some PG-13 voiceover, and then the hooker's character model humorously ragdoll-ing and a low res blood pool on the ground. Even the most recent GTA is considerably less graphic and mature than The Wire. 

A few mainstream games have pushed the boundaries, like Age of Conan and Cyberpunk 2077 for nudity, or God of War, the Last of Us and Mortal Kombat for gore, but honestly its nothing out of step with the rest of entertainment.

I'll stress again that this is mainstream games. Independent games sometimes push things a little further, and there's a huge market of porno games, but that's a whole different thing.

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
In other media, sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters have been around a while in the mainstream with no perceived connection to furries, necrophilia, or zoophilia. Sexy vampires are too numerous to count. For shapeshifters, I think of Cat People or The Howling. The 1942 original of Cat People is much tamer as opposed to the lurid sex scenes of the 1982 remake, but it was always sexual. This continues in more recent media like Twilight and True Blood, which have both (i.e. sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters). I've seen several versions of werewolf sex, but I guess it's OK because both of the partners transformed (?). In a video game with many choices, it seems like a obvious gimmick to throw in, especially as a joke.

I do think that people blowing the "necrophilia" whistle on this are doing so a little disingenuously. Sex is a core element of the vampire story going all the way back to Dracula. This is especially true with the increasingly nebulous definition of "undead" in D&D (I believe you can now canonically be born a vampire), but it's always been understood that a vampire is not just a mobile corpse.

When it comes to stuff like cat people or werewolves, there seems to be a bit of a sliding scale. As I said before, I think the closer the participants get to real animals, the creepier it gets. Give a girl cat ears and no one bats an eye. Give her a tail or whiskers and you lose some people. Give her paws and you lose some more. The "Ok I'mma head out" moment for most viewers seems to be when you give her full body fur and/or a cat head. A lot more people seem to be ok with porn involving orcs, demons, and even eldritch horrors, than are ok with anthropomorphized animals. Personally I think the fantastical elements kind of insulate the mind from thinking about the "real world" consequences of what's being depicted.

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
Fantasy like being turned on by monster alien babes or panther-shifting Natasha Kinski doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about closer-to-home fantasies like schoolgirl outfits, and "young teen" or "stepsister" as tags.

Eh, the "schoolgirl" thing has been around forever. In most cases, I think it's just a product of the age most guys are when they start noticing girls (though there are obviously more suspect motivations as well).

The "step" thing, on the other hand, does baffle and concern me. I used to write it off as an unhealthy byproduct of so many people being raised in blended families these days, but it's so transparently just a code-word for actual incest. I saw part of an interview ages ago (I want to say it was on Joe Rogan's show, but don't quote me) where the guy was explaining that the reason why all porn actresses where being classified as either "milf" or "teen" was not actually consumer preference, but those terms being useful for search optimization. Possibly the "step" thing started the same way, but I don't know.

Quote from: Ruprecht on July 17, 2023, 07:38:01 PM
I'm curious, does anyone know the Furry numbers of the population? As a percentage or whatever? I would not have though they were large enough for corporations to cater to but obviously...

We could ask for a show of paws?

The entirety of Western media has destroyed itself chasing 4% of the population, why not salt the Earth to appeal to Furries?

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
I think that one of the best answers to the question was given by Will Wrigth, the creator of "The Sims", when I interviewed him long ago. One question involved how in The Sims you could have homosexual relationships, sex before marriage, cheating... and yet many Christians played the game and enjoyed it. Wrigth said:

"You can do certain things in the game, or choose not to do them, according to your world view. Without choice your actions have no meaning."

Now if only players stopped basing their Sims characters on their IRL friends and family.

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
"If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine..."

Not necessarily.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 16, 2023, 08:17:18 AM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

We're in the societal mess we're in BECAUSE we've been ignoring it... presumably hoping the woke perverts would someday be satisfied.

We're now at necro-ursinephilia in this game because the Left by nature must continually transgress the current boundaries of social acceptability. There is no depravity too taboo for them to not want to transgress it if they think they can get away with it.

They accomplished this by first pushing that tolerance of perversion was a virtue while they were weak. Now that they have control they now seek fines and jail time for those who fail to support and pay for inflicting genital mutilation and a lifetime of chemical dependency on Big Pharma on their children while the school push it as the cool new thing all children should be doing.

They're already pushing to replace "pedophile" with "minor attracted person" and are losing thei shit over a film shedding light on the sex trafficking of children... because that is the transgression they're longing for society to tolerate and be forced to celebrate next.

So, fuck off with your "just ignore it."

Nah.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

Also, there is no sexual activity that is evil AND consensual. Fictional characters have no rights, no sentience, and no real existences. It is thus tolerable to do anything to them. And before you come at me with 'but (insert Christian reason here)'- I'm not Christian because I know that Jesus didn't resurrect, nor did he fulfill the Old Testament, and nor am I Jewish because I know the Bible PERIOD isn't historical.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Wow, that hit you too close to home for comfort didn't it?

Now, stop crying that some people think you're fucked in the head and won't celebrate your degeneracy for a second and read his comment carefully...

Done?

Exactly where does he say he wants to force anyone to do or not do X?