TheRPGSite

Finally! A D&D CRPG for Zoophiliacs!

https://twitter.com/vaughandavies97/status/1677361748658069516 (https://twitter.com/vaughandavies97/status/1677361748658069516)

5:33:23 mark

When the early access first released, my friends and I all had a good laugh about how the game comes with a "build your own waifu" feature.

This is legitimately farther than I thought they would go, though. Kind of surprised there's no apparent controversy on the internet around it. If nothing else, I would expect that explicit b*stiality would get you an X-rating, but it isn't even mentioned on the ESRB's website entry for the game. I wonder if the early access cycle is being used to circumvent the ratings in some way.

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 08, 2023, 04:36:30 PM
When the early access first released, my friends and I all had a good laugh about how the game comes with a "build your own waifu" feature.

This is legitimately farther than I thought they would go, though. Kind of surprised there's no apparent controversy on the internet around it. If nothing else, I would expect that explicit b*stiality would get you an X-rating, but it isn't even mentioned on the ESRB's website entry for the game. I wonder if the early access cycle is being used to circumvent the ratings in some way.

Yeah ESRB is seemingly asleep at the wheel. This is definitely the developers deliberately courting controversy in order to try and raise awareness of their shitty game though.

If nothing convinces you that Woke DnD is absolutely not for you, this should....

Baldur's Gate for Furrys is here.....You can even customize your own genitals for your character!

If this is specific to the video game, I think it should be in the "Other Games" forum.

https://www.therpgsite.com/other-games/

Quote from: jhkim on July 08, 2023, 05:24:42 PM
If this is specific to the video game, I think it should be in the "Other Games" forum.

https://www.therpgsite.com/other-games/

Nope!

This is the end result of Woke DnD!

Your attempt to hide the latest Hasbro ugliness in an ignored part of of the forum is noted!

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 08, 2023, 05:29:56 PM
Nope!

This is the end result of Woke DnD!

Your attempt to hide the latest Hasbro ugliness in an ignored part of of the forum is noted!

John K's Jedi mind tricks won't work on Jeff! He was (verbally) killing his kind when being Politically Correct meant something!

(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/image_991736d0.jpeg)

I agree this belongs under videogames.

But....holy shit. This is some fucking degeneracy from a industry that says big boobs are bad.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 08, 2023, 06:35:13 PM
big boobs are bad.

Yeah tell my wife that...also all I saw was some gay elf sex. Wtf, I was happy not knowing this existed.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 08, 2023, 05:08:08 PM
If nothing convinces you that Woke DnD is absolutely not for you, this should....

Baldur's Gate for Furrys is here.....You can even customize your own genitals for your character!

That has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

Quote from: Omega on July 09, 2023, 05:09:03 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 08, 2023, 05:08:08 PM
If nothing convinces you that Woke DnD is absolutely not for you, this should....

Baldur's Gate for Furrys is here.....You can even customize your own genitals for your character!

That has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Furry_(5e_Class)

https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/looking-for-players-groups/171375-furry-dnd

Ah back to the good old days.

QuoteThese early text adventures recognize two-word commands of the form VERB NOUN. The parser only scans the first three letters of each command, so SCREAM BEAR, SCRATCH BEAR, or SCREW BEAR are treated identically.

And what happens if you try and SCREW BEAR?

QuoteBear is so startled he falls off cliff.

Quote from: Omega on July 09, 2023, 05:09:03 AMThat has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

This is the socialist party complaining its being overtaken by communists.
Furries are sexual perverts and thats OK. There are allot of them in the world. How furries differ is they demand validation for their kinks. How will I know somebody is into BDSM? I break into their attic. How do I know somebody is a furry? It will be the first thing they tell you.

So no, I have no sympathy for furries.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 09, 2023, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 09, 2023, 05:09:03 AMThat has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

This is the socialist party complaining its being overtaken by communists.
Furries are sexual perverts and thats OK. There are allot of them in the world. How furries differ is they demand validation for their kinks. How will I know somebody is into BDSM? I break into their attic. How do I know somebody is a furry? It will be the first thing they tell you.

So no, I have no sympathy for furries.

Nor should you.

Furries ruin everything.

Quote from: Omega on July 09, 2023, 05:09:03 AM
That has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

You know you done screwed up when even the furries are trying to distance themselves from you.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 09, 2023, 12:15:13 PM
Furries are sexual perverts and thats OK. There are allot of them in the world. How furries differ is they demand validation for their kinks. How will I know somebody is into BDSM? I break into their attic. How do I know somebody is a furry? It will be the first thing they tell you.

I'm in roughly the same boat. Generally, I'm pretty tolerant of most kinks, even ones I personally find repulsive, as long as they're harmless and exercised in private between consenting adults. A kink becomes a vice is when it becomes the core of someone's identity.

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 09, 2023, 02:45:08 PM
You know you done screwed up when even the furries are trying to distance themselves from you.

(https://en.wikifur.com/w/images/0/0e/Geekchart2.gif)
'Nuff said.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 09, 2023, 07:41:15 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 09, 2023, 02:45:08 PM
You know you done screwed up when even the furries are trying to distance themselves from you.

(https://en.wikifur.com/w/images/0/0e/Geekchart2.gif)
'Nuff said.

(Looks down the Trekkies branch) Disruptor shots fired at Koltar!  :P

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 09, 2023, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 09, 2023, 07:41:15 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 09, 2023, 02:45:08 PM
You know you done screwed up when even the furries are trying to distance themselves from you.

(https://en.wikifur.com/w/images/0/0e/Geekchart2.gif)
'Nuff said.

(Looks down the Trekkies branch) Disruptor shots fired at Koltar!  :P

Qoh! may'! be'nI'pu' wIchov! qeylIS qa'! Qu'vatlh!

Anyway, nice to see at least some people here haven't fallen down the slippery slope. Ask yourself if all the You Tubers and influencers Larian are using to shill the game tried to defend this 10 years ago. Would people have been as apathetic or outright accepting then? If they wouldn't, why? Maybe because animal molestation is wrong? Of course it is that's rhetorical.

The BattleTech community has this figured out.

They praise a game where a literal gay bear fucks a gay undead vampire, combining bestiality and necrophilia, but criticize female characters with blowup doll proportions? Do I understand this right?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 10, 2023, 01:32:23 PM
They praise a game where a literal gay bear fucks a gay undead vampire, combining bestiality and necrophilia, but criticize female characters with blowup doll proportions? Do I understand this right?

They're not happy with any conventional heterosexual attractive attributes, AFAICT. Slightly voluptuous is enough to send them into rage frenzy.

I have a bisexual female player who was telling me how my SJW ex-players were complaining about the pics of hot babe NPCs IMC. She: "I was scared to tell them (the SJWs) - but - I like those pics!"   ;D

To their credit, it does at least appear to be possible to make a character that looks female.

(https://i.postimg.cc/x87XZgZY/dpgko2weh9t51.jpg)

Which is more than I can say for a lot of recent games.

 :o Oh dear! ;D How funny!  ::) And sorta expected.

I think we need to tag these Corporate Bad-Idea Eras to CEOs so their Reputations become suspect.  :D Just like we can call "Fake Disney" the 'Bob Iger Disney Era' we could probably isolate the CEO-era of WotC's self-immolation.  ;) I mean, why not be proud of your brave CEO decisions!

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 08, 2023, 04:36:30 PM
When the early access first released, my friends and I all had a good laugh about how the game comes with a "build your own waifu" feature.

This is legitimately farther than I thought they would go, though. Kind of surprised there's no apparent controversy on the internet around it. If nothing else, I would expect that explicit b*stiality would get you an X-rating, but it isn't even mentioned on the ESRB's website entry for the game. I wonder if the early access cycle is being used to circumvent the ratings in some way.

The Waifu is the mind flayer parasite in your mind.  It is making itself attractive to you to get you to use it more so it can consume you.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 09, 2023, 02:21:47 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 09, 2023, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 09, 2023, 05:09:03 AMThat has nothing to do with furrys.

Zoophiles have been trying to co-opt the furry community for decades.

This is the socialist party complaining its being overtaken by communists.
Furries are sexual perverts and thats OK. There are allot of them in the world. How furries differ is they demand validation for their kinks. How will I know somebody is into BDSM? I break into their attic. How do I know somebody is a furry? It will be the first thing they tell you.

So no, I have no sympathy for furries.

Nor should you.

Furries ruin everything.

Nutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

Quote from: Omega on July 11, 2023, 06:39:11 AMNutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

You're running defense of Furrydom pprreettyyy hard here. Is your favorite Battletech mech-pilot the unicorn with the cigar?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sch9UJKJOtM/hqdefault.jpg)

Finally saw the clip. It was hilarious, and likely a callback to exactly what I mentioned before. So I'm fine with it, and wonder if the problem has more to do with the lack of attractive women and hetero relationships than the bear sex.

WotC is appealing to the furries is what it is.  For 6E they will be putting in anal scent gland swatches on the races for all the wolfkin players.  The problem with that statement, WotC is so far gone you can't say 100% that would not happen.

I want to know if I can create a dude with a big gaping HPV+ cunt.  I need the warts to be present for me to feel the immersion.  Further, I need the bear to be circumsized, they need to put that option in the game.  I also want to have my junk be at least 10 penises because I identify as a penis hydra.

Larian has done some dumb arse content before, but this reeks of WotC putting in requests for deviancy to be placed in the game, not Larian.  The don't assume my gender joke for the cow was one of the glaring stupidities of Original Sin 2, but the rest wasn't that bad.

I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them, especially at low levels since they were not immediately hostile and would turn hostile at random, usually catching your party off guard.

Now it seems the game provides an alternative to combat for dealing with bears...

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on July 11, 2023, 01:26:34 PM
WotC is appealing to the furries is what it is.  For 6E they will be putting in anal scent gland swatches on the races for all the wolfkin players.  The problem with that statement, WotC is so far gone you can't say 100% that would not happen.

I can say they 100% they wouldn't go there... not for any virtuous reason, but simply because the cost of the swatches wouldn't allow enough price inflation of the core product.

Instead they'll just store copies in an outhouse for a few weeks before selling them and tell their freakish customers its been custom scented for them.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them,

Oh My.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them, especially at low levels since they were not immediately hostile and would turn hostile at random, usually catching your party off guard.

Now it seems the game provides an alternative to combat for dealing with bears...

I think the artist who did the fucked up eye look for Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition when he was going to bugger you is the same guy who did the same shit eating grin and fucked up "I'm gonna ream you boy" eyes on the bear are one in the same.  Creepy as fuck.  I wonder if there is a cut scene where mid thrust you can slit the bears throat for XP and bear pelt?  I swear the more shit WotC puts out the more they are making me think Chaotic Evil is a valid game style for cooperative game play now.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 11, 2023, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them,

Oh My.

Well on Taco Tuesday night in Faerun when Bhall pulls out those beads and throws them at you to fight, its a shitty fight.

I never thought I'd see the day when gay sex was so vanilla and boring you'd have to make one of the participants an animal just to make the Christians react.

And honestly, that's all this is. Regular old gay romance options don't make the religious people lose their shit anymore, so now everyone has to try harder to be edgy.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them

Given the content of this thread, this mis-type had me do a double take!  :o ;D

I wonder how long it will take before they resort to making violent tentacle hentai the default standard for sex scenes in video games.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 12, 2023, 04:41:09 PM
I wonder how long it will take before they resort to making violent tentacle hentai the default standard for sex scenes in video games.

Violent tentacle hentai with foxboys, ofc.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 12, 2023, 04:41:09 PM
I wonder how long it will take before they resort to making violent tentacle hentai the default standard for sex scenes in video games.

Given the mind flayer theme, I would have been less surprised to see that. Anyway we've kind of passed that point. I would have thought most people considered depicting a character in flagrante with a real-world animal was considerably more degenerate than depicting one with a made up fantasy creature. Guess I overestimated the general public

The irony is that they probably would have gotten more heat if they had shown a female getting "surprised" by tentacles. Their target audience is so twisted up they'll defend anything as long as they can hold up the "consent" shield. Also, I'm pretty sure that making this a gay scene was a calculated choice. Most people these days are well conditioned to be less critical of sexual practices if its two (or more) men doing it.

I'm not really phased by tentacle sex anymore. It's pure fantasy. What I'm afraid of is the normalization of violent torture porn as "normal" sex, as is the case for current porn. Something like 50% of sexual encounters now involve the man asphyxiating the woman. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem

Another thing about the clip is that it's not meant to be titillating. It's specifically making fun of the characters involved. You're supposed to point and laugh, not approve and endorse.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 12, 2023, 08:30:50 PM
What I'm afraid of is the normalization of violent torture porn as "normal" sex, as is the case for current porn. Something like 50% of sexual encounters now involve the man asphyxiating the woman. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem

That's horrifying. However I can say from experience that this is a far more common kink than most realize, and sometimes asking for consent isn't even required as the woman will tell you outright.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 12, 2023, 09:59:13 PM
Another thing about the clip is that it's not meant to be titillating. It's specifically making fun of the characters involved. You're supposed to point and laugh, not approve and endorse.

A: SJWs are notoroius prudes. They never accept "X is supposed to be a joke" as a reasonable explanation for a behaviour they dislike, ESPECIALLY for sexual content.
B: If this was a "thousand year old" person that looked like a ten year old (in dem anime style) this game would be banned or that scene would be removed. Well primarily if they where a girl. If it where a boy it might be risque and brave (or only a joke we swear).
C: SJWs often parade their fetishes/social desires as "jokes" until they can declare them as what they wanted.
D: Still not a great joke. "Its bestiality! Get it?" is a dull punchline. Same would be for necrophelia or pedophelia or whatever other phelia.

So yeah for all those reasons I press X to doubt.

The terminally humorless don't get to say "it's just a joke, bro."

Whether or not they get "just a joke" depends entirely on the perceived politics of the person making the joke.

Fuck it. Now I want to see Ocelot Kirk and furry Star Trek.

But Paramount is as woketarded as Disney, so I'll just watch old episodes of Pigs in Space.



Glad to see the D&D brand commit to more self-destruction.

Quote from: S'mon on July 12, 2023, 01:58:17 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them

Given the content of this thread, this mis-type had me do a double take!  :o ;D

I came back to see my mistake, and the effect it had , and I decided not to correct it.

The perils of big thumbs and a small phone.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 13, 2023, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: S'mon on July 12, 2023, 01:58:17 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them

Given the content of this thread, this mis-type had me do a double take!  :o ;D

I came back to see my mistake, and the effect it had , and I decided not to correct it.

The perils of big thumbs and a small phone.

Well little did people know of the secret +4 Bhall's Beeads of Buggery in Baldur's Gate II.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 12, 2023, 10:27:17 PM
I press X to doubt.

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 12, 2023, 10:51:58 PM
The terminally humorless don't get to say "it's just a joke, bro."

Quote from: Corolinth on July 12, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Whether or not they get "just a joke" depends entirely on the perceived politics of the person making the joke.

Y'all missing my point, which is it means it's acceptable to mock gays and furries even on 'the left'. Truly cringe is the unifying force that will bring peace to the world.

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 11, 2023, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 11, 2023, 06:39:11 AMNutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

You're running defense of Furrydom pprreettyyy hard here. Is your favorite Battletech mech-pilot the unicorn with the cigar?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sch9UJKJOtM/hqdefault.jpg)

No. Im just fed up people throwing around lies because it suits their agenda. Satanic Panic all over again. Exvept this time we have some sort of made up standing for Jews and Blacks so people can have feel good bigotry while they play their elf games and complain about being persecuted.

Hurry for the RPG community. Welcome to the new Woke.

Quote from: Omega on July 15, 2023, 05:23:33 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 11, 2023, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 11, 2023, 06:39:11 AMNutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

You're running defense of Furrydom pprreettyyy hard here. Is your favorite Battletech mech-pilot the unicorn with the cigar?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sch9UJKJOtM/hqdefault.jpg)

No. Im just fed up people throwing around lies because it suits their agenda. Satanic Panic all over again. Exvept this time we have some sort of made up standing for Jews and Blacks so people can have feel good bigotry while they play their elf games and complain about being persecuted.

Hurry for the RPG community. Welcome to the new Woke.

You both need to step back a second. Furries ruin everything, but they are only a symptomatic result of introducing hypersexualism into any kind of media genre. Take anthropomorphic animals as races, like Steve Gallacci's Albedo or Traveller's Aslan and Vargr, add hypersexualism and you get Furries.

It isn't bigotry, it is an aversion to sexualizing everything whether it should be sexualized or not.

Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

We're in the societal mess we're in BECAUSE we've been ignoring it... presumably hoping the woke perverts would someday be satisfied.

We're now at necro-ursinephilia in this game because the Left by nature must continually transgress the current boundaries of social acceptability. There is no depravity too taboo for them to not want to transgress it if they think they can get away with it.

They accomplished this by first pushing that tolerance of perversion was a virtue while they were weak. Now that they have control they now seek fines and jail time for those who fail to support and pay for inflicting genital mutilation and a lifetime of chemical dependency on Big Pharma on their children while the school push it as the cool new thing all children should be doing.

They're already pushing to replace "pedophile" with "minor attracted person" and are losing thei shit over a film shedding light on the sex trafficking of children... because that is the transgression they're longing for society to tolerate and be forced to celebrate next.

So, fuck off with your "just ignore it."

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

A weeaboo defending the furries?  Pretty sure that gets Bingo on one of the cards...

The fact that sexuality doesn't inherently make a work worse doesn't mean it makes it better, nor does it mean it CAN'T make it worse (which it does in this case).  Nor does it follow that sexual deviancy should be treated like sexuality in works.  So, yeah, furries make everything worse, along with other fetishists (there's no room for weeb tentacle porn, either).  Degeneracy is a flaw, not a feature...

Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun.

As one of those "anime fans" pervs, however, I saw my first Japanese cartoon in third grade and, to this day, I saw ONE movie with strong elements of porn and horror (I even liked it - as the true subtext was the price of war). Even if I wanted to watch another, it would need work to find it - and I don't want in the first place.

I agree with your analysis of Japanese culture, but hypersexualization in manga and anime exists only because drawings inherently offer the possibility to show "things" that would be impossible to do in live action. This is why Anime have this "taint", but it is still a small sliver of the overall production.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
blowup doll proportions

I saw a fascinating piece on sex doll proportions; the proportions of the average purchased sex doll are almost exactly the same as the average American woman in the 1950s. The waist was about 1.5" narrower, the bust & hips were exactly the same within 1". And I suspect that does reflect the average Anime character pretty well. Of course modern American & Western women bear no resemblance to either. But I suspect one reason heterosexual Western boys & men like Anime is that in some respect it actually reflects normality, certainly normal compared to the world they see around them.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AMWe need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

Objectification is a bullshit term.
Why is sexualization in media bad but objectification by murdering/assaulting droves of people OK?
But it is an interesting point about where people draw the line I guess and how arbitrary it is.

Edit: Man its really put me in an interesting state of mind. How on one side are people that argue anything short of putting every character in a burka isn't "respecting women", while on the other are people saying denying sex between a bear and corpse is close-minded and missing the Hoomor. And that they should wear their fursuit in public and be applauded for it.

I will say that arguments about how stylization is evil because this is an assault on women (or whatever) is idiotic.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/pv-target-images/26228d05a567756f8566542196b8b66c244b843347b4e00ff82e6931a722eeb8._UY500_UX667_RI_TTW_.jpg)

Look at those female characters! Those proportions are completely unrealistic! Better fatten them up and take away other gender signifiers as fast as possible!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

On the face of it, in a vacuum, it's a fine statement to make. The problem is this isn't a vacuum.

I don't know where you fall. I do know that there is a significant portion of the population, both conservative and progressive, for whom there is no such thing as expressing sexuality in healthy ways. They pay lip service to the idea of healthy sexuality, but there is no actual expression of sexuality that they think is healthy. Whenever you ask them point blank, they blow smoke up your ass to dodge the question because they know they're unreasonable.

There was a remark made about choking on an earlier page of this thread. I was going to let it go, because I didn't have much to say about it at the time, but in the intervening days I've realized that every woman I've ever been with - regular, ordinary midwestern gals -  has wanted to be choked. Not every time, but sometimes. Once in a while. So I have to question if maybe choking isn't all that wild and crazy after all. Maybe it's kind of normal. Maybe the author of that Guardian article is the one who's crazy.

Quote from: Corolinth on July 17, 2023, 01:14:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

On the face of it, in a vacuum, it's a fine statement to make. The problem is this isn't a vacuum.

I don't know where you fall. I do know that there is a significant portion of the population, both conservative and progressive, for whom there is no such thing as expressing sexuality in healthy ways. They pay lip service to the idea of healthy sexuality, but there is no actual expression of sexuality that they think is healthy. Whenever you ask them point blank, they blow smoke up your ass to dodge the question because they know they're unreasonable.

There was a remark made about choking on an earlier page of this thread. I was going to let it go, because I didn't have much to say about it at the time, but in the intervening days I've realized that every woman I've ever been with - regular, ordinary midwestern gals -  has wanted to be choked. Not every time, but sometimes. Once in a while. So I have to question if maybe choking isn't all that wild and crazy after all. Maybe it's kind of normal. Maybe the author of that Guardian article is the one who's crazy.

As a Christian Puritan that happens to believe you have the God given right to choose to sin, I would love it if people choose not to partake in porn.

Having said that I would love for SOMEONE to explain to me exactly how drawings or pixels on a screen transgress against the human rights of anyone. I mean where there's not a real human being in your screen or on paper.

Furthermore, if someone chooses to get naked or fucked for profit... It violates every moral code I hold but how does it violate the individual's human rights?

Lets take it to RPGs: Me having cultures that practice all sorts of immoral things on my setting violates someone's human rights? If yes please explain exactly how and if not then explain exactly how is it different in RPGs from anime, manga, etc.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 17, 2023, 01:29:54 AM
As a Christian Puritan that happens to believe you have the God given right to choose to sin, I would love it if people choose not to partake in porn.

I have no problems with porn itself. I always found it boring and I watched porn a bit when I started dating - to get... uh... ideas - and that was it. However, what happens in sex between consenting adults involves only them. It is not up to ne to judge them - and if God disagrees they are already in big trouble anyway.

Quote
Having said that I would love for SOMEONE to explain to me exactly how drawings or pixels on a screen transgress against the human rights of anyone. I mean where there's not a real human being in your screen or on paper.

To some, watching fiction involving disturbing porn means that you are already inclined to be a perv. Showing your collection of Van Damme's movies is fine: you are a fan and that's it. No one thinks that you will do the next Sandy Hooks. Showing your collection of anime porn, however, is a good way to find the police out of your door the next day.

OTOH, many psychologists will argue that watching fiction is an healthy valve and that no one should be judged for that - unless that fiction involves real illegal, disturbing acts (like paedopornography).

Anyway, I think that one of the best answers to the question was given by Will Wrigth, the creator of "The Sims", when I interviewed him long ago. One question involved how in The Sims you could have homosexual relationships, sex before marriage, cheating... and yet many Christians played the game and enjoyed it. Wrigth said:

"You can do certain things in the game, or choose not to do them, according to your world view. Without choice your actions have no meaning."

Which is why I find this whole BG3 thingie preposterous. First, I'm not going to have sex as a bear. Second, there are actually many ancient legends around the World about shape shifting lovers who experimented in various ways. Third, "Hey! Let's try the 'I'm a bear, you are a cat thinghie!'" is just juvenile. Fourth, it is the Americans who have this unhealthy obsession with "furries" (*) I can easily see a European looking at bear porn and finding it very funny (and juvenile).

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Quote
Furthermore, if someone chooses to get naked or fucked for profit... It violates every moral code I hold but how does it violate the individual's human rights?

This is why there is a separation between Church and State (and if there isn't there should be). Acts "immoral" to someone can be legal. Once again, it is up to God to pass further judgement. Let's not forget Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

Quote
Lets take it to RPGs: Me having cultures that practice all sorts of immoral things on my setting violates someone's human rights? If yes please explain exactly how and if not then explain exactly how is it different in RPGs from anime, manga, etc.

When The Forge Fundamentalists were all the rage, my answer was always the same: RPGs are like sex. What is good and fun, and what isn't, is up only to those who partake in it. No one has the right to arrive from outside and impose his views.

Regarding your question, once again it is the existence of perversion which gives value to morality in your World. And Freedom of Thought not only isn't a crime but a recognised human right anyway.

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
Fourth, it is the Americans who have this unhealthy obsession with "furries" (*) I can easily see a European looking at bear porn and finding it very funny (and juvenile).

So you're saying Europeans are degenerates who are into beastiality?  Gocha!

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 17, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.

Because it's not about sex.  It's about narcissism.  These deviants define themselves by their deviancy.  And everything has to be about them.  So if they don't see their deviancy in any work or endeavor, they are being "erased" or "silenced," because they can't imagine anything not centered around themselves (and their kinks).  It's a bunch of little children screaming at the top of their lungs, "What about ME!!!!"

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 17, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 17, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.

Because it's not about sex.  It's about narcissism.  These deviants define themselves by their deviancy.  And everything has to be about them.  So if they don't see their deviancy in any work or endeavor, they are being "erased" or "silenced," because they can't imagine anything not centered around themselves (and their kinks).  It's a bunch of little children screaming at the top of their lungs, "What about ME!!!!"

It is still something foreign over here. Maybe there are people who do it dressed as Wily E. Coyote, but if they do it stays in the bedroom. I'll check Wikipedia about furries in Europe. Anyway, when this "fear of furries" was explained to us by our American relatives, the reaction was the kind of

...Www...hat?!...

...from Penny in The Big Bang Theory.

People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

The fact that you think you have fewer mental issues than someone that likes being choked during sex is rather amusing.

I don't play video games at all, so I don't have much basis for comparison. I've heard of perverse and/or violent sexual content in games like Grand Theft Auto, but never played anything like that.

What's the expectation for sexual content in "Mature" rated video games?

In other media, sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters have been around a while in the mainstream with no perceived connection to furries, necrophilia, or zoophilia. Sexy vampires are too numerous to count. For shapeshifters, I think of Cat People or The Howling. The 1942 original of Cat People is much tamer as opposed to the lurid sex scenes of the 1982 remake, but it was always sexual. This continues in more recent media like Twilight and True Blood, which have both (i.e. sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters). I've seen several versions of werewolf sex, but I guess it's OK because both of the partners transformed (?). In a video game with many choices, it seems like a obvious gimmick to throw in, especially as a joke.

Fantasy like being turned on by monster alien babes or panther-shifting Natasha Kinski doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about closer-to-home fantasies like schoolgirl outfits, and "young teen" or "stepsister" as tags.

I'm curious, does anyone know the Furry numbers of the population? As a percentage or whatever? I would not have though they were large enough for corporations to cater to but obviously...

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
I don't play video games at all, so I don't have much basis for comparison. I've heard of perverse and/or violent sexual content in games like Grand Theft Auto, but never played anything like that.

What's the expectation for sexual content in "Mature" rated video games?

I was pretty deep into videogames until around 4-5 years ago (I even used to do a gaming podcast), so my knowledge might be a little out of date, but I was once pretty into this.

It's worth noting that the ratings and content tendencies have a lot variance between different gaming scenes and cultures. For example, the Japanese ratings board is famously more liberal about sexual content, but much more strict on gore. IIRC several of the Mortal Kombat games have actually been banned in Japan. Western authorities are usually the opposite, and the games produced by the two cultures tend to reflect that.

I think for most people the expectation for an M rated game was set by the Witcher and Mass Effect series. The Witcher has toplessness, fade-to-black sex scenes, and occasionally something silly or "exotic" (Geralt and Yennefer having sex on top of a stuffed unicorn probably being the most famous example). Mass effect had even tamer sex scenes, but kind of standardized the idea that RPGs should have both straight and gay romance options. The gore in both is pretty mild, though the subject matter of the violence can be quite mature (genocide, assassination, war crimes etc.).

The irony is that mainstream games are on average tamer than what you can easily see on tv these days. The Witcher games have less nudity and gore than Game of Thrones. Grand Theft Auto earned its reputation by pioneering the idea of sandbox games allowing you to play like a complete psycho, with GTA 3 famously being the first game where you could pick up hooker and then kill her to get your money back. As bad as that sounds, though, what it actually means is about 20 seconds of the car rocking with some PG-13 voiceover, and then the hooker's character model humorously ragdoll-ing and a low res blood pool on the ground. Even the most recent GTA is considerably less graphic and mature than The Wire. 

A few mainstream games have pushed the boundaries, like Age of Conan and Cyberpunk 2077 for nudity, or God of War, the Last of Us and Mortal Kombat for gore, but honestly its nothing out of step with the rest of entertainment.

I'll stress again that this is mainstream games. Independent games sometimes push things a little further, and there's a huge market of porno games, but that's a whole different thing.

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
In other media, sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters have been around a while in the mainstream with no perceived connection to furries, necrophilia, or zoophilia. Sexy vampires are too numerous to count. For shapeshifters, I think of Cat People or The Howling. The 1942 original of Cat People is much tamer as opposed to the lurid sex scenes of the 1982 remake, but it was always sexual. This continues in more recent media like Twilight and True Blood, which have both (i.e. sexy vampires and sexy shapeshifters). I've seen several versions of werewolf sex, but I guess it's OK because both of the partners transformed (?). In a video game with many choices, it seems like a obvious gimmick to throw in, especially as a joke.

I do think that people blowing the "necrophilia" whistle on this are doing so a little disingenuously. Sex is a core element of the vampire story going all the way back to Dracula. This is especially true with the increasingly nebulous definition of "undead" in D&D (I believe you can now canonically be born a vampire), but it's always been understood that a vampire is not just a mobile corpse.

When it comes to stuff like cat people or werewolves, there seems to be a bit of a sliding scale. As I said before, I think the closer the participants get to real animals, the creepier it gets. Give a girl cat ears and no one bats an eye. Give her a tail or whiskers and you lose some people. Give her paws and you lose some more. The "Ok I'mma head out" moment for most viewers seems to be when you give her full body fur and/or a cat head. A lot more people seem to be ok with porn involving orcs, demons, and even eldritch horrors, than are ok with anthropomorphized animals. Personally I think the fantastical elements kind of insulate the mind from thinking about the "real world" consequences of what's being depicted.

Quote from: jhkim on July 17, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
Fantasy like being turned on by monster alien babes or panther-shifting Natasha Kinski doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about closer-to-home fantasies like schoolgirl outfits, and "young teen" or "stepsister" as tags.

Eh, the "schoolgirl" thing has been around forever. In most cases, I think it's just a product of the age most guys are when they start noticing girls (though there are obviously more suspect motivations as well).

The "step" thing, on the other hand, does baffle and concern me. I used to write it off as an unhealthy byproduct of so many people being raised in blended families these days, but it's so transparently just a code-word for actual incest. I saw part of an interview ages ago (I want to say it was on Joe Rogan's show, but don't quote me) where the guy was explaining that the reason why all porn actresses where being classified as either "milf" or "teen" was not actually consumer preference, but those terms being useful for search optimization. Possibly the "step" thing started the same way, but I don't know.

Quote from: Ruprecht on July 17, 2023, 07:38:01 PM
I'm curious, does anyone know the Furry numbers of the population? As a percentage or whatever? I would not have though they were large enough for corporations to cater to but obviously...

We could ask for a show of paws?

The entirety of Western media has destroyed itself chasing 4% of the population, why not salt the Earth to appeal to Furries?

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
I think that one of the best answers to the question was given by Will Wrigth, the creator of "The Sims", when I interviewed him long ago. One question involved how in The Sims you could have homosexual relationships, sex before marriage, cheating... and yet many Christians played the game and enjoyed it. Wrigth said:

"You can do certain things in the game, or choose not to do them, according to your world view. Without choice your actions have no meaning."

Now if only players stopped basing their Sims characters on their IRL friends and family.

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM
"If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine..."

Not necessarily (https://decider.com/2017/06/12/adam-west-kicked-out-of-orgy-while-being-batman/).

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 16, 2023, 08:17:18 AM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

We're in the societal mess we're in BECAUSE we've been ignoring it... presumably hoping the woke perverts would someday be satisfied.

We're now at necro-ursinephilia in this game because the Left by nature must continually transgress the current boundaries of social acceptability. There is no depravity too taboo for them to not want to transgress it if they think they can get away with it.

They accomplished this by first pushing that tolerance of perversion was a virtue while they were weak. Now that they have control they now seek fines and jail time for those who fail to support and pay for inflicting genital mutilation and a lifetime of chemical dependency on Big Pharma on their children while the school push it as the cool new thing all children should be doing.

They're already pushing to replace "pedophile" with "minor attracted person" and are losing thei shit over a film shedding light on the sex trafficking of children... because that is the transgression they're longing for society to tolerate and be forced to celebrate next.

So, fuck off with your "just ignore it."

Nah.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

Also, there is no sexual activity that is evil AND consensual. Fictional characters have no rights, no sentience, and no real existences. It is thus tolerable to do anything to them. And before you come at me with 'but (insert Christian reason here)'- I'm not Christian because I know that Jesus didn't resurrect, nor did he fulfill the Old Testament, and nor am I Jewish because I know the Bible PERIOD isn't historical.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61d19RCFk2L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Wow, that hit you too close to home for comfort didn't it?

Now, stop crying that some people think you're fucked in the head and won't celebrate your degeneracy for a second and read his comment carefully...

Done?

Exactly where does he say he wants to force anyone to do or not do X?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.


[/quote]

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

[/quote]

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:13:30 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Wow, that hit you too close to home for comfort didn't it?

Now, stop crying that some people think you're fucked in the head and won't celebrate your degeneracy for a second and read his comment carefully...

Done?

Exactly where does he say he wants to force anyone to do or not do X?

'Muh-muh civilization is ruined because of people having consensual kinky sex!!!! Waahh!!!!!!!!!'

That's all the post boils down to. I have all the right in the world to mock him for it.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:13:30 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

'NOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST PRACTICE YOUR FETISH CONSENSUALLY!!!!!!! REEEEE YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO WHAT I THINK IS MORAL ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Wow, that hit you too close to home for comfort didn't it?

Now, stop crying that some people think you're fucked in the head and won't celebrate your degeneracy for a second and read his comment carefully...

Done?

Exactly where does he say he wants to force anyone to do or not do X?

'Muh-muh civilization is ruined because of people having consensual kinky sex!!!! Waahh!!!!!!!!!'

That's all the post boils down to. I have all the right in the world to mock him for it.

Did I say you couldn't mock anyone?

Nope, what I asked you is to provide evidence that he wants to prevent people from doing or not doing X, you still haven't provided it.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:24:42 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

I want to debunk the line of thinking that leads to censorship of anime, manga, ttrpgs, novels by conservatives or leftists. These people try to change the real world in their favor (as we have seen many times before from both sides). I want to call out their bullshit and ridicule them in public. I would only become a censor were there really no other option to keep (near) absolute creative freedom. Even then, I would rather kill myself.

I literally said 'ignore it' and one guy responded with 'THIS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION, WE CAN'T IGNORE IT FUCK OFF' with the undertone that 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. Another guy said 'WE MUST CENSOR ART, YES YES YES' again with the undertone 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. They don't want to have it exist, PERIOD. Hence I remind them that the source of their arguments is shallow.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:35:50 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:24:42 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

I want to debunk the line of thinking that leads to censorship of anime, manga, ttrpgs, novels by conservatives or leftists. These people try to change the real world in their favor (as we have seen many times before from both sides). I want to call out their bullshit and ridicule them in public. I would only become a censor were there really no other option to keep (near) absolute creative freedom. Even then, I would rather kill myself.

I literally said 'ignore it' and one guy responded with 'THIS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION, WE CAN'T IGNORE IT FUCK OFF' with the undertone that 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. Another guy said 'WE MUST CENSOR ART, YES YES YES' again with the undertone 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. They don't want to have it exist, PERIOD. Hence I remind them that the source of their arguments is shallow.

You complained the ppl find it immoral, that's wanting to control their thoughts and free speech, you're a worst censor than what BCT could ever be.

As for what YOU read into his post... Well, that's on you, you can't prove that's the intention, you're playing at being proffesor X.

Just wanted to say thanks to Larian Studios. I was on the fence about buying...but I'm saving my money for something else. Appreciate it  ;D

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 19, 2023, 02:44:57 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to Larian Studios. I was on the fence about buying...but I'm saving my money for something else. Appreciate it  ;D

based good sir

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:42:53 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:35:50 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:24:42 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

I want to debunk the line of thinking that leads to censorship of anime, manga, ttrpgs, novels by conservatives or leftists. These people try to change the real world in their favor (as we have seen many times before from both sides). I want to call out their bullshit and ridicule them in public. I would only become a censor were there really no other option to keep (near) absolute creative freedom. Even then, I would rather kill myself.

I literally said 'ignore it' and one guy responded with 'THIS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION, WE CAN'T IGNORE IT FUCK OFF' with the undertone that 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. Another guy said 'WE MUST CENSOR ART, YES YES YES' again with the undertone 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. They don't want to have it exist, PERIOD. Hence I remind them that the source of their arguments is shallow.

You complained the ppl find it immoral, that's wanting to control their thoughts and free speech, you're a worst censor than what BCT could ever be.

As for what YOU read into his post... Well, that's on you, you can't prove that's the intention, you're playing at being proffesor X.

i very frequently read posts in the same tone those two posts were written, they're made by people who want censorship. i want to be wrong but at the same time my experience tells me that I'm not.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:42:53 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:35:50 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:24:42 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

I want to debunk the line of thinking that leads to censorship of anime, manga, ttrpgs, novels by conservatives or leftists. These people try to change the real world in their favor (as we have seen many times before from both sides). I want to call out their bullshit and ridicule them in public. I would only become a censor were there really no other option to keep (near) absolute creative freedom. Even then, I would rather kill myself.

I literally said 'ignore it' and one guy responded with 'THIS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION, WE CAN'T IGNORE IT FUCK OFF' with the undertone that 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. Another guy said 'WE MUST CENSOR ART, YES YES YES' again with the undertone 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. They don't want to have it exist, PERIOD. Hence I remind them that the source of their arguments is shallow.

You complained the ppl find it immoral, that's wanting to control their thoughts and free speech, you're a worst censor than what BCT could ever be.

As for what YOU read into his post... Well, that's on you, you can't prove that's the intention, you're playing at being proffesor X.

i very frequently read posts in the same tone those two posts were written, they're made by people who want censorship. i want to be wrong but at the same time my experience tells me that I'm not.

Nope, you very frequently pretend you can read people's minds. Hint, you can't.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:42:53 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:35:50 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:24:42 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

No. Art is above morality. To think it isn't paves the way for censorship of media. I'm willing to use any means to prevent that, because it is inherently evil.

That's fine and dandy, now... Who defines WHAT is art?

We ALREADY censor media: No Snuff or CP for instance, certain themes aren't fit to be shown on stuff aimed at kids.

I was speaking in reference to media centering around fictional characters- either played by humans in live action, or drawn. REAL LIFE MEDIA performed by REAL LIFE PEOPLE that AREN'T ACTING should be censored if it harms the people involved.

I also should say that drawn art (as long as it doesn't sexualize a real life person without their permission (and children cannot give permission)) should be known. Also, I have no problem with certain television or comic books or novels not being shown to children, I have a problem when it's deemed as inferior or morally dubious due to child-unfriendly content. I have a problem when it is not only limited to certain audiences, but banned outright, like in the Hays Code.

Quote

Good to hear you're a violent extremist. But it's okay, because your violence is for the good cause and only aimed against the bad guys...

I'll only respond with violence when the censors get violent. Otherwise, I'll just attack the basis of their argument.

So, you want to regulate how others think but you think you're the good guy?

I consider lot's of stuff to be Immoral, doesn't mean I want it (all) outright banned, because I think you have the God given right to sin and go to hell.

So here we are, criticizing something, and then you come along to say you want to control what we criticize and why we do it, effectivelly making you into a censor of the worst type.

Nope, you didn't say ANYTHING about violence only after being violently attacked, but sure, you can clarify your position, that's fine.

What isn't fine is your wish to control what others think and say, in the name of protecting free speech of course.

I want to debunk the line of thinking that leads to censorship of anime, manga, ttrpgs, novels by conservatives or leftists. These people try to change the real world in their favor (as we have seen many times before from both sides). I want to call out their bullshit and ridicule them in public. I would only become a censor were there really no other option to keep (near) absolute creative freedom. Even then, I would rather kill myself.

I literally said 'ignore it' and one guy responded with 'THIS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION, WE CAN'T IGNORE IT FUCK OFF' with the undertone that 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. Another guy said 'WE MUST CENSOR ART, YES YES YES' again with the undertone 'WE MUST STOP THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL'. They don't want to have it exist, PERIOD. Hence I remind them that the source of their arguments is shallow.

You complained the ppl find it immoral, that's wanting to control their thoughts and free speech, you're a worst censor than what BCT could ever be.

As for what YOU read into his post... Well, that's on you, you can't prove that's the intention, you're playing at being proffesor X.

i very frequently read posts in the same tone those two posts were written, they're made by people who want censorship. i want to be wrong but at the same time my experience tells me that I'm not.

Nope, you very frequently pretend you can read people's minds. Hint, you can't.

the only way to find out is to ask.

does anyone in here not only want to ignore or cease consuming media they find morally objectionable

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

While the distinction is technically true, I'm pretty sure nobody was confused as to what "choking" meant.

My data indicates the total opposite. All of the women I've interacted with who are into this are functional well-adjusted adult women. They're regular people with regular people jobs. They didn't use drugs, and I can't recall any of them ever drinking particularly heavily. This even tracks with what we see around us. Isn't it something like the average man has three times the upper body strength and twice the lower body strength of the average woman? Why would it be shocking for women to want to be tossed around and manhandled?

This brings us back to the point about individuals who pay lip service to "healthy expressions of sexuality." When the rubber hits the road, it turns out there is no such thing in their mind. Banging on about the normal sexual desires of normal people being some kind of mental illness induced by addiction to violent pornography is what got us into a situation where we have pedophiles teaching sex ed in elementary school. We got so desensitized to nutjobs yelling about porn and the gay agenda that even when sane, rational people raised the alarm, we thought it was more boy who cried wolf nonsense. It wasn't until weirdos with designer pronouns started livestreaming their classrooms on TikTok that we began to believe.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 03:08:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Nope, you very frequently pretend you can read people's minds. Hint, you can't.

the only way to find out is to ask.

does anyone in here not only want to ignore or cease consuming media they find morally objectionable

Maybe you should have started by asking instead of assuming you can read people's minds?

Yes, I don't want to censor anything we're not already censoring besides banning degenerates from showing porn to children in schools.

Quote from: Corolinth on July 19, 2023, 03:20:22 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 17, 2023, 03:37:20 PM
People who like to be strangled, because it's strangulation not choking (choking is when there's a object inside the windpipe), are fucked in the head. If that's considered normal now because of all the rampant violent porn addiction, then civilization is well and truly fucked.

While the distinction is technically true, I'm pretty sure nobody was confused as to what "choking" meant.

My data indicates the total opposite. All of the women I've interacted with who are into this are functional well-adjusted adult women. They're regular people with regular people jobs. They didn't use drugs, and I can't recall any of them ever drinking particularly heavily. This even tracks with what we see around us. Isn't it something like the average man has three times the upper body strength and twice the lower body strength of the average woman? Why would it be shocking for women to want to be tossed around and manhandled?

This brings us back to the point about individuals who pay lip service to "healthy expressions of sexuality." When the rubber hits the road, it turns out there is no such thing in their mind. Banging on about the normal sexual desires of normal people being some kind of mental illness induced by addiction to violent pornography is what got us into a situation where we have pedophiles teaching sex ed in elementary school. We got so desensitized to nutjobs yelling about porn and the gay agenda that even when sane, rational people raised the alarm, we thought it was more boy who cried wolf nonsense. It wasn't until weirdos with designer pronouns started livestreaming their classrooms on TikTok that we began to believe.

i agree with you

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 03:21:06 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 03:08:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Nope, you very frequently pretend you can read people's minds. Hint, you can't.

the only way to find out is to ask.

does anyone in here not only want to ignore or cease consuming media they find morally objectionable

Maybe you should have started by asking instead of assuming you can read people's minds?

Yes, I don't want to censor anything we're not already censoring besides banning degenerates from showing porn to children in schools.

you know what, my mistake, I get very sensitive over the topic of censorship, i feel very strongly about it. I apologize.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 17, 2023, 01:29:54 AM
As a Christian Puritan that happens to believe you have the God given right to choose to sin, I would love it if people choose not to partake in porn.

Having said that I would love for SOMEONE to explain to me exactly how drawings or pixels on a screen transgress against the human rights of anyone. I mean where there's not a real human being in your screen or on paper.

Furthermore, if someone chooses to get naked or fucked for profit... It violates every moral code I hold but how does it violate the individual's human rights?

Lets take it to RPGs: Me having cultures that practice all sorts of immoral things on my setting violates someone's human rights? If yes please explain exactly how and if not then explain exactly how is it different in RPGs from anime, manga, etc.

I'm trying to figure out how and why the bear scene in Baldur's Gate 3 is different from the donkey show scene in Clerks 2. I found the latter to be hysterically funny, while the former is tasteless and crass. I don't think it's the scenes themselves so much as the cultural environment surrounding them.

The Clerks 2 scene is played for laughs, and makes the implicit assumption upfront that it's complete degeneracy. What's the most fucked up thing we can do to send these characters to jail? I'm sure there is an early 20s male edgelord element to the Baldur's Gate 3 scene, but in the current environment it seems to have a sort of tryhard feel. Gay isn't enough to get the religious groups riled up anymore, and rather than taking the culture war win, they had to raise the stakes and escalate.

There's also a second element. For the Clerks 2 scene, the vehicle for the humor was the absurdity of a donkey show in a McDonald's. With Baldur's Gate 3, I'm getting the impression this whole affair is presented as a legitimate romance option. Love is love and gay necrophilia-bestiality is just as legitimate a lifestyle choice as... and no, no it isn't. I'm tired of rainbow unicorn jiz in my entertainment.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 03:31:43 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 03:21:06 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 19, 2023, 03:08:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Nope, you very frequently pretend you can read people's minds. Hint, you can't.

the only way to find out is to ask.

does anyone in here not only want to ignore or cease consuming media they find morally objectionable

Maybe you should have started by asking instead of assuming you can read people's minds?

Yes, I don't want to censor anything we're not already censoring besides banning degenerates from showing porn to children in schools.

you know what, my mistake, I get very sensitive over the topic of censorship, i feel very strongly about it. I apologize.

Wait, what!?

No, no, no. This is the internet, you don't de-escalate, you go nuclear!

Seriously tho, no problem, been there done that myself.

You can customize your genitals & pubic hair but not your face, but you can fuck a bear...

WHO is this game made for? Rethorical question, it's made by degenerates from degenerates for degenerates.

Anyone can consent to anything, but that doesn't make everything safe and sane. But if you wanna win or hand out a Darwin Award, then don't let me stop you.

Most of the NPCs in BG3 are bullying and abusive. They constantly insult and sometimes outright threaten to kill the player (and yet for some reason we're expected to adventure with them). Eventually I had to stop playing because it felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

Definitely do not recommend.

Quote from: Horace on July 21, 2023, 01:19:10 PM
Most of the NPCs in BG3 are bullying and abusive. They constantly insult and sometimes outright threaten to kill the player (and yet for some reason we're expected to adventure with them). Eventually I had to stop playing because it felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

Definitely do not recommend.

You don't understand. As the PC, you have privilege plus power, so only you can be abusive. The NPC are just speaking truth to power, based on their lived experience.

Wow. I'm not remotely interested in playing a game where everyone constantly acts like jerks.

Been having a blast with the game so far. Tons of fun, indepth combat, lots of different choice for how to approach things...

Haven't encountered anything super ultra woke or in my face. Can't wait until it's officially released. Probably going to be game of the year for 2023.

It's nice to have a fun, deep, solid game with great writing, interesting storytelling and fun mechanics again. Last time I had that was Elden Ring in 2022.

Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Saving Haslin in the Goblin camp and he was greatful and happy... Ready to go back and put the Jerk Druids in their place.

There's an Evil Hag in disguise I got to kill and save a pregnant girl to return to her brothers... and I wiped out the Goblins without issue.

I really don't see where the woke complaints or where 'everyone is a jerk' is coming from... Particularly since I mained a Straight White Male Human Lawful Good Paladin and my character was basically beloved by everyone he met.

Sooo you can customize your genitalia, but not your face, because apparently players always end up choosing the same ones anyway. And they hired 'intimacy coordinators' for all the sex scenes.

...

As a degenerate myself I just wish they were honest about it.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Been having a blast with the game so far. Tons of fun, indepth combat, lots of different choice for how to approach things...

Haven't encountered anything super ultra woke or in my face. Can't wait until it's officially released. Probably going to be game of the year for 2023.

It's nice to have a fun, deep, solid game with great writing, interesting storytelling and fun mechanics again. Last time I had that was Elden Ring in 2022.

Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Saving Haslin in the Goblin camp and he was greatful and happy... Ready to go back and put the Jerk Druids in their place.

There's an Evil Hag in disguise I got to kill and save a pregnant girl to return to her brothers... and I wiped out the Goblins without issue.

I really don't see where the woke complaints or where 'everyone is a jerk' is coming from... Particularly since I mained a Straight White Male Human Lawful Good Paladin and my character was basically beloved by everyone he met.

But the fact that they don't offer face customization is a let down. Even the old MMO Neverwinter Online has sliders for your character's nose, mouth, cheeks, etc.

Quote from: Horace on July 21, 2023, 01:19:10 PM
Most of the NPCs in BG3 are bullying and abusive. They constantly insult and sometimes outright threaten to kill the player (and yet for some reason we're expected to adventure with them). Eventually I had to stop playing because it felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

Definitely do not recommend.

Good grief.

I can remember playing BG2 and being endlessly entertained by the back-and-forth scripted interactions with the NPC party members. This sounds like a pathetic attempt to emulate that, but the writers didn't know how to make it work so they just verbally abuse the PC?

(My personal favorite was BG2, where Yoshimo is trying to needle Keldorn a little bit with off-color ditties found in a hymnbook, only for Keldorn to imply he was the one who scribbled it there.)

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 26, 2023, 08:07:29 AM

Quote from: Horace on July 21, 2023, 01:19:10 PM
Most of the NPCs in BG3 are bullying and abusive. They constantly insult and sometimes outright threaten to kill the player (and yet for some reason we're expected to adventure with them). Eventually I had to stop playing because it felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

Definitely do not recommend.

Good grief.

I can remember playing BG2 and being endlessly entertained by the back-and-forth scripted interactions with the NPC party members. This sounds like a pathetic attempt to emulate that, but the writers didn't know how to make it work so they just verbally abuse the PC?

(My personal favorite was BG2, where Yoshimo is trying to needle Keldorn a little bit with off-color ditties found in a hymnbook, only for Keldorn to imply he was the one who scribbled it there.)

This hasn't been my experience.... None of the companions threatened to kill my character, and again, I played a Lawful Good Human Paladin. If you loved the previous Baldur's gates... You'll probably really enjoy this one too.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on July 26, 2023, 04:59:33 AM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Been having a blast with the game so far. Tons of fun, indepth combat, lots of different choice for how to approach things...

Haven't encountered anything super ultra woke or in my face. Can't wait until it's officially released. Probably going to be game of the year for 2023.

It's nice to have a fun, deep, solid game with great writing, interesting storytelling and fun mechanics again. Last time I had that was Elden Ring in 2022.

Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Saving Haslin in the Goblin camp and he was greatful and happy... Ready to go back and put the Jerk Druids in their place.

There's an Evil Hag in disguise I got to kill and save a pregnant girl to return to her brothers... and I wiped out the Goblins without issue.

I really don't see where the woke complaints or where 'everyone is a jerk' is coming from... Particularly since I mained a Straight White Male Human Lawful Good Paladin and my character was basically beloved by everyone he met.

But the fact that they don't offer face customization is a let down. Even the old MMO Neverwinter Online has sliders for your character's nose, mouth, cheeks, etc.

It's not really like a Bethesda RPG, you just got a bunch of pre-set faces and other parts.  It's the same way with how it is in the previous Balduer's gates games and the non MMO Neverwinter games. Character creation and customization is Lots of different pre-made parts to put together.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Lae'zel is probably the biggest jerk. I found her insufferable. Shadowheart too, and Astarion.

As for woke stuff, did you not notice that the whole early game centers around a group of Tiefling "refugees" seeking shelter in a Druid Grove? And how the Archdruidess, who is portrayed as evil and unfeeling, wants to evict the Tieflings? When I tried to side with the Archdruidess in her quest to get rid of the squatters, the game broke and I couldn't progress.

Quote from: Horace on July 26, 2023, 04:34:58 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Lae'zel is probably the biggest jerk. I found her insufferable. Shadowheart too, and Astarion.

As for woke stuff, did you not notice that the whole early game centers around a group of Tiefling "refugees" seeking shelter in a Druid Grove? And how the Archdruidess, who is portrayed as evil and unfeeling, wants to evict the Tieflings? When I tried to side with the Archdruidess in her quest to get rid of the squatters, the game broke and I couldn't progress.

It actually broke rather than give you an "unfinished" message? That's so sloppy and unprofessional.

Quote from: Horace on July 26, 2023, 04:34:58 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

Lae'zel is probably the biggest jerk. I found her insufferable. Shadowheart too, and Astarion.

As for woke stuff, did you not notice that the whole early game centers around a group of Tiefling "refugees" seeking shelter in a Druid Grove? And how the Archdruidess, who is portrayed as evil and unfeeling, wants to evict the Tieflings? When I tried to side with the Archdruidess in her quest to get rid of the squatters, the game broke and I couldn't progress.

I've heard about Lae'zel, but I don't have her in my party since as a Paladin I'm a beat stick... Shadowheart though... Really? That girl is head over heels for my Paladin and ready to swear off her Shar worship to be with him. It's already been said you can change the personalities of your companions over time... We already know Shadowheart will be able to be converted to Selune worship if you want to make her give up the dark side.

As for Astarion... The dude was the sex slave of a Vampire Lord for a century... All he wants is to make sure that NEVER happens to him again... He's morally grey, but again, he's come to like my Paladin a great deal, even if he sometimes disagrees with my goody two-shoeness...

Gale is flat out Neutral Good in alignment. He will approve of every single good act you do...He's awesome and a lot of fun to chat with as well.

As for the Quest breaking... That was a crash, not intentional. You are fully able to side with the Arch Druidess and kick out the Tieflings if you want. You can side with the Goblins and completely destroy the Druid Grove if you want as well. There is no meta narrative out to punish you for not playing the way "Larian" intends.

Have you not seen the articles about how EVERY FUCKING TRIPLE A company out there has been saying "Baldur's Gate 3 shouldn't be held as the new standard. As it's a one off" because there's so much freedom and detail in how you can accomplish things.

Not to defend corpos being lazy, but it is a huge undertaking. The devs made it exponentially more complicated by adding so much detail.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 26, 2023, 07:00:31 PM
Not to defend corpos being lazy, but it is a huge undertaking. The devs made it exponentially more complicated by adding so much detail.

I'm of the mind, that it SHOULD be held as the new standard. Larian themselves is only a Double A studio, and it's produced a game that's more in-depth, more feature complete, more open ended than the vast majority of triple A games out there. The Triple A devs are making excuses... But it's not always their fault either though... The suits at the top are a problem.

Baldur's Gate 3 is going to be awesome.. I played it, I already know it is. I freakin can't wait for the full game. Honestly the entire reason I bought it in early access was because I kept hearing how woke it is, and how unlikable all the companions are. I wanted to see for myself and then kill them (Because you can kill them too and hire Mercenries if you want)... Turns out, it's a tempest in a teapot... Game isn't "woke", and the companions are very Likable.

Beyond the fact the game is just Damn fun.

But beyond all that, it's a FEATURE complete game... No Microtransactions, no day one DLC... very few bugs, polished and ready to play. It's an example of what Games *SHOULD* be...

Larian gets away with it because nobody owns them. They don't have a publisher so they took all the time they wanted, and put in what they wanted for the game... Triple A Devs COULD make games Like Baldur's gate 3, but the current model of game development doesn't allow it at the top. Too much executive meddling, too much trying to squeeze every last dollar from players.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the lack of face sliders, as long as the preset faces are decent. Elden Ring was mentioned before. I can't even tell you how much time I wasted in the character menu of that game, only to wind up with a face almost identical to the preset. It seems like most people only use the sliders to make deformed monstrosities, and you shouldn't be looking at your character's face that much in an isometric RPG, anyway.

Quote from: Horace on July 21, 2023, 01:19:10 PM
Most of the NPCs in BG3 are bullying and abusive. They constantly insult and sometimes outright threaten to kill the player (and yet for some reason we're expected to adventure with them). Eventually I had to stop playing because it felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

I noticed that in the early access stuff I saw for BGIII, and as a general trend in game and TV writing over the last decade or so. I'm not sure whether to chalk it up to writers thinking the later friendship will seem stronger if it's contrasted with early dickishness, or whether it's insecure writers that think being prickly and sarcastic is the height of cool.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 25, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Edit: Haven't encountered anything about "Every NPC being a Jerk" or anything akin to that. My early Access character was a Goody Two Shoes Paladin... Shadowheart fell in love with my character hard... Gale was like 'you're a total bro' and even Astarion liked my choices most of the time.

I wonder if you're having a better time than others precisely because you played a straight-laced Paladin type. I've often found that games like that respond better to players who take the straightforwardly "good" or "evil" paths, and struggle to deal with players who try to play more complicated archetypes.

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 26, 2023, 08:32:33 PM

I wonder if you're having a better time than others precisely because you played a straight-laced Paladin type. I've often found that games like that respond better to players who take the straightforwardly "good" or "evil" paths, and struggle to deal with players who try to play more complicated archetypes.

I played him mostly like a Jedi... people's occasional threats and insults were beneath him, and he was more dedicated to drawing out the better nature of others... And much like Qui-gon Jinn or Obi-wan, not above using Trickery or slumming it to get things done.

What I really liked though, were the numerous Paladin only dialog choices I got throughout the game. Where being a Paladin really mattered, and I could do things like adjudicate disputes, call something off, or smite someone who was being obviously evil.

Honestly, I think the people claiming everything is to woke or all the characters are jerks went into this looking for that specifically... and when every companion didn't immediately fall upon them wanting to worship their character and do everything they said, took it as a personal slight.

The companions have been written as fully realized characters with their own thoughts, plans, motivations and the like... Hell YOU CAN PLAY THEM, if you want. You can play of the companions in the game as the main character, if You don't want to bother making your own. So that goes a whole lot into them having their own personal motivations and reasons for doing things. They very well might be the character you're choosing to play.

Edit: let me add, the game gives you tons of Opportunities to Intimidate people as well. My Paladin was proficient in Intimidation... and I was able to shut down fights and force adversarial characters to back down by letting them know, The Paladin would end up smiting them six ways from Sunday if they continue with their bullshit.

I don't have any fucks to give, so your praise is wasted on me. It doesn't look interesting to me. The 3D models look like plastic because they're trying too hard to be photorealistic. The writing is typical modern garbage. The fantasy genre has been driven into the ground and holds no interest for me. Especially not the nonsensical self-iterative worldbuilding of Forgotten Realms.

You can team up with goblins to destroy the druid grove? You can fuck animals and corpses? Big fucking whoop.

At the end of the day, it's just more interchangeable garbage in the sea of cookie cutter Tolkienesque fantasy titles. If it was a Planescape Spelljammer Eberron game, then I might be inclined to give two shits about it. But I'm way too jaded and dead inside to give a fuck about more uninspired soulless fantasy genre claptrap.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 26, 2023, 11:41:05 PM
I don't have any fucks to give, so your praise is wasted on me. It doesn't look interesting to me. The 3D models look like plastic because they're trying too hard to be photorealistic. The writing is typical modern garbage. The fantasy genre has been driven into the ground and holds no interest for me. Especially not the nonsensical self-iterative worldbuilding of Forgotten Realms.

You can team up with goblins to destroy the druid grove? You can fuck animals and corpses? Big fucking whoop.

At the end of the day, it's just more interchangeable garbage in the sea of cookie cutter Tolkienesque fantasy titles. If it was a Planescape Spelljammer Eberron game, then I might be inclined to give two shits about it. But I'm way too jaded and dead inside to give a fuck about more uninspired soulless fantasy genre claptrap.

Sure Jan.

The good new is Larian hired intimacy coordinators so none of the actors felt uncomfortable........so.....you know.....well done Larian. /s

https://archive.is/bcEcS

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 27, 2023, 02:54:04 PM
The good new is Larian hired intimacy coordinators so none of the actors felt uncomfortable........so.....you know.....well done Larian. /s

https://archive.is/bcEcS

When you have people motion-captured performing fake sex and romance with one another for your videogame, it's probably not a bad idea.

There were romance scenes in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2... But we've come a long way graphically from then, with every character being voiced and the cinematics being motion captured.

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 26, 2023, 08:32:33 PM
Personally, I couldn't care less about the lack of face sliders, as long as the preset faces are decent. Elden Ring was mentioned before. I can't even tell you how much time I wasted in the character menu of that game, only to wind up with a face almost identical to the preset. It seems like most people only use the sliders to make deformed monstrosities, and you shouldn't be looking at your character's face that much in an isometric RPG, anyway.

I think that's even more relevant to genitals, yet here we are.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 27, 2023, 04:44:01 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 27, 2023, 02:54:04 PM
The good new is Larian hired intimacy coordinators so none of the actors felt uncomfortable........so.....you know.....well done Larian. /s

https://archive.is/bcEcS

When you have people motion-captured performing fake sex and romance with one another for your videogame, it's probably not a bad idea.

There were romance scenes in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2... But we've come a long way graphically from then, with every character being voiced and the cinematics being motion captured.

I mean actors have been doing that for 100 years, without the benefit of 'intimacy coordinators,' because they know it's make believe, but sure, got to avoid that PTSD lawsuit.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 26, 2023, 11:41:05 PM
I don't have any fucks to give, so your praise is wasted on me. It doesn't look interesting to me. The 3D models look like plastic because they're trying too hard to be photorealistic. The writing is typical modern garbage. The fantasy genre has been driven into the ground and holds no interest for me. Especially not the nonsensical self-iterative worldbuilding of Forgotten Realms.

You can team up with goblins to destroy the druid grove? You can fuck animals and corpses? Big fucking whoop.

At the end of the day, it's just more interchangeable garbage in the sea of cookie cutter Tolkienesque fantasy titles. If it was a Planescape Spelljammer Eberron game, then I might be inclined to give two shits about it. But I'm way too jaded and dead inside to give a fuck about more uninspired soulless fantasy genre claptrap.

You have already finished it??

* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Because not buying a shitty game and criticizing it is the same as the satanic panic... Dude, where have you been? We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

For someone who loves to claim others are building strawmen, there's a conspicuous amount of straw in your hands. I never said anything about who's destroying whatever hobby, I merely suggested that boycotting the game over a single little thing you disagree with is silly.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion and can spend your money however you please, but if you think it's fine to boycott a game over stupid bear sex, then Yes, STFU when some blue-haired land whale screeches about toxic masculinity in a Conan game.

Lefties currently have the power and privilege in society, and so we are seeing more censureship that favors them, but it wasn't so long ago that Puritanical Christians wanted to ruin everyone's fun. Am I wrong in my assumption that if you can have your way, you'd have the bear scene removed from the game?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:25:02 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Because not buying a shitty game and criticizing it is the same as the satanic panic... Dude, where have you been?

Playing BG3 instead of criticising it and finding that the first four hours have been a pretty cool experience - for sure far from "shitty"?

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

Sorry, but I'm not following you. In D&D you could (and can) summon demons, devils and do other nasty stuff which, in my book, is a tiny bit worse than fucking a bear. What was the answer by sane minds?

"It is a game! It is make-believe, you morons!"

Annnnd... fucking this poor bear isn't?

So, unless I missed something and BG3 forces me to fuck this bear for real, I can only point out the hypocrisy of going up in arms against something much worse than what caused the Great Satan Panic. The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

(*) All of this, of course, for the usual reason: the inability to realise that the rest of the World has their own neurosis - they don't need to import some from the USA. Wokeness is, literally, a virus that hit the English speaking World. Everywhere else "In BG3 you can fuck a bear!" is "So Twitter 12 hours ago!" Everyone has already moved on.

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:59:28 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:25:02 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Because not buying a shitty game and criticizing it is the same as the satanic panic... Dude, where have you been?

Playing BG3 instead of criticising it and finding that the first four hours have been a pretty cool experience - for sure far from "shitty"?

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

Sorry, but I'm not following you. In D&D you could (and can) summon demons, devils and do other nasty stuff which, in my book, is a tiny bit worse than fucking a bear. What was the answer by sane minds?

"It is a game! It is make-believe, you morons!"

Annnnd... fucking this poor bear isn't?

So, unless I missed something and BG3 forces me to fuck this bear for real, I can only point out the hypocrisy of going up in arms against something much worse than what caused the Great Satan Panic. The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

(*) All of this, of course, for the usual reason: the inability to realise that the rest of the World has their own neurosis - they don't need to import some from the USA. Wokeness is, literally, a virus that hit the English speaking World. Everywhere else "In BG3 you can fuck a bear!" is "So Twitter 12 hours ago!" Everyone has already moved on.

So you ARE being disingenuos, good to know so I don't waste my time talking to you about this.

Full frontal nudes, futas, bestiality... It is from degenerates, by degenerates for degenerates.

Does it have hardcore porn scenes too? If not, then what the fuck is full frontal nudity doing there?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 04, 2023, 09:17:29 PM
Does it have hardcore porn scenes too? If not, then what the fuck is full frontal nudity doing there?

People only bought Playboy for the articles.

Meanwhile, Amazon goes in the opposite direction with a full-out censorship binge:

LOL

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 09:04:38 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:59:28 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:25:02 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Because not buying a shitty game and criticizing it is the same as the satanic panic... Dude, where have you been?

Playing BG3 instead of criticising it and finding that the first four hours have been a pretty cool experience - for sure far from "shitty"?

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

Sorry, but I'm not following you. In D&D you could (and can) summon demons, devils and do other nasty stuff which, in my book, is a tiny bit worse than fucking a bear. What was the answer by sane minds?

"It is a game! It is make-believe, you morons!"

Annnnd... fucking this poor bear isn't?

So, unless I missed something and BG3 forces me to fuck this bear for real, I can only point out the hypocrisy of going up in arms against something much worse than what caused the Great Satan Panic. The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

(*) All of this, of course, for the usual reason: the inability to realise that the rest of the World has their own neurosis - they don't need to import some from the USA. Wokeness is, literally, a virus that hit the English speaking World. Everywhere else "In BG3 you can fuck a bear!" is "So Twitter 12 hours ago!" Everyone has already moved on.

So you ARE being disingenuos

Disingenuos (which means "dishonest" only more roboant) how? If anything, I pointed out a hypocritical approach to judging BG3.

Unless I was dishonest because I didn't disclose that I was actually playing the game when talking about it, instead of what many people up in arms are doing (prejudice, hearsay and flat-out hypocrisy over actual experience).

I'm really curious about an explanation.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on August 05, 2023, 07:09:32 AM
LOL

That's true. I even pointed out this when I talked about my experience with the first two hours in the videogame subforum. Here is my quote:

Is the game woke? Well, I only played for a couple of hours. You can create brutish male thieflings with female voices and even choose the genitals (I didn't check) - but you are not forced to do it.

I'm now on my fourth hour but I fear that I'll have to stop. I have BG3 running on a MacBook Pro under Parallels and it is full of graphical glitches - so I'll wait for the official Mac port. However, you can find my first impressions here:

https://www.therpgsite.com/other-games/video-games-what-are-you-playing/msg1260393/#msg1260393

NUDITY! GENITALS! BESTIALITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYH!!!!!!!!111111

...In a game with a 17+ rating? And these things aren't even forced upon the player? IMHO, a lot of people should get a lot of grips. You don't like it? Don't play it. You judge EVERYONE with an idea different from yours who is living his own life? Are you woke??

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 11:39:18 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 09:04:38 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:59:28 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:25:02 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 04, 2023, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2023, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
"OMG! You can intimidate people because your personal god demands it? Reeeeee!"
"OMG! You can evict a group of tiefling squatters from a land they don't belong in? Reeeeee!"

Why not focus on the choices in the game that SUPPORT your worldview? I guess everyone just loves being the victim...

Yeah, we need to STFU and let the likes of Fraudnita Sarkesian change our hobbies without ever raising a concern or criticism...

How about no?

Agreed. D&D's Satanic Panic back again for the win!

Because not buying a shitty game and criticizing it is the same as the satanic panic... Dude, where have you been?

Playing BG3 instead of criticising it and finding that the first four hours have been a pretty cool experience - for sure far from "shitty"?

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

Sorry, but I'm not following you. In D&D you could (and can) summon demons, devils and do other nasty stuff which, in my book, is a tiny bit worse than fucking a bear. What was the answer by sane minds?

"It is a game! It is make-believe, you morons!"

Annnnd... fucking this poor bear isn't?

So, unless I missed something and BG3 forces me to fuck this bear for real, I can only point out the hypocrisy of going up in arms against something much worse than what caused the Great Satan Panic. The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

(*) All of this, of course, for the usual reason: the inability to realise that the rest of the World has their own neurosis - they don't need to import some from the USA. Wokeness is, literally, a virus that hit the English speaking World. Everywhere else "In BG3 you can fuck a bear!" is "So Twitter 12 hours ago!" Everyone has already moved on.

So you ARE being disingenuos

Disingenuos (which means "dishonest" only more roboant) how? If anything, I pointed out a hypocritical approach to judging BG3.

Unless I was dishonest because I didn't disclose that I was actually playing the game when talking about it, instead of what many people up in arms are doing (prejudice, hearsay and flat-out hypocrisy over actual experience).

I'm really curious about an explanation.

Me:

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

You:

Quote
Proceeds to pretend we're not in the middle of a leftwing moral panic and have been for over a decade

Me:

Quote
So you ARE being disingenuous

Also You:

Quote
Proceeds to pretend we're not in the middle of a leftwing moral panic and have been for over a decade and that calling you disingenuous for doing so is out of bounds.

Whatever dude I'm done talking about this with you, BECAUSE you're being disingenuous and trying to gaslight me.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 12:06:20 PM

Me:

Quote
We've been on a moral panic for the last 10 years at least, it's just that it's the left making the claims and censoring shit.

You:

Quote
Proceeds to pretend we're not in the middle of a leftwing moral panic and have been for over a decade

I literally recognised that, yes, we are.

The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

A good way to avoid gaslighting is to actually read what others are saying.

I'm personally all for the inclusion of manly bear fucking. I'll never actually choose that course, because not my monkey, not my circus, not my fetish, but I think bitching about freedom of action in a fucking roleplaying game is like Reckall said, just the right wing version of listening to a purple haired specimen of Terra Balenus Terribilis crow on about the male gaze for 45 minutes because a female character doesn't look like she rocks a Walmart checkout station.

I'll be fucking honest with you. Every time I hear but what about the children my automatic response is fuck the children. They can go play fucking Roblox and Minecraft. BG3 is a Mature rated game. Not E for Everyone. M for Mature. It's an adult game made for adult players who want to be able to do adult things. To kill. To curse. To fuck. It isn't a child friendly game because it was never intended to be one. It's a game from the same vein as Fallout and Fallout 2, two games which if made now and not by a company that is categorically terrible (Fuck you, Todd), it would have Big Gay Al's Big Gay Romance Quest, more whores than a Frank Miller treatment, and Kill-able kids (just like the first two).

Fallout 2 had gay marriage for fucks sake while Dragon Age: Origins (the last dying gasp of Bioware) had outright had animated gay love scenes back in '09.

The idea that this shit is in any way new makes me cry tears of contempt.

Ya'll need to learn fucking perspective. There's a world of difference between "I can fuck a dude in an M-rated RPG if I really want to" and "Trans-pride clothes lines for 6 month olds".

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 12:23:24 PM
I literally recognised that, yes, we are.

The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

A good way to avoid gaslighting is to actually read what others are saying.

A-fuckin'-men.

I hate all forms of Moral Panic and anyone who'd try and instigate one.

You raise a good point. Why are gamers suddenly up in arms now when gay content has been around for a while? Well, it's probably due to the general backlash against the left after all their unreasonable demands. People who wouldn't have cared in the 00s only care now because they now think they're supposed to. It's definitely a panic, but it's grounded in far better reasoning than the delusional Satanic Panic. Instead of "Satan uses rock music to lure teenagers into Hell!" it's now "the left uses fetishistic imagery to lure kids into extreme body modification and disgusting paraphilias."

If furries wanna furry in the privacy of their dingy basements strewn with plastic toys, then that's none of my business. But when they do it in public and demand that I applaud them if I don't want to be burned at the stake, then I find myself wanting to disagree.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 12:27:41 PM
I'm personally all for the inclusion of manly bear fucking. I'll never actually choose that course, because not my monkey, not my circus, not my fetish, but I think bitching about freedom of action in a fucking roleplaying game is like Reckall said, just the right wing version of listening to a purple haired specimen of Terra Balenus Terribilis crow on about the male gaze for 45 minutes because a female character doesn't look like she rocks a Walmart checkout station.

I'll be fucking honest with you. Every time I hear but what about the children my automatic response is fuck the children. They can go play fucking Roblox and Minecraft. BG3 is a Mature rated game. Not E for Everyone. M for Mature. It's an adult game made for adult players who want to be able to do adult things. To kill. To curse. To fuck. It isn't a child friendly game because it was never intended to be one. It's a game from the same vein as Fallout and Fallout 2, two games which if made now and not by a company that is categorically terrible (Fuck you, Todd), it would have Big Gay Al's Big Gay Romance Quest, more whores than a Frank Miller treatment, and Kill-able kids (just like the first two).

Fallout 2 had gay marriage for fucks sake while Dragon Age: Origins (the last dying gasp of Bioware) had outright had animated gay love scenes back in '09.

The idea that this shit is in any way new makes me cry tears of contempt.

Ya'll need to learn fucking perspective. There's a world of difference between "I can fuck a dude in an M-rated RPG if I really want to" and "Trans-pride clothes lines for 6 month olds".

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 12:23:24 PM
I literally recognised that, yes, we are.

The USA in the '80s were right-winged oriented, various Christian churces had more power and following, and the moral panics came from there. Today they come from the left (*). In these occourrences, they are still about about games and make-believe. I see no reason for being bothhered by either.

A good way to avoid gaslighting is to actually read what others are saying.

A-fuckin'-men.

I hate all forms of Moral Panic and anyone who'd try and instigate one.

Now YOU, Reckall and all others who agree with you two can go back and find a quote of me calling for banning the game?

IF you can then I'll gladdly admit I'm promoting a moral panic, if not then are you all willing to oppenly apologize for lying about what I have said?

Heck, I'm not sure you can find a quote by ANYONE in this thread calling for banning the game.

But you won't do either of those because you're all "enlightened centrists" and I'm an "Evul Right Wing Puritan".

When you can't find such calls from me, a self admited Christian Puritan, it should give you a clue that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 01:04:48 PM
You raise a good point. Why are gamers suddenly up in arms now when gay content has been around for a while? Well, it's probably due to the general backlash against the left after all their unreasonable demands. People who wouldn't have cared in the 00s only care now because they now think they're supposed to. It's definitely a panic, but it's grounded in far better reasoning than the delusional Satanic Panic. Instead of "Satan uses rock music to lure teenagers into Hell!" it's now "the left uses fetishistic imagery to lure kids into extreme body modification and disgusting paraphilias."

If furries wanna furry in the privacy of their dingy basements strewn with plastic toys, then that's none of my business. But when they do it in public and demand that I applaud them if I don't want to be burned at the stake, then I find myself wanting to disagree.

I still don't care, I don't even care if they want to put their disgustin paraphilias in a game, I'm pointing it out so others who agree with me about it being disgusting and that also find it goes against their principles to fund such degenerates can avoid doing so.

But for some that's beyond the pale, it's ME calling for banning the game, it's me creating a moral panic. Which means the Satanic Panic was only calling for people not to buy D&D and not burning the books and putting all sorts of false claims about the game.

I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 10:29:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 04, 2023, 09:17:29 PM
Does it have hardcore porn scenes too? If not, then what the fuck is full frontal nudity doing there?

People only bought Playboy for the articles.

Playboy was when beautiful women were still beautiful women. Let's not touch Playboy.

And Stanley Kubrick did some great interviews for Playboy.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
I still don't care, I don't even care if they want to put their disgustin paraphilias in a game, I'm pointing it out so others who agree with me about it being disgusting and that also find it goes against their principles to fund such degenerates can avoid doing so.

But for some that's beyond the pale, it's ME calling for banning the game, it's me creating a moral panic. Which means the Satanic Panic was only calling for people not to buy D&D and not burning the books and putting all sorts of false claims about the game.

I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

It's optional  content, don't like it, don't take that path.

We're not saying you're calling for it to be banned. We're saying you're bitching at nothing for its own sake.

You know, kind of like how SJWs do.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 01:19:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2023, 10:29:10 PM
People only bought Playboy for the articles.

Playboy was when beautiful women were still beautiful women. Let's not touch Playboy.

And Stanley Kubrick did some great interviews for Playboy.

Playboy's interview system is the gold standard back in the day. There legit were people who bought it for the articles and that was hilarious.

Had tons of great tits btw.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 01:04:48 PM
You raise a good point. Why are gamers suddenly up in arms now when gay content has been around for a while? Well, it's probably due to the general backlash against the left after all their unreasonable demands. People who wouldn't have cared in the 00s only care now because they now think they're supposed to. It's definitely a panic, but it's grounded in far better reasoning than the delusional Satanic Panic. Instead of "Satan uses rock music to lure teenagers into Hell!" it's now "the left uses fetishistic imagery to lure kids into extreme body modification and disgusting paraphilias."

Bad comparison. You're comparing the claim and the counter claim.

"Satan uses rock music to lure teenagers into Hell!" compared to "Pornography and women who don't look like man will lure boys in with the male gaze and turn them all into wife beaters and rapists"

While "the left uses fetishistic imagery to lure kids into extreme body modification and disgusting paraphilias" and "the 1980s moral guardian bible bangers were sexist, racist, and extremely anti-science to the point they lived in their own delusional little bubble realities."

Shit is shit and there is no "they had the better excuse".

QuoteIf furries wanna furry in the privacy of their dingy basements strewn with plastic toys, then that's none of my business. But when they do it in public and demand that I applaud them if I don't want to be burned at the stake, then I find myself wanting to disagree.

Hold on there... even the Furries tend to think a lot of those people are deranged.

If you want to bitch about creepy fetishists, the Futa fetishists are the pornographic intersection of Weeb and SJW. *shudders*

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

Just out of curiosity... Have you also called out the degeneracy of being a Warlock Acolyte of Asmodeus exchanging servitude for hellish favours (because you can do that in BG3 - right from the character's creation), or "degeneracy", to you, belongs only to one side of the Aisle?

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 01:26:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
I still don't care, I don't even care if they want to put their disgustin paraphilias in a game, I'm pointing it out so others who agree with me about it being disgusting and that also find it goes against their principles to fund such degenerates can avoid doing so.

But for some that's beyond the pale, it's ME calling for banning the game, it's me creating a moral panic. Which means the Satanic Panic was only calling for people not to buy D&D and not burning the books and putting all sorts of false claims about the game.

I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

It's optional  content, don't like it, don't take that path.

We're not saying you're calling for it to be banned. We're saying you're bitching at nothing for its own sake.

You know, kind of like how SJWs do.

Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 12:27:41 PM

A-fuckin'-men.

I hate all forms of Moral Panic and anyone who'd try and instigate one.

Now as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Lol @ the "in the privacy of their own bedroom" trope.

They always move the goalposts...the problem with LGBTQ degeneracy is that it doesn't just stay in the bedroom...they don't reproduce so they have to recruit...to groom if you will, which is why they are targeting children so hard now and polluting the commons with degeneracy such as Pride.

The reason the slope has slipped this far is precisely because we were too tolerant. We have lost our collective morality and will to enforce it as a society.

Once you start doing a full accounting of all costs and imposed costs the libertarian model falls apart.

I'm with Geeky.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 01:26:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
I still don't care, I don't even care if they want to put their disgustin paraphilias in a game, I'm pointing it out so others who agree with me about it being disgusting and that also find it goes against their principles to fund such degenerates can avoid doing so.

But for some that's beyond the pale, it's ME calling for banning the game, it's me creating a moral panic. Which means the Satanic Panic was only calling for people not to buy D&D and not burning the books and putting all sorts of false claims about the game.

I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

It's optional  content, don't like it, don't take that path.

We're not saying you're calling for it to be banned. We're saying you're bitching at nothing for its own sake.

You know, kind of like how SJWs do.

Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 12:27:41 PM

A-fuckin'-men.

I hate all forms of Moral Panic and anyone who'd try and instigate one.

Now as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

They surely can (I see you once again missed the openly written obvious: no one is forcing you to buy BG3).

However, anti-semitism is a clearly defined view of the World (and even a Jew could argue that without the opportunity to choose there would be no value in refusing anti-semitism).

If something is Xenophobic and the Jews would only denounce anti-semitism, however, I would wonder "Geez... so the Jews are throwing us Italians under the bus?" The correct approach would be denouncing the whole Xenophobic contents.

"Degeneracy" comprises a lot of things - even before considering how different cultures have different ideas about what's degenerate and what isn't (I'll pick a random example: furries aren't in 90% of the World).

And yet here you are: running in circles, screaming, and warning people that you can fuck a bear (*), but omitting that you can be the gleeful servant of a demonic Lord.

You don't think that some people would find the gleeful servant of a demonic lord to be a degenerate? For real?? If so, just say that.

(*) By now, I think that I'll try to fuck that bear out of two things that came at me:

- I'm playing a female human character. Can she do that without being smothered?

and

- Wait... Are we sure that the bear automatically agrees? Having your character getting eaten because you tried to rape a bear would be a scene for the ages...

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 01:26:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
I still don't care, I don't even care if they want to put their disgustin paraphilias in a game, I'm pointing it out so others who agree with me about it being disgusting and that also find it goes against their principles to fund such degenerates can avoid doing so.

But for some that's beyond the pale, it's ME calling for banning the game, it's me creating a moral panic. Which means the Satanic Panic was only calling for people not to buy D&D and not burning the books and putting all sorts of false claims about the game.

I can point EXACTLY at the degeneracy in BG3 and have done so: Bestiality & Futas to cite the few we are shure are there. Yet NO ONE can produce a quote from me (here or elsewhere) calling for banning the book.

It's optional  content, don't like it, don't take that path.

We're not saying you're calling for it to be banned. We're saying you're bitching at nothing for its own sake.

You know, kind of like how SJWs do.

Pretty much.

I also saw Vee's and Arch's videos earlier today, and while the way they handle some of the options stinks of wokeness (e.g., sex is framed as a "body type", everyone gets a dick or vage, etc.) and I would've preferred more customization options, the fact of the matter is what most cRPGs (including earlier BG games) include even less customization than this one. So a lot of the claims about lack of customization in these videos seem to be exaggerated. Although I wonder if the skin color options are locked into the presets as well (they didn't cover that in the videos, so don't know), cuz that would be more limited than most games.

This is all moral panic, except it's the correct type of moral panic, cuz it's anti-woke, so it's OK. And no one's allowed to call it a "moral panic" cuz no one has explicitly called for a ban (...yet), but it is still "a widespread feeling of fear, often an irrational one, that some evil person or thing threatens the values, interests, or well-being of a community or society". Which is to say... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic#:~:text=A%20moral%20panic%20is%20a,of%20a%20community%20or%20society.

Quote from: Iskandyr on August 05, 2023, 01:57:44 PM
Lol @ the "in the privacy of their own bedroom" trope.

They always move the goalposts...the problem with LGBTQ degeneracy

EDIT: Luckily I realised that I was breaking the forum rules by posting about a political problerm in the wrong forum. Sorry about that.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 05, 2023, 02:40:19 PM
Although I wonder if the skin color options are locked into the presets as well (they didn't cover that in the videos, so don't know)

In BG3 you can freely choose the skin color for your character. Some races have "suggestions" but you can override them. Same with eyes and hair.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

As far as I am concerned, you're not shining a light on degeneracy, you're standing proud and tall as a symbol of hypocrisy.

QuoteNow as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Oh boy, this gunna be gud...

QuoteGame exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Who's point of view is it from? Is it from the point of view of nazis? Because if so, it only makes sense.

I'm perfectly fine with that level of hate and bigotry... from the perspective of the badguys.

I mean... points at Wolfenstein

Quote
Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

The difference between CP and Homosexuality is one has a victim, the other doesn't. Children are below the age of consent thus engaging in sexual congress with a child is rape.

Sexual relationships between two men of consenting age is their choice of action as two consenting adults and thus is not a crime against any one individual unless you're doing the mental gymnastics to claim they're raping each other.

CP has a victim. Teh gey does not unless you're going to try and argue society is the victim, in which case you're literally no better than the SJWs because that's the same sort of shit they pander.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 02:58:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

As far as I am concerned, you're not shining a light on degeneracy, you're standing proud and tall as a symbol of hypocrisy.

QuoteNow as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Oh boy, this gunna be gud...

QuoteGame exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Who's point of view is it from? Is it from the point of view of nazis? Because if so, it only makes sense.

I'm perfectly fine with that level of hate and bigotry... from the perspective of the badguys.

I mean... *points at Wolfenstein*

Quote
Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

The difference between CP and Homosexuality is one has a victim, the other doesn't. Children are below the age of consent thus engaging in sexual congress with a child is rape.

Sexual relationships between two men of consenting age is their choice of action as two consenting adults and thus is not a crime against any one individual unless you're doing the mental gymnastics to claim they're raping each other.

CP has a victim. Teh gey does not unless you're going to try and argue society is the victim, in which case you're literally no better than the SJWs because that's the same sort of shit they pander.

Can you cite me going on about "Teh Gays!" tm? No, you can't. So it is YOU comparing those and not me.

Can you cite me saying ANYTHING about BG3 having victims ANYWHERE? No you can't because you pulled that out of your cunty ass too.

We're talking about YOU having the option to play a degenerate, an anti-semite (I didn't mention the nazis either, not the only anti-semites out there) or a fucking kiddie didler you disingenuous twatwaffle. But you know this and you dance around it because you're a lying twatwaffle.

So, you're the ONLY hypocritical "enlightened centrist tm" here (besides Reckall that is), since I don't have the time to waste arguing with the likes of you off to the ignore list you go to. Feel free to join in saying that me calling out your lying, cunty ass is me "lashing out tm" at you.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 03:19:10 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 02:58:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

As far as I am concerned, you're not shining a light on degeneracy, you're standing proud and tall as a symbol of hypocrisy.

QuoteNow as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Oh boy, this gunna be gud...

QuoteGame exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Who's point of view is it from? Is it from the point of view of nazis? Because if so, it only makes sense.

I'm perfectly fine with that level of hate and bigotry... from the perspective of the badguys.

I mean... *points at Wolfenstein*

Quote
Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

The difference between CP and Homosexuality is one has a victim, the other doesn't. Children are below the age of consent thus engaging in sexual congress with a child is rape.

Sexual relationships between two men of consenting age is their choice of action as two consenting adults and thus is not a crime against any one individual unless you're doing the mental gymnastics to claim they're raping each other.

CP has a victim. Teh gey does not unless you're going to try and argue society is the victim, in which case you're literally no better than the SJWs because that's the same sort of shit they pander.

Can you cite me going on about "Teh Gays!" tm? No, you can't. So it is YOU comparing those and not me.

Can you cite me saying ANYTHING about BG3 having victims ANYWHERE? No you can't because you pulled that out of your cunty ass too.

We're talking about YOU having the option to play a degenerate, an anti-semite (I didn't mention the nazis either, not the only anti-semites out there) or a fucking kiddie didler you disingenuous twatwaffle. But you know this and you dance around it because you're a lying twatwaffle.

So, you're the ONLY hypocritical "enlightened centrist tm" here (besides Reckall that is), since I don't have the time to waste arguing with the likes of you off to the ignore list you go to. Feel free to join in saying that me calling out your lying, cunty ass is me "lashing out tm" at you.

And now Geeky knows what means to be the woke in a room of sane people :D

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 03:38:15 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 03:19:10 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 02:58:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

As far as I am concerned, you're not shining a light on degeneracy, you're standing proud and tall as a symbol of hypocrisy.

QuoteNow as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Oh boy, this gunna be gud...

QuoteGame exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Who's point of view is it from? Is it from the point of view of nazis? Because if so, it only makes sense.

I'm perfectly fine with that level of hate and bigotry... from the perspective of the badguys.

I mean... *points at Wolfenstein*

Quote
Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

The difference between CP and Homosexuality is one has a victim, the other doesn't. Children are below the age of consent thus engaging in sexual congress with a child is rape.

Sexual relationships between two men of consenting age is their choice of action as two consenting adults and thus is not a crime against any one individual unless you're doing the mental gymnastics to claim they're raping each other.

CP has a victim. Teh gey does not unless you're going to try and argue society is the victim, in which case you're literally no better than the SJWs because that's the same sort of shit they pander.

Can you cite me going on about "Teh Gays!" tm? No, you can't. So it is YOU comparing those and not me.

Can you cite me saying ANYTHING about BG3 having victims ANYWHERE? No you can't because you pulled that out of your cunty ass too.

We're talking about YOU having the option to play a degenerate, an anti-semite (I didn't mention the nazis either, not the only anti-semites out there) or a fucking kiddie didler you disingenuous twatwaffle. But you know this and you dance around it because you're a lying twatwaffle.

So, you're the ONLY hypocritical "enlightened centrist tm" here (besides Reckall that is), since I don't have the time to waste arguing with the likes of you off to the ignore list you go to. Feel free to join in saying that me calling out your lying, cunty ass is me "lashing out tm" at you.

And now Geeky knows what means to be the woke in a room of sane people :D

The woke are those who need to invent shit about others and to make false equivalences and to put words in other's mouths.

So it describes you, Psyckocunt and Chriscunt perfectly, but nice try. Now you can join the other lying cunts in the ignore list.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 04:03:11 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 03:38:15 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 03:19:10 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 02:58:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Except you're lying about that and, unlike Reckall and YOU I can prove it, while talking about me and those who (like me) are shinning a light in the degeneracy:

As far as I am concerned, you're not shining a light on degeneracy, you're standing proud and tall as a symbol of hypocrisy.

QuoteNow as for your (both you and Reckall's) "It's optional!". Let's postulate a few hypotheticals:

Oh boy, this gunna be gud...

QuoteGame exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) anti-semitic content, is your position that Jews should not shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

Who's point of view is it from? Is it from the point of view of nazis? Because if so, it only makes sense.

I'm perfectly fine with that level of hate and bigotry... from the perspective of the badguys.

I mean... *points at Wolfenstein*

Quote
Game exists and has OPTIONAL (and genuine) CP, is your position that NO ONE should shine a light on it and refuse to buy it?

The difference between CP and Homosexuality is one has a victim, the other doesn't. Children are below the age of consent thus engaging in sexual congress with a child is rape.

Sexual relationships between two men of consenting age is their choice of action as two consenting adults and thus is not a crime against any one individual unless you're doing the mental gymnastics to claim they're raping each other.

CP has a victim. Teh gey does not unless you're going to try and argue society is the victim, in which case you're literally no better than the SJWs because that's the same sort of shit they pander.

Can you cite me going on about "Teh Gays!" tm? No, you can't. So it is YOU comparing those and not me.

Can you cite me saying ANYTHING about BG3 having victims ANYWHERE? No you can't because you pulled that out of your cunty ass too.

We're talking about YOU having the option to play a degenerate, an anti-semite (I didn't mention the nazis either, not the only anti-semites out there) or a fucking kiddie didler you disingenuous twatwaffle. But you know this and you dance around it because you're a lying twatwaffle.

So, you're the ONLY hypocritical "enlightened centrist tm" here (besides Reckall that is), since I don't have the time to waste arguing with the likes of you off to the ignore list you go to. Feel free to join in saying that me calling out your lying, cunty ass is me "lashing out tm" at you.

And now Geeky knows what means to be the woke in a room of sane people :D

The woke are those who need to invent shit about others and to make false equivalences and to put words in other's mouths.

So it describes you, Psyckocunt and Chriscunt perfectly, but nice try. Now you can join the other lying cunts in the ignore list.

This reminds me of the two big questions left in my life:

Why a black actor can play a Elf in The Rings of Power but Ryan Gosling can't be Black Panther?

and

Why Geeky still hasn't denounced a Servant of Asmodeus gleefully doing evil in exchange for hellish favours as a degenerate?

Some things in this life are really cryptic.

Edit: Oh! And Geeky even BLOCKED ME! He is really into this new "woke full immersion" phase of his (their?) life ;D

Had to double check...

...thought I stumbled onto TBP for a moment there.

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 04:27:07 PM
Had to double check...

...thought I stumbled onto TBP for a moment there.

InB4 someone drops in to aggressively point out the differences, while willfully ignoring the parallels.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 03:38:15 PM
And now Geeky knows what means to be the woke in a room of sane people :D

Hahahahahaha!

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
This reminds me of the two big questions left in my life:

Why a black actor can play a Elf in The Rings of Power but Ryan Gosling can't be Black Panther?

I'mma use that...

QuoteEdit: Oh! And Geeky even BLOCKED ME! He is really into this new "woke full immersion" phase of his (their?) life ;D

He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

More like an Ouroboros. It just goes in circles eating itself.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

You don't understand! No one's calling for outright bans (...yet), so there's no parallels. Cuz two things can't be alike if one of them is basically the same thing, only worse.

Quote
This reminds me of the two big questions left in my life:

Why a black actor can play a Elf in The Rings of Power but Ryan Gosling can't be Black Panther?

How much do you know about the history and basis of critical theory? Basically the way it's defined is it only goes one way. It's the smooth-brained normie "centrist" types who think they can "pwn the left" by pointing out the hypocrisy which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the left and projecting onto them a sense of fair play which they do not have and do not care about.

Quote
Why Geeky still hasn't denounced a Servant of Asmodeus gleefully doing evil in exchange for hellish favours as a degenerate?

I can't speak for him, but that would depend on if one views the devil as something real or imaginary. If you really believe in Satan then its probably definitely going to be degenerate. If not, it's just another fictional evil.

Quote from: Iskandyr on August 05, 2023, 06:53:14 PM
If you really believe in Satan then its probably definitely going to be degenerate. If not, it's just another fictional evil.

In the context of a fantasy game, it is literally a fictional evil.

That was the probe of the question: why is one fictional evil not considered degenerate, while another fictional evil is? If a player is going to impose their moral prerogative upon a game, is it not hypocritical to pick and choose which fictional evils they will accept? The game includes killing and theft... would these not be abhorent practices worthy of a boycott?

If the act of buying a game that includes quasi-bestiality (the "bear" is actually a shapeshifted druid) is somehow tacit approval of a degenerate lifestyle, then wouldn't buying a game that allows demon-summoning, theft, and murder also be tacit approval for those things?

The question was never about whether or not someone has the right to boycott a product, it was about whether or not their reasoning for the boycott was consistent.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 05, 2023, 05:23:49 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

More like an Ouroboros. It just goes in circles eating itself.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

You don't understand! No one's calling for outright bans (...yet), so there's no parallels. Cuz two things can't be alike if one of them is basically the same thing, only worse.

And here we have FOUR imbeciles that don't know what cancelling someone means, me not wanting to read your stupid "enlightened centrist tm" drivel isn't me cancelling you.

And yes, this means both VisionStorm and Effete are being added to the ignore list, have fun imagining things and thinking it's reality you lying twats.

At this rate Geeky is going to run out of people to block for the things he's imagined they're saying about him in maybe a week.

This feels like it was triggered by more than the usual discontent.

I know you can't hear me Geeky, but I'm saying some prayers that whatever is going on to cause this will abate.

On topic, I am starting to question the approach to resisting the woke on this stuff, as much of this railing at the heavens isn't directed at anyone it might make a difference with. I mean, I barely play video games as it is and very few people here seem all that interested in modern D&D offshoots, so it's not like complaining here is doing anything but preaching to the choir... which is pretty much virtue signaling adjacent... looking for praise from people who already agree.

Also with further details I still think it's degenerate, but it doesn't feel any more deserving of particular scorn than half or more of everything else released this year. The only reason to really single it out amidst the sea of entertainment dreck is that it's D&D adjacent which means it's associated with the soulless megacorp most here can't stand.

I don't so much think it's Oroboros theory in relation to some right/left extremes turning fanatical as it is just human nature to turn fanatical about passions and more judgmental of dissent the more you wrap your identity up in something.

Which in turn leads to a situation where nuance isn't allowed in the discussion. Where you can't discuss grammar choices without disagreement meaning you're guilty of grooming kids because you don't view he vs. they (particularly when they was the norm for about 500 of the last 650 years and was never entirely stamped out anyway) is a hill to die on versus something you could get much broader support to push back on.

For example, if instead of going after BG3 for optional polymorph porn, an outrage practically designed to draw all the outrage while being so ridiculous that few in the general audience will take it seriously... if instead we focused on "why do the characters in this game even NEED explicit genitalia in the first place?" it might have been able to spark more outrage in the general population, particularly parents already upset about the sexualization of children (yes, I know it's rated MA, but parents barely pay attention and it's rarely enforced).

But instead the protest burned all its energy on "(hur hur) bear-humping."

So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

I haven't seen anyone denigrating the thread.

I have seen a number of people question allocation of limited resources towards given issues (people have only so many fucks to give and perpetual outrage is exhausting)... I'd personally rather rail against the game in question for why it includes genitalia at all; what about the game so desperately calls for their detailed inclusion that it couldn't possibly be made without a "choose your explicit genitals" feature?

I would suggest that this particular outrage the OP started railing about was engineered by the game developer specifically to suck all the oxygen out of that broader controversy that normies might actually give a shit about if it were actually focused on and keep it laser focused on a much harder for normies to take seriously controversy about bear sex.

But no, you can't have that sort of nuance here now; if you aren't sufficiently outraged by what the OP wants to be outraged about you become the enemy outgroup who must be accused of every sin and for whom there is no possibility of forgiveness (even unconditional apologies are insufficient).

VisionStorm is right; toxic purity spiraling isn't exclusive to the Woke... the woke are just the most prominent example of it.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

For starters, I think a little clarification needs to be added first. The "bear" is actually a shapeshifted druid, so there's a bit of nuance to the situation. It's not like the vampire dude cast animal friendship on an actual bear and commanded it to do the nasty. The sex scene is the culmination of several romance options between the vampire and the druid. Turning into a bear for the act is kind of played off as shock humor, and I think if it wasn't used as a marketing ploy, it would not have been such a big deal.

But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible. I believe in truth in advertising, and that such products should contain warnings about their content so customers can make informed decisions about whether or not it is right for them.

Products marketed to kids is a different matter. Overt sexual behavior, lewd images, foul language, and graphic violence are all reasonable restrictions. If parents ignore age ratings, then that isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the parent. And I also think that stores that knowing sell an age-restricted game to a minor should face liability in the same way selling cigarettes or alcohol to minors is.

As for what behavior I would PERSONALLY find degenerate, I don't think that's relevent to the discussion. A fictional setting is just that: fictional. The choices a player makes do not necessarily reflect their own beliefs. What I will say is that I think things should make sense within the context of the game. If there is nudity, why? How does that fit into the scene or the world? In other words, some degree of artistic expression is preferrable for these to be present.

To this point, I think Chris24601 nailed it on the head with regards to the game having overt genitalia. It's not necessary at all. The game could easily have used clever angles without the need to go the full monty. Chris is absolutely right that the buzz around the bear thing may have obfuscated a much more controversial decision by the devs.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

Just so we're clear:

I don't care if it includes that, futas, Ogre (or was it Troll?) sex and full nudity (ALL of which are present in this porn game maskerading as something else). I'm not calling for banning it or any other game like it.

But it is a game from degenerates, by degenerates and for degenerates.

What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

What I find funny is a pseudo Christian who has an issue with some degenerate taking his game mechanics and making something like BG3 and claim compatibility with his shit (all of which anyone can legally do) and wants a way to prevent that from happening joining in trying to bash me.

And the other idiots claiming that I totally want it banned even if they can't produce the evidence to substantiate their claims.

Guess me saying it's FOR DEGENERATES must have hit a nerve with those.

When I saw this thread I thought "Well, this is new..." However, I first tried the, you know, actual game. Yes, you can create a "they/them" character, but you aren't forced to do it. You can create a female trucker but when I went for a (stereotypical) beautiful paladinette I easily created a beautiful woman.

Regarding "genitals" I can be bothered less. However, if there is an option (like in many "better bodies" mods for Skyrim) I always choose "realistic". Some of these mods ask you if you want a "doll" down there or a realistic representation - and somehow if I choose "doll" I feel that part of the illusion of realism goes away. Having said that, I don't think I ever even checked once the final model. In BG3 I clicked on "default" for my body type and moved on.

Generally speaking, my feeling is that BG3 is "inclusive" in the original, positive, sense of the word: everyone is welcome, nothing is forced. I tried to avoid spoilers but here and there I read snippets of comments by players astounded by the enormity of the game's contents. In my four hours (I had to stop for technical reasons) I still have to find something outside what you feel a D&D (the way it was) game should contain.

Was this poor bear a marketing stunt? If so, it worked perfectly, as it enraged the "righteous crowd" thus making a fictional bear in a fictional setting more popular than 90% of the influencers out there ( My reaction: "You can do THAT? Boy, when they were saying that BG3 is BIG they meant business...") Congratulations to all those who ate hook, bait and line - showing their hypocrisy as a side effect.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 01:18:59 AM
Just so we're clear:

I don't care if it includes that, futas, Ogre (or was it Troll?) sex and full nudity (ALL of which are present in this porn game maskerading as something else).

BG3 is not a porn game. It is as pornographic as Mass Effect is - only a bit more extreme (and still you aren't forced down that path). Do you even tried it??

Quote
But it is a game from degenerates, by degenerates and for degenerates.

"I'm not calling for the game to be banned - I'm only insulting EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY about it" (while still having not a single clue about what I'm talking about).

Quote
What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

It is rated M/17+

Quote
What I find funny is a pseudo Christian who has an issue with some degenerate taking his game mechanics and making something like BG3 and claim compatibility with his shit (all of which anyone can legally do) and wants a way to prevent that from happening joining in trying to bash me.

Fair admission: I re-read what you wrote here three times and I still don't understand what you are saying.

Quote
And the other idiots claiming that I totally want it banned even if they can't produce the evidence to substantiate their claims.

But you blocked some of those with dissenting opinions, right? You told so.

Quote
Guess me saying it's FOR DEGENERATES must have hit a nerve with those.

Oh, yeah, ye olde "I was caught accusing people/entities of things I had no clue about, so, when the reality of the situation was shown to me I must HAVE HIT A NERVE. Isn't it? Isn't it?"

Something I can understand. You said some lunatic things about BG3, defended them by behaving like a woke would have done, and blocked those expressing some sane counterpoints. Guess us saying "don't be a woke variant" must have hit a nerve with you.

Edit: BTW, I see that you are obsessed with "degenerates", "degeneration", "degenerating", "iDegen"... This may be a strong hint of projection. What? "You are projecting" is an old and stale counter-argument? Yep. True.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2023, 09:05:45 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 05, 2023, 05:23:49 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

More like an Ouroboros. It just goes in circles eating itself.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

You don't understand! No one's calling for outright bans (...yet), so there's no parallels. Cuz two things can't be alike if one of them is basically the same thing, only worse.

And here we have FOUR imbeciles that don't know what cancelling someone means, me not wanting to read your stupid "enlightened centrist tm" drivel isn't me cancelling you.

And yes, this means both VisionStorm and Effete are being added to the ignore list, have fun imagining things and thinking it's reality you lying twats.

"Blocking someone is not acting like a SJW when I do it! I'm totally not going down a purity spiral and in desperate need to go out and touch grass."

Dude, seriously take a month off the internet. It rots your brain.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

I honestly don't give a shit. "Degeneracy" is largely a tradcon/puritanical concern. I don't live my life preoccupying myself with whether what other people do is "degenerate" or not. What other people do with their lives is none of my business or concern.

I care about victims. Is someone being hurt? Is actual demonstrable damage being done? And no, "I predict that sometime in the future society will fall into ciaos and Western Civ will collapse because someone somewhere did something I didn't like that infringed on no one*," is not demonstrable damage. That's just you speculating about stuff and imposing your values, then pretending your objections have objective merit, and anyone who disagrees or doesn't care enough MUST be "one of THEM" (Gotcha bitch!). Therefore confirming your suspicions that you were right all along! Except you weren't; you're just hallucinating stuff while going down a purity spiral looking for "Degenerates!™".

AS others have pointed out this isn't even an actual bear, but a shapeshifted character engaging activity that comes up all over in real world mythology (shapeshifted animal fucking!). And you don't even have to see it unless you go down that path. It's rated M/17+, so it's not even marketed to children. Does it warrant a mention to serve as a TRIGGER WARNING for overly sensitive (totally not SJW-y) people who may object to that kind of material? I guess. But that's not really what this discussion is about. This is about finding the DEGENERACY!™, "and pointing it ALL out" (-Geeky Sarkeesian).

*And yes, this hyperbolic statement has been implied by people defending this type of discussions on the basis that the DEGENERACY!™ has been out in media for decades (with TSR using "he or she" decades ago--HARRUMPH! I saw!), we just didn't call it out early/hard enough. That's why we're at the Culture War predicament that we're currently at right now!

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

Honestly, as long as it's not shoved down my throat with bad writing, character assassination, lack of choice, terrible plotlines, tried together with a general sneering sense of self-superiority, I'll accept damned near fucking anything in games.

I honestly have more problems with the sex scene (among other things) in Last of Us 2 and Alloy's redesign in Horizon Forbidden West than with the bear fucking in BG3.

One is a unavoidable cut scene where you see a butch woman-creature with the likability of a orc getting railed from behind, published by a studio owned by a company that was simultaneously going after Japanese studios for showing too much thigh in their weeaboo waifu games. That entire scene (and the rest of the game tbh) exists in that special place where gonk, hypocrisy, and virtue signaling meet.

The other was just a simpering pander to people who are never going to actually play the game as to be hailed as heroes on social media...

The bear sex... eh... well... it's a plot decision. Not one I'd make but... well... tell me the spoilers needed to find that path so I can avoid them at all costs please! :D

If it was a plot critical thing, well, lets just say I'd be much less accepting.

TBH, my first reaction to anyone screaming degeneracy is to restrain the urge to punch a motherfucker in the throat. Listening to moral guardians (both right and left) preach about degeneracy is like listening to people trying to argue in favor of gun control. Same rhetoric, same tactics.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 06, 2023, 12:14:08 AM
VisionStorm is right; toxic purity spiraling isn't exclusive to the Woke... the woke are just the most prominent example of it.

Oh not even, the American religious right has been burning that torch for literal centuries now. Last big flair-up was in the 1980s with the whole Moral Majority bullshit.

Problem is the SJWs are the loudest monkeys in the pen this day and age... and Geeky is a self-declared "Christian Puritan"... don't need to be a rocket scientist to see where this is going.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM
When I saw this thread I thought "Well, this is new..." However, I first tried the, you know, actual game. Yes, you can create a "they/them" character, but you aren't forced to do it. You can create a female trucker but when I went for a (stereotypical) beautiful paladinette I easily created a beautiful woman.

Truly a man of taste.

QuoteRegarding "genitals" I can be bothered less. However, if there is an option (like in many "better bodies" mods for Skyrim) I always choose "realistic". Some of these mods ask you if you want a "doll" down there or a realistic representation - and somehow if I choose "doll" I feel that part of the illusion of realism goes away. Having said that, I don't think I ever even checked once the final model. In BG3 I clicked on "default" for my body type and moved on.

Did people make this much noise when you could do the exact fucking same in CP2077? Just wondering.

QuoteGenerally speaking, my feeling is that BG3 is "inclusive" in the original, positive, sense of the word: everyone is welcome, nothing is forced. I tried to avoid spoilers but here and there I read snippets of comments by players astounded by the enormity of the game's contents. In my four hours (I had to stop for technical reasons) I still have to find something outside what you feel a D&D (the way it was) game should contain.

There is a reason that other game devs are freaking out at the prospect of actually being held to... standards...

QuoteWas this poor bear a marketing stunt? If so, it worked perfectly, as it enraged the "righteous crowd" thus making a fictional bear in a fictional setting more popular than 90% of the influencers out there ( My reaction: "You can do THAT? Boy, when they were saying that BG3 is BIG they meant business...") Congratulations to all those who ate hook, bait and line - showing their hypocrisy as a side effect.

Was thinking the same thing. By enraging 5% of the population, most of whom will probably never actually play the game, they attract the attention of the other 95%.

Quote
BG3 is not a porn game. It is as pornographic as Mass Effect is - only a bit more extreme (and still you aren't forced down that path). Do you even tried it??

He's clearly never actually played a porn game.

BG3 is not a porn game. It's a mature game with sexual content, but it's not a porn game. It has a couple R-rated cut scenes.

Listening to him bitch is like listening to some 1980s church lady (or 2010s land-whale) scream and crow about how movies with titties are going to turn all the youth into rapists.

Quote
"I'm not calling for the game to be banned - I'm only insulting EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY about it" (while still having not a single clue about what I'm talking about).

That tends to be how these things go.

Quote
It is rated M/17+

I pointed that out like last page, still didn't grock.

Quote
Oh, yeah, ye olde "I was caught accusing people/entities of things I had no clue about, so, when the reality of the situation was shown to me I must HAVE HIT A NERVE. Isn't it? Isn't it?"

The one thing hypocrites hate most is being called out on being hypocrites.

QuoteSomething I can understand. You said some lunatic things about BG3, defended them by behaving like a woke would have done, and blocked those expressing some sane counterpoints. Guess us saying "don't be a woke variant" must have hit a nerve with you.

Again, this attitude predates the current crop of wokelings by generations.

But yes, the christian moral guardian type is basically just a pallet swap SJW with all the seething horseshit that implies.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 08:22:43 AM
I care about victims. Is someone being hurt? Is actual demonstrable damage being done? And no, "I predict that sometime in the future society will fall into ciaos and Western Civ will collapse because someone somewhere did something I didn't like that infringed on no one*," is not demonstrable damage. That's just you speculating about stuff and imposing your values, then pretending your objections have objective merit, and anyone who disagrees or doesn't care enough MUST be "one of THEM" (Gotcha bitch!). Therefore confirming your suspicions that you were right all along! Except you weren't; you're just hallucinating stuff while going down a purity spiral looking for "Degenerates!™".

This is the problem with all forms of social guardians. They believe in the concept of social crimes. Crimes where no one individual is a victim, but society itself is.

It's the reason for shit like sodomy laws, anti-miscegenation laws, pornography and prostitution bans, the war on drugs, prohibition, and book bans.

QuoteAS others have pointed out this isn't even an actual bear, but a shapeshifted character engaging activity that comes up all over in real world mythology (shapeshifted animal fucking!). And you don't even have to see it unless you go down that path. It's rated M/17+, so it's not even marketed to children. Does it warrant a mention to serve as a TRIGGER WARNING for overly sensitive (totally not SJW-y) people who may object to that kind of material? I guess. But that's not really what this discussion is about. This is about finding the DEGENERACY!™, "and pointing it ALL out" (-Geeky Sarkeesian).

*And yes, this hyperbolic statement has been implied by people defending this type of discussions on the basis that the DEGENERACY!™ has been out in media for decades (with TSR using "he or she" decades ago--HARRUMPH! I saw!), we just didn't call it out early/hard enough. That's why we're at the Culture War predicament that we're currently at right now!

Honestly, this entire thread stinks of the 1980s IMHO, and in all the worst ways.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 06, 2023, 12:14:08 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

I haven't seen anyone denigrating the thread.

I have seen a number of people question allocation of limited resources towards given issues (people have only so many fucks to give and perpetual outrage is exhausting)... I'd personally rather rail against the game in question for why it includes genitalia at all; what about the game so desperately calls for their detailed inclusion that it couldn't possibly be made without a "choose your explicit genitals" feature?

I would suggest that this particular outrage the OP started railing about was engineered by the game developer specifically to suck all the oxygen out of that broader controversy that normies might actually give a shit about if it were actually focused on and keep it laser focused on a much harder for normies to take seriously controversy about bear sex.

But no, you can't have that sort of nuance here now; if you aren't sufficiently outraged by what the OP wants to be outraged about you become the enemy outgroup who must be accused of every sin and for whom there is no possibility of forgiveness (even unconditional apologies are insufficient).

VisionStorm is right; toxic purity spiraling isn't exclusive to the Woke... the woke are just the most prominent example of it.

Standards are not a "purity spiral."  That's would only be true if the standards change (which is why "woke" devolves into purity spirals; because the left has no standards, only tactics in its pursuit of power).  Thank you for identifying where you stand...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 10:23:02 AM
Thank you for identifying where you stand...

No problem.

For clarity... I stand on the position that it would be more productive to go after the game for why it felt the need to include ANY genetalia (and would posit it adds pretty much zip to the actual story and therefore is only present to coarsen society) vs. burning energy on the smaller and more easily dismissed ("it's a joke") subset that is bear sex (which frankly seems to have worked perfectly for the developers in getting all the perpetual outrage crowd to ignore the broader issues by being the shiny red dot for you to pursue).

And thank you for identifying yourself as a moral guardian so myopic in focus that you devote all your attention to a cracked window while berating people for pointing out that there's still a burglar inside the house.

Strong "The Dwarfs are for the Dwarfs!" energy in this thread ...

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible.

So there is nothing beyond the pale for the game's protagonist (which you are) to do?  Rape?  Genocide?  Child molestation?  That's pretty extreme.

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
As for what behavior I would PERSONALLY find degenerate, I don't think that's relevent to the discussion.

Actually, it is.  What principles you hold is the crux of the question.  If you have no principles, no boundaries, no limits, then you are just like the woke.  There is no "degenerate" in your world.  Which means there is no way for someone with principles, boundaries, limits to coexist with you.  Because, while you may demand they respect your lack of limits, you'll never respect their principles/limits in return.  Which is exactly what is being shown in this thread.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 08:22:43 AM
I honestly don't give a shit. "Degeneracy" is largely a tradcon/puritanical concern. I don't live my life preoccupying myself with whether what other people do is "degenerate" or not. What other people do with their lives is none of my business or concern.

...

*And yes, this hyperbolic statement has been implied by people defending this type of discussions on the basis that the DEGENERACY!™ has been out in media for decades (with TSR using "he or she" decades ago--HARRUMPH! I saw!), we just didn't call it out early/hard enough. That's why we're at the Culture War predicament that we're currently at right now!

Well, at least you recognize that you are part of the problem.  You might dismiss the argument that we are here because we ignored the creeping degeneracy in the past, but dismissing is not defeating.  How did we get to this point, if not by slow incremental steps, with people like you ignoring what was happening (in society and in your hobbies)?  I'm genuinely curious as to how you think it happened.  So "Don't ask, don't tell" didn't become "gay love is the same as hetero love" and then "all love is love" and then "MAPs are real people who can't help it"?  That's just coincidence?  And video games and RPGs haven't been used to push and normalize these messages?

The left isn't the only part of the political spectrum that has become self-centered.  And "who cares, as long as it doesn't affect me" is the battle-cry of the self-centered...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 06, 2023, 10:46:11 AM
And thank you for identifying yourself as a moral guardian so myopic in focus that you devote all your attention to a cracked window while berating people for pointing out that there's still a burglar inside the house.

Broken Window Theory says "Hello!"...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:15:24 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible.

So there is nothing beyond the pale for the game's protagonist (which you are) to do?  Rape?  Genocide?  Child molestation?  That's pretty extreme.

I'd say it depends on the genre. If it's professing to be an RPG then one would expect the ability to choose between doing what is right and what is wrong... the degree of wrong tolerable I would actually argue is proportional to the degree of "reality ensues" associated with it.

If the game engine turned many of the normally friendly guard mobs hostile and only allowed you access to black markets because you can't show your face and normal vendors won't sell to you after such crimes (or say starts sending bounty hunters and assassins at you at ever increasing intervals) then I'm all for allowing the evil options to be included because then your choice matters.

One of things I liked when playing Elder Scrolls Online was that it actually had such a system in place where being spotted picking locks, breaking and entering, picking pockets or assassinating people would flag you as a criminal. As a criminal you would be attacked on sight by guards (meaning you had to use various secret entrances to enter all the walled towns and cities and hide from guards patrolling the cities... which made buying from open markets exceptionally risky) and had to launder stolen goods through black market fences (who took a cut).

I had no problem with those crimes being options in the game for players precisely because there were real consequences for it.

One can instruct in morals both by positive example and by cautionary tale.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 06, 2023, 11:59:10 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:15:24 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible.

So there is nothing beyond the pale for the game's protagonist (which you are) to do?  Rape?  Genocide?  Child molestation?  That's pretty extreme.

I'd say it depends on the genre. If it's professing to be an RPG then one would expect the ability to choose between doing what is right and what is wrong... the degree of wrong tolerable I would actually argue is proportional to the degree of "reality ensues" associated with it.

If the game engine turned many of the normally friendly guard mobs hostile and only allowed you access to black markets because you can't show your face and normal vendors won't sell to you after such crimes (or say starts sending bounty hunters and assassins at you at ever increasing intervals) then I'm all for allowing the evil options to be included because then your choice matters.

One of things I liked when playing Elder Scrolls Online was that it actually had such a system in place where being spotted picking locks, breaking and entering, picking pockets or assassinating people would flag you as a criminal. As a criminal you would be attacked on sight by guards (meaning you had to use various secret entrances to enter all the walled towns and cities and hide from guards patrolling the cities... which made buying from open markets exceptionally risky) and had to launder stolen goods through black market fences (who took a cut).

I had no problem with those crimes being options in the game for players precisely because there were real consequences for it.

One can instruct in morals both by positive example and by cautionary tale.

That's a reasonable perspective.  Do you suffer any negative consequences in BG3 for having sex with a bear?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 12:01:19 PM
That's a reasonable perspective.  Do you suffer any negative consequences in BG3 for having sex with a bear?

If you don't wake up the next day with Bear-chlamydia, Bear-gonorrhea, and Bear-herpes, then the developers have failed.


EDIT: Apparently this was my 69th post...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:24:07 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 08:22:43 AM
I honestly don't give a shit. "Degeneracy" is largely a tradcon/puritanical concern. I don't live my life preoccupying myself with whether what other people do is "degenerate" or not. What other people do with their lives is none of my business or concern.

...

*And yes, this hyperbolic statement has been implied by people defending this type of discussions on the basis that the DEGENERACY!™ has been out in media for decades (with TSR using "he or she" decades ago--HARRUMPH! I saw!), we just didn't call it out early/hard enough. That's why we're at the Culture War predicament that we're currently at right now!

Well, at least you recognize that you are part of the problem.  You might dismiss the argument that we are here because we ignored the creeping degeneracy in the past, but dismissing is not defeating.  How did we get to this point, if not by slow incremental steps, with people like you ignoring what was happening (in society and in your hobbies)?  I'm genuinely curious as to how you think it happened.  So "Don't ask, don't tell" didn't become "gay love is the same as hetero love" and then "all love is love" and then "MAPs are real people who can't help it"?  That's just coincidence?  And video games and RPGs haven't been used to push and normalize these messages?

The left isn't the only part of the political spectrum that has become self-centered.  And "who cares, as long as it doesn't affect me" is the battle-cry of the self-centered...

You have yet to demonstrate the presence of a problem, only assert the existence of one. And presumed the conscription of everyone into the fight against your asserted problem...or they must be part of the "problem" (totally not circular thinking).

And no, correlations do not imply causation. An ostracized group in society demanding equal rights decades ago, does not mean that superficially similar groups claiming to speak on their behalf today are part of the same overarching agenda working on some elaborate long con decades in the making. There's a bunch of dots that you're missing before you arrive at that hasty generalization, such as the advent of social media, the introduction of critical theory and intersectionality into the wider unsuspecting public, gamification of social networks, algorithmic manipulation of information, the fact that not everyone in the so-called "LGBTQ+" community (which isn't even a real community, but an amalgamation of groups shoehorned together for political purposes) even agrees with this stuff, etc.

Or do you also think that black people speaking out against Jim Crow decades has a direct causal link to BLM rioting in the streets today. Could it possibly be that these people have been manipulated by the media, activists, politicians and shadowy orgs through the use of censorship, disinformation and algorithms in gamified social networks*? Nah, gotta be them n****rs getting uppity since the 60s and not enough people putting them in their place. Cuz I mean, we used to have segregation and now we have angry black people trying to tear everything down. Obviously the two must be causally related, because black people.

*Social media uses gambling methods (https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/social-media-copies-gambling-methods-create-psychological-cravings) and has been proven to be capable of mental manipulation (https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1320040111).

Quote from: Horace on August 06, 2023, 12:39:47 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 12:01:19 PM
That's a reasonable perspective.  Do you suffer any negative consequences in BG3 for having sex with a bear?

If you don't wake up the next day with Bear-chlamydia, Bear-gonorrhea, and Bear-herpes, then the developers have failed.


EDIT: Apparently this was my 69th post...

Proof that you approve of simultaneous oral sex with a bear and are therefore part of the problem!

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 12:01:19 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 06, 2023, 11:59:10 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:15:24 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible.

So there is nothing beyond the pale for the game's protagonist (which you are) to do?  Rape?  Genocide?  Child molestation?  That's pretty extreme.

I'd say it depends on the genre. If it's professing to be an RPG then one would expect the ability to choose between doing what is right and what is wrong... the degree of wrong tolerable I would actually argue is proportional to the degree of "reality ensues" associated with it.

If the game engine turned many of the normally friendly guard mobs hostile and only allowed you access to black markets because you can't show your face and normal vendors won't sell to you after such crimes (or say starts sending bounty hunters and assassins at you at ever increasing intervals) then I'm all for allowing the evil options to be included because then your choice matters.

One of things I liked when playing Elder Scrolls Online was that it actually had such a system in place where being spotted picking locks, breaking and entering, picking pockets or assassinating people would flag you as a criminal. As a criminal you would be attacked on sight by guards (meaning you had to use various secret entrances to enter all the walled towns and cities and hide from guards patrolling the cities... which made buying from open markets exceptionally risky) and had to launder stolen goods through black market fences (who took a cut).

I had no problem with those crimes being options in the game for players precisely because there were real consequences for it.

One can instruct in morals both by positive example and by cautionary tale.

That's a reasonable perspective.  Do you suffer any negative consequences in BG3 for having sex with a bear?

No clue. I had no plans to buy BG3 regardless of content. My interest in the topic is entirely academic.

I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

I don't believe in censorship because it can and will be used against you when the tables inevitably turn. The best we can do right now is use age verification to protect kids, prosecute rapists, and ignore content we find revolting.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

I don't believe in censorship because it can and will be used against you when the tables inevitably turn. The best we can do right now is use age verification to protect kids, prosecute rapists, and ignore content we find revolting.

Who is asking for censorship?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 02:21:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

I don't believe in censorship because it can and will be used against you when the tables inevitably turn. The best we can do right now is use age verification to protect kids, prosecute rapists, and ignore content we find revolting.

Who is asking for censorship?

I'm sure there are SJWs asking for the boobs to be censored because they're too big or something.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:15:24 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible.

So there is nothing beyond the pale for the game's protagonist (which you are) to do?  Rape?  Genocide?  Child molestation?  That's pretty extreme.

Now you're moving the goalposts.
You initial question asked: "...if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include)", but you frame my response as if I was talking about things the protagonist can do. That's a pretty slimy tactic, if it was done intentionally. Besides, I already addressed this question. I said it should, preferrably, make sense within the context of the game. Is the game programmed so the character can just grab any random NPC and rape it? If so, why is that a part of the game? There was a game called Manhunt that let you play as a serial killer. Is was primarily a stealth game, in which you needed to kill people in order to progress passed areas. It raised the hackles of so many snowflakes, who called for the game to be banned. Yet games like Tenchu, where you played as a ninja assassin killing people to progress passed areas had existed for years by this time. So was it really the killing that was the issue, or the stigma of the premise? Murderous ninja: Good. Murderous psycho: Bad.

Now, an argument can be made that the game was glorifying mental illness... but glorifying mental illness is seen as a virtue these days, so I'm not sure which side of the paradigm is right. Perhaps the best solution is just throw everything into the aether and let individuals decide what they like.

Quote

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 12:44:58 AM
As for what behavior I would PERSONALLY find degenerate, I don't think that's relevent to the discussion.

Actually, it is.  What principles you hold is the crux of the question.  If you have no principles, no boundaries, no limits, then you are just like the woke.  There is no "degenerate" in your world.  Which means there is no way for someone with principles, boundaries, limits to coexist with you.  Because, while you may demand they respect your lack of limits, you'll never respect their principles/limits in return.  Which is exactly what is being shown in this thread.

Another disingenous argument. My response was quite clearly saying that my PERSONAL morality is irrelevent to the discussion of what limits should be placed on a game. Yet you interpret that as me saying I have no personal morals. Shaking my head.

You play tabletop games, right? Have any of your characters ever killed another person? I guess that makes YOU a murderer then.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 10:23:02 AM
Standards are not a "purity spiral."  That's would only be true if the standards change (which is why "woke" devolves into purity spirals; because the left has no standards, only tactics in its pursuit of power).  Thank you for identifying where you stand...

Like I said, same methodology as gun control. Insidious creeping standards.

Being a power hungry cunt isn't limited to the left. I once again point out the long tradition of religiously driven moral busy-bodies in the US fucking up everything they touch.

Hell, the argument you just said, replace "left" with "right" and you have something typical SJW.

Here's something you should put to memory. If you can change one fucking word and your argument becomes the argument of your lunatic enemies... it might be time for some self-reflection.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 12:56:52 PM
You have yet to demonstrate the presence of a problem, only assert the existence of one. And presumed the conscription of everyone into the fight against your asserted problem...or they must be part of the "problem" (totally not circular thinking).

You know, you just basically described SJW tactics in a complete nutshell. Funny how that works. ;)

QuoteAnd no, correlations do not imply causation. An ostracized group in society demanding equal rights decades ago, does not mean that superficially similar groups claiming to speak on their behalf today are part of the same overarching agenda working on some elaborate long con decades in the making. There's a bunch of dots that you're missing before you arrive at that hasty generalization, such as the advent of social media, the introduction of critical theory and intersectionality into the wider unsuspecting public, gamification of social networks, algorithmic manipulation of information, the fact that not everyone in the so-called "LGBTQ+" community (which isn't even a real community, but an amalgamation of groups shoehorned together for political purposes) even agrees with this stuff, etc.

Or do you also think that black people speaking out against Jim Crow decades has a direct causal link to BLM rioting in the streets today. Could it possibly be that these people have been manipulated by the media, activists, politicians and shadowy orgs through the use of censorship, disinformation and algorithms in gamified social networks*? Nah, gotta be them n****rs getting uppity since the 60s and not enough people putting them in their place. Cuz I mean, we used to have segregation and now we have angry black people trying to tear everything down. Obviously the two must be causally related, because black people.

Ooof. Gonna need some cream for that burn.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

I don't believe in censorship because it can and will be used against you when the tables inevitably turn. The best we can do right now is use age verification to protect kids, prosecute rapists, and ignore content we find revolting.

Truth.

I'm not a video game guy, so while my attitude is largely just to point and go LOL...

But while Geeky may get hot under the collar, and mouth off occasionally.

I do give him props for still having an actual gag reflex, and disgust threshold.

Quote from: THE SAME ARGUMENT - EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
...

This right here is why Leftist SJW/LGBTQP entryism had gone virtually unopposed for decades.

So long as people feel that they can "ignore the icky", they let it slide because they otherwise get what they want from the new hotness.

Nevermind that we can demonstrably see that over time the dial on "the icky" only ever gets slowly turned up. Never down...

As one can see from posts in this thread; the entryism in video games clearly goes back at least to the 90's.

In hindsight, it's obvious the desire to do the same for RPG's, especially D&D, goes back even further, and they finally got control when Wotzi bought out TSR.

Thus the slow shift by entryists in their desired direction will continue because enough people will love themselves the new hotness, and you can't reason them out of a position that they did not reason themselves into in the first place.

I'm generally reluctant to get involved in a thread that has so obviously devolved into a pointless flame-war, but since I find myself sitting around on a Sunday afternoon with little else to do, let me just scattergun a few points here. I'll use one of Reckall's comments as a base, since it touches on most of the issues circling around here.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM
Was this poor bear a marketing stunt? If so, it worked perfectly...

It kind of didn't though. Outside of this thread and a few people rolling their eyes and meme-ing in streams, I haven't seen a scrap of controversy about this. To me that's a more significant fact than the existence of bear sex in and of itself. The violation of taboos is an inevitable and sometimes creditable phenomenon in any society. The non-existence of those taboos is a thing far less precedented.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM
BG3 is not a porn game. It is as pornographic as Mass Effect is - only a bit more extreme (and still you aren't forced down that path). Do you even tried it??

I mean, you kind of contradicted yourself there, so maybe I don't need to even say it. Mass Effect never included anything more than artfully edited nudity; not even a nipple. The Witcher games would have been a better example, but IIRC those games religiously adhered to the "no genitals" rules typical of R-rated movies. As far as I'm aware, only two prior "mainstream" (that is, large budget, mass market) games have gone the full frontal route: Cyberpunk 2077 and Conan Exiles. So let's not pretend this is just business as usual.

Also, it's a bit much to ask someone to spend $70 on a game before they're allowed to have an opinion on it.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM

Quote
What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

It is rated M/17+

I'm not sure most people are aware of this, but under the ESRB system "Mature" and "Adults Only" are different ratings. Despite nominally being only one year apart for the audience, the two are quite different in their usage. The M rating is roughly equivalent to an R rating for films, and as others have pointed out, has always been a fig leaf for the industry. Companies publish M-rated games in the full understanding that they can and will get into the hands of teens, and are usually counting on it to boost sales figures. AO on the other hand, is more akin to the now defunct X-rating for movies, and is generally reserved for porn games or those bordering on it. The AO rating used to be regarded as a death sentence for games, as most retailers refused to stock it, but that's moot today as brick-and-mortar retailers no longer matter to the industry.

Ten years ago, the game probably would have gotten an AO rating, or more likely been forced to cut content to get back to M. That said, the ESRB is a pet creature of the big publishers, so it's credibility has always been suspect.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

Is that what that game is about? I tried out the previous one but turned it off after the first mandatory stealth section.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

In fairness, both of those are horror games, and are clearly not presenting that behavior as healthy and legitimate. As I alluded to above, there's nothing wrong with violating certain moral standards in the realm of fantasy, as long as the standard is at least honored in the breach.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

Is it? Ironically the whole "decadence leads to the fall of civilization" narrative is a traditionalist one. Anyway I thought sex with animals was second only to child abuse in triggering most people's disgust reactions.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 05, 2023, 10:25:28 PM
For example, if instead of going after BG3 for optional polymorph porn, an outrage practically designed to draw all the outrage while being so ridiculous that few in the general audience will take it seriously... if instead we focused on "why do the characters in this game even NEED explicit genitalia in the first place?" it might have been able to spark more outrage in the general population, particularly parents already upset about the sexualization of children (yes, I know it's rated MA, but parents barely pay attention and it's rarely enforced).

This comment crystallized a thought that had been banging around in my head for a few days. I'm of the age group where the golden age of D&D CRPGs (Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, Planescape and Neverwinter Nights) were a major factor in our adolescence. Kids got introduced to those games by older siblings, parents, uncles, etc. who played them, and were in turn introduced to tabletop roleplaying as a result. I think the 80s grognards sometimes forget just how many 90s kids were brought into the hobby due to computer games.

Now I'm the age those older gamers were when the originals came out, and there's a new Baldur's Gate. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend it to a teenager. Obviously it's Larian's choice to make, and you can't argue with the commercial results, but it strikes me as a pity they went that route. One of the sadder qualities of my generation is our tendency to take the things we liked as kids and want to make them not for kids anymore. Baldur's Gate has to have sex scenes and full frontal nudity because we're adults now, and that's what we like. Never mind that in doing do we're foreclosing it to the next generation of gamers.

EDIT: Fortunately, the Pathfinder games have continued to ride that line where they're pretty mature, but still within the realm of being safe for adolescents.

As far as my own take on the game goes: It looks like fun. Larian are competent developers, and I suspect that like Pathfinder, 5e probably works much better in a videogame than it does on the tabletop. I'm not outraged by the bear sex because I don't see much point in being outraged, and I have a relatively high wokeness tolerance as long as the game is otherwise of good quality. Like BoxCrayon, I've played far more degenerate games and occasionally enjoyed them. My chief reservation over buying it is more about not being sure how much of my money would go to WOTC/Hasbro.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 03:28:08 PM

Quote from: THE SAME ARGUMENT - EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. on August 04, 2023, 07:45:02 PM
* game has optional bear sex scene... right wing puritans most affected*

Geez! Imagine if everyone decided to boycott the game based on a single, insignificant, OPTIONAL, choice.
...

This right here is why Leftist SJW/LGBTQP entryism had gone virtually unopposed for decades.

Except that by chopping that quote in half, you changed the context and missed the point. The next two examples I gave were about things Lefties might boycott the game over, using their usual arguments. You can, as far as I'm aware, play as a sanctimonious paladin who pushes his own moral judgment onto others. While I would oppose this behavior in our actual society, it doesn't bother me that it is presented in a game designed around making choices.

And that seems to be where people are cherry-picking here. The claim is that actions in the game bleed through into society at large. Scenes of quasi-bestiality will led society into degeneracy. If that's true, then the scenes in the game that depict holy smiting will bring about a new religious crusade. Right?

Now the point I will concede is the use of the bear scene in marketing. That one, presumably obscure, outcome was intentionally released for promotional purposes. Why? Was it to generate a controversy and get eyes on the game? Was it to appeal to the fractional percentage point of the population that kinks on that? Who knows. It doesn't seem to have harmed the sales of the game, but it sure has sparked some discussion in corners of the internet where people salivate over the Culture War.

So it's not that the scene is in the game that is really the problem, but the fact they decided to push it to forefront is why it's become a wedge issue. Primarily because all the context that leads up to that scene has been removed. One way or another, people have been manipulated into having a gut reaction. A small number of people creamed in their bearsuits, while another small number of people clutched their pearls.

Greetings!

Yes, the game seems like it is degenerate trash.

I am kind of amused though--in a sad way, or ironic--that people are worried about "Adolescents playing this game and being corrupted!"

My brother-in-law's nephew started watching porn when he was in Junior High School. He had girlfriends that started watching gang-bangs on their phones when they were 11 or 12. GANG BANGS. Every day, at 12 years old.

The pop singer chick, Billy Eilish, publicly stated that porn is terrible, and has destroyed her mind. She said she started watching all kinds of porn every day on her phone when she was 11 years old.

Our kids--in general--have had hard core PORN HUB at their fingertips on their phones for at least the last 10 years. TEN YEARS of PORN HUB. For an 11 or 12 year old boy or girl, how much do you think they watch that stuff on their phones every night after you are in bed sleeping? Or watching it when you are at work? Or watching it on their phones when they are over their friend's house? I imagine many of their friends have single mommies, so she is not likely around, so the kids are free to do whatever they want.

You know, by the way, PORN HUB has hard core porn of every kind imaginable for those that have been living in caves or monasteries. ;D

It boggles my mind that it is COMMON for kids--pre-teens, not just adolescents--to be watching hard core porn every day for the last TEN YEARS. Our society is fucked. This game is trash, but honestly, compared to what kids can see at the touch of their phones, anytime they want--I find it hard to get overly worked up about this game having gay sex in it, or even animal sex.  In what amounts to a cut scene.

That whole thing in the game is nothing compared to your 12 year old daughter watching porn gang bangs for hours on end each and every day.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
...
Except that by chopping that quote in half, you changed the context and missed the point. The next two examples I gave were about things Lefties might boycott the game over, using their usual arguments.

I understood the point that you were making.

I also understand that nothing I say will be able to make you understand why your point is wrong.

Because you do not see why the Lefties not only do not boycott, but in fact heap great praise upon a game that has thematic elements in it that they have taken other games to task for in the past.

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
So it's not that the scene is in the game that is really the problem, but the fact they decided to push it to forefront is why it's become a wedge issue.

Your dismissal of a non-negative depiction of bestiality just because it is "easily ignored" is proof that they have been successful in moving the disgust window in their direction.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 03:41:23 PM
Is it? Ironically the whole "decadence leads to the fall of civilization" narrative is a traditionalist one. Anyway I thought sex with animals was second only to child abuse in triggering most people's disgust reactions.

One would think.

But alas, when it is presented as "optional, and insignificant"; evidently allowances are made.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 03:28:08 PM
So long as people feel that they can "ignore the icky", they let it slide because they otherwise get what they want from the new hotness.

Nevermind that we can demonstrably see that over time the dial on "the icky" only ever gets slowly turned up. Never down...

We had "The Book of Vile Darkness for D&D 3E in 2002. The "degenerate" contents in BG3 are in the kiddies section of that book. Even "The Book of Exalted Deeds" had some pretty unexpected stunts in it (both were labeled "For mature audiences"). If anything, BG3 is peeking up from the very tame playfield of today - not the other way around.

Also, all the letters of the alphabet put together can have their rights and their contents. I'm happy for them. This doesn't mean that these will become the only contents. Or maybe they will in BG4 and those who listened to the wrong crowd will unavoidably go down - as the last years proved over and over and over (and over).

Quote from: SHARK on August 06, 2023, 06:11:05 PM
...
It boggles my mind that it is COMMON for kids--pre-teens, not just adolescents--to be watching hard core porn every day for the last TEN YEARS. ...
That whole thing in the game is nothing compared to your 12 year old daughter watching porn gang bangs for hours on end each and every day.

The ubiquitousness of pornography in our society for decades in addition to other Leftist entryism promoting their pet degeneracies, and now we have a positive depiction of Bestiality largely getting a big "Meh" from the games target audience...

(https://y.yarn.co/01c9a96a-0862-4c9a-bcf3-ff51c707b29b_text.gif)

If anything the reactions to BG3 are instructive as to who is still a reasonable human being and whose brain has been hopelessly fried by libertinism.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 06:28:12 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 03:28:08 PM
So long as people feel that they can "ignore the icky", they let it slide because they otherwise get what they want from the new hotness.

Nevermind that we can demonstrably see that over time the dial on "the icky" only ever gets slowly turned up. Never down...

We had "The Book of Vile Darkness for D&D 3E in 2002. The "degenerate" contents in BG3 are in the kiddies section of that book. Even "The Book of Exalted Deeds" had some pretty unexpected stunts in it (both were labeled "For mature audiences"). If anything, BG3 is peeking up from the very tame playfield of today - not the other way around.

Also, all the letters of the alphabet put together can have their rights and their contents. I'm happy for them. This doesn't mean that these will become the only contents. Or maybe they will in BG4 and those who listened to the wrong crowd will unavoidably go down - as the last years proved over and over and over (and over).

"We ignored the Icky that should never have been allowed in the past (Because for 'adults' m'kay...), so this Icky that is reaching a far larger audience is not so bad in comparison!"

Movement of the "Icky" window closer to the acceptable category by the degenerate Left achieved...

Decades in the making; but they literally have people defending a positive depiction of Beastiality in videogames now.

Ridiculous, amazing, and scary to witness...

Quote from: Zelen on August 06, 2023, 06:49:48 PM
If anything the reactions to BG3 are instructive as to who is still a reasonable human being and whose brain has been hopelessly fried by libertinism.

Indeed.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 03:41:23 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM
Was this poor bear a marketing stunt? If so, it worked perfectly...

It kind of didn't though. Outside of this thread and a few people rolling their eyes and meme-ing in streams, I haven't seen a scrap of controversy about this. To me that's a more significant fact than the existence of bear sex in and of itself. The violation of taboos is an inevitable and sometimes creditable phenomenon in any society. The non-existence of those taboos is a thing far less precedented.

Discerning reality from fiction is a common function of the brain - if one isn't schizophrenic.

Quote
Also, it's a bit much to ask someone to spend $70 on a game before they're allowed to have an opinion on it.

It is also a bit much to ask for people to listen to opinions coming from those who haven't played the game.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM

Quote

Quote
What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

It is rated M/17+

I'm not sure most people are aware of this, but under the ESRB system "Mature" and "Adults Only" are different ratings.

One still has a frame of reference. If they end up with a bad experience they were warned. BTW, dunno elsewhere, but here the Italian law would slap a 18+ rating on BG3 - this one enforceable. I agree that today it is difficult to control who buys what. Still, IMHO it is the duty of the parents to check what their underage children are buying and playing - as I don't think that there are many 13 years old with a personal credit card...

Quote

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

Is it? Ironically the whole "decadence leads to the fall of civilization" narrative is a traditionalist one. Anyway I thought sex with animals was second only to child abuse in triggering most people's disgust reactions.

In real life, yes. However, many pagan/shamanistic religion have rites where the spiritual leaders "dress" as totemic animals and "become them" via acting, dance and maybe the stray drug - with at the end the "Bear" maybe "fertilizing the land" (if you get my meaning...), having sex with the "chosen Virgin" or whatever. Same, maybe, with the hunters, to bring good fortune.

So, in a fantasy world, what in the real world could be called "religious cosplaying" can become literal - especially in a druidic society. People from the outside could still find these acts aberrant - usually while crucifying the first dude who says "Hey, it would be neat to just love each other!"

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 02:21:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
I don't have room to criticize the game's necrophiliac bestiality because I bought and played Lust from Beyond. The premise of which is that a mad alien monarch lobotomized his populace against their will so they could enjoy drug-fueled orgies without those pesky higher brain functions getting in the way. Meanwhile, the rebels were uniquely stripped of their feelings as punishment and its unclear how aware they are of their condition.

I bought and played Scorn. The premise is that the upper class had so many drug-fueled orgies that it tore a hole in reality that is slowly eating their capital city. Meanwhile, the engineer class was bred to be snorted as drugs: they rightfully rebelled, nuked the environment, then destroyed themselves in a civil war. All the architecture is made from the still-living bodies of a slave class grown on battery farms who may or may not still be aware after they have been processed.

A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

I don't believe in censorship because it can and will be used against you when the tables inevitably turn. The best we can do right now is use age verification to protect kids, prosecute rapists, and ignore content we find revolting.

Who is asking for censorship?

No one's asking for censorship. We're just complaining profusely that this filthy Degenerate!™ game exists, and how anyone who disagrees or isn't outraged enough is "part of the problem" in allowing the "creeping degeneracy in the past" become what it is now. Which would NEVER lead to censorship once the people who think this way get into power, nor is it intended as a signal for people to ultimately demand that companies stop producing these games (which would NOT be censorship if and when that happens. Just like companies caving to SJW demands is not censorship).

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 05:12:28 PMAnd that seems to be where people are cherry-picking here. The claim is that actions in the game bleed through into society at large.

Which is exactly what the SJW's claim about Degenerate!™, I mean, "problematic" elements in games. But no parallels here. Just people not demanding censorship (...yet).

QuoteNow the point I will concede is the use of the bear scene in marketing. That one, presumably obscure, outcome was intentionally released for promotional purposes. Why? Was it to generate a controversy and get eyes on the game? Was it to appeal to the fractional percentage point of the population that kinks on that? Who knows. It doesn't seem to have harmed the sales of the game, but it sure has sparked some discussion in corners of the internet where people salivate over the Culture War.

So it's not that the scene is in the game that is really the problem, but the fact they decided to push it to forefront is why it's become a wedge issue. Primarily because all the context that leads up to that scene has been removed. One way or another, people have been manipulated into having a gut reaction. A small number of people creamed in their bearsuits, while another small number of people clutched their pearls.

Yeah, concede this point as well. The company using the bear scene for promotional material is basically rubbing it on people's faces and inviting this kind of controversy. But from everything that I've seen so far it's apparently some tiny, side element of the game that people are making a mounting out of.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
Decades in the making; but they literally have people defending a positive depiction of Beastiality in videogames now.

No. People are saying "Either realise that it is all fictional make-believe with these choices not even imposed to you, or denounce both Bear Sex and being the gleeful servant of Asmodeus who goes around doing hellish things". Put up or shut up.

It's pissing off the corpos, which is at least one positive. I'm too sick of the cookie cutter fantasy genre to ever play another fantasy game in my lifetime, but it's nice to see the anti-consumer corpos getting mad.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 07:09:00 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
Decades in the making; but they literally have people defending a positive depiction of Beastiality in videogames now.

No. People are saying "Either realise that it is all fictional make-believe with these choices not even imposed to you, or denounce both Bear Sex and being the gleeful servant of Asmodeus who goes around doing hellish things". Put up or shut up.

How is being the gleeful servant of Asmodeus not completely Degenerate?

Evil PC's have been banned at gaming tables for decades make believe or not for good reason.

Continually bringing up endless other obvious degeneracies to denounce to muddy the waters will never be the rhetorical gotcha you are looking for.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 07:09:00 PM
"Either realise that it is all fictional make-believe."

BG3 has a positive depiction of Beasitality.

How does positively portraying Beastiality in a fictional make-believe video game make it not disgusting?

Why would anyone dismiss the inclusion of a positive depiction of Beastiality in a video as game 'not a big deal' instead of calling it out as the disgusting, gross, and unacceptable content that it is?

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 07:41:27 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 07:09:00 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
Decades in the making; but they literally have people defending a positive depiction of Beastiality in videogames now.

No. People are saying "Either realise that it is all fictional make-believe with these choices not even imposed to you, or denounce both Bear Sex and being the gleeful servant of Asmodeus who goes around doing hellish things". Put up or shut up.

How is being the gleeful servant of Asmodeus not completely Degenerate?

Then why BG and other RPGs have the possibility of playing evil servants to Demon Lords since the '80s (not to mention in the very BG3) but only Bear Sex has people screaming "Degenerateeeeeeeeees!!!! Where they touched by a bear when they were kids or what's up?

Quote
BG3 has a positive depiction of Beasitality.

How does positively portraying Beastiality in a fictional make-believe video game make it not disgusting?

Positively? Are you even aware that you can still be disgusted by the act and refuse to do it? (I don't even know if you can expel that character from your party, or worse).

Quote
Why would anyone dismiss the inclusion of a positive depiction of Beastiality in a video as game 'not a big deal' instead of calling it out as the disgusting, gross, and unacceptable content that it is?

How to say "I didn't play the game" with fifteen times the words...

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 06:17:30 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
...
Except that by chopping that quote in half, you changed the context and missed the point. The next two examples I gave were about things Lefties might boycott the game over, using their usual arguments.

I understood the point that you were making.

I also understand that nothing I say will be able to make you understand why your point is wrong.

Because you do not see why the Lefties not only do not boycott, but in fact heap great praise upon a game that has thematic elements in it that they have taken other games to task for in the past.

Which raises the question... why aren't the religious gamers extolling the fact that you can play a devout paladin who smites heretics with holy retribution? Why are YOU letting the Left direct the narrative?

So, no... I don't think you understood my point at all.

Quote

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 05:12:28 PM
So it's not that the scene is in the game that is really the problem, but the fact they decided to push it to forefront is why it's become a wedge issue.

Your dismissal of a non-negative depiction of bestiality just because it is "easily ignored" is proof that they have been successful in moving the disgust window in their direction.

And 200 years ago, people would be burned at the stake for the mere suggestion they were a witch, yet here you are, playing a game with witches and magic and demons. Is it because you know it's only fictional, and that roleplaying such things is not tacit approval of them in the real world? The window of what's acceptable has moved to a position in which YOU feel comfortable. Or were those people in the past just too extreme, and only you have the one, true, correct opinion?

Depictions of acts that I would find lewd or disgusting in real life do not bother me much when presented in a work of fiction. I'm able to separate the two. As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

Is that clear enough to show you my position on this?

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
Discerning reality from fiction is a common function of the brain - if one isn't schizophrenic.

It is. In fact, it's so common that any remotely good faith argument would assume that faculty in others.

Quote
It is also a bit much to ask for people to listen to opinions coming from those who haven't played the game.

You know, I might agree with you if it was a case of people arguing from inaccurate information, or from no information at all. But the bear scene this all sprang from was publicly posted in this thread. Presumably we've all seen it. The other major points: the non-binary character options, the dong slider, Larian bitching about players making white guy characters, those are all well-documented facts. The other point you argued on about whether or not the characters were being dickish to the PC, you were arguing with someone who had played the game.

On that last point, I heard recently that Larian had gone back and re-written/re-recorded a lot of the NPC dialogue due to negative feedback, which is another possible explanation for the discrepancy.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 01:40:24 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 06, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
A druid bear-fucking a vampire elf is small potatoes by comparison, I suppose.

Quote
Is it? Ironically the whole "decadence leads to the fall of civilization" narrative is a traditionalist one. Anyway I thought sex with animals was second only to child abuse in triggering most people's disgust reactions.

In real life, yes. However, many pagan/shamanistic religion have rites where the spiritual leaders "dress" as totemic animals and "become them" via acting, dance and maybe the stray drug - with at the end the "Bear" maybe "fertilizing the land" (if you get my meaning...), having sex with the "chosen Virgin" or whatever. Same, maybe, with the hunters, to bring good fortune.

So, in a fantasy world, what in the real world could be called "religious cosplaying" can become literal - especially in a druidic society. People from the outside could still find these acts aberrant - usually while crucifying the first dude who says "Hey, it would be neat to just love each other!"

I don't think anyone had previously raised the question of whether the scenario was plausible, which...yeah, I can see that, though that's clearly not what was being portrayed in that scene. A bear specifically strikes me as implausible given the physical realities involved, but I could see a primitive tribe coming up with some kind of werewolf sex fertility rite. You could also conceive of a world where necromancers raise up zombie women to be their concubines. I think I've even read that short story.

But I have to ask what the point of the hypothetical is. I certainly was not raising an objection with the fact that someone was able to imagine this scenario, and I don't think anyone else was either. Trust me, I can imagine far more depraved scenarios than that, or pull them from any of several books on my shelves. The question, to me at least, is about how the scenario is portrayed, how the audience is intended to react, and the actual reaction achieved.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 06:28:12 PM
We had "The Book of Vile Darkness for D&D 3E in 2002. The "degenerate" contents in BG3 are in the kiddies section of that book. Even "The Book of Exalted Deeds" had some pretty unexpected stunts in it (both were labeled "For mature audiences"). If anything, BG3 is peeking up from the very tame playfield of today - not the other way around.

That comment made me curious enough to go find the hard-drive with all my 3.x pdfs on it and have a look through the "Book of Vile Darkness". The book is actually a good deal more tame than I remembered it, especially for the edgy post-grunge 00s. It's mostly just cheesy gore on the level of an "Evil Dead" movie, and standard dark wizard stuff. The only explicit sexual reference I could find was to a magic item called "The Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain."

You'd have been on stronger ground if you'd referenced the "Book of Erotic Fantasy", which does get very explicit. Even there, some parts of the book are actually rather quaint compared to standard internet discourse today. On point, it includes this table:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZFSP3rY/Bookof-EFTable.jpg)

It also lists Homosexuality on its table of "Common Cultural Taboos", which would be nigh inconceivable in a D&D supplement today.

Interestingly, the same table includes "Sex while shape-changed, polymorphed, reverse gendered or otherwise altered in form", so you are at least right that someone had conceived of a similar scenario back in the 3.0 days.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
BG3 has a positive depiction of Beasitality.

How does positively portraying Beastiality in a fictional make-believe video game make it not disgusting?

Why would anyone dismiss the inclusion of a positive depiction of Beastiality in a video as game 'not a big deal' instead of calling it out as the disgusting, gross, and unacceptable content that it is?

Technically, no, it doesn't.

Bestiality is sex between a human being and an animal.

Animal in this case meaning a being incapable of sapient thought giving consent.

This involved two rational beings fully capable of granting consent.

That said, one of them was a vampire so it's technically necrophila.

Quote from: Reckall on August 06, 2023, 08:22:54 PM
Positively? Are you even aware that you can still be disgusted by the act and refuse to do it? (I don't even know if you can expel that character from your party, or worse).

I think the complainers here are basically Virtue Signaling like pallet swapped SJWs.

The lack of basic self-awareness would be hilarious if it wasn't so fucking pathetic.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 08:51:38 PM
You know, I might agree with you if it was a case of people arguing from inaccurate information, or from no information at all. But the bear scene this all sprang from was publicly posted in this thread.

They're also acting like it's something unskipable. Don't like it, don't engage in it, don't act like a drama queen. Simple as that.

QuotePresumably we've all seen it. The other major points: the non-binary character options,

Who cares? They're not making you choose it.

Quotethe dong slider,

*points to 2077* Did it first, did it better, didn't hear anyone crying over it, and frankly, M rated game so I give zero fucks.

QuoteLarian bitching about players making white guy characters,

If you actually read the quote they're not bitching about "OMG not inclusive" but more complaining their weird body parts aren't getting any traction.

They're not saying white men are evil... they're saying their player base are a bunch of boring ass normies. Difference is subtle but profound.

https://i.redd.it/smjbasi998s51.png

Quotethose are all well-documented facts.

Well documented, poorly presented.

QuoteThat comment made me curious enough to go find the hard-drive with all my 3.x pdfs on it and have a look through the "Book of Vile Darkness". The book is actually a good deal more tame than I remembered it, especially for the edgy post-grunge 00s. It's mostly just cheesy gore on the level of an "Evil Dead" movie, and standard dark wizard stuff. The only explicit sexual reference I could find was to a magic item called "The Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain."

He was probably focusing on official stuff. And yeah, book of vile darkness was pretty weaksauce.

QuoteYou'd have been on stronger ground if you'd referenced the "Book of Erotic Fantasy", which does get very explicit. Even there, some parts of the book are actually rather quaint compared to standard internet discourse today. On point, it includes this table:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZFSP3rY/Bookof-EFTable.jpg)

It also lists Homosexuality on its table of "Common Cultural Taboos", which would be nigh inconceivable in a D&D supplement today.

Not official, sadly. In fact they put up a hell of a stink about it back in the day.

QuoteIt also lists Homosexuality on its table of "Common Cultural Taboos", which would be nigh inconceivable in a D&D supplement today.

I blame media studies infiltrating everything for that.

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM
I think the complainers here are basically Virtue Signaling like pallet swapped SJWs.

The lack of basic self-awareness would be hilarious if it wasn't so fucking pathetic.

No, that's not fair.
People have convictions and feel strongly about them. That should be lauded, not criticized. Fewer and fewer people in society actually have any principles these days.

The debate here is not over "virtue signalling" personally held convictions, it's over whether or not depictions in a work a of fiction should meet the same standards as reality. I don't think they should, but that doesn't also mean I think the standards of acceptability in real life should be lessened. In fact, there are plenty of areas where I think it should be strengthened, such as protecting children. And yes, this means making it more difficult for them to get their hands on adult material.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

The normalization is far more advanced than some are willing to admit, google "woman marries her dog" (not at work).

There was also a lot of women? posting on the twatter about fucking their dogs. Not sure if those were real or just trolls tho.

Like you say, until it's too late they will be happy to call the likes of me all kinds of names and then will pretend to be shocked when they start pushing pedo friendly laws and bestiality friendly laws, or will shrug and carry on.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

You know what? You've convinced me!
I'm gonna burn all my awful books, with their depictions of Satanic demon worship and mind control spells, and start a grassroots campaign to get all rpgs banned. I'll call it the Eirikrautha Foundation, in honor of you.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 06, 2023, 07:41:27 PMWhy would anyone dismiss the inclusion of a positive depiction of Beastiality in a video as game 'not a big deal' instead of calling it out as the disgusting, gross, and unacceptable content that it is?

But only in a non-censorious way, please! Cuz we don't wanna hurt Geeky's feelings. No one's asking for censorship here. People are only asking for it to be called out as unacceptable content that should not be included, but only in a totally non-censorious fashion.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 08:51:38 PMInterestingly, the same table includes "Sex while shape-changed, polymorphed, reverse gendered or otherwise altered in form", so you are at least right that someone had conceived of a similar scenario back in the 3.0 days.

There are real life myths of gods, like Zeus or Loki, having sex while shape shifted. So people have been conceiving of a similar scenarios for thousands of years.

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 09:28:25 PM
No, that's not fair.
People have convictions and feel strongly about them. That should be lauded, not criticized. Fewer and fewer people in society actually have any principles these days.

I disagree.

Most SJWs, the true believers... have very strong convictions.

Just because a conviction is strong doesn't mean it's not objectionable.

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 09:35:06 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

You know what? You've convinced me!
I'm gonna burn all my awful books, with their depictions of Satanic demon worship and mind control spells, and start a grassroots campaign to get all rpgs banned. I'll call it the Eirikrautha Foundation, in honor of you.

You mock now. But just you wait till the sea of people marrying their dogs and their horses comes in because you failed to strongly condemn a toss away sex scene between a vampire and a druid shapeshited into a bear that you can't even access unless you go through a bunch of text options in (what I'm assuming is a side quest in) a video game. When your neighbor, your brother and your boss come ask you to greet their new donkey spouse, don't say we didn't warn you! THIS IS ON YOU!

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 09:45:54 PM
You mock now. But just you wait till the sea of people marrying their dogs and their horses comes in because you failed to strongly condemn a toss away sex scene between a vampire and a druid shapeshited into a bear that you can't even access unless you go through a bunch of text options in (what I'm assuming is a side quest in) a video game. When your neighbor, your brother and your boss come ask you to greet their new donkey spouse, don't say we didn't warn you! THIS IS ON YOU!

I DON'T mock !!!

I'm a changed man now, and you freedom-loving HEATHENS will burn upon the pyre of my once-beloved, now-reviled DnD collection. And the smoke of your sinner-flesh will rise to Heaven and the skies will part and God will bestow upon me the Rod of Censure, so that I may ban everything that is a personal affront to me. And all those that oppose shall be deemed Twatwaffles! Can I get a 'Wahmen?"

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:640/format:webp/1*89Gy2VFlo6aZjMRayglF4w.jpeg)

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 08:51:38 PM
Presumably we've all seen it. The other major points: the non-binary character options,

Who cares? They're not making you choose it.

Y'all are trying to make me out as much more upset about all this than I actually am. That is in fact precisely what I'll do, if and when I start playing the game.

That said, to those of us who retain a certain skepticism about the legitimacy of the entire gender-critical paradigm, it's always going to be a slight annoyance to see it creeping ever more towards being a universally unquestioned doctrine.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM

Quotethe dong slider,

*points to 2077* Did it first, did it better, didn't hear anyone crying over it, and frankly, M rated game so I give zero fucks.

I'm curious what you mean by "did it better". Is it just that Cyberpunk had an uncircumsized option? The reaction I recall to that was mostly rolled eyes and jokes, which as I noted before, is also the predominant reaction I'm seeing to BG3.

And if we're going to have a dong slider, is a titty slider too much to ask for?

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM

QuoteLarian bitching about players making white guy characters,

If you actually read the quote they're not bitching about "OMG not inclusive" but more complaining their weird body parts aren't getting any traction.

They're not saying white men are evil... they're saying their player base are a bunch of boring ass normies. Difference is subtle but profound.

https://i.redd.it/smjbasi998s51.png

Okay, I'm prepared to assume the malice there was more on the part of the journalists reporting it than the developer. I would still happily disagree with the implication that a regular humanoid is an inherently inferior character choice to a rainbow demon-creature.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM

Quote
You'd have been on stronger ground if you'd referenced the "Book of Erotic Fantasy", which does get very explicit. Even there, some parts of the book are actually rather quaint compared to standard internet discourse today. On point, it includes this table:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZFSP3rY/Bookof-EFTable.jpg)

It also lists Homosexuality on its table of "Common Cultural Taboos", which would be nigh inconceivable in a D&D supplement today.

Not official, sadly. In fact they put up a hell of a stink about it back in the day.

I don't know about "sadly". One of the charms of the OGL was the wild west atmosphere it created in supplemental books. Plus, it's not like the Book of Erotic Fantasy was a terribly useful game supplement. The authors seem to have been sincere, but I recall everyone else treating it as a meme.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 09:35:32 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 08:51:38 PMInterestingly, the same table includes "Sex while shape-changed, polymorphed, reverse gendered or otherwise altered in form", so you are at least right that someone had conceived of a similar scenario back in the 3.0 days.

There are real life myths of gods, like Zeus or Loki, having sex while shape shifted. So people have been conceiving of a similar scenarios for thousands of years.

Yeah, there's probably a whole book to be written on pseudo-bestiality in ancient myth. I'm not the guy to write that book, though.  There's also a surprising amount of gender-bending in ancient myths too, as I recall. I've always been skeptical of anyone who presumes to map those myths 1-to-1 onto a modern context, though. (Not that I'm accusing you of that.) the mere fact that it is ancient myth means you have to be extremely careful about assuming what it meant to the people who came up with it.

EDITED to fix some formatting and clumsy verbiage.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 10:13:09 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 06, 2023, 09:09:33 PM

Quote
You'd have been on stronger ground if you'd referenced the "Book of Erotic Fantasy", which does get very explicit. Even there, some parts of the book are actually rather quaint compared to standard internet discourse today. On point, it includes this table:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BZFSP3rY/Bookof-EFTable.jpg)

It also lists Homosexuality on its table of "Common Cultural Taboos", which would be nigh inconceivable in a D&D supplement today.

Not official, sadly. In fact they put up a hell of a stink about it back in the day.

I don't know about "sadly". One of the charms of the OGL was the wild west atmosphere it created in supplemental books. Plus, it's not like the Book of Erotic Fantasy was a terribly useful game supplement. The authors seem to have been sincere, but I recall everyone else treating it as a meme.

I actually have it and it was an interesting read. I never used it, to be clear, but it was a serious attempt at defining/imagining sex life in a fantasy setting. Dunno about the reactions at the time. However, you can find Tolkien's ideas about sex between Elves in "The Nature of Middle-earth" (I mean... Tolkien for the win :D!)

Regarding Homosexuality, I agree for it to be in a list of "common taboos" in a medieval setting. Regarding "Bestiality", however, I fully agree that it should be condemned in its literal sense. A specific druidic ceremony can be still considered something different.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 06, 2023, 09:35:32 PM
There are real life myths of gods, like Zeus or Loki, having sex while shape shifted. So people have been conceiving of a similar scenarios for thousands of years.

Even if in most cases it could be considered rape.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 09:33:00 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

The normalization is far more advanced than some are willing to admit, google "woman marries her dog" (not at work).

There was also a lot of women? posting on the twatter about fucking their dogs. Not sure if those were real or just trolls tho.

Like you say, until it's too late they will be happy to call the likes of me all kinds of names and then will pretend to be shocked when they start pushing pedo friendly laws and bestiality friendly laws, or will shrug and carry on.

You do seem to believe that if "fucking your dog" becomes a fad, more people will fuck their dog. 100 videos of people fucking dogs won't make me a "dog gigolo" (and I hope not to see them in the first place).

I.e. you seem to believe in some sort of "Exposition leads to behaviour ---> No exposition will curtail that behaviour". This is both "A Clockwork Orange" (and it didn't worked even in a "Clockwork Orange") and a very delusional belief of how our brain works. Putting something in the open only makes more people to come out of their closet - as their taboo now seems to be accepted - but I don't think that the overall percentage of (LGBTQ+, Bear fuckers, dudes doing it while parachuting...) increases. A dog doesn't arouse me - full stop. The closest I ever was to "degenerate perversion" were those times when I met a truly interesting man and I thought "Pity: if I was a woman this would have been someone special". I still was never aroused by men.

I agree that social media are making all sort of people to come out of the woodwork. This doesn't mean that they are more than before: before they were simply in the woodwork.

I even agree that this is unhealthy for young people who still are in the delicate period of their life when you are seeking your own identity. At their age I had to "like" the Duran Duran and cry during "9 1/2 Weeks" or your hopes to score with a girl were basically nil. Today the "way you have to be" touches much serious topics. There is a terrible epidemic of mental health problems among young people - something that can be factually proven.

Still, "they/them blue whales on TikTok" are only one of the reason - unreasonably stricter parenting laws being a much bigger one. Once again, lot of lunatics getting more exposition simply generates the illusion that there are more lunatics and that they are generating much more. When we missed the memo that every. single. woke. movie. and. show. still. unavoidably. fails? Disney is on the verge of bankruptcy: it seems that, no, waving rainbow flags didn't make their IPs stronger, but actually obliterated them. The World, alas, is saner that they thought.

But... all the above it is about the real world (and, again, it seems that the "Clockwork Orange" approach doesn't work). Here you have a fictional scene with a bear who is actually a druid, played for laughs (the scene is a sort of The Big Bang Theory for 17+ area) and you can say no. On unrelated news, Que viva al sirviente de Asmodeus!!!! Astounding.

So some of you are missing a point.

What, exactly, does genital customization and romance between a vampire elf and a druid wildshaped into a bear bring to the story and game?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 07, 2023, 08:47:49 AM
So some of you are missing a point.

What, exactly, does genital customization and romance between a vampire elf and a druid wildshaped into a bear bring to the story and game?

Edgy shock humor, and little else.

Apparently it generates a huge increase in sales and interest? It currently has almost a million active players per day. I never realized how many perverts there really are!

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 07, 2023, 08:47:49 AM
So some of you are missing a point.

What, exactly, does genital customization and romance between a vampire elf and a druid wildshaped into a bear bring to the story and game?

What does ANY type of customization, or obscure dialog options from a side quest bring into the story?

Not that anyone is really defending genital customization in any significant way (other than maybe Psyckosama at one point, and it wasn't even an endorsement, just "...it's been done in other games"). This discussion is about shapeshifted bear sex as a dialog option you have to dig through in a SIDE quest. Which I suppose actually qualifies as ""what it brings to the story", since this was apparently part of the unfolding romance between those characters.

And you don't even have to pick that option. It's just there as a goof as far as I can tell, not the endorsement of "bestiality" that people here have been hyperventilating about. Much the same way that the series "The Magicians" (which I've been watching recently) has a scene where two of the main characters have sex while shapeshifted as foxes, then it comes up a couple of times as comic relief later on. So I guess I've been endorsing "bestiality" without knowing it these past few weeks, cuz that was season 1 and I'm at season 3 now.

The downfall of Western Civilization to raging furries is on me!

Quote from: Reckall on August 07, 2023, 12:01:01 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 09:33:00 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

The normalization is far more advanced than some are willing to admit, google "woman marries her dog" (not at work).

There was also a lot of women? posting on the twatter about fucking their dogs. Not sure if those were real or just trolls tho.

Like you say, until it's too late they will be happy to call the likes of me all kinds of names and then will pretend to be shocked when they start pushing pedo friendly laws and bestiality friendly laws, or will shrug and carry on.

You do seem to believe that if "fucking your dog" becomes a fad, more people will fuck their dog. 100 videos of people fucking dogs won't make me a "dog gigolo" (and I hope not to see them in the first place).

I.e. you seem to believe in some sort of "Exposition leads to behaviour ---> No exposition will curtail that behaviour". This is both "A Clockwork Orange" (and it didn't worked even in a "Clockwork Orange") and a very delusional belief of how our brain works. Putting something in the open only makes more people to come out of their closet - as their taboo now seems to be accepted - but I don't think that the overall percentage of (LGBTQ+, Bear fuckers, dudes doing it while parachuting...) increases. A dog doesn't arouse me - full stop. The closest I ever was to "degenerate perversion" were those times when I met a truly interesting man and I thought "Pity: if I was a woman this would have been someone special". I still was never aroused by men.

I agree that social media are making all sort of people to come out of the woodwork. This doesn't mean that they are more than before: before they were simply in the woodwork.

I even agree that this is unhealthy for young people who still are in the delicate period of their life when you are seeking your own identity. At their age I had to "like" the Duran Duran and cry during "9 1/2 Weeks" or your hopes to score with a girl were basically nil. Today the "way you have to be" touches much serious topics. There is a terrible epidemic of mental health problems among young people - something that can be factually proven.

Still, "they/them blue whales on TikTok" are only one of the reason - unreasonably stricter parenting laws being a much bigger one. Once again, lot of lunatics getting more exposition simply generates the illusion that there are more lunatics and that they are generating much more. When we missed the memo that every. single. woke. movie. and. show. still. unavoidably. fails? Disney is on the verge of bankruptcy: it seems that, no, waving rainbow flags didn't make their IPs stronger, but actually obliterated them. The World, alas, is saner that they thought.

But... all the above it is about the real world (and, again, it seems that the "Clockwork Orange" approach doesn't work). Here you have a fictional scene with a bear who is actually a druid, played for laughs (the scene is a sort of The Big Bang Theory for 17+ area) and you can say no. On unrelated news, Que viva al sirviente de Asmodeus!!!! Astounding.

And yet, the well-documented rise in trans youth (based on influences in media, peers, and education) totally destroys your premise.  Not every medium is a strong influence.  Not every person is susceptible to every message (but most are way more susceptible than they believe).  But the Overton Window and normalization are real things.  And, apparently, the only time that people like you feel it is justified to stop such shifting of the Overton Window is at the beginning, because you cite all of the stuff that has happened before as if they are counter-claims...

EDIT:  Just to clarify the last sentence:  Earlier on this thread you and several others have provided examples of other "degenerate" behavior that is present in earlier iterations of RPGs and D&D as if the lack of push-back then somehow means that pushback against this degeneracy is somehow too late or hypocritical.  This is a non sequitur, but were I to take the complaint seriously, then opposition must occur (by your argument) at the first sign of degeneracy, no matter how innocuous, in order to be valid.  Thankfully, I reject this view, but it is the logical outcome of your complaints above.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 07, 2023, 12:01:01 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 09:33:00 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

The normalization is far more advanced than some are willing to admit, google "woman marries her dog" (not at work).

There was also a lot of women? posting on the twatter about fucking their dogs. Not sure if those were real or just trolls tho.

Like you say, until it's too late they will be happy to call the likes of me all kinds of names and then will pretend to be shocked when they start pushing pedo friendly laws and bestiality friendly laws, or will shrug and carry on.

You do seem to believe that if "fucking your dog" becomes a fad, more people will fuck their dog. 100 videos of people fucking dogs won't make me a "dog gigolo" (and I hope not to see them in the first place).

I.e. you seem to believe in some sort of "Exposition leads to behaviour ---> No exposition will curtail that behaviour". This is both "A Clockwork Orange" (and it didn't worked even in a "Clockwork Orange") and a very delusional belief of how our brain works. Putting something in the open only makes more people to come out of their closet - as their taboo now seems to be accepted - but I don't think that the overall percentage of (LGBTQ+, Bear fuckers, dudes doing it while parachuting...) increases. A dog doesn't arouse me - full stop. The closest I ever was to "degenerate perversion" were those times when I met a truly interesting man and I thought "Pity: if I was a woman this would have been someone special". I still was never aroused by men.

I agree that social media are making all sort of people to come out of the woodwork. This doesn't mean that they are more than before: before they were simply in the woodwork.

I even agree that this is unhealthy for young people who still are in the delicate period of their life when you are seeking your own identity. At their age I had to "like" the Duran Duran and cry during "9 1/2 Weeks" or your hopes to score with a girl were basically nil. Today the "way you have to be" touches much serious topics. There is a terrible epidemic of mental health problems among young people - something that can be factually proven.

Still, "they/them blue whales on TikTok" are only one of the reason - unreasonably stricter parenting laws being a much bigger one. Once again, lot of lunatics getting more exposition simply generates the illusion that there are more lunatics and that they are generating much more. When we missed the memo that every. single. woke. movie. and. show. still. unavoidably. fails? Disney is on the verge of bankruptcy: it seems that, no, waving rainbow flags didn't make their IPs stronger, but actually obliterated them. The World, alas, is saner that they thought.

But... all the above it is about the real world (and, again, it seems that the "Clockwork Orange" approach doesn't work). Here you have a fictional scene with a bear who is actually a druid, played for laughs (the scene is a sort of The Big Bang Theory for 17+ area) and you can say no. On unrelated news, Que viva al sirviente de Asmodeus!!!! Astounding.

And yet, the well-documented rise in trans youth (based on influences in media, peers, and education) totally destroys your premise.  Not every medium is a strong influence.  Not every person is susceptible to every message (but most are way more susceptible than they believe).  But the Overton Window and normalization are real things.  And, apparently, the only time that people like you feel it is justified to stop such shifting of the Overton Window is at the beginning, because you cite all of the stuff that has happened before as if they are counter-claims...

EDIT:  Just to clarify the last sentence:  Earlier on this thread you and several others have provided examples of other "degenerate" behavior that is present in earlier iterations of RPGs and D&D as if the lack of push-back then somehow means that pushback against this degeneracy is somehow too late or hypocritical.  This is a non sequitur, but were I to take the complaint seriously, then opposition must occur (by your argument) at the first sign of degeneracy, no matter how innocuous, in order to be valid.  Thankfully, I reject this view, but it is the logical outcome of your complaints above.

People have been systematically brainwashed by a runway ideology propped up by the mainstream media, social media algorithms, the use of mass censorship and extreme social pressure to silence all opposition, and bad actors infiltrating various levels of society from government to academia, to push a social constructivist agenda that frames sex as a social construct and targets children from a young age through an ideologically captured education system. Therefore some obscure shapeshifted sex scene included as a goof, accessible only through multiple dialog options in a side quest in a video game will lead to the normalization of bestiality in society if we don't stop this DEGENERACY!™ on its tracks before it's too late! Because it's the mere inclusion of toss away instances of Degenerate!™ behavior in media that influences people into extreme behavior, and not the systematic efforts of bad actors operating as a standalone complex with access to extensive resources and the backing of coopted institutions.

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 09:10:23 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 07, 2023, 08:47:49 AM
So some of you are missing a point.

What, exactly, does genital customization and romance between a vampire elf and a druid wildshaped into a bear bring to the story and game?

Edgy shock humor, and little else.

Well, that and a significant boost in Larian's social credit with game journos and awards committees

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 07, 2023, 12:01:01 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 09:33:00 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 06, 2023, 08:36:27 PM

As soon as Lefties start pushing for bestiality laws, I'll be right there, shoulder to shoulder with you, waving my pitchfork.

No, you won't.  By that point, you'll be pointing at all of the depictions of bestiality in media and games and saying, "What's the big deal?  Nobody thinks this is a big deal now.  The time to have objected to this was when it first started.  At this point it's useless to complain..."

The normalization is far more advanced than some are willing to admit, google "woman marries her dog" (not at work).

There was also a lot of women? posting on the twatter about fucking their dogs. Not sure if those were real or just trolls tho.

Like you say, until it's too late they will be happy to call the likes of me all kinds of names and then will pretend to be shocked when they start pushing pedo friendly laws and bestiality friendly laws, or will shrug and carry on.

You do seem to believe that if "fucking your dog" becomes a fad, more people will fuck their dog. 100 videos of people fucking dogs won't make me a "dog gigolo" (and I hope not to see them in the first place).

I.e. you seem to believe in some sort of "Exposition leads to behaviour ---> No exposition will curtail that behaviour". This is both "A Clockwork Orange" (and it didn't worked even in a "Clockwork Orange") and a very delusional belief of how our brain works. Putting something in the open only makes more people to come out of their closet - as their taboo now seems to be accepted - but I don't think that the overall percentage of (LGBTQ+, Bear fuckers, dudes doing it while parachuting...) increases. A dog doesn't arouse me - full stop. The closest I ever was to "degenerate perversion" were those times when I met a truly interesting man and I thought "Pity: if I was a woman this would have been someone special". I still was never aroused by men.

I agree that social media are making all sort of people to come out of the woodwork. This doesn't mean that they are more than before: before they were simply in the woodwork.

I even agree that this is unhealthy for young people who still are in the delicate period of their life when you are seeking your own identity. At their age I had to "like" the Duran Duran and cry during "9 1/2 Weeks" or your hopes to score with a girl were basically nil. Today the "way you have to be" touches much serious topics. There is a terrible epidemic of mental health problems among young people - something that can be factually proven.

Still, "they/them blue whales on TikTok" are only one of the reason - unreasonably stricter parenting laws being a much bigger one. Once again, lot of lunatics getting more exposition simply generates the illusion that there are more lunatics and that they are generating much more. When we missed the memo that every. single. woke. movie. and. show. still. unavoidably. fails? Disney is on the verge of bankruptcy: it seems that, no, waving rainbow flags didn't make their IPs stronger, but actually obliterated them. The World, alas, is saner that they thought.

But... all the above it is about the real world (and, again, it seems that the "Clockwork Orange" approach doesn't work). Here you have a fictional scene with a bear who is actually a druid, played for laughs (the scene is a sort of The Big Bang Theory for 17+ area) and you can say no. On unrelated news, Que viva al sirviente de Asmodeus!!!! Astounding.

And yet, the well-documented rise in trans youth (based on influences in media, peers, and education) totally destroys your premise.  Not every medium is a strong influence.  Not every person is susceptible to every message (but most are way more susceptible than they believe).  But the Overton Window and normalization are real things.  And, apparently, the only time that people like you feel it is justified to stop such shifting of the Overton Window is at the beginning, because you cite all of the stuff that has happened before as if they are counter-claims...

Actually it doesn't. True, it underlines the real question: are these people - who genuinely feel they are "living in the wrong sex" - now more comfortable in coming out of the closet, or are they taking a rash decision from where there is no coming back?

Regarding the second case, it is worth remembering how you don't just cut your balls (if man to woman): first there is a psychological evaluation, then you can simply start dressing and behaving like a different sex, then there are methods from which one can come back (like some forms of hormonal therapy). Surgery is simply the stronger option - but the individual has many opportunities to re-evaluate his choice before the nuclear strike.

In saner times the "regret percentage" was around 3%-6% - and it needed a few years before the individual realised that changing sex had been a mistake. Will this percentage increase in the future? We still can't tell, but there are some hints we can consider.

When psychologists all over the English speaking World (and this is important) started to be worried by an increase of mental health problems amid the youngs, the answer (by the usual NYT) was "No, actually this is a positive thing, the youngs speak more about depression and the like!" While this was true for many other things (including a more open willingness to talk about transgenderism), the ifactual markers that there was a mental health epidemic among the youngs were chilling: increase in self-harm, depression and suicides shot up to up 150%-200%. This was finally confirmed around early 2020 - and then COVID struck and made all of us a little more mad - each one in our own way - so we now literally have to start again.

Does this means that now youngs are more vulnerable to rash decisions in the normal need to "belong"? It is quite possible. Or maybe they are more open in considering a real need. The current polarization doesn't help. ("If you are not pro LGBTQ+ you have to die" "If you are not against LGBTQ+ you have to die") Still, the whole safety net before one does the irremediable is still in place, and I hope that it is being applied.

I hope that the Pundit is not coming to banham me, because the above is not only about the real world but our hobby too - including "If in a game as big as GTA V you can fuck a bear then the game, you and the World at range are all degenerates!!!!!11" While my instinctive answer is "Get a grip" I can't close my eyes on the fact that these kinds of total refusal are more tribal reactions against a positive openness (again: I have problems if they shove something down my throat, not if they give me and others our own choice) than anything else.

If you curious about how many of the things happening in modern popular culture have more complex sources and underlying reasons than usually understood, there is a nice summary made by Jonathan Haidt. It is "How we arrived to trigger warnings 101", but it is a good starting point.

I'm all for options that i can ignore and have solid gameplay.  Want to play as your pansexual tiefling 3 nutted non-binary hybrid? Have fun, knock yourself out.

From what I see, read, and pay attention to once I get past character creation the rest of the story is fairly entertaining and a solid game.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 09:46:27 AM
And yet, the well-documented rise in trans youth (based on influences in media, peers, and education) totally destroys your premise.  Not every medium is a strong influence.  Not every person is susceptible to every message (but most are way more susceptible than they believe).  But the Overton Window and normalization are real things.  And, apparently, the only time that people like you feel it is justified to stop such shifting of the Overton Window is at the beginning, because you cite all of the stuff that has happened before as if they are counter-claims...

EDIT:  Just to clarify the last sentence:  Earlier on this thread you and several others have provided examples of other "degenerate" behavior that is present in earlier iterations of RPGs and D&D as if the lack of push-back then somehow means that pushback against this degeneracy is somehow too late or hypocritical.  This is a non sequitur, but were I to take the complaint seriously, then opposition must occur (by your argument) at the first sign of degeneracy, no matter how innocuous, in order to be valid.  Thankfully, I reject this view, but it is the logical outcome of your complaints above.

Except that it's the logical outcome of YOUR complaints, and we're only trying to point that out. You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures. The Satanic Panic claimed that games with magic spells and demon worship would lead to Godlessness, and here we are in current year, where church attendance has dropped and secular religions have replaced traditional ones. So the Satanic Panic must have been right, and your willing participation in supporting such games MUST have contributed to the slow creep toward Godlessness. Right? Or do you have a Special Pleading argument for me about how your particular point of view is exempt from your own complaints?

Corelation does not equal causation. Killing people in games does not lead to increased homicide rates; summon demon spells do not lead to atheism; polymorphed sex scenes will not lead to increased bestiality. The primary-mover of the Overton Window is much more complex than you're trying to make it seem.

But I am curious... what do you propose the solution is to curb, or even reverse, this shift? I can speculate and infer things from the subtext of your posts, but I'd really rather hear you say it.

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

You don't understand, by criticizing the degeneracy openly (in their minds) you're "de facto" calling for censorship, they know because they can read our minds.

Just like ignoring assholes is the same as cancelling someone.

It's why they insist on the "muh satanic panic" bullshit. They KNOW we're not asking for censorship (because we've said so and because we would be calling for it elsewhere where it could maybe gain some traction), they KNOW it's not a moral panic, but we must either celebrate the degeneracy or at the very least remain silent.

Lest others discover how utterly disgusting the new hotness is.

Sorry, but no random asshole in the internet is going to silence me.

On the other hand they can furiously type in all caps at me all they want, I'm not reading their drivel.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM
But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.

A few lines later.

Quote
The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.

What you have to pay attention to is not that people tell you that you are are wrong but what their reasoning is (if there is one). At the end you can still have your opinion but, if anything, it got stronger, because you could examine it under a different light. Putting your hands over your ears and singing "Lalala!" seldom ends well.

Quote
But, like all leftists, the degenerates

Because the degenerates are all leftists, sure. Fascism doesn't lead to degeneration... ::)

Quote
are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.

I guess that they

"believe in something strongly enough that the only thing they need to do is ignore the people who are telling them that they are wrong."

Quote
They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.

I.e. Bear porn - not being a demonic thrall.

Quote
Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

They also want "us" to have a clue about the game before criticising it. You know - "knowledge".

Quote
I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light

Does it? The game allows you to perform some truly evil acts. Are those presented in a "positive light" too? Or we can condemn both preaching for the devil and bear porn? Remember, you can be disgusted by these ideas and refuse them as aberrant in-game. 

Quote
Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.

I disagree with your position and explained why many times.

Quote
I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board

How to say "I actually got explanations as why some people disagree with me... how can I sweep all of them under the rug?" without saying so.

Quote
(they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).

The above statement is so stupid and clueless on so many levels that I'm not even offended :D

Quote
But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.

"Unique" as is "Arming yourself with assault weapons and starting shooting sprees in elementary schools"?

Quote
And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Then do it. I would very miffed if some one, one day, will come out and say "Peoples of the World, we can't publish BG3 anymore because the Americans and their Furry Panic don't want to" - but maybe that's me.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Except that you aren't just passively expressing a position to the "vociferous" protests of posters objecting for no reason, but making yourself a moral arbiter while implicitly deputizing everyone to your cause and taking a fundamentally adversarial stance against anyone who disagrees by declaring them Degenerates!™ and "part of the problem". Then pretending that opposition somehow proves your point, while failing to demonstrate the existence of the problem, or to refute people's points.

All you have are slippery slopes, circular reasoning and moral grandstanding. While espousing literal BITCH and SJW strategies, like engaging shame and social stigma in lieu of overt force or reasoned arguments. Which are typically the tools of catty women (i.e. "bitches"), and SJWs, as well as puritans and church ladies (but I repeat myself).

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:50:04 PMYou don't understand, by criticizing the degeneracy openly (in their minds) you're "de facto" calling for censorship, they know because they can read our minds.

Just like ignoring assholes is the same as cancelling someone.

It's why they insist on the "muh satanic panic" bullshit. They KNOW we're not asking for censorship (because we've said so and because we would be calling for it elsewhere where it could maybe gain some traction), they KNOW it's not a moral panic, but we must either celebrate the degeneracy or at the very least remain silent.

Lest others discover how utterly disgusting the new hotness is.

Sorry, but no random asshole in the internet is going to silence me.

On the other hand they can furiously type in all caps at me all they want, I'm not reading their drivel.

No. We know because it IS de facto censorship. No mind reading necessary. The ultimate goal and end result if you had your way is the same regardless. You just don't have the balls to call it censorship and you have too much cognitive dissonance to realize that's what it ultimately comes down to. You just want it removed through some miraculous process that magically drives it out of existence without you actually calling for censorship. But this is ultimately about censorship, because that is what the "suppression or prohibition* of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene (or "Degenerate!™"), politically unacceptable, or a threat to security" is (Google definition of censorship).

It might not be overt censorship. And you might rationalize it as some "soft power" bullshit trying to get people to self-censor through social stigma and shame (totally not SJW tactics, by the way). But it's ultimately about censorship. You (the plural "you", including all the people outside this forum who think the same way) just don't have the social clout to actually do it. Yet.

But when the time comes I know you will. If not you personally, then one of the other plural "yous". Because that's what people who appoint themselves moral arbiters always do when they get into power. And my principle is to oppose people like you.

Have fun clutching your pearls behind a block while pretending that rhetorical jabs and reasoned disagreements with specific points you could refute (if you had logical arguments for your positions, as opposed to just feels and moral grandstanding) are somehow attempts to "silence" you.

*I eagerly await the nitpicking over this copy pasted definition to point out that you don't even have the power to "prohibit" anything and waffle about whether coercing people into self-censorship through shame and social stigma counts as "suppression" (it does, but I know you think it doesn't). If any of you even has the balls to attempt to refute this.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 10:34:46 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Except that you aren't just passively expressing a position to the "vociferous" protests of posters objecting for no reason, but making yourself a moral arbiter while implicitly deputizing everyone to your cause and taking a fundamentally adversarial stance against anyone who disagrees by declaring them Degenerates!™ and "part of the problem". Then pretending that opposition somehow proves your point, while failing to demonstrate the existence of the problem, or to refute people's points.

All you have are slippery slopes, circular reasoning and moral grandstanding. While espousing literal BITCH and SJW strategies, like engaging shame and social stigma in lieu of overt force or reasoned arguments. Which are typically the tools of catty women (i.e. "bitches"), and SJWs, as well as puritans and church ladies (but I repeat myself).

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:50:04 PMYou don't understand, by criticizing the degeneracy openly (in their minds) you're "de facto" calling for censorship, they know because they can read our minds.

Just like ignoring assholes is the same as cancelling someone.

It's why they insist on the "muh satanic panic" bullshit. They KNOW we're not asking for censorship (because we've said so and because we would be calling for it elsewhere where it could maybe gain some traction), they KNOW it's not a moral panic, but we must either celebrate the degeneracy or at the very least remain silent.

Lest others discover how utterly disgusting the new hotness is.

Sorry, but no random asshole in the internet is going to silence me.

On the other hand they can furiously type in all caps at me all they want, I'm not reading their drivel.

No. We know because it IS de facto censorship. No mind reading necessary. The ultimate goal and end result if you had your way is the same regardless. You just don't have the balls to call it censorship and you have too much cognitive dissonance to realize that's what it ultimately comes down to. You just want it removed through some miraculous process that magically drives it out of existence without you actually calling for censorship. But this is ultimately about censorship, because that is what the "suppression or prohibition* of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene (or "Degenerate!™"), politically unacceptable, or a threat to security" is (Google definition of censorship).

It might not be overt censorship. And you might rationalize it as some "soft power" bullshit trying to get people to self-censor through social stigma and shame (totally not SJW tactics, by the way). But it's ultimately about censorship. You (the plural "you", including all the people outside this forum who think the same way) just don't have the social clout to actually do it. Yet.

But when the time comes I know you will. If not you personally, then one of the other plural "yous". Because that's what people who appoint themselves moral arbiters always do when they get into power. And my principle is to oppose people like you.

Have fun clutching your pearls behind a block while pretending that rhetorical jabs and reasoned disagreements with specific points you could refute (if you had logical arguments for your positions, as opposed to just feels and moral grandstanding) are somehow attempts to "silence" you.

*I eagerly await the nitpicking over this copy pasted definition to point out that you don't even have the power to "prohibit" anything and waffle about whether coercing people into self-censorship through shame and social stigma counts as "suppression" (it does, but I know you think it doesn't). If any of you even has the balls to attempt to refute this.

No, I just want people to have an informed choice.  You don't, because you want my complaints censored.  See, if vocal disagreement and disapproval inevitably leads to censorship, then you are as guilty as we are.  So your logic rests on the truly woke manta, "It's ok when we do it"...

(https://i.imgur.com/X8PlEU9.jpg)

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:43:58 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 10:34:46 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Except that you aren't just passively expressing a position to the "vociferous" protests of posters objecting for no reason, but making yourself a moral arbiter while implicitly deputizing everyone to your cause and taking a fundamentally adversarial stance against anyone who disagrees by declaring them Degenerates!™ and "part of the problem". Then pretending that opposition somehow proves your point, while failing to demonstrate the existence of the problem, or to refute people's points.

All you have are slippery slopes, circular reasoning and moral grandstanding. While espousing literal BITCH and SJW strategies, like engaging shame and social stigma in lieu of overt force or reasoned arguments. Which are typically the tools of catty women (i.e. "bitches"), and SJWs, as well as puritans and church ladies (but I repeat myself).

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:50:04 PMYou don't understand, by criticizing the degeneracy openly (in their minds) you're "de facto" calling for censorship, they know because they can read our minds.

Just like ignoring assholes is the same as cancelling someone.

It's why they insist on the "muh satanic panic" bullshit. They KNOW we're not asking for censorship (because we've said so and because we would be calling for it elsewhere where it could maybe gain some traction), they KNOW it's not a moral panic, but we must either celebrate the degeneracy or at the very least remain silent.

Lest others discover how utterly disgusting the new hotness is.

Sorry, but no random asshole in the internet is going to silence me.

On the other hand they can furiously type in all caps at me all they want, I'm not reading their drivel.

No. We know because it IS de facto censorship. No mind reading necessary. The ultimate goal and end result if you had your way is the same regardless. You just don't have the balls to call it censorship and you have too much cognitive dissonance to realize that's what it ultimately comes down to. You just want it removed through some miraculous process that magically drives it out of existence without you actually calling for censorship. But this is ultimately about censorship, because that is what the "suppression or prohibition* of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene (or "Degenerate!™"), politically unacceptable, or a threat to security" is (Google definition of censorship).

It might not be overt censorship. And you might rationalize it as some "soft power" bullshit trying to get people to self-censor through social stigma and shame (totally not SJW tactics, by the way). But it's ultimately about censorship. You (the plural "you", including all the people outside this forum who think the same way) just don't have the social clout to actually do it. Yet.

But when the time comes I know you will. If not you personally, then one of the other plural "yous". Because that's what people who appoint themselves moral arbiters always do when they get into power. And my principle is to oppose people like you.

Have fun clutching your pearls behind a block while pretending that rhetorical jabs and reasoned disagreements with specific points you could refute (if you had logical arguments for your positions, as opposed to just feels and moral grandstanding) are somehow attempts to "silence" you.

*I eagerly await the nitpicking over this copy pasted definition to point out that you don't even have the power to "prohibit" anything and waffle about whether coercing people into self-censorship through shame and social stigma counts as "suppression" (it does, but I know you think it doesn't). If any of you even has the balls to attempt to refute this.

No, I just want people to have an informed choice.  You don't, because you want my complaints censored.  See, if vocal disagreement and disapproval inevitably leads to censorship, then you are as guilty as we are.  So your logic rests on the truly woke manta, "It's ok when we do it"...

Calling your pearl-clutching sentiments stupid and counter-productive isn't calling for censorship. It's calling your ideas stupid and counter-productive.

I happen to agree with these elements being things I find morally repulsive. However I also know that scolding like a self-righteous church lady never converted a single soul... its performative virtue signaling to let everyone know how moral you are.

If you want to productively oppose these things you need to offer real alternatives... for an example, take a look at "The Sound of Freedom" which is presenting the alternative viewpoint to the mainstream and is killing it in theatres. Look at "The Chosen" which is quality Biblically-based drama whose first season had over 300 million viewers and is entirely crowdfunded.

People are STARVING for quality entertainment options as the entertainment industry continues its self-immolation. But instead of pushing for those quality alternatives, you're too busy screaming about what is wrong rather than trying to make it right.

You're a Pharisee. "Look how good and righteous I am. Why should I have to get my hands dirty trying to make the world better?"

And I agree with so many others... Why is there not a single word of disgust directed at the fact that you can swear your soul to Asmodeus in the game?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:43:58 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 10:34:46 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2023, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 06:57:14 PM

You are the one complaining that the window of socially acceptable behavior has been shifting toward degeneracy, yet you conveniently refuse to accept that the window you prefer would be seen as degenerate to other societies/cultures.

But, you see, I don't care what those other cultures find degenerate.  I'm not some cultural relativist who has tied their moral values to the stupid notion that all cultures are equal.  They aren't.  The previous "window" of behavioral expectations have led to the most prosperous society in human history.  That is not guaranteed... in fact it is almost certainly exceptionally fragile.  And sexual degeneracy is highly correlated with the decline of societies (Camille Paglia has some excellent books and videos on the topic).

I have a set of principles, and I'm not going to suddenly throw them out the window because some random guy cooking over a dung fire in Botswana declares something haram.  You obviously have them as well (though only you know how willing to compromise those you are).  Apparently many of the other folks on this thread don't, or else they would be willing to respect those that do.

I am a great believer in "soft" power.  The power of shame, social stigma, and speaking out against degeneracy.  Unlike government power (or woke cancelling of people's jobs or bank accounts), if you believe in something strongly enough, the only thing you need to do is ignore the people who are telling you that you are wrong.  But, like all leftists, the degenerates are unwilling to even hear that others disapprove.  They must silence or censor.  I don't need anyone to ban the game.  I just want people to know it contains some sick stuff.  Knowledge is power (which is why so many want us to shut up).

I've done nothing on this thread but point out that this game promotes degeneracy by presenting gay bestiality in a positive light (I've never called for any censorship).  Note how vociferous the objections have been, just to my doing so.  If you disagree with me, you're free to say so.  But that hasn't been the response.  I expect the dismissiveness from the Europeans on this board (they've certainly slipped much farther down the path of degeneracy and cultural irrelevance.. with resounding applause from their populations).  But Americans are destroying the very culture that has made this country unique.  And when this cultural rot becomes a frequent component of even our hobbies... well, it's well past time to be objecting...

Except that you aren't just passively expressing a position to the "vociferous" protests of posters objecting for no reason, but making yourself a moral arbiter while implicitly deputizing everyone to your cause and taking a fundamentally adversarial stance against anyone who disagrees by declaring them Degenerates!™ and "part of the problem". Then pretending that opposition somehow proves your point, while failing to demonstrate the existence of the problem, or to refute people's points.

All you have are slippery slopes, circular reasoning and moral grandstanding. While espousing literal BITCH and SJW strategies, like engaging shame and social stigma in lieu of overt force or reasoned arguments. Which are typically the tools of catty women (i.e. "bitches"), and SJWs, as well as puritans and church ladies (but I repeat myself).

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:50:04 PMYou don't understand, by criticizing the degeneracy openly (in their minds) you're "de facto" calling for censorship, they know because they can read our minds.

Just like ignoring assholes is the same as cancelling someone.

It's why they insist on the "muh satanic panic" bullshit. They KNOW we're not asking for censorship (because we've said so and because we would be calling for it elsewhere where it could maybe gain some traction), they KNOW it's not a moral panic, but we must either celebrate the degeneracy or at the very least remain silent.

Lest others discover how utterly disgusting the new hotness is.

Sorry, but no random asshole in the internet is going to silence me.

On the other hand they can furiously type in all caps at me all they want, I'm not reading their drivel.

No. We know because it IS de facto censorship. No mind reading necessary. The ultimate goal and end result if you had your way is the same regardless. You just don't have the balls to call it censorship and you have too much cognitive dissonance to realize that's what it ultimately comes down to. You just want it removed through some miraculous process that magically drives it out of existence without you actually calling for censorship. But this is ultimately about censorship, because that is what the "suppression or prohibition* of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene (or "Degenerate!™"), politically unacceptable, or a threat to security" is (Google definition of censorship).

It might not be overt censorship. And you might rationalize it as some "soft power" bullshit trying to get people to self-censor through social stigma and shame (totally not SJW tactics, by the way). But it's ultimately about censorship. You (the plural "you", including all the people outside this forum who think the same way) just don't have the social clout to actually do it. Yet.

But when the time comes I know you will. If not you personally, then one of the other plural "yous". Because that's what people who appoint themselves moral arbiters always do when they get into power. And my principle is to oppose people like you.

Have fun clutching your pearls behind a block while pretending that rhetorical jabs and reasoned disagreements with specific points you could refute (if you had logical arguments for your positions, as opposed to just feels and moral grandstanding) are somehow attempts to "silence" you.

*I eagerly await the nitpicking over this copy pasted definition to point out that you don't even have the power to "prohibit" anything and waffle about whether coercing people into self-censorship through shame and social stigma counts as "suppression" (it does, but I know you think it doesn't). If any of you even has the balls to attempt to refute this.

No, I just want people to have an informed choice.  You don't, because you want my complaints censored.  See, if vocal disagreement and disapproval inevitably leads to censorship, then you are as guilty as we are.  So your logic rests on the truly woke manta, "It's ok when we do it"...

"Criticism is Censorship" VisionStorm 2023

Oh dear!

But I am the one acting like an SJW right!?

Zelen's meme says it all.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:43:58 AM
No, I just want people to have an informed choice.

Informed?? Have you even played the game?? (I won't ask "and finished it" out of sheer pity).

The character I'm playing is ready to practice sodomization - with her red-hot sword - on the poor bear. I would be disappointed if the game doesn't allow this.

Quote
You don't, because you want my complaints censored.

No, what I want is for your complaints to be based on facts, real knowledge, motivated and stopping at "here are MY complaints."

Pro tip: next time, avoid insulting A WHOLE CONTINENT. It may help.

Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

I started playing the game. I got to see a penis and a vagina and pick and choose whatever i want combined with whatever voice I wanted and I'm having a blast playing it.

I have yet to fuck an animal and if people are telling me that my tiefling is gonna have sexytimes with a githyanki and call that Furry Fucking I'm gonna point right on back to Mass Effect and tell them to get off their high horse. Commander Shepard doesn't give a fuck.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:43:58 AM
No, I just want people to have an informed choice.

What does an "informed choice" mean to you?
Because you've consistantly referred to game as promoting "bestiality," which is tentatively true, at best. You know it isn't a natural animal, but a magically transformed person. Your framing of the argument as the game containing "bestiality" is a purposeful obfuscation of the whole truth. It's a lie of omission, designed to make your position sound more reasonable than others. This is the opposite of allowing someone to make an informed choice.

QuoteYou don't, because you want my complaints censored.  See, if vocal disagreement and disapproval inevitably leads to censorship, then you are as guilty as we are.  So your logic rests on the truly woke manta, "It's ok when we do it"...

Who's calling for you to be censored? I've only seen people criticise you for using low-handed methods. Isn't that the kind of soft power you encourage? Shame and ridicule? Unless you are agreeing that social pressure is a form of censorship...

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Okay... I got an image in my head. What now?

Quote from: Effete on August 08, 2023, 01:46:40 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Okay... I got an image in my head. What now?

You are now going to be burnt at the state for WrongBadThink

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Why? We've got Reckall.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
I started playing the game. I got to see a penis and a vagina and pick and choose whatever i want combined with whatever voice I wanted and I'm having a blast playing it.

I have yet to fuck an animal and if people are telling me that my tiefling is gonna have sexytimes with a githyanki and call that Furry Fucking I'm gonna point right on back to Mass Effect and tell them to get off their high horse. Commander Shepard doesn't give a fuck.

And people wonder why video games don't interest me......

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 08, 2023, 02:45:03 PM
And people wonder why video games don't interest me......

   My video gaming experience has been pretty Nintendo-centric, especially with Castlevania dead (and turned into an undead horror by the animated series :) ), Final Fantasy having gone far afield, and Dragon Quest only coming out in the US once a decade or so. :) Threads like this make me grateful for that fact.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 08, 2023, 02:43:45 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Why? We've got Reckall.

Uh? I thought that those pictures were... er... encrypted...

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 08, 2023, 02:45:03 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
I started playing the game. I got to see a penis and a vagina and pick and choose whatever i want combined with whatever voice I wanted and I'm having a blast playing it.

I have yet to fuck an animal and if people are telling me that my tiefling is gonna have sexytimes with a githyanki and call that Furry Fucking I'm gonna point right on back to Mass Effect and tell them to get off their high horse. Commander Shepard doesn't give a fuck.

And people wonder why video games don't interest me......

I barely play video games anymore. I have many hundreds of games on Steam and GOG, but I don't feel inclined to play. Even nostalgic games from my childhood don't interest me.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 08, 2023, 03:03:26 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 08, 2023, 02:45:03 PM
And people wonder why video games don't interest me......

   My video gaming experience has been pretty Nintendo-centric, especially with Castlevania dead (and turned into an undead horror by the animated series :) ), Final Fantasy having gone far afield, and Dragon Quest only coming out in the US once a decade or so. :) Threads like this make me grateful for that fact.

Oh, that's just sour grapes. There are tons of video games out there that don't give a shit about woke-tard screeches and tears.

Try Conan Exiles. It's very close to the source material. You can run around naked and enthrall your savage neighbors.

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 03:34:58 PM
Try Conan Exiles. It's very close to the source material. You can run around naked and enthrall your savage neighbors.

but can you run around naked and...ahem...enthrall a bear??

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

WTF I love Doom3D!

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 08, 2023, 02:45:03 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
I started playing the game. I got to see a penis and a vagina and pick and choose whatever i want combined with whatever voice I wanted and I'm having a blast playing it.

I have yet to fuck an animal and if people are telling me that my tiefling is gonna have sexytimes with a githyanki and call that Furry Fucking I'm gonna point right on back to Mass Effect and tell them to get off their high horse. Commander Shepard doesn't give a fuck.

And people wonder why video games don't interest me......

It's Character creation screen. Koreans do the barbie doll simulator 1000x better than the West.  I honestly didn't need the gential options to see that in my game, that is ridiuclous into and of itself but hey, it's there, do whatever you want.

I know this is about the interation with the polymorphed druid who is now a bear that you can have sex with.

I've found what the whole point in the outrage over  Optional content and a side quest, this looks like making a mountain out of a molehill. Polymorph is a spell, Curses are a thing, bad things happen and the PC has difficult choices to make.   

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:43:58 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 10:34:46 AM
*snip*

No, I just want people to have an informed choice.  You don't, because you want my complaints censored.  See, if vocal disagreement and disapproval inevitably leads to censorship, then you are as guilty as we are.  So your logic rests on the truly woke manta, "It's ok when we do it"...

Except that reasoned disagreements with specific points you have yet to refute (but could if you actually bothered to engage them rather than continue reasserting your bullshit points and intellectually dishonest framing of this game's  content) are not the same thing as complaints that something you personally don't like merely exists, but you think it shouldn't, and that everyone else is morally obligated to join you in your complaints...or else (what you're actually doing in this discussion). One of them is a disagreement that could potentially shut you up if actually agree with my reasoning (slim chance), and the other one is moral grandstanding that seeks to make content you don't like go away. So it isn't quite the same thing (but at least you're tacitly admitting to wanting censorship just to rope me in and hang me with my own logic, so we're making progress).

Just like this game doesn't quite include any "positive depictions of bestiality" either, despite your (plural "your") repeated attempts to declare that it does, like turning it into a mantra will make it so. This game has a COMICAL, toss away sex scene between FICTIONAL supernatural humanoid characters, where one of them happens to be a shapeshifter. And you have the OPTION—in a SIDE QUEST—to dig through MULTIPLE dialog options to have those characters have sex, with one of them shapeshifted into a bear.

That is not the same thing as "this game contains positive depictions" or "promotions of bestiality". A COMICAL scene where the punchline is to laugh AT (not "with") something is not a "positive depiction" of that thing. It's MOCKERY. And an obscure scene in a side quest you have to specifically dig through multiple dialog options to even find isn't "promoting" that shit either. You have to dig in a portion of the game that isn't even part of the main content to even find it. And then you have to CLICK on it, as opposed to any of the other options.

And as others have pointed out that isn't even the worse thing morally speaking in this or ANY other game with similar content. There are numerous games (not just this one) where you get to make deals with demonic entities, steal, maim and murder, collect body parts and shit, etc. Yet you, me and no one else on this forum has ever BITCHED about them because we know that these are FICTIONAL acts in a video game. That you can easily ignore, as I do almost every single time that I run into such options, with the rare exception of stealing in-game shit (which is basically a victimless crime, often with few in-game consequences) or very rarely murdering NPCs out of morbid curiosity (if there's some sort of "evil" quest involved), or cuz they pissed me off, so I kill them once, then reload my last save.

But you have lashed on to this one, as far as I can tell, due to novelty (murdering, stealing and striking deals with demons in video games is passe at this point, but fucking a SHAPESHIFTED bear is new and unusual) and the fact that this is the current Two Minutes Hate on this Right-Wing SJW forum. So you need to have your moral grandstanding fix, cuz why else would you post here?

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM
Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

Do people support those things? Or do they exist in games and are treated as bad/wrong/evil? Just curious.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 03:47:21 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

WTF I love Doom3D!

Because Doom is about worshipping demons, commiting murder and genocide... Have you ever played the damn thing?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 05:24:32 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 03:47:21 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

WTF I love Doom3D!

Because Doom is about worshipping demons, commiting murder and genocide... Have you ever played the damn thing?

Doom is absolutely about committing murder on a scale of epic level, murder of demons and the genocide of the whole demon 'race'.    Worshipping demons is in the game but not spelled out this is something the Doom Guy does, he kills demons, devils, and all things Bad.

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 05:14:49 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM
Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

Do people support those things? Or do they exist in games and are treated as bad/wrong/evil? Just curious.

In a lot of games you can choose an "evil" path. In fantasy games this usually ranges from being the Black Knight, to necromancy, to demon worshipping. However, these contents also exist for the player to choose another path, refuse them and even actively fight them. As I said earlier, if the only choice is "good" there is no merit in being good.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 05:37:16 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 05:24:32 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 03:47:21 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 01:18:46 PM
Imagine supporting bestiality in a videogame.

Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

WTF I love Doom3D!

Because Doom is about worshipping demons, commiting murder and genocide... Have you ever played the damn thing?

Doom is absolutely about committing murder on a scale of epic level, murder of demons and the genocide of the whole demon 'race'.    Worshipping demons is in the game but not spelled out this is something the Doom Guy does, he kills demons, devils, and all things Bad.

Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. So you're wrong.
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. So you're wrong again.

And for the killing blow:

In Doom is worshipping demons portrayed as something good?

Doom guy is killing hordes of invaders intent on exterminating or enslaving the humans. Guess you also think that in Starship Troopers the humans are the bad guys...

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 05:14:49 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 02:23:53 PM
Imagine supporting murder, worshiping demons, and genocide in video games.

Do people support those things? Or do they exist in games and are treated as bad/wrong/evil? Just curious.

So, just like this shapeshifted bear sex scene? Only this one is a single toss away scene in a side quest in one game, while all that other stuff is standard, and actually a key part of the story/action in some games.

In the GTA and the Saints Row series you get to steal people's cars then run them over and everyone else in the vicinity with it. And you even get rewarded for it. Granted, the cops may come after you as well, but that's part of the fun with those games.

Forget BG3, there's a game where one of the characters (he's like a god) turns into various animals and rapes mortal women. There's also an entire animal-like race that is basically nothing more than a gang of drunken sex criminals who frequently engage in rape and bestiality. Also one of the kings in the game was born from a discarded cloth that wiped up the "mess" caused by a god who tried to rape his sister (a goddess). Worst of all, this game is played openly in many institutions of higher learning!!!!

Oh wait, I messed up. It's not a game, it's the mythology of ancient Greece, the birthplace of western culture. Greek mythology is also a big donor to D&D and other games.

I get that some of you don't like to see a favourite game series degenerate into unrecognizable territory, but a druid bear having gay sex with a vampire is not worthy of all the pearl clutching that's going on here.

I've always argued that topics like slavery, racism, sexism, etc. are fine in RPGs because these topics are part of history, RPGs have historical antecedents, and it's just a game anyway. By the same token, weird sex stuff should be fine in RPGs because this topic is part of mythology, RPGs have mythological antecedents, and it's just a game anyway.

Now, if you don't want that in your RPG, then don't play BG3. Screeds about how this is the most degenerate thing ever is just moral cherry picking (unless y'all are only playing DragonRaid or something).

So if I murder a prostitute after having sex with her to get my money back in GTA, is that morally permissible because it's in the game? Is the bestiality in BG3 okay because people in real life have sexual fetishes for animals? Not quite sure I understand the logic here. If you are playing a historical game and buy slaves, does that mean slavery is okay since you're engaging in the behavior virtually?

The Greek gods are considered petty psychopathic rapists and mass murderers by modern audiences who read the original uncensored writing.

I'll also observe that the so-called rationalists here who are arguing with all their fully-erect might for beastiality, necrophilia, and every other deranged and disgusting behavior ("In fiction! - Only in fiction!") don't seem to have any problem at all with game developers expending considerable effort on producing fringe-sexuality content in games.

I know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 08:21:58 PM
So if I murder a prostitute after having sex with her to get my money back in GTA, is that morally permissible because it's in the game? Is the bestiality in BG3 okay because people in real life have sexual fetishes for animals? Not quite sure I understand the logic here. If you are playing a historical game and buy slaves, does that mean slavery is okay since you're engaging in the behavior virtually?

I'm not sure I follow you. The logic is simple: the real player and the imaginary character are different.

Have you never played a character whose morality is different from your own?

Quote from: Zelen on August 08, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I'll also observe that the so-called rationalists here who are arguing with all their fully-erect might for beastiality, necrophilia, and every other deranged and disgusting behavior ("In fiction! - Only in fiction!") don't seem to have any problem at all with game developers expending considerable effort on producing fringe-sexuality content in games.

I know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

The voice acting, CGI videos, graphics, all rival any AAA game that has been released. This is a GOTY contender and reminiscint of the old BG games and very much like a Bioware game of old. I'm through Act I and it's a fun game overall and looking forward to more.

The 'Furry Controversy' is a concern for some but for those of us that grew up with KOTR and Mass Effect, two franchises you could bang aliens (OMG NON-HUMAN SEX0r?!?!) not a goddamn eyebrow was raised and 0 fucks were given. You can choose to engage with sexy times or ignore it, your call.

The tens of thousands of dollars they spent on a side quest , and the 10min of total dialogue and Voice Acting, for you to bang a grizzly is pittance compared to the opening scene of the Illithid nautalus ship being blasted to bits by red dragons.   

Mt Everest out of an ant hill.  Go yell at clouds FFS.

Quote from: Zelen on August 08, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I'll also observe that the so-called rationalists here who are arguing with all their fully-erect might for beastiality, necrophilia, and every other deranged and disgusting behavior ("In fiction! - Only in fiction!") don't seem to have any problem at all with game developers expending considerable effort on producing fringe-sexuality content in games.

I know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

Yeah, so in a free market with free speech, people can make and sell things that you and I might not like. The woke often bleat on and on about how this is not right and how things should be controlled to ensure that no one is offended.

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:11:36 PM
Yeah, so in a free market with free speech, people can make and sell things that you and I might not like. The woke often bleat on and on about how this is not right and how things should be controlled to ensure that no one is offended.

I find the difference between the far right and the far left is normally just the key words. The rhetoric is fucking identical.

Most of these moral guardian fucks are just SJWs who've traded their LGQT+ pins for MAGA hats.

Quote from: Zelen on August 08, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I'll also observe that the so-called rationalists here who are arguing with all their fully-erect might for beastiality, necrophilia, and every other deranged and disgusting behavior ("In fiction! - Only in fiction!") don't seem to have any problem at all with game developers expending considerable effort on producing fringe-sexuality content in games.

You sound like a 1990s church mom having a psychotic break about Doom and Mortal Kombat.

"These games are going to turn Little Timmy into a murderous satan worshiper who rips out peoples' hearts! BAAAHHHAAA!"

Freedom of Speech cuts both ways. You get to say what you want, other people get to say what they want. And if what they want is to do a cringe ass Bear Druid on Elf Vampire sex scene for shits and giggles, well, that's how this Freedom of Speech thing works. Because once you get the censorship ball rolling, eventually someone else is going to turn it against you.

So how about you stop clutching your pearls and learn to adult.

QuoteI know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

Animating a scene like that doesn't cost millions.

And considering the fact they have basically every RPG studio screaming in terror like an Alderani civilian and claiming it's not fair to use BG3 as a standard of RPG production quality, I'll go so far as to say BG3 is plenty fine in the game mechanics, storylines, and voice acting department.

*snickers*

Be a shame if someone were to alert you ladies to the existence of Subverse. Your heads would probably explode.  8)

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 08, 2023, 09:03:56 PM

Mt Everest out of an ant hill.  Go yell at clouds FFS.

But how else will the Social Regression Warriors here be able to justify their existences if they have nothing to complain about?

Quote from: Brad on August 08, 2023, 08:21:58 PMIf you are playing a historical game and buy slaves, does that mean slavery is okay since you're engaging in the behavior virtually?

No, but it does mean that YOU personally are 100% OK with slavery and are dying to engage in human trafficking IRL, because you once did it in a virtual environment while playing a fictional character that's not you in a game, according to the people hyperventilating about a shapeshifted bear sex scene here.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
No, but it does mean that YOU personally are 100% OK with slavery and are dying to engage in human trafficking IRL, because you once did it in a virtual environment while playing a fictional character that's not you in a game, according to the people hyperventilating about a shapeshifted bear sex scene here.

*looks at his copy Mount and Blade*

Hans, am I the baddie?

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
No, but it does mean that YOU personally are 100% OK with slavery and are dying to engage in human trafficking IRL, because you once did it in a virtual environment while playing a fictional character that's not you in a game, according to the people hyperventilating about a shapeshifted bear sex scene here.

*looks at his copy Mount and Blade*

Hans, am I the baddie?

LOL.

I think I'll play a thief this campaign.

Thou shalt not steal!

Oh, yeah. I guess I could play a paladin...again.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 09:17:49 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:11:36 PM
Yeah, so in a free market with free speech, people can make and sell things that you and I might not like. The woke often bleat on and on about how this is not right and how things should be controlled to ensure that no one is offended.

I find the difference between the far right and the far left is normally just the key words. The rhetoric is fucking identical.

Most of these moral guardian fucks are just SJWs who've traded their LGQT+ pins for MAGA hats.

The main difference between the so-called "left" and the "right" is that one of them gets propped up, defended, lionized and excused by the lamestream media, and the other one gets the complete polar opposite treatment while being silenced, censored and misrepresented. So the one that gets propped up gets to have their way and do what they want out in the open, while the other one is suppressed and forced to pay lip service to "free speech" cuz they actually need it right now. But if the "right" were the ones being propped up, they'd be the same, only pushing conservative flavored tyranny.

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:11:36 PM

Quote from: Zelen on August 08, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I'll also observe that the so-called rationalists here who are arguing with all their fully-erect might for beastiality, necrophilia, and every other deranged and disgusting behavior ("In fiction! - Only in fiction!") don't seem to have any problem at all with game developers expending considerable effort on producing fringe-sexuality content in games.

I know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

Yeah, so in a free market with free speech, people can make and sell things that you and I might not like. The woke often bleat on and on about how this is not right and how things should be controlled to ensure that no one is offended.

Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:50:17 PM
I think I'll play a thief this campaign.

Thou shalt not steal!

Oh, yeah. I guess I could play a paladin...again.

Funny story, a friend of mine once unwittingly joined an online game entirely populated by off-duty cops. They were not enthusiastic about his thief character...

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:50:17 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 08, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
No, but it does mean that YOU personally are 100% OK with slavery and are dying to engage in human trafficking IRL, because you once did it in a virtual environment while playing a fictional character that's not you in a game, according to the people hyperventilating about a shapeshifted bear sex scene here.

*looks at his copy Mount and Blade*

Hans, am I the baddie?

LOL.

I think I'll play a thief this campaign.

Thou shalt not steal!

Oh, yeah. I guess I could play a paladin...again.

Back in the early 2000s I used to get together with my coworker buddies after work to play RTS games, and when we played Command & Conquer: Generals my go to army was the GLA, which were modeled after Jihadi terrorists. That means that deep down I want to shave off my body hair, hijack an airplane, then yell "Death to America!" as I fly it into a building.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 08, 2023, 09:54:05 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 08, 2023, 09:50:17 PM
I think I'll play a thief this campaign.

Thou shalt not steal!

Oh, yeah. I guess I could play a paladin...again.

Funny story, a friend of mine once unwittingly joined an online game entirely populated by off-duty cops. They were not enthusiastic about his thief character...

"Fine, I'll play my secondary character. He's a pig farmer."

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

You "informed others" that THE WHOLE POPULATION OF EUROPE is composed by degenerates. Don't be surprised if your "attempts to inform" are taken with a bit of salt.

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 01:23:58 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

You "informed others" that THE WHOLE POPULATION OF EUROPE is composed by degenerates. Don't be surprised if your "attempts to inform" are taken with a bit of salt.

Citation Needed, I'm afraid this is just ANOTHER lie being propagated by you and your "enlightened Centrist tm" ilk.

FFS I shouldn't have clicked on your post, don't worry it won't happen again, so you'll be able to lie about me to your heart's content unless someone else quotes your lies.

Now go fuck yourself.

Quote from: Zelen on August 08, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I know from my own experience that Larian have spent millions of dollars on development of this type of content, rather than on better game mechanics, voice acting, storylines, and so on. Noted how little effort is spent on arguing for those, rather than for whatever this shit is.

Larian made the conscious choice to invest time and money to reach a more ample public. As I wrote earlier, BG3 is "inclusive" in the original, positive, sense of the word: everyone is welcome, nothing is forc...

(sees Geeky streaking from left to right screaming about "DEGENERATES!!!")

...And nothing is forced upon the player, I was saying. This strategy has been proven right if the numbers we are seeing are real (it is apparently on the top 10 of the most successful games on Steam ever - and we still are waiting for the PS5 and native M1 Mac versions, due this september).

Having said that, the amount of content in BG3 is unreal. I could even point how, personally, I consider "too much character's choices" a problem of the game - as I'll play it maybe twice or three times and it is impossible to even scratch the surface of the character's creation part.

My impression is that Larian will use BG3 as a "base product" - with more adventures, areas and contents to come for years - a bit like Skyrim. We will see.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 01:51:33 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 01:23:58 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

You "informed others" that THE WHOLE POPULATION OF EUROPE is composed by degenerates. Don't be surprised if your "attempts to inform" are taken with a bit of salt.

Citation Needed, I'm afraid this is just ANOTHER lie being propagated by you and your "enlightened Centrist tm" ilk.

FFS I shouldn't have clicked on your post, don't worry it won't happen again, so you'll be able to lie about me to your heart's content unless someone else quotes your lies.

Now go fuck yourself.

Why?! I'm not a bear... :o

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 02:29:58 AMWhy?! I'm not a bear... :o

Is part of the objection to the game that it would encourage furries to attempt to fuck actual bears?

Because, frankly, that would be funny as fuck. I'd sign up to pay-per-view to watch the subsequent mauling of pervs in animal suits by pissed off grizzlies!

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 09, 2023, 02:39:13 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 02:29:58 AMWhy?! I'm not a bear... :o

Is part of the objection to the game that it would encourage furries to attempt to fuck actual bears?

Because, frankly, that would be funny as fuck. I'd sign up to pay-per-view to watch the subsequent mauling of pervs in animal suits by pissed off grizzlies!

So he avoided providing any proof of what he says about me and went for "Teh funny tm"?

Why I'm not surprized that the "intellectual & Enlightened Centrist tm" would blatantly lie, thinking I won't see it and when called out he plays dumb?

Why can't I have for once an intellectually challenging adversary?

These assholes are as smart as the Flatearthers. And equally dishonest.

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 09, 2023, 02:39:13 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 02:29:58 AMWhy?! I'm not a bear... :o

Is part of the objection to the game that it would encourage furries to attempt to fuck actual bears?

Honestly, if this were actually the case, shouldn't we be ENCOURAGING more bear sex in games. If it actually movitated weirdoes to try it IRL, seems like the problem would correct itself.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 02:53:49 AM

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 09, 2023, 02:39:13 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 02:29:58 AMWhy?! I'm not a bear... :o

Is part of the objection to the game that it would encourage furries to attempt to fuck actual bears?

Because, frankly, that would be funny as fuck. I'd sign up to pay-per-view to watch the subsequent mauling of pervs in animal suits by pissed off grizzlies!

So he avoided providing any proof of what he says about me and went for "Teh funny tm"?

Why I'm not surprized that the "intellectual & Enlightened Centrist tm" would blatantly lie, thinking I won't see it and when called out he plays dumb?

Why can't I have for once an intellectually challenging adversary?

These assholes are as smart as the Flatearthers. And equally dishonest.

To be fair pal, I saw the cheap laugh opportunity and took it too

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 02:53:49 AM

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 09, 2023, 02:39:13 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 02:29:58 AMWhy?! I'm not a bear... :o

Is part of the objection to the game that it would encourage furries to attempt to fuck actual bears?

Because, frankly, that would be funny as fuck. I'd sign up to pay-per-view to watch the subsequent mauling of pervs in animal suits by pissed off grizzlies!

So he avoided providing any proof of what he says about me and went for "Teh funny tm"?

Geeky, you lost the moral right to have answers the moment you showed how "an answer I don't like doesn't exist". I have better ways to spend my time - including having fun.

BTW:

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 01:51:33 AM
FFS I shouldn't have clicked on your post, don't worry it won't happen again

—> Proceeds to do it again immediately...

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 01:51:33 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 01:23:58 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

You "informed others" that THE WHOLE POPULATION OF EUROPE is composed by degenerates. Don't be surprised if your "attempts to inform" are taken with a bit of salt.

Citation Needed, I'm afraid this is just ANOTHER lie being propagated by you and your "enlightened Centrist tm" ilk.

FFS I shouldn't have clicked on your post, don't worry it won't happen again, so you'll be able to lie about me to your heart's content unless someone else quotes your lies.

Now go fuck yourself.

>Constantly accuses other people of "lying"
>Consistently ignores the tone of and WTF has actually been said in the thread
>LIES about this thread being merely to "inform" people of shit when we've literally been dealing with accusations of being into bestiality for the last 10 pages or so

Yes, Eirikrautha mentioned something about expecting opposition to this topic from European posters cuz Europe had fallen to DEGENERACY!™, but that he didn't expect so much from 'Murican posters as well.

No, I'm not gonna go look for the post for your lazy histrionic hypersensitive lying ass, cuz it was a bunch of pages ago and you're just gonna ignore it anyway. So I'm not gonna waste time digging. But literally EVERY. SINGLE. CLAIM. that the opposition in this thread has said about what others have said at least tangentially true (if perhaps exaggerated, not 100% accurate or subject to interpretation at times).

This isn't about "informing" people of the evil Degenerate!™ ways of Larian, you fucking LIAR (you LIE). This is about having a histrionic fit and basking in your Two Minutes Hate while lashing out at anyone who disagrees and accusing them of shit while adamantly IGNORING and REFUSING to address the actual points that they make. Like good Right-Wing SJWs would.

Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

It is a measure implemented to avoid (natural) streaks of good or bad dice rolls. Streaks are part of a branch of statistics called "Cluster Theory" which explains, for example, why all of sudden there are planes crashing all over the world, or why a certain generation has a big number of creative minds while another one can't produce a line on a piece of paper.

The basic explanation is simple: imagine the usual urn with 1000 white balls and 100 black ones. You pull out a ball at the time and create a line of 1,100 balls.

Common sense would think that you have a black ball every 10 white ones. However, if you look at the line, you discover that the black balls appear to be concentrated in groups - called "clusters". This because, due to the randomness of the extraction, some black balls come out before 10 white ones, while others came out maybe after 12-15 white ones. The result is that they end up grouped together.

Cluster theory is interesting because it can be applied to many common things. Our very lives do seem to have periods of bad luck followed by periods of good one. Social sciences point out to "resonance": a lot of good artist create a climate where their talents are helped by each other and the general positive cultural moment (everyone is the "rabbit" that others chase in their own way). Good artists amid a draught lack role-models, the ability to understand that "we can do more" (because others do), and they risks of feeling "lost" because none is pointing to new ways to do things.

Anyway, in almost every RPG there are moments when the dice are "hot" and moments when they "hate you". Karmic Dice is a way to break these streaks (for the enemies too). IMHO, true D&D is made of streaks. As it happens, Karmic Dice can be turned off in BG3 in any moment - including before the start of game proper (I still think that the tutorial is a bit fixed but that's understandable). I don't know if other games use this system.

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

Video Games cheat, been happening since the dawn of Digital Time, go play any 80s and 90s arcade game, "cheating" is built into the code to make it so you spend more quarters.   

Modern Video games do this quite often, example Destiny 2, where if you participate in end game content the chance you have of getting an exotic weapon increases by a mysterious number every time you do the event until you actually get the item.  The rolls become padded so eventually you are bound to get said item due to the numerical increases added for every play through.

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

It IS very common in video games, at least those that rely on internal checks (ex. many rpgs and mmos) instead of player skill (first-person shooters), though I've only heard it called a "streak-breaker" and not "karmic dice" (which it's kinda the opposite of since with karma good things are supposed to yield good things, not lead to bad things as a balance.

One example of a Streakbreaker is in City of Heroes where, depending on your accuracy after a certain number of misses the streakbreaker triggers and lands a hit. It takes three misses in a row if your accuracy is 75% for it to trigger and at 20% accuracy requires 100 misses in a row before it triggers.

It also resets after it triggers so even with 75% accuracy if the RNG is running against you could only land 25% of your attacks and even at max accuracy if the RNG isn't in your favor you'll be missing every other attack.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 07:02:38 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 01:51:33 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 01:23:58 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 08, 2023, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah, so in a free society we get to criticize what we consider degenerate bullshit and vote with our dollar not buying such degenerate content, but apparently informing others that the game is full of degenerate filth is akin to killoing babies or something from the reactions of the enlightened centrists tm around here.

You "informed others" that THE WHOLE POPULATION OF EUROPE is composed by degenerates. Don't be surprised if your "attempts to inform" are taken with a bit of salt.

Citation Needed, I'm afraid this is just ANOTHER lie being propagated by you and your "enlightened Centrist tm" ilk.

FFS I shouldn't have clicked on your post, don't worry it won't happen again, so you'll be able to lie about me to your heart's content unless someone else quotes your lies.

Now go fuck yourself.

>Constantly accuses other people of "lying"
>Consistently ignores the tone of and WTF has actually been said in the thread
>LIES about this thread being merely to "inform" people of shit when we've literally been dealing with accusations of being into bestiality for the last 10 pages or so

Yes, Eirikrautha mentioned something about expecting opposition to this topic from European posters cuz Europe had fallen to DEGENERACY!™, but that he didn't expect so much from 'Murican posters as well.

No, I'm not gonna go look for the post for your lazy histrionic hypersensitive lying ass, cuz it was a bunch of pages ago and you're just gonna ignore it anyway. So I'm not gonna waste time digging. But literally EVERY. SINGLE. CLAIM. that the opposition in this thread has said about what others have said at least tangentially true (if perhaps exaggerated, not 100% accurate or subject to interpretation at times).

This isn't about "informing" people of the evil Degenerate!™ ways of Larian, you fucking LIAR (you LIE). This is about having a histrionic fit and basking in your Two Minutes Hate while lashing out at anyone who disagrees and accusing them of shit while adamantly IGNORING and REFUSING to address the actual points that they make. Like good Right-Wing SJWs would.

Translation: "Someone else did say (if we're to believe you and since you don't provide proof I don't) X therefore you said X"

Then proceeds to acuse me of lying after lying his ass off about me and the stuff I've said.

Either that or your delusion is to a point where you can't tell the difference between Eirikrautha and me, but since you mention him as a different entity than me then one should assume you're lying.

Just like Reckall (the other degenerate), you do nothing but lie.

Go fuck yourself.

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

Look up input-reading next. That'll REALLY piss you off.

In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
Look up input-reading next. That'll REALLY piss you off.

In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Because the writer thinks it's funny. All the excuse you need.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 12:18:20 PMTranslation: "Someone else did say (if we're to believe you and since you don't provide proof I don't) X therefore you said X"

Then proceeds to acuse me of lying after lying his ass off about me and the stuff I've said.

Either that or your delusion is to a point where you can't tell the difference between Eirikrautha and me, but since you mention him as a different entity than me then one should assume you're lying.

Just like Reckall (the other degenerate), you do nothing but lie.

Go fuck yourself.

OR, maybe there has been miscommunications as a result of the limits of language, varying perspectives between people and the nature of dealing with multi-page histrionic sperg outs in the forum debate. And you CHOOSE to interpret them as "lying" because you're a keyboard warrior who consistently nitpicks in order "win" internet arguments rather than attempt to charitably understand what the other persons is trying to say, and it benefits your narrative and your psychotic need to yell at imagined enemies everywhere.

When Reckall used the word "you" I assumed that he was speaking more generally about the plural "you", since this argument isn't only between "you" personally and him, but between two sides yelling at each other. And Eirikrautha has drop in to make his case (or at least reassert his position without refuting any arguments against over and over again) a LOT.

And the post is somewhere in this thread. Look for it, instead of popping to make claims or dismiss them without bothering to check what's been said.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 12:18:20 PM
Just like Reckall (the other degenerate), you do nothing but lie.

Right now I'am lying on the grass a "Les Invalides" in Paris - so, technically, Geeky is right.

Quote
Go fuck yourself.

Euh... Each other or everyone for themselves?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PMIn any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

You have yet to provide an argument why something needs to be justified in order to be included in a game. Why do jokes or humor need to be included in a game or story? Why does ANY type of customization need to be included in a game? Why does the wild-shape ability in any form need to be part of a game or story? Why do elves get the same range of skin tones as humans? Why does there have to be blondes? What does that add to the story or game play?

If merely lacking some type of reasoned justification is necessary in order to include anything in a game or a story, there's a LOT of stuff you would never been able to work into one, cuz there's no inherent logic to why any particular thing needs to be included. There might be reasons why including certain things doesn't make sense in a particular context, but that's a different deal that doesn't apply here. Because a druid having sex while wildshaped into a bear CAN happen in the game world without breaking verisimilitude.

And even if some type of justification was necessary on some level, I would think that "because it's (presumably/to some people at least) funny" and "it could happen in this game world" would be enough. Also, there are apparently scenes with nudity, which I guess it's what the genital customization is for.

The thing I think you're trying to ask, though, is "Why does SEX (of any type) need to be included in a D&D game (specifically)?" And even then I would say that I don't have any inherent problem with it and that the idea of sex isn't antithetical to D&D. But if people were to ask the question (which no one foaming at the mouth at the idea of bear sex specifically has bothered to ask) "Why does sex and customization of sex organs need to be included in a video game based on a TTRPG marketed at ages 12+?" THEN I would have to say, "I personally don't care and this isn't the TTRPG, but a video game using the same ruleset. But at the very least it seems like an odd choice."

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 02:29:12 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PMIn any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

You have yet to provide an argument why something needs to be justified in order to be included in a game. Why do jokes or humor need to be included in a game or story? Why does ANY type of customization need to be included in a game? Why does the wild-shape ability in any form need to be part of a game or story? Why do elves get the same range of skin tones as humans? Why does there have to be blondes? What does that add to the story or game play?

If merely lacking some type of reasoned justification is necessary in order to include anything in a game or a story, there's a LOT of stuff you would never been able to work into one, cuz there's no inherent logic to why any particular thing needs to be included. There might be reasons why including certain things doesn't make sense in a particular context, but that's a different deal that doesn't apply here. Because a druid having sex while wildshaped into a bear CAN happen in the game world without breaking verisimilitude.

And even if some type of justification was necessary on some level, I would think that "because it's (presumably/to some people at least) funny" and "it could happen in this game world" would be enough. Also, there are apparently scenes with nudity, which I guess it's what the genital customization is for.

The thing I think you're trying to ask, though, is "Why does SEX (of any type) need to be included in a D&D game (specifically)?" And even then I would say that I don't have any inherent problem with it and that the idea of sex isn't antithetical to D&D. But if people were to ask the question (which no one foaming at the mouth at the idea of bear sex specifically has bothered to ask) "Why does sex and customization of sex organs need to be included in a video game based on a TTRPG marketed at ages 12+?" THEN I would have to say, "I personally don't care and this isn't the TTRPG, but a video game using the same ruleset. But at the very least it seems like an odd choice."

If you prefer to think of it that way, so be it.

Frankly, I think an awful lot of you need to just fess up and say you're wanking it to this stuff. Don't worry, I won't judge you.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 02:52:16 PMIf you prefer to think of it that way, so be it.

The specific question you were asking made no sense, because the implicit standard behind it would disqualify almost anything from being included in a game or story. I literally (or figuratively?) had to wrack my brain trying to figure out other type of underlying issue could there be that I might be missing before I remembered that D&D (the TTRPG, not the M rated BG video game) is marketed at ages 12+, which I think is what made the inclusion of genital customization seem odd (I think most people here have pointed out at some point that genital customization was really the oddest part of this whole thing, rather than the bear sex, specifically).

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 02:52:16 PMFrankly, I think an awful lot of you need to just fess up and say you're wanking it to this stuff. Don't worry, I won't judge you.

I will as soon as GeekySarkeesian admits he just wants to censor things, cuz he's a Right-Wing SJW. ;D

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

I don't think that the aim was "shock value". I think that "shock value" was a bonus freely given by all the clueless that still haven't understood the basic principle "If you want to bury something, minimise it". Nah, what we got is screaming anti-woke (*) warriors shining an even brighter spotlight on this game (as I said, even I thought "Boy, you can do even that??) To us, very vanilla types, "bear sex" is already "so Twitter last week. Let's move on...."

However, as a DM, I would consider the question "If my druid turns into a bear, does he/she have normal sexual urges, or I'm tied to a different biology?" very seriously. My answer would probably be "I let you to choose what you feel being the best." Lo, this is what BG3 does.

Why you can choose your genitals? Even before considering how you can do that since "modded Skyrim circa 2012", I have no problems with the concept "If you want to create a brutish thiefling 8' tall with female voice and genitals you can do it". I was lazily checking female models when I stumbled into one who was the copy of Chelsea Hamill (the daughter of Mark Hamill who I met some years ago). I found the thing funny, choose "default" for the genitals and moved on (my character is a vanilla paladinette who will "satisfy" any anal urges with her red hot sword - just sayin'...)

Why I choose the daughter of Mark Hamill? (which, I understand, is a creepy idea IN THE UNITED STATES) My best answer is "because". I like the idea that the daughter of Luke Skywalker is the main "paladin" character of "my" deep dive in BG3. No other reason at all.

I could quote thousands of things a PC or a NPC in one of my campaigns did or were for no plot-related reason at all. Why, in my CoC adventure set in North Dakota in 1919 a character was the daughter of a family of German-Americans who were interned in camps during WWI after the US enered the war? To give a sense of time and place. Nothing else. This factoid wasn't even part of the adventure at all. But it contributed - along with others - to give the players the idea that, yes, it was ND in 1919, not "it could be Hobart in 1925 and nothing changes".

This is why BG1-2, along with other "RPG games", never approached a true table-top experience - BG3 gets closer (no one here even mentioned how it has a DM!) and, amazingly enough, is being rewarded for it.

(*) Anti-woke warriors are people who practice their ideology the same way woke do. Superficially they preach the opposite; factually, they are indistinguishable.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

Look up input-reading next. That'll REALLY piss you off.

In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

So the degenerates in this thread could wank to it, that's why. And I'm fine with it, to each their own, but somehow me stating is a game from degenerates, by degeneratesa and for degenerates means I want it banned (because they can totally read my mind) even if they can't provide a single quote of me advocating for that or for censoring the game.

FFS Venger's stuff is also full of degeneracy, I won't buy, play or promote it, but I did made the logo for VengerCon for free and I'm in good terms with him, we could even be friends.

Dear degenerates: By all means have at it, just don't pretend you're anything else than sick degenerates.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 09, 2023, 09:16:17 AM

Quote from: Zalman on August 09, 2023, 07:29:57 AM
Speaking of degenerate, BG3 fudges dice by default. (https://www.ign.com/articles/psa-you-might-want-to-turn-off-this-sneaky-baldurs-gate-3-feature)

(Maybe this is common in video games, I don't know because I don't play them, but it's gross either way!)

Video Games cheat, been happening since the dawn of Digital Time, go play any 80s and 90s arcade game, "cheating" is built into the code to make it so you spend more quarters.

True.
Perhaps one of the best know games for this is Street Fighter 2. There are numerous examples of where the computer "cheats," but one is with the "stagger" mechanic. A staggered character is unresponsive to button commands for a certain number of frames. In later (i.e. "harder") stages of the game, the computer can start using the Block function several frames before their stagger expires. This is done to increase the difficulty by reducing the time a player has to attack a staggered foe.

Karmic Dice in BG3 is not the same as this though. As Reckall pointed out, it's more about providing a balanced experience. Sort of like using Fudge Dice on tabletop.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 04:03:30 PM
So the degenerates in this thread could wank to it, that's why. And I'm fine with it, to each their own, but somehow me stating is a game from degenerates, by degeneratesa and for degenerates means I want it banned (because they can totally read my mind) even if they can't provide a single quote of me advocating for that or for censoring the game.

FFS Venger's stuff is also full of degeneracy, I won't buy, play or promote it, but I did made the logo for VengerCon for free and I'm in good terms with him, we could even be friends.

Dear degenerates: By all means have at it, just don't pretend you're anything else than sick degenerates.

You're flinging around the word "degenerate" like it's on fire and insulting anyone who disagrees with you, yet you want people to meticulously review all your posts and presumably apologize for misinterpreting your position when it turns out they can't find evidence that you support censorship.

Fuck it man, your little tempest here is what you get for a lazy link drop post.

Next time consider making your opinion clear in your original post because it's human nature to make inferences and you left a lot of space for inferences considering your original post totaled, what, 8 words.

It's almost like you intended to pick a fight.

Good day, sir!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 04:03:30 PM
Dear degenerates: By all means have at it, just don't pretend you're anything else than sick degenerates.

Why? Because you say so and thus it is objectively true?

Send your resume to TBP. Maybe they are looking for support staff.

"Degenerate" is quickly becoming an overused and misapplied word, and will soon lose all meaning. That's something these racist, misogynistic, nazi puritans don't seem to understand.

(Note to any retards: ^this^ is a joke.)

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Besides the repulsion value, I'm wondering what kind of audience that is aimed at. Is it large enough and profitable enough to be catered to by WotC? If Baldur's Gate is part of a DnD setting, then is this a sneak peak at what we can expect for the future of DnD digital offerings?

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2023, 05:25:31 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Besides the repulsion value, I'm wondering what kind of audience that is aimed at. Is it large enough and profitable enough to be catered to by WotC? If Baldur's Gate is part of a DnD setting, then is this a sneak peak at what we can expect for the future of DnD digital offerings?

I have a transexual character in my CoC campaign right now. I don't need for WotC to tell me that I HAVE to have them in D&D. Nor, for the very same reason, I'll have them because WotC tells me so.

As I wrote before, I just checked if sex change was available in the States in 1920. It was. The character is a high-level prostitute for "special tastes" that already provided inside info about the Silver Twilight Lodge. Also, when we played "Dead Light" (the Dead Light is an eldritch horror that kills "aberrations") she was the only target. If she is alive is only because another character had 5% probability of passing a specific skill and she rolled 02 - astounding the table.

Funnily enough, this transexual character is a "she". "Pronouns? What are they?" - (my players)

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2023, 05:25:31 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Besides the repulsion value, I'm wondering what kind of audience that is aimed at.

Probably the same people who laughed at the rumors that Leo DeCaprio gets raped by bear in The Revenant.

Question for someone who has the game (I do not)... does the vampire in that particular bit happen to look anything like DeCaprio?

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 03:12:47 PM
The specific question you were asking made no sense, because the implicit standard behind it would disqualify almost anything from being included in a game or story. I literally (or figuratively?) had to wrack my brain trying to figure out other type of underlying issue could there be that I might be missing before I remembered that D&D (the TTRPG, not the M rated BG video game) is marketed at ages 12+, which I think is what made the inclusion of genital customization seem odd (I think most people here have pointed out at some point that genital customization was really the oddest part of this whole thing, rather than the bear sex, specifically).

This is an interesting way to admit I was right to ask the question, after saying it made no sense.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 03:12:47 PMI will as soon as GeekySarkeesian admits he just wants to censor things, cuz he's a Right-Wing SJW. ;D

I think Geeky is making a mistake going all in on the degeneracy angle.

Of course, he's not on the side that promotes putting gay sex manuals in schools, either. But that's a different discussion.

The fact is that unless you're planning to market to prurient interest, why on earth would you have genital customization, or fairly graphic discussion and depiction of sex, in a game at all? If you want to put that in a game, fine, but you're getting filed right next to Subverse. Are we playing D&D, or Fantasy Fuck Simulator?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 07:57:49 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 03:12:47 PM
The specific question you were asking made no sense, because the implicit standard behind it would disqualify almost anything from being included in a game or story. I literally (or figuratively?) had to wrack my brain trying to figure out other type of underlying issue could there be that I might be missing before I remembered that D&D (the TTRPG, not the M rated BG video game) is marketed at ages 12+, which I think is what made the inclusion of genital customization seem odd (I think most people here have pointed out at some point that genital customization was really the oddest part of this whole thing, rather than the bear sex, specifically).

This is an interesting way to admit I was right to ask the question, after saying it made no sense.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 03:12:47 PMI will as soon as GeekySarkeesian admits he just wants to censor things, cuz he's a Right-Wing SJW. ;D

I think Geeky is making a mistake going all in on the degeneracy angle.

Of course, he's not on the side that promotes putting gay sex manuals in schools, either. But that's a different discussion.

The fact is that unless you're planning to market to prurient interest, why on earth would you have genital customization, or fairly graphic discussion and depiction of sex, in a game at all? If you want to put that in a game, fine, but you're getting filed right next to Subverse. Are we playing D&D, or Fantasy Fuck Simulator?

It wasn't just your comment, but multiple comments were the genital customization thing came up. I knew it felt "odd" in the back of my head, but I wasn't sure why. Then it suddenly hit me that, while I don't dismiss the possibility of sex in D&D, I had never associated the core D&D experience with overt sexual acts. People could engage in it at their own table or in D&D fanfic, but that wasn't what the core game itself was about. Then I thought back to when I was a kid being introduced to D&D in the 90s and I remembered that this game was marketed at teens, and had always been mostly "family friendly", sans a scant few instances of boob art early on, and bikini clad characters, and such. But never overt sexuality.

This is the first official D&D product I'm aware of that features full frontal nudity and sex scenes. That pretty much takes it out of the market for concerned parents who don't want their children exposed to sexual stuff. And there's also a concern in that D&D is the entryway into tabletop for many people.

But regardless of any of that, it doesn't seem to have mattered much, cuz this game is selling like hot cakes and has every other game dev shitting their pants. So I guess no one outside this forum cares. Everywhere else where I've even heard about the bear sex stuff, it mostly comes up as a joke. No one else seems to be clutching their pearls or running to jerk off to shapeshifted animal sex either. It's just a novelty thing and a joke, but all of the focus seems to be on how awesome the game is beyond any of that stuff.

The gay sex stuff in schools is a different issue, cuz that's pushing sex and political ideology on minors in a school setting, and that's not what school is supposed to be about. The books can exist, but they shouldn't be pushed in schools, except maybe at the college level (and even then I have concerns due to the ideological capture of academia, but it is technically the correct setting to delve into that kind of stuff).

Quote from: Reckall on August 09, 2023, 06:33:05 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2023, 05:25:31 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 09, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
In any case, other than the (probably true) comment of 'shock value', no one has presented an argument as to why the game and story necessitated genital customization and sex with a wild-shaped druid (technically it's not bestiality, as the 'bear' is sapient. Still strikes me as unnecessary).

Besides the repulsion value, I'm wondering what kind of audience that is aimed at. Is it large enough and profitable enough to be catered to by WotC? If Baldur's Gate is part of a DnD setting, then is this a sneak peak at what we can expect for the future of DnD digital offerings?

I have a transexual character in my CoC campaign right now. I don't need for WotC to tell me that I HAVE to have them in D&D. Nor, for the very same reason, I'll have them because WotC tells me so.

As I wrote before, I just checked if sex change was available in the States in 1920. It was. The character is a high-level prostitute for "special tastes" that already provided inside info about the Silver Twilight Lodge. Also, when we played "Dead Light" (the Dead Light is an eldritch horror that kills "aberrations") she was the only target. If she is alive is only because another character had 5% probability of passing a specific skill and she rolled 02 - astounding the table.

Funnily enough, this transexual character is a "she". "Pronouns? What are they?" - (my players)

Last time I checked, you weren't Hasbro or WotC.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 08:58:13 PM
It wasn't just your comment, but multiple comments were the genital customization thing came up. I knew it felt "odd" in the back of my head, but I wasn't sure why.

I knew the game let people choose genitals, I had no idea they could be relocated!

Quote from: Grognard GM on August 09, 2023, 09:44:19 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 08:58:13 PM
It wasn't just your comment, but multiple comments were the genital customization thing came up. I knew it felt "odd" in the back of my head, but I wasn't sure why.

I knew the game let people choose genitals, I had no idea they could be relocated!

That's just the  game trying to fuck with your head....

The funny thing is that aside from the stupid genital customization and the bear sex crap, it looks like Larian managed to land this one right in the ten ring.

As VisionStorm notes, the game is selling very well. Which I suppose is a win, of sorts, for Hasbro and WotC.

Did it have to involve full frontal nudity though?

You know, there's tons of times I get people "reporting" a post with something like "this guy is woek" or "personal attack", and its meaningless stuff that I would never take mod action on.
But here, there's a thread that is clearly in the wrong category, but that no one bothers to give me a heads up about? A totally legitimate and straighforward report, but no...

Moved.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2023, 09:47:27 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on August 09, 2023, 09:44:19 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 09, 2023, 08:58:13 PM
It wasn't just your comment, but multiple comments were the genital customization thing came up. I knew it felt "odd" in the back of my head, but I wasn't sure why.

I knew the game let people choose genitals, I had no idea they could be relocated!

That's just the  game trying to fuck with your head....

Extreme custom eye balls.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 09, 2023, 11:05:31 PM
You know, there's tons of times I get people "reporting" a post with something like "this guy is woek" or "personal attack", and its meaningless stuff that I would never take mod action on.
But here, there's a thread that is clearly in the wrong category, but that no one bothers to give me a heads up about? A totally legitimate and straighforward report, but no...

Moved.

This thread started about BG3 and it is mostly about the game,  but it then became a more general discussion about choices, "reality vs. make-believe" and different cultural sensibilities in the concept of RPG at large. I guess that this is why no one reported it: everything said about BG3 can be said about tabletop RPGs and many examples in this debate were based on TTRPGs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 09, 2023, 11:05:31 PM
You know, there's tons of times I get people "reporting" a post with something like "this guy is woek" or "personal attack", and its meaningless stuff that I would never take mod action on.
But here, there's a thread that is clearly in the wrong category, but that no one bothers to give me a heads up about? A totally legitimate and straighforward report, but no...

Moved.

You know, this is why I post to this forum. You don't over moderate. You actually accept people who don't agree with your politics and let them speak freely.

You know, I've been hearing BG3 has a serious issue in its save game mechanism where it doesn't want to cloud sync.

That's an even better reason to hold off on buying it.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2023, 10:53:40 AM
You know, I've been hearing BG3 has a serious issue in its save game mechanism where it doesn't want to cloud sync.

That's an even better reason to hold off on buying it.

I think that the problem was with cross saving - i.e. I save in the Cloud on PC and I can reprise the game on my PS 5 or M1 Mac. Larian, however, wasn't able to launch the three version together and delayed Mac and PS 5 to September. Somehow, this meant that if you had cross-saving enabled you could have trouble with the saves.

Anyway, they already published three hot-fixes in under a week and this problem is no more (Edit: BTW, Steam Cloud saves were always fine).

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2023, 10:53:40 AM
You know, I've been hearing BG3 has a serious issue in its save game mechanism where it doesn't want to cloud sync.

That's an even better reason to hold off on buying it.

Definite deal breaker for me. I had a similar problem with Pillars of Eternity and ended up rage quitting and swearing off Obsidian for life, cuz over a decade after release they still hadn't fix it and I kept losing my saves at random from time to time.

Good thing my computer currently can't even run BG3, so I wasn't in a hurry to get it anyway.

As I said, this problem it is already fixed. And, if you don't plan to play on multiple platforms, Steam Cloud worked from day 1 (crossplay will basically be for PS 5 - as you can transfer saves between PC and Mac via Steam Cloud).

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 04:34:28 AM
As I said, this problem it is already fixed. And, if you don't plan to play on multiple platforms, Steam Cloud worked from day 1 (crossplay will basically be for PS 5 - as you can transfer saves between PC and Mac via Steam Cloud).

Are there still issues in multiplayer mode? Such as cut scenes only being visible to one of the players?

Anyway, just to clear the situation a bit, the intro cinematic shows what BG3 is about. I.e. not bear porn.

Spelljammer + Planescape + Alien (!) + What a Dragon Strike Force can be when they are serious - all wrapped in sheer D&D. BG3 is currently the ninth game with most concurrent gamers on Steam ever - all looking for bear porn, I guess... ::)

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:56:19 AM
Anyway, just to clear the situation a bit, the intro cinematic shows what BG3 is about. I.e. not bear porn.

Spelljammer + Planescape + Alien (!) + What a Dragon Strike Force can be when they are serious - all wrapped in sheer D&D. BG3 is currently the ninth game with most concurrent gamers on Steam ever - all looking for bear porn, I guess... ::)

What annoys me is why was it necessary to include the AO content in the first place?

It seems like a perfectly good game without it.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 11, 2023, 07:58:55 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:56:19 AM
Anyway, just to clear the situation a bit, the intro cinematic shows what BG3 is about. I.e. not bear porn.

Spelljammer + Planescape + Alien (!) + What a Dragon Strike Force can be when they are serious - all wrapped in sheer D&D. BG3 is currently the ninth game with most concurrent gamers on Steam ever - all looking for bear porn, I guess... ::)

What annoys me is why was it necessary to include the AO content in the first place?

It seems like a perfectly good game without it.

I like to imagine a marketing meeting.

"We still haven't involved all the influencers out there. What we can do?"

"Hmmm... wokeism is on its way out. What about BEAR PORN? A lot of people will screech against it - incrementing our visibility by 500%. And we have not to worry, because they will be derided."

"GENIUS!"

But, truth to be told, the game already hasn't bear porn. You have to look for it hard if you want to find it - and you can still refuse. BG3 isn't about bear porn at all.

It can be about being a evil thrall of Asmodeus from minute one, of course, but no one thinks that it would be a degenerate choice - so they couldn't use that to amplify their visibility.

Yeah, I have to say things like the bear f**king or the romantic furry brunch initially concerned me about what the game would be like, but outside of a couple minor things in character creation (which were nothing to get riled up about), I haven't run into anything remotely woke in gameplay. It's been playing like a good old-fashioned computer RPG. I was completely sold when it allowed me to pick up a goblin and throw him to his death in a ravine (yes, I'm assuming his gender since he didn't bother to tell me his pronouns before I hurled him off the cliff...  :D ). I'd say if you like games like the Witcher or Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you should like BG3 (unless you don't like the top-down POV rather than first-person).

I have a few issues with the game but they're related to things like inventory management or the skill roll UI; nothing to do with identity politics or anything of that nature. Granted, I'm not that far into the game, so my opinion might change.

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:56:19 AM
Anyway, just to clear the situation a bit, the intro cinematic shows what BG3 is about. I.e. not bear porn.

Spelljammer + Planescape + Alien (!) + What a Dragon Strike Force can be when they are serious - all wrapped in sheer D&D. BG3 is currently the ninth game with most concurrent gamers on Steam ever - all looking for bear porn, I guess... ::)

Evidently lotsa people need to fess up about getting this game as wank material.  ;)

Quote from: Kanyenya on August 11, 2023, 03:40:41 PM
Yeah, I have to say things like the bear f**king or the romantic furry brunch initially concerned me about what the game would be like, but outside of a couple minor things in character creation (which were nothing to get riled up about), I haven't run into anything remotely woke in gameplay. It's been playing like a good old-fashioned computer RPG. I was completely sold when it allowed me to pick up a goblin and throw him to his death in a ravine (yes, I'm assuming his gender since he didn't bother to tell me his pronouns before I hurled him off the cliff...  :D ). I'd say if you like games like the Witcher or Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, you should like BG3 (unless you don't like the top-down POV rather than first-person).

I have a few issues with the game but they're related to things like inventory management or the skill roll UI; nothing to do with identity politics or anything of that nature. Granted, I'm not that far into the game, so my opinion might change.

Yeah, from people's reaction here, and a couple of videos I initially thought that the woke had taken over. But when I actually started to go through the videos and looked beyond the anti-woke hysteria, I started to realize that outside a few odd choices (like framing sex as a "body type", and giving everyone dick or pussy options, regardless of their actual sex body type) there were few actual woke elements and far more customization options than people were implying.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 11, 2023, 08:26:13 PM
Yeah, from people's reaction here, and a couple of videos I initially thought that the woke had taken over. But when I actually started to go through the videos and looked beyond the anti-woke hysteria, I started to realize that outside a few odd choices (like framing sex as a "body type", and giving everyone dick or pussy options, regardless of their actual sex body type) there were few actual woke elements and far more customization options than people were implying.

In a world with casual polymorphic magic I have zero problem with that the same way I have no problem with it in Cyberpunk 2077.

When going from him to her and back again involves nothing more than a walk down to the local body sculpting clinic see Merlin the Dick Wizard, gender classification would get a bit weird.