Quote from: RPGPundit;326747By the way, please don't see me moving this thread as a "punishment".

If a whole whack of people had actually thought that the premise of the thread was unusually *strong*, I might have taken issue with unilateral judgement on it.

But your move seemed pretty much in accord with the consensus.  Not an RPG by standards of this board, in the end.

I'm not familiar with 'Aye, Dark Overlord' at all.

Readin the thread, I think the key thing that's missing is complete freedom of choice. In a 'deathmatch' D&D game, can you not choose to attack your allies or create weird traps out of things that are lying around the dungeon? If you are surrounded by walls, can you not use your sword to dig them out? If players choices of action (not necessarily their resolution, but action) are not unlimited, then it is not an RPG.

Quote from: KrakaJak;326765Readin the thread, I think the key thing that's missing is complete freedom of choice. In a 'deathmatch' D&D game, can you not choose to attack your allies or create weird traps out of things that are lying around the dungeon? If you are surrounded by walls, can you not use your sword to dig them out? If players choices of action (not necessarily their resolution, but action) are not unlimited, then it is not an RPG.

Quibble:

In an RPG, character action choices are limited by the player group's tacit agreement.  You don't knife the other guy in the back because the players will call you a dick.

I'm pretty sure I've had this argument here before and seen enough of the other side to be satisfied, though, so I won't chase that one further unless you want to.

Just:  It's not quite as simple as that.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326768Quibble:

In an RPG, character action choices are limited by the player group's tacit agreement.  You don't knife the other guy in the back because the players will call you a dick.

I'm pretty sure I've had this argument here before and seen enough of the other side to be satisfied, though, so I won't chase that one further unless you want to.

Just:  It's not quite as simple as that.

this ties in with that illusion of freedom I was talking about earlier. Your character can't actually do anything it wants to, but the player has the sense that he can make his character do anything he wants it to do.

Also, the limits aren't imposed by the game mechanics. Huge difference.

After first seeing this thread asnd link I thought "Gee, that game looks damn familiar."

 Yep - we had a copy on our shelves.

 It is shelved with the other FFG card games.

Mentioned to my manager the gist of the thread question. He agreed with me - its a card game, NOT an RPG.

However, to be fair - playing it might be one way to gauge if some friends might be interested in regular roleplaying games or have the hidden creativity involved for it.

- Ed C.

Quote from: LeviJust:  It's not quite as simple as that.

I'm sure it is as simple as that. You just wish it was more complicated.

Quote from: LeviIn an RPG, character action choices are limited by the player group's tacit agreement. You don't knife the other guy in the back because the players will call you a dick.

In RPGs, you can choose to be a dick.

Quote from: KrakaJak;326779In RPGs, you can choose to be a dick.

I'm pretty sure you could find the "that's lame" line in your group.

But, well, I'm not gonna encourage you to try...

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326812I'm pretty sure you could find the "that's lame" line in your group.

But, well, I'm not gonna encourage you to try...

That's true, but that's the group. I can also find groups of Monopoly players that don't put money down on free parking. People sure do play games lots of different ways, don't they?

I wouldn't even put the limits on the group in an RPG. It's in 'playing the role' that the limits of your characters actions would appear. As a player and GM I relish the times I can witness a well played asshole. One of the guys I regularly play with plays them pretty frequently and in a very entertaining way. He has screwed other PC's and the Players themselves are cool with it because he deals with the consequences of those actions. He's considered a dick.

It's not always flowers and rainbows and 'let's help each other out!' at my table. It's all the more fun for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhmUj9QJ9RM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9FMURHhgzc

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326844http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhmUj9QJ9RM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9FMURHhgzc

....While funny...

...Are there actually people that play like that?  I've never seen fuckwittery of that scale.

(And I mean the jackass Serious Business Twins and the Oh I Just Describe Things And Apply Rules And Have No Other Input DM, more than I mean beer dude.)

Yes, there are people that play like that. With any luck, they are few. Though I suspect they used to be quite common.