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American boardgames and German/European boardgames, what's the difference?

Started by Balbinus, January 09, 2008, 07:24:23 PM

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Balbinus

Like it says really, I often see games described as being American or German in reviews, and it plainly is more to do with design philosophy than location of designer (in that you can get German/European games made by Americans), so what are the two schools of thought?

Blackleaf

From the BoardGameGeek.com glossary:

Ameritrash

n. A catchphrase for "American style boardgames". In general, this means games that emphasize a highly developed theme, player to player conflict, and usually feature a moderate to high level of luck. Examples of classic Ameritrash games include Axis and Allies, Dune, Cosmic Encounter, Talisman, and Twilight Imperium.

euro / eurogame

n. synonym for German game This term emphasizes the more frequent publication of German-style games in other countries in Europe.

eurotrash

n. A derogatory catchphrase for "European style boardgames"

family game

n. A game that typically has simple rules, a short playing time, relatively high levels of abstraction and player interaction, and requires three or more players. A large percentage of these games originate in Germany.

german game

n. A game from Germany. Such games typically have relatively simple rules, short playing times, fairly high levels of abstraction and player interaction, and attractive physical components. Games not from Germany that otherwise meet the criteria are occasionally included in this group, but are more frequently described as 'German-like'

Balbinus

Quote from: StuartFrom the BoardGameGeek.com glossary:

Ameritrash

n. A catchphrase for "American style boardgames". In general, this means games that emphasize a highly developed theme, player to player conflict, and usually feature a moderate to high level of luck. Examples of classic Ameritrash games include Axis and Allies, Dune, Cosmic Encounter, Talisman, and Twilight Imperium.

euro / eurogame

n. synonym for German game This term emphasizes the more frequent publication of German-style games in other countries in Europe.

eurotrash

n. A derogatory catchphrase for "European style boardgames"

family game

n. A game that typically has simple rules, a short playing time, relatively high levels of abstraction and player interaction, and requires three or more players. A large percentage of these games originate in Germany.

german game

n. A game from Germany. Such games typically have relatively simple rules, short playing times, fairly high levels of abstraction and player interaction, and attractive physical components. Games not from Germany that otherwise meet the criteria are occasionally included in this group, but are more frequently described as 'German-like'

Thanks Stuart, turns out I tend to like American games more, due to the greater emphasis on theme and tying rules to the concept.  I find with the European games that sometimes they're just too abstract for me, with the theme being mere colour.

Balbinus

Incidentally, I find boardgamegeek a really user unfriendly site, I don't mean the folk are unfriendly, just the site itself is not that intuitive.

Rpg.net reviews I can find really quickly, boardgamegeek I end up wading through tons of threads trying to work out which are relevant.

Pierce Inverarity

Me too, Balb. My visceral hat of the games that have been coming out of my country know no limit. Thankfully, I was spared from having to play Settlers with my nephews this past holiday season.

BGG is definitely overcoded, if that is indeed a word, but it's been a godsend more than once. I find their ratings noteworthy. We RPGers are supposed to be grumpy, but these dork don't like ANYTHING.
Ich habe mir schon sehr lange keine Gedanken mehr über Bleistifte gemacht.--Settembrini

Imperator

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBGG is definitely overcoded, if that is indeed a word, but it's been a godsend more than once. I find their ratings noteworthy. We RPGers are supposed to be grumpy, but these dork don't like ANYTHING.
I agree with Pierce. I use BGG to have an overall view of a game I don-t know, and I tend to trust their ratings. Also, if you know where to look there are many useful materials (erratas, additional rules, even counters for print). Otherwise, the place is quite messy.
My name is Ramón Nogueras. Running now Vampire: the Masquerade (Giovanni Chronicles IV for just 3 players), and itching to resume my Call of Cthulhu campaign (The Sense of the Sleight-of-Hand Man).

Settembrini

Our Boardgames are nice.
If you play them with your grandma or other non-sophisticated-gamer people.

I really get iresome when quality gaming time with sophisticated gamers is wasted on something you could as well play with any girl or gal from the street.

There are enough occasions when one has to hang out with unsophisticated gaming people, play those games THEN!

Don´t turn the RPG club into a 50% Ligretto club.

Arg!

If there ever was something rightfully called retarded, then it´s Berlin RPG clubs...
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Premier

Some additional differences:

American school:
- more emphasis on player-to-player conflict
- often features elimination (losing players drop out of the game before it's over)
- often lower production values (plastic figurines, paper chits)

German school:
- more emphasis on player-to-player cooperation (trading, diplomacy, etc.)
- rarely features elimination, everyone gets to articipate until the end
- high production values (wooden playing pieces for the win!)
- 'Star designers' have cult following, name featured on the box.
Obvious troll is obvious. RIP, Bill.

Settembrini

Add:

German school: Players might remain in game until end, bu might have lost without them even knowing at turn 2.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Mcrow

For me the differnce is sort that the euro games are more strategic and slow playing while american games are more flashy, visual, fast paced and more based on luck.

I tend to like American games best. Too many Eurogames are just plain boring. FFG, makes some of the best game around, IMO.

Pierce Inverarity

Shadows of Camelot, is that essentially right in between Euro and Ameri? It looks great, except for the price sticker.
Ich habe mir schon sehr lange keine Gedanken mehr über Bleistifte gemacht.--Settembrini

Mcrow

Quote from: Pierce InverarityShadows of Camelot, is that essentially right in between Euro and Ameri? It looks great, except for the price sticker.

I think it still leans toward Ameritrash, but with a hint of euro.:D

RPGPundit

American games are actually ABOUT something, instead of the "about" being just a stupid window dressing for a system designed to show off the designer's "brilliance".

Guess which ones I like better.

RPGPundit
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arminius

Y'all basically have the difference between American & Euros down. Obviously there's a bit of blur at the margins--for example, based on one playing I'd say that the revised version of Conquest of the Empire has Euro tendencies even though it's probably too "dirty" for most Euro fans. Yet Pundit IIRC likes the game. AFAIC, for my money I'd rather play Imperium Romanum II or King of Kings (aka Imperator in the revised version).

BGG is indeed an overcoded site, though not as bad in my experience as some of the online RPG PDF stores. I mainly just use BGG by logging in (having an account is essential) and then searching for individual games. Indeed I rarely visit the threads, if I have at all, other than the occasional GeekList.

One awesome thing about the place: people are helpful. At least, when I bought a secondhand copy of a game that was missing part of the rules, I sent a message to owners of the game and got several offers to scan the bits I was missing.

Anyway, back to the Euro/Ameritrash divide, as someone who was fairly indifferent to games in general until I was introduced to wargames back in the 70's, it was an extreme annoyance when Euros and CCGs invaded rec.games.board in the early 90's. And I personally loathe Civilization, essentially an early Euro, as well as most rail games, of which there were a flood in the early Euro days. A common characteristic of many of these games is that they reward precise calculation, but also depend on same from everyone around the table. By which I mean that in 1830, say, if you have a player who doesn't agree with the general consensus as to optimal play of his position down to a fairly micro level, it will upset the balance of the game for everyone. As a result--in my experience--the game featured a lot of browbeating as the inexperienced or maverick player is "encouraged" to make the "optimal" play. By contrast the kinds of fuckups I see in Risk-like games or say Kingmaker mainly revolve around misapprehending the balance of power; small tactical errors are punished but don't generally throw the whole game out of balance.

All that said, there are several Euro or Euro-like games that I've enjoyed. Off the top of my head:
Titan: The Arena (aka Colossal Arena)
Condottiere
Princes of Florence (only played twice, though)

And a couple "near-Euros":
History of the World (any edition)
Shanghai Trader (only played once but that was enough to get me to scare up a copy)
Acquire

By way of comparison, some non-Euro games which I enjoy but which aren't hex & counter wargames:
Republic of Rome
Junta
(key here is level of rules complexity and representation, in spite of the fact that map maneuver of armies is virtually irrelevent or nonexistent)

And then nontraditional wargames:
Dune (AH)
Cosmic Encounter (not really a favorite but I'll play)
Magic Realm
Star Trader (SPI)
Cold War (Victory Games)

"new-style" wargames--actually not new, block games or card-driven strategy--tend to use mechanics that are reminiscent of traditional board games such as making card play central to the game, or limiting movement to one or a few pieces on your turn
Hannibal (AH)
We the People (AH)
Napoleon (AH/Columbia)
Rommel in the Desert

Finally a game that's very hard to qualify: Titan. The subgame mechanics are a wargame, but the overall wrapper is vaguely like backgammon--crossed with Headache, maybe.

The reason I'm breaking down the categories is to show that "wargame" per se isn't the opposite of Euro--particularly in the 70's & 80's, there were a lot of innovative games from the (Anglo) American school that weren't exactly about war but did seem to share a similar aesthetic to AH/SPI wargames, in that they tended more toward representation/simulation, weren't afraid of complexity, often featured player elimination as a natural consequence of simulation, and tended to rely on balance-of-power calculations by the players, as a way to manage competition, rather than limiting direct competition and appealing to a mentality favoring precise tactical calculation.

Pierce Inverarity

I find Junta tolerable so long as you play it with a high-ranking German politician dressed in an NVA uniform.
Ich habe mir schon sehr lange keine Gedanken mehr über Bleistifte gemacht.--Settembrini