The bulk of my 40k knowledge is from 2nd edition. So please forgive my out of date knowledge.
So here's my idea.
Somewhere in the imperial, in a fairly densely populated sector, there is a Space Marine chapter.
This chapter, being the only one for a goodly distance, gets a lot of calls for assistance.
At some point, in order to deal with every situation where they were needed the chapter abandoned the codex and went a rather novel route.
Instead of being an elite strikeforce they have instead took it upon themselves to train and lead more conventional Imperial Guard Armies.
So the army would be an Imperial Guard army with some Space Marines attached. All with a coherent color scheme.
I like the idea of a Roman theme, where the Space Marines kind of take the role of patrician soldiers in a "legion" structure.
What do you think?
Any ideas about how to flesh out the fluff? How to do this mechanically?
Back in 40k 2e and Rogue Trader, you could pull that off by buying stats, power armour and bolters for unit leaders. I have no idea if that's possible with the current ruleset if you are seeking to do it "officially" in the game.
If just playing for fun with friends, you could just spend the points for a space marine instead of buying a normal IG leader unit. I don't know if the current edition uses a point buy system that is universal. I know that previous editions had very wonky point issues where 50 points in the IG codex didn't buy equal gear and figs you got with 50 points in the Chaos codex.
It's a cool idea.
Actually, I don't know if they're still relevant to the current edition, but the old Chaos Lost & Damned rules would be good for this. You could have Imperial Guard (mutants, renegade guard, & cultists in CLD), and Astartes (Chaos Space Marine champions & such in CLD).
Now that I think about it, those rules might be 1 or 2 editions out of date though.
Hrmm... looks like the only way I can do it, by the book, in the latest edition would be to have an Imperial Guard force and a Space Marine force be "allied detachment".
Not quite the level of integration I wanted but it could work.
A core of Space Marines with a swarm to IG.
Hrmmmm...
So what kind of color scheme should I go for?
Embrace the Roman Legion concept! Give 'em some red, white and toss in some bronze-colored armor.
Quote from: Piestrio;670688Hrmm... looks like the only way I can do it, by the book, in the latest edition would be to have an Imperial Guard force and a Space Marine force be "allied detachment".
Not quite the level of integration I wanted but it could work.
A core of Space Marines with a swarm to IG.
Hrmmmm...
Fiction-wise, the Imperium's military organisation is designed to prevent individuals controlling huge combined forces like this, because
what if something like the Horus Heresy happened again? The Imperium is a scared, paranoid empire.
If you're ever wondering why the Imperium is doing something completely ass-backwards when there is an obviously better way, just say to yourself "But what if... Horus?", and realise that the Imperium can't see any better way to do anything, because it doesn't understand the setting as well as we do.
But hey. Your concept sounds a lot like the Ultramarine's pocket empire; Space marine homeworlds don't have to raise Guard units, but the worlds in Ultramar do, because they're so prosperous, so that tells you something about your planet. There's probably a strong martial culture, too, if they're so willing to do that rather than just keeping the resources that a Guard force ties up, to themselves. Some sort of stipend for families of a currently-serving Marine, regardless of how old.
I would suspect that the Marine chapter and the Guard units are both so highly decorated, there are a lot of representatives from both that are relatively high-up the chain of local government, and so they're able to request each other's aid relatively unhindered. Perhaps the Chapter Master is an old friend of the current local Lord General's family even from before he joined the Marines, and has followed their children's careers for hundreds of years. Maybe the Lord General's for the past few centuries have only came from a handful of families, maybe the Chapter Master himself is from one of these families. I don't know, it's your army.
Colour-scheme wise, I'll say yellow (It's a lovely bold colour), with bronze weapons and red highlights. Probably do the Guard in environment camo, but with bronze lasguns, yellow legion designations, and red gear highlights, so they're recognizably related.
Awesome everyone!
I played a bit with a rather crappy Flash Painter (keep in mind pattern and shade is definitely not set, so these are just for a broad idea):
1. The brown weapons etc... are bronze. The IG is camo pattern.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-15at75818AM.png)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-15at75812AM.png)
2.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-14at104419PM.png)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-14at104425PM.png)
3. Again, brown is bronze.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-15at80101AM.png)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-15at80108AM.png)
Sounds like it's right in the middle of Ultramar! The Ultramarines Legion seems like the way you want to go, sounds exactly like a Successor Chapter on one of the fringes.
Space Marines frequently command crusades or task forces formed of various regiments of Guard, and don't forget the Navy.
If you're making up your own chapter, you can choose whatever color scheme you like. I'd say it's more important to devise why those colors are important to that particular chapter rather than stressing over which colors you actually use on the army.
That said, I'm fond of bright Red for plumes and robes, and a stark white base. Add a bit of bronze or gold for shields and details, and you've got some nice looking quasi romans.
Quote from: Blackhand;670943Sounds like it's right in the middle of Ultramar! The Ultramarines Legion seems like the way you want to go, sounds exactly like a Successor Chapter on one of the fringes.
Space Marines frequently command crusades or task forces formed of various regiments of Guard, and don't forget the Navy.
If you're making up your own chapter, you can choose whatever color scheme you like. I'd say it's more important to devise why those colors are important to that particular chapter rather than stressing over which colors you actually use on the army.
That said, I'm fond of bright Red for plumes and robes, and a stark white base. Add a bit of bronze or gold for shields and details, and you've got some nice looking quasi romans.
I've been looking at robes and whatnot from Dark Angels. I think they would look nice for some models. I also like helmet plumes.
Also keeping with te roman theme, things would be highly ritualized, which means chaplains and ornamentation.
If you are feeling particularly in a mood for modding & stuff, you may consider buying some regiments of Dogs of War, namely the Tilean Spearmen, or look for Warhammer Ancient Battles (or however it was exactly called) miniatures, and go Full Roman, with just gluing IG hands onto the minis with laser guns and stuff.
Quote from: Rincewind1;670952If you are feeling particularly in a mood for modding & stuff, you may consider buying some regiments of Dogs of War, namely the Tilean Spearmen, or look for Warhammer Ancient Battles (or however it was exactly called) miniatures, and go Full Roman, with just gluing IG hands onto the minis with laser guns and stuff.
Good shout. No reason flak armour has to look like modern combat fatigues, and as long as it works, the Imperium wouldn't really give a shit at this level. Could use shields for decoration; squad leaders with power shields of some kind would be neat way of modelling carapace armour.
Actually, using true 28mm figs, as opposed to heroic 28mm, would really accentuate how Marines tower over humans. Plus, weren't the Romans historically quite short as well?
I think Scibor miniatures has what you need, Piestro.
They are polish, so you can go to their home site if you don't mind that. Otherwise, everything is available on Ebay with a quick search for Scibor Miniatures Spartans. (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.Xscibor+miniatures+spartans.TRS0&_nkw=scibor+miniatures+spartans&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
They work nicely with marine bits. What I mean is, they work nicely with all GW marine kits. There's even plates for your vehicles!
Would be very interested to see you work!
Quote from: Blackhand;670966I think Scibor miniatures has what you need, Piestro.
They are polish, so you can go to their home site if you don't mind that. Otherwise, everything is available on Ebay with a quick search for Scibor Miniatures Spartans. (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.Xscibor+miniatures+spartans.TRS0&_nkw=scibor+miniatures+spartans&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
They work nicely with marine bits. What I mean is, they work nicely with all GW marine kits. There's even plates for your vehicles!
Would be very interested to see you work!
Man, these guys look pretty tits.
Yeah! Let us see what you come up with, Piestrio. Converting is my favorite part of the hobby. I'm in the middle of a project right now that involves me gluing 80 las rifles to some Warzone miniatures I got on cheap. It's taking FOREVER.
Quote from: Blackhand;670966I think Scibor miniatures has what you need, Piestro.
They are polish, so you can go to their home site if you don't mind that. Otherwise, everything is available on Ebay with a quick search for Scibor Miniatures Spartans. (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.Xscibor+miniatures+spartans.TRS0&_nkw=scibor+miniatures+spartans&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
They work nicely with marine bits. What I mean is, they work nicely with all GW marine kits. There's even plates for your vehicles!
Would be very interested to see you work!
Those are really awesome. Balls expencive but nice. Maybe for characters and bits... Hrm...
Quote from: Piestrio;670983Balls expencive but nice. Maybe for characters and bits... Hrm...
Par for course these days, sadly.
I'd start with a few sprues of the Roman heads, enough for 2 Tactical squads. Maybe a set of shields for Storm Shields.
Of course there are the obligatory HQ sections, and you get to pick pieces to put two models together. You can pick bits and pieces on the Scibor site and make your own.
Also check out Anvil Industries Exo-Lords line. (http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=77)
Check out these helmets... (http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=77_66)of particular note is the Spartan Helmet with Crest (4th row down, middle column), and the Roman Crests (at the bottom).
Another color scheme:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/1082882_10201723742561993_480039400_n.jpg?oh=0b72a470a81cabf77f4d82e9816d5c3a&oe=51F67DFC&__gda__=1375160193_c9f8cb610d6544bff92d9447a2ecf838)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/ScreenShot2013-07-27at71505PM.png)
(I think the yellow/brown is bronze, but I kinda like yellow now too)
Probably grab some test minis this weekend.
Note: IG are a pain in the ass to assemble.
Painting a few "testers" over the next couple days. Three IG and a marine (sans plume, they haven't come in. I'll add them to this dude later).
EDIT: ha! And my first batch of minis in 3+ years gets the infamous "fuzzy" primer treatment. Fuck me.
Quote from: Piestrio;677263EDIT: ha! And my first batch of minis in 3+ years gets the infamous "fuzzy" primer treatment. Fuck me.
That's Orange Peel and it's fixable: just scrub the minis with a toothbrush until the crumbly texture is gone and you're left with a smooth coating of primer (which is there, it's just under the crumbs).
Also this is why I almost exclusively brush-basecoat.
Alright, mostly done blocking the IG:
"Table view": (http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/0134619D-CCC5-4532-8D8B-9774EC5BB749-1246-00000078D8FBA2C5.jpg)
And detail: (http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/FC96A493-02A3-4F5F-B8E4-C1494151F396-1246-00000078E0B052DF.jpg)
Not sure about gun color. Was going with a yellow helmet but then you can't really see the bronze armor.
I think I'll go a tab brighter on the red, but we'll see when I get done layering. Also the bronze definitely needs washing/inking.
Suggestions? Comments?
Quote from: thedungeondelver;677328That's Orange Peel and it's fixable: just scrub the minis with a toothbrush until the crumbly texture is gone and you're left with a smooth coating of primer (which is there, it's just under the crumbs).
Yeah, it's just an annoying extra step.
Next question:
Assuming I go the "Imperial Guard Army with Space Marine Detachment" route (which looks to be the only way to do it right now) what should I look at force composition wise? how do I make this army playable/not complete suck?
EDIT: Right now I'm kind of leaning towards having the marines be assult focused as that tends to the achilles heel of IG armies. So something like a tac squad in rhino, assault squad and some close combat termies. +HQ.
Okay, first coat blocking on the marine:
Also threw some ink around so I'm not blinded by the metallics.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/F66B98FE-8A7D-48F7-B99E-2112A49224A1-1246-0000008EEF6123B8.jpg)
Again, still not sure about the guns so I left it for the moment. I'm thinking I want to leave the casing black and just detail the guts with some kind of gun metal.
On another note I ordered a bunch of bits from Anvil Industries for the marines. Helmet crests for everyone, Balteus' (these I think will bring a bit of brown to the marines and tie them in a bit better), a few cloaks and shields for important folks. Now I just have to wait for them to get over the pond :D
Noice. Going to ink and highlight?
Quote from: thedungeondelver;677546Noice. Going to ink and highlight?
That's the plan.
I'm going to go ahead with black guns and see how it goes.
Quote from: Piestrio;677552That's the plan.
I'm going to go ahead with black guns and see how it goes.
Groovy. I'm base-coloring my Tau firewarrior team right now, once it's done I'll post pics. They look rather crap at the moment.
Looks good.
For the guns, black is good but you might want to pick out some metal details, in a gunmetal color. Not necessary but you might find it aesthetically pleasing and a good contrast to the warm colors.
For the crumbly paint, I recommend a 30min dip into some Super Clean. Plastic models live through it nice and the plastic is nice and bare for a recoat. In fact, I've got 9min left on a batch of old Empire models I got from a club member that I'm stripping.
Looks good! What about vehicles?
Quote from: Blackhand;677558Looks good.
For the guns, black is good but you might want to pick out some metal details, in a gunmetal color. Not necessary but you might find it aesthetically pleasing and a good contrast to the warm colors.
For the crumbly paint, I recommend a 30min dip into some Super Clean. Plastic models live through it nice and the plastic is nice and bare for a recoat. In fact, I've got 9min left on a batch of old Empire models I got from a club member that I'm stripping.
Looks good! What about vehicles?
Yeah, I was going to pick out the metallics on the guns and highlight with grey/white.
I've been thinking a bit about vehicicles but nothing firm yet. Marines will be easy, red/yellow with bronze metal.
Guard... Not sure.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;677554Groovy. I'm base-coloring my Tau firewarrior team right now, once it's done I'll post pics. They look rather crap at the moment.
Maybe we need a monthly painting thread?
Quote from: Piestrio;677563Maybe we need a monthly painting thread?
Works for me.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/Piestrio/1AC15A7F-24F6-4AB1-8D6D-B0D96030AC2F-3308-0000011D65B0B9A1.jpg)
Ta-da!
I could have done a bit better but for the first minis I've painted in 3+ years I'm pretty content :)
Looks cool, though the helmet doesn't really go with the rest of the armor. Or is that on purpose?
Quote from: danbuter;678180Looks cool, though the helmet doesn't really go with the rest of the armor. Or is that on purpose?
That's the color scheme :) bronze on red with yellow accents.
Anyone here willing to help me figure out a couple lists?
Quote from: Piestrio;677870Ta-da!
I could have done a bit better but for the first minis I've painted in 3+ years I'm pretty content :)
Looks very good. Sleek. I actually like the simplicity, without overdone dry-brushing and all that. Well done mate.
For the record, the Tyrant of Badab, Huron Blackheart's army from Forge World's Imperial Armor books works like what you're describing.
Never played any WH besides making armies out of risk pieces and Legos as a kid, but is there any legal way to put together a cultist army? Say a huge shambling horde of weak humans with crappy guns with some demons as back-up?
Chaos cultists are a troop choice in the new Chaos Marine codex, so yeah you can do it, although you'd have to have a marine or a DP as your HQ and pretty much all of your other unit options would involve marines as well.
You can ally with daemons and have them in the same army legally now too. If you want your cultists to have leman russ tanks and stuff like that, you can also ally with IG. But you can't ally with IG and daemons at the same time. If you want to have a mix of heavy ordnance and daemons probably the best way is to have an IG army painted up as traitor guard and ally them with daemons, skipping the CSM book altogether.
So a bit more on the fluff.
The Marine Chapter master is literally the patriarch of the planet, the living ancestor of the nobility.
Mortal families are important insomuch as they can trace their lineage to his line. The Marine chapter basically forms the yard stick for power on the planet. Families who have had marines come from their lines are the patrician stand-ins with the status/number of the marines accruing to the family over the generations.
Becoming a marine is basically treated as a kind of apotheosis wherein the family benefits from having a god come from their line.
That gives a decent reason for the romanesque class divide and the amount of ritualization among the population.