The new
See Page XX is up. It includes articles by Robin D Laws, Julia Ellingboe and Paul Maclean, new Esoterrorist theme music and article by James Semple, and Luke Crane interviews Vincent Baker.
Not a bad issue...
I found that Paul Maclean's "Caught on Tape: Recording Tabletop Games" was less of a how to and more of a personal history and so doesn't deliver as the title might suggest.
I wish someone could please explain the forgie mania for interviewing the shit out of each other at every opportunity...
Quote from: Abyssal MawI wish someone could please explain the forgie mania for interviewing the shit out of each other at every opportunity...
The great thing about podcasts is there is almost no danger of their words entering your brain unless you deliberately listen.
In this case, Luke Crane interviewed the shit out of Vincent Baker because I asked him to.
In the next couple of months, he'll interview the shit out of Jason Morningstar, Clinton R Nixon and Jared Sorensen. Also, we hope he'll interview the shit out of Robin D Laws and possibly Paul Czege at Origins. You know, I think "Luke Crane interviews the shit out of..." might be a better choice of title.
If there are any other designers you would like to undergo this experience, by all means tell me.
Because these blowhards interview each other constantly.
We can hear this interview, and then we can hear the EXACT SAME FUCKING GUYS interview each other on any number of podcasts. Then we can hear them interview each other at someone elses podcast. In some cases you can have forgie A interview forgie B, and post it at his website. Then forgie B will interview forgie A and post it at his website. Then there will be a podcast where forgie A, B, and C have a group and interview each other and post that, like weekly. Every single guy you have posted has been in multiple interviews already, and all these guys ever talk about is how great they think they are and discuss the other forgies who are slated to be interviewed next. The SOLE exception is Robin Laws, who is actually interesting and/or relevant to actual gaming.
Have you guys just... run out of ideas?
It was a beautiful experience...
Quote from: PelgraneLuke Crane interviewed the shit out of XXX because I asked him to.
I generally like the fact that people are trying to get out of there, but be careful not to oversell. It's too buddies discussing topics, with some edgey questions. It's not exactly Paxman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCo7qbzEX3c), is it? :raise:
Also, I wouldn't take anything too personally here, there is a broad Anti-Forge sentiment which is discussed in a lively way. The hobby needs it, I'm sure you appreciate that. Take the hits lightly and roll with the punches. :)
I'm waiting for someone to interview the shit out of clash. Maybe Bill and clash could record themselves chatting at a bar. Keeping the tape rolling till one of the two passes out. I'd download that. :D
But then I was fine listening to the interview that's got AM's panties in a knot, so....
Quote from: Rob LangNot a bad issue...
I found that Paul Maclean's "Caught on Tape: Recording Tabletop Games" was less of a how to and more of a personal history and so doesn't deliver as the title might suggest.
Yeah. That struck me that way too. But they've got some more details if you follow the link at the bottom of the article.
Quote from: blakkieI'm waiting for someone to interview the shit out of clash. Maybe Bill and clash could record themselves chatting at a bar. Keeping the tape rolling till one of the two passes out. I'd download that. :D
But then I was fine listening to the interview that's got AM's panties in a knot, so....
I did that at last year's GenCon. I'd publish Bill's true feelings about squirrels, but so far he's keeping up the payments so I can't release them...
-clash
Quote from: blakkieI'm waiting for someone to interview the shit out of clash. Maybe Bill and clash could record themselves chatting at a bar. Keeping the tape rolling till one of the two passes out. I'd download that. :D
But then I was fine listening to the interview that's got AM's panties in a knot, so....
The interviews themselves are not at issue.
The issue is.. it's the same dudes every time. Saying the same stuff. And it all just amounts to the same infomercial for their stupid cult.
Yeah, interview Clash. Interview Rob Lang about Icar. Interview Kyle about snacks. Interview Rafael Chandler about art. Interview Rob Baker about Forgotten Realms. Interview the Pundit. Interview S. John Ross. Interview Gareth Hanrahan about Traveller. Interview random people in the street about whether they've ever heard of Gary Gygax... Interview Ed Healy or Wolfgang Baur about Kobold Quarterly. Or Gareth Michael Skarka. Or Malcolm Sheppard. Or Jason Buhlman. Or someone...anyone! ..who actually has something insightful, interesting, or intellectually honest to say about roleplaying as a pastime, hobby, phenomenon, or industry.
Or do the exact opposite; just continue along the with same shmucks and crap-peddlers as always. They're already on the list and all close personal friends. How can you possibly go wrong, right?
Quote from: Abyssal MawInterview the Pundit.
I'd pay money to hear that.
You have a valid point there, AM! It seems like most of those guys are being interviewed somewhere on the web every week. Interviewing me is a bad choice as I would be holding back so hard from being silly that I would sound monosyllabic. I also don't know if I could keep away from silly accents and funny voices. The others, though would be inspired choices!
-clash
Quote from: Abyssal MawThe interviews themselves are not at issue.
....
Or do the exact opposite; just continue along the with same shmucks and crap-peddlers as always.
Ummm, yeah. :rolleyes:
But I think you are giving the gears to the wrong people. If you really want to hear Pundit interviewed [by someone that he doesn't scare the crap out of] then pester Pundit and I guess Jong.
My guess as to why you hear the same people is they are the ones that are stepping up. (( Well that and maybe, just maybe, there are at least a few people interested in what they have to say. ))
Quote from: flyingmice... I also don't know if I could keep away from silly accents and funny voices. ...
... aannnnd???? Come on, Bill can't be coming up with
that much to keep the Deep Nut Tapes under wraps.
I know it is coming off as hostile, but I just refuse to believe they can't do better than this when it comes to generating content.
And no, see Jong is the exact wrong person to interview Pundit. Jong is Pundits pal. Luke I can't fault so much, because he's (according to the fiction we are playing along with) the "InterviewER".
Have Luke interview Kevin Siembieda. Or Jeff Dee. Or Kevin Long. Or Bill Coffin. Or Rob Kuntz. Or Darlene Pekul.
The idea that "Hey, go get Luke and have him interview all his pals, and we'll put it up online to impress everyone" is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
Quote from: Abyssal MawAnd no, see Jong is the exact wrong person to interview Pundit. Jong is Pundits pal. Luke I can't fault so much, because he's (according to the fiction we are playing along with) the "InterviewER".
I suggested Jong because interviewing Pundit presents some logistical, as well as some personality changes. ;)
Quote from: Abyssal MawHave Luke interview Kevin Siembieda. Or Jeff Dee. Or Kevin Long. Or Bill Coffin. Or Rob Kuntz. Or Darlene Pekul.
The idea that "Hey, go get Luke and have him interview all his pals, and we'll put it up online to impress everyone" is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
Again, the people willing to step up. *shrug* Not everyone is willing to put themselves out there.
Quote from: Abyssal MawI know it is coming off as hostile, but I just refuse to believe they can't do better than this when it comes to generating content.
Then put your money where your mouth is.
Quote from: blakkieUmmm, yeah. :rolleyes:
But I think you are giving the gears to the wrong people. If you really want to hear Pundit interviewed [by someone that he doesn't scare the crap out of] then pester Pundit and I guess Jong.
Jong is not the person. Someone not intimidated or hostile, but not a friend either. One of the valid points AM makes here is these are buddies interviewing each other.
QuoteMy guess as to why you hear the same people is they are the ones that are stepping up. (( Well that and maybe, just maybe, there are at least a few people interested in what they have to say. ))
I don't doubt there's a fair audience interested in what they have to say, by web standards - which is the proper standard to measure interest in podcasts, after all. There's definitely a larger audience who doesn't know them from Adam who might hear some ideas they like if they were attracted to listen regularly to podcasts by names they actually knew. If the podcasts are all Forge guys all the time, it's preaching to the choir - same as if it were us non-forge guys all the time.
-clash
Quote from: blakkieI suggested Jong because interviewing Pundit presents some logistical, as well as some personality changes. ;)
Again, the people willing to step up. *shrug* Not everyone is willing to put themselves out there.
But honestly: do you think anyone else even been contacted? I bet you they haven't. I bet you it went like this:
A: "Hey, you guys are always interviewing each other and that gets some comments going.." (eDITORS NOTE: COMMENTS FROM THE SAME PEOPLE, ALSO BUDDIES INSIDE THE WIND TUNNEL, EVERY TIME).
B: "yeah..."
A: "So interview each other again and we'll stick it in our magazine..!"
B: "yeah!"
A: (rubs hands together) "Now I gots me a piece of this podcasting craze!"
How hard is it to send an email and find someone actually interesting?
Considering it's been posted to the whole 'net, this is the only place to have acknowledged its existence, so far (that i know of).
For an interview to be of substance, you need the interviewer to be removed from the interviewee. Ask hard questions, present another point of view and get some discussion going. Otherwise it's an infomertial.
Quote from: Abyssal MawHow hard is it to send an email and find someone actually interesting?
Your money ----> your mouth. Not familar with the phrase?
Quote from: One Horse TownConsidering it's been posted to the whole 'net, this is the only place to have acknowledged its existence, so far (that i know of).
For an interview to be of substance, you need the interviewer to be removed from the interviewee. Ask hard questions, present another point of view and get some discussion going. Otherwise it's an infomertial.
It doesn't even have to be hard questions or confrontational. But it comes down to this:
The entire premise of an interview is that one person is asking another person questions that he doesn't
already know the answers to. Instead we get this Tiger Beat promotional crap that the forgies are always doing, anyway. And the big loss here is that.. Pelgrane Press stands to actually gain so much more in the way of audience if they present some variety. And there's absolutely no shortage of people they
could have an interviewer talk to.
Instead, this movement has officially become the artistic equivalent of Christian rock.
Quote from: flyingmiceJong is not the person. Someone not intimidated or hostile, but not a friend either. One of the valid points AM makes here is these are buddies interviewing each other.
Again, Pundit is a special case. In so many ways. ;) Mostly it's his location. Although you might be able to swing some sort of long distance interview? Maybe it's just that I wouldn't see it as worth the bother? I wouldn't say that of the other people on AM's list mind you.
QuoteFor an interview to be of substance, you need the interviewer to be removed from the interviewee. Ask hard questions, present another point of view and get some discussion going. Otherwise it's an infomertial.[SIC]
Just a guess that that's
why Luke was asked to do it. Friends or not. I've heard a couple of his interviews before, that is him suppositly being interviewed but he's the one that ends doing a lot of the questioning. He has this natural "so exactly what do you mean by that?" bent to him. The interviewer tossed him a softball and you could hear him working to make it into a 'hard' question (AKA one of substance) by asking the interviewer exactly what he ment. :shrug:
Quote from: blakkieYour money ----> your mouth. Not familar with the phrase?
Yeah, I can't parse this. Am I supposed to start up a gaming company now?
This is another one of the unique things of RPG Fandom. We accept the publishers and promoters in our communities as equals, but they occupy a totally different niche from us, and they are here to make money off of us. Thats why I have the right to criticize.
In exchange for this acceptance in our community where they post in our forums and so on, publishers (indie or not) have certain responsibilities to us as
consumers.
Quote from: blakkieJust a guess that that's why Luke was asked to do it. Friends or not. I've heard a couple of his interviews before, that is him suppositly being interviewed but he's the one that ends doing a lot of the questioning. He has this natural "so exactly what do you mean by that?" bent to him. The interviewer tossed him a softball and you could hear him working to make it into a 'hard' question (AKA one of substance) by asking the interviewer exactly what he ment. :shrug:
Possibly. He's a rather intense, aggressive young man. He comes across well in person, but not always so by text, particularly when he's feeling aggrieved.
-clash
Quote from: Abyssal MawYeah, I can't parse this. Am I supposed to start up a gaming company now?
No. Do what you say must be easy. Fire off some emails and get people to do an interview.
Or keep bitching and moaning from your armchair. One of those two.
Quote from: flyingmicePossibly. He's a rather intense, aggressive young man. He comes across well in person, but not always so by text, particularly when he's feeling aggrieved.
Perhaps someday you'll meet me, I suspect I leave a similar impression. :)
P.S. Though the group of people that would refer to me as a 'young man' dwindles. ;)
I don't mean that you have to be a ball-buster or diametrically opposed to the interviewee for it to work as an interview. Just, you know, not from the same club.
Quote from: Abyssal MawYeah, I can't parse this. Am I supposed to start up a gaming company now?
This is another one of the unique things of RPG Fandom. We accept the publishers and promoters in our communities as equals, but they occupy a totally different niche from us, and they are here to make money off of us. Thats why I have the right to criticize.
In exchange for this acceptance in our community where they post in our forums and so on, publishers (indie or not) have certain responsibilities to us as consumers.
Thank you for your suggestions. We've done three interviews before, one with Ken Hite, one with Brennan Taylor and one with Robin. Interviews form a very small proportion of our output. I'm pretty pleased with Luke's interview, but by all means don't listen to it.
See Page XX is free, and mostly written by volunteers. If you or anyone else are interested in interviewing someone "more substantial" by all means, interview the shit out of the them, and if I've heard of them and it's halfway decent I'll publish it.
Quote from: One Horse TownI don't mean that you have to be a ball-buster or diametrically opposed to the interviewee for it to work as an interview. Just, you know, not from the same club.
I agree, Dan. There is a nice space between blowing kisses at each other and facing off with loaded weapons that makes for interesting interviews.
-clash
Quote from: blakkiePerhaps someday you'll meet me, I suspect I leave a similar impression. :)
P.S. Though the group of people that would refer to me as a 'young man' dwindles. ;)
Probably! As I get to know you through your posts, I get to enjoy talking with you more and more. As far as "young" goes, I'm in my fifties, so most people look young to me. :D
-clash
Quote from: PelgraneSee Page XX is free, and mostly written by volunteers. If you or anyone else are interested in interviewing someone "more substantial" by all means, interview the shit out of the them, and if I've heard of them and it's halfway decent I'll publish it.
A very fair offer!
-clash
Quote from: blakkieI'm waiting for someone to interview the shit out of clash.
I would love to do that.
Although, for preference, I'd actually prefer to hear
Andy K do that.
QuoteIf you or anyone else are interested in interviewing someone "more substantial" by all means, interview the shit out of the them, and if I've heard of them and it's halfway decent I'll publish it.
I've considered your offer and I have prepared my counter offer:
"publish something worth listening to and if its any good I'll consider buying something from you, and advocating your company as worthwhile".
I realize I'm being a dick about this, but don't forget which of us is the consumer and which is the promoter hoping to eventually sell something. Whether your magazine is free is of no concern-- it's meant to help promote your company.
Quote from: Abyssal MawI've considered your offer and I have prepared my counter offer:
"publish something worth listening to and if its any good I'll consider buying something from you, and advocating your company as worthwhile".
I realize I'm being a dick about this, but don't forget which of us is the consumer and which is the promoter hoping to eventually sell something. Whether your magazine is free is of no concern-- it's meant to help promote your company.
He may just decide you're not in his target demographic in the first place, AM. :D
-clash
Quote from: Levi KornelsenI would love to do that.
Although, for preference, I'd actually prefer to hear Andy K do that.
No you wouldn't! I'm boring! Bill would be much better! Think of the squirrel angle!
-clahs
Quote from: flyingmiceHe may just decide you're not in his target demographic in the first place, AM. :D
-clash
Oh, I'm definitely not. I realize that. But he's posting it here, so I guess he has to at least consider that.
Quote from: flyingmiceNo you wouldn't! I'm boring! Bill would be much better! Think of the squirrel angle!
-clahs
So clash, Starcluster 2, sim or nar? :D
I keed, i keed.
Quote from: flyingmiceNo you wouldn't! I'm boring! Bill would be much better! Think of the squirrel angle!
I don't know any of Bill's games well enough.
With you, I'd have a topic. Most of your stuff (that I've seen) is quite slim - or, at least, avoids the huge-sprawling-book thing, while remaining firmly aimed at very, very seriously emulating key parts of the setting it's based on, and doing so right in the mechanics.
That's not as common as you might think. And therefore would be fun to dig into.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenWith you, I'd have a topic. Most of your stuff (that I've seen) is quite slim - or, at least, avoids the huge-sprawling-book thing, while remaining firmly aimed at very, very seriously emulating key parts of the setting it's based on, and doing so right in the mechanics.
That's not as common as you might think. And therefore would be fun to dig into.
Exactly. I'm very serious about wanting to hear an interview of him.
Clash, is there anyone [that isn't a 'friend' I guess? although I think more fuss is being made of that than necessary] that you'd feel comfortable taking a swing at being interviewed by? Maybe it won't be some sort of polished gem or something. But as a listener I don't expect it to be all sorted out for me. I've got to have my brain turned on too.
Ok, maybe you'll come out like this fun-loving guy that laughs and does funny voices. :shrug: Do you really think you could say something worse than Vincent Baker saying he published Kill Puppies For Satan without ever once playing the game? :)
EDIT: Maybe if you think of it as being part of a book tour for the new IHW, sort of a necessary evil of the business, that might help? ;)
Quote from: Levi KornelsenI don't know any of Bill's games well enough.
With you, I'd have a topic. Most of your stuff (that I've seen) is quite slim - or, at least, avoids the huge-sprawling-book thing, while remaining firmly aimed at very, very seriously emulating key parts of the setting it's based on, and doing so right in the mechanics.
That's not as common as you might think. And therefore would be fun to dig into.
I'm a bit bewildered, but I am always happy to talk to anyone about my games. Thing is, not all my games are focused - StarCluster is
really sprawling - so that applies only to the IHW series really.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceI'm a bit bewildered, but I am always happy to talk to anyone about my games. Thing is, not all my games are focused - StarCluster is really sprawling - so that applies only to the IHW series really.
-clash
Mind if I start up an "interview" thread in Design?
Quote from: Levi KornelsenMind if I start up an "interview" thread in Design?
Go ahead if you want, Levi.
-clash
Quote from: Abyssal MawI've considered your offer and I have prepared my counter offer:
"publish something worth listening to and if its any good I'll consider buying something from you, and advocating your company as worthwhile".
I realize I'm being a dick about this, but don't forget which of us is the consumer and which is the promoter hoping to eventually sell something. Whether your magazine is free is of no concern-- it's meant to help promote your company.
Thank you for that datapoint.
Part of the reason I do Page XX is to promote the company, but it's by no means the main reason.
I take there isn't a single article or download we've published on Page XX that you have found worthwhile? If this isn't the case I look forward to your consumption and advocacy.
Quote from: Abyssal MawThe entire premise of an interview is that one person is asking another person questions that he doesn't already know the answers to.
Er, not a journalist, then?
EDIT: Simon - you are a class act. A tip of the old chapeaux to you, Sir.
Ned
Quote from: PelgraneThank you for that datapoint.
Part of the reason I do Page XX is to promote the company, but it's by no means the main reason.
Well, that's the reason you (and people like you) are allowed to come into our community and post stuff in this particular forum, isn't it? You want to advertise your stuff. Which is great. Otherwise you'd be a community participant. You'd be in a forum a few lines up, talking about how much you love dice pools or talking about your furry-based Traveller campaign or how much you hate 4E or... something. Is this confusing to anyone? You're obviously welcome to be here, but don't mistake your role. If you'd been smart you'd have realized that you never had to respond to my first post; the rhetorical question was posed to the other community participants here.
QuoteI take there isn't a single article or download we've published on Page XX that you have found worthwhile? If this isn't the case I look forward to your consumption and advocacy.
My issue is that you are here to promote the forgies, who are overexposed, intellectually dishonest, and have a hilariously bloated sense of entitlement. If you want to associate with them, that's your business, but neither Pelgrane nor Profantasy benefits in any way from their philosophy. And bringing them in here and holding them up as a point of interest in your publication was either a sign of ignorance of how they have been received here in the past or a direct taunt.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyEr, not a journalist, then?
EDIT: Simon - you are a class act. A tip of the old chapeaux to you, Sir.
Ned
Why, thank you.
Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, that's the reason you (and people like you) are allowed to come into our community and post stuff in this particular forum, isn't it?
This is priceless when preceded in a previous post by...
Quote from: Abyssal Maw in a previous thread bleated...have certain responsibilities to us as consumers.
((What would that be? To post excusively only things
YOU want to see?))
...and also followed up by...
QuoteMy issue is that you are here to promote the forgies, who are overexposed, intellectually dishonest, and have a hilariously bloated sense of entitlement.
...and...
QuoteIf you want to associate with them, that's your business, but neither Pelgrane nor Profantasy benefits in any way from their philosophy. And bringing them in here and holding them up as a point of interest in your publication was either a sign of ignorance of how they have been received here in the past or a direct taunt.
Well. (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=189080&postcount=66) Yeah that surprised me a little to but....
You "realize [you're] being a dick about this"? Maybe when you grow the fuck up you might seem like only a dick about this.
Quote from: Abyssal MawMy issue is that you are here to promote the forgies, who are overexposed, intellectually dishonest, and have a hilariously bloated sense of entitlement. If you want to associate with them, that's your business, but neither Pelgrane nor Profantasy benefits in any way from their philosophy. And bringing them in here and holding them up as a point of interest in your publication was either a sign of ignorance of how they have been received here in the past or a direct taunt.
I have no desire to display ignorance or taunt you in any way.
So, if I post a link in future, would you like me to remove any links to articles by or about "the Forgies" before I post?
Quote from: flyingmiceI'm a bit bewildered, but I am always happy to talk to anyone about my games. Thing is, not all my games are focused - StarCluster is really sprawling - so that applies only to the IHW series really.
...and I want to hear
why [you think] that is! But I see the dream is now dead. :( The dream of you 1/2 way through a 20 minute interview breaking out your best Pee-Wee Herman laugh/quote. :haw:
But I'll definately settle for the thread in Design. :win:
Quote from: PelgraneI have no display ignorance or taunt you in any way.
So, if I post a link in future, would you like me to remove any links to articles by or about "the Forgies" before I post?
Absolutely not. Not at all.
But don't be shocked by how they are received negatively or how that reflects on you, either.
Quote from: Abyssal MawBut don't be shocked by how they are received negatively or how that reflects on you, either.
Right, we've either reached an impasse or an agreement - I'm confused as to which. I will continue to post links and I do resolve not be shocked. I haven't heard from you how I can fulfil your offer - that is publish on Page XX something to your satisfaction, if I don't know what you have enjoyed, if anything, about the content.
If you are ever willing to contribute anything, even something negative about "the Forgies" and it reaches our not insurmountable standards, I'd be happy to publish it.
Thanks Simon.
First thing first...
Pelgrane/Simon - thanks for all the Gumshoe games you publish. I play them to my satisfaction. They are fun. I also like Robin Laws articles on Page XX, they are usually quite witty.
The Forge interview I don't get though. It has no connection to Page XX or your production it is just cheap advertisment to Forge products I find unsatisfing.
I am evaluating every product based on its own quality, that is why I will support Gumshoe in future as well, but I must say, that cooperation with the Forge or its members does not improve your company image in my eyes. Sorry.
I know we talked about having an RPG Site podcast once, but I don't think it ever took off. We have enough smart folks and interesting publishers around here--it'd be nice to see it happen.