http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6387611.stm

Spears today, ak's tomorrow!!!!

I was just reading this.  A few years ago I saw a Gorilla take a branch and strip off the bark and smaller branches so that she could reach up through the roof of her enclosure to bat at a hanging overhead light.  Definitely seemed to be making/using a tool to me.

When is someone going to come along and claim the chimp on monkey violence is a learned behavior caused by the interference of Man on their habitat?

Quote from: StumpydaveSpears today...

I got confused.  I thought that you were somehow making a connection between apes and Brittney Spears.  Hunh.

!i!

Quote from: James McMurrayWhen is someone going to come along and claim the chimp on monkey violence is a learned behavior caused by the interference of Man on their habitat?

If they do come along, can I smack them?  Please?

Apes is fuckin' vicious, don't ever get confused.

There's a reason for the expression "ape-shit"

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI got confused.  I thought that you were somehow making a connection between apes and Brittney Spears.  Hunh.

!i!

DUH. He was implying apes were able to make spears, or close to it.

Apes did not make Spears.  Her grasping little mother is responsible for the way she turned out.  Her and Disney.

!i!

Quote from: StuartI was just reading this.  A few years ago I saw a Gorilla take a branch and strip off the bark and smaller branches so that she could reach up through the roof of her enclosure to bat at a hanging overhead light.  Definitely seemed to be making/using a tool to me.

This is just the latest of many examples, chimps in the gombi forest use rocks to smash nuts; thai forest chimps use sticks to "fish" for termites*. I did find this example really interesting, though, because there is a real drive in western science, dating back to the early days Darwin's theory, to seperate Humans from animals. Everyone from linguists to paleoanthropologists have indulged in it. Two very good books that touch on this are Roger Fouts' Next of Kin and Roger Lewin's Bones of Contention. To get a look at the same phenomenon from the religious side of the fence, check out The Creationsits by Daniel Numbers.
Personally I find the idea that we are different in degree rather than kind to be rather beautiful.


*I might have my forests backwards, and I'm too tired to look it up.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaApes did not make Spears.  Her grasping little mother is responsible for the way she turned out.  Her and Disney.

!i!

You can't always blame the parents for they way their children turn out. Sometimes even the best of parents have bad offspring.

Quote from: Dominus NoxYou can't always blame the parents for they way their children turn out. Sometimes even the best of parents have bad offspring.

MUST...RESIST...URGE...TO...POST.........

Don't do it, Dave.  The karma visited upon you will be tenfold.  Be the water.

Hey, that said, anyone here ever heard of Fu Manchu the orang-utan?  Try Googling him up.  Crazy stuff.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaDon't do it, Dave.  The karma visited upon you will be tenfold.  Be the water.

Hey, that said, anyone here ever heard of Fu Manchu the orang-utan?  Try Googling him up.  Crazy stuff.

!i!

"Fu Manchu" is an offensive anti-chinese stereotype, you anti-asian racist bigot.

Tool use of itself isn't particularly new, it's using tools to make other tools that is new.

That was another supposedly unique to humans trait.

Quote from: BalbinusTool use of itself isn't particularly new, it's using tools to make other tools that is new.

That was another supposedly unique to humans trait.

Just last night I saw something about a crow in japan that drops heard shelled nuts on a crosswalk in japan, waits for a car to run over them and crach the shells, then waits for the crossing light to come on, goes down and eats the nutmeat out of the broken shell.

People generally won't step on it, and in fact the japanese are polite enough to avoid it, then it takes off after grabbing the nutmeat.

May have to drop "birdbrain" from my list on insults.....

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaDon't do it, Dave.  The karma visited upon you will be tenfold.  Be the water.

Hey, that said, anyone here ever heard of Fu Manchu the orang-utan?  Try Googling him up.  Crazy stuff.

!i!

What a cool oran! Quick google fu on fu manchu:

QuoteThe Harry Houdini of the primate world

Orangutans are known to be clever tool-users. One in particular became especially well-known for it. An orangutan named Fu Manchu lived at the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, Neb. In 1968, he found a way to escape. "It was a game to him," said zoo director Lee Simmons. Workers would come to the zoo in the morning and find Fu and his family in the trees outside their compound. The keepers would have to round them up and coax them back into their enclosure.

At first, head keeper Jerry Stones thought someone must have left the door to the compound unlocked. But no one admitted they might have done it.

When it happened again, Mr. Stones figured he was going to have to fire some careless worker. But after the third escape, he started to watch the orangutans carefully. Finally, he caught Fu Manchu in the act. The primate was slipping down to a door that connected the compound with the furnace room. Then, incredibly, he was using a piece of wire to slip under the latch and open the door.

To keep Fu from masterminding any more escapes, zookeepers were careful to remove from the cage any wire or other objects that might be used to unlatch the door.

But Fu wasn't about to give up. One day, Stones noticed that Fu had something in his mouth. Suspicious, Stones checked. Sure enough, Fu had bent a piece of wire so that he could hide it around his gums. He had been storing his latest lock pick in his mouth.