In response to a thread attacking me, and, as usual calling me a "RACIST!!!", I'd just like to say that you people calling me that are fucking morons who don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
I bust on islam, hell yeah! But guess what?
ISLAM IS A RELIGION, NOT A RACE!!!
Saying that busting on islam because most muslims are arab is like saying that busting on nasism is racism against white people because most nazis were white, you fucking idiots.
When I bust on islam, I'm busting on an ideology, not a race.
Now go ahead and flame this thread, fucktards. Show your total ignorance for all the world to see. Act like good little PC pod people, point and me, open your big mouths and shriek the attack signal "RAAAAAAAAAAAA CIIIIIIIIIIIST!"
I wear your accusations of "RACISM!!!" as badges of honor.
Quote from: Dominus NoxI wear your accusations of "RACISM!!!" as badges of honor.
Of course you do, racists often do that.
And it's not just the Islamic thing, it's also your frequent defence of the KKK and of individuals arrested for race hate crimes. It's a pattern of behaviour, not this one issue.
Quote from: Dominus Nox. Show your total ignorance for all the world to see. I wear your accusations of "RACISM!!!" as badges of honor.
Ignorance seems to be your speciality.Are you mad because you perceive some others as being a threat to your title as the site ignoramus?:D
Quote from: Dominus NoxShow your total ignorance for all the world to see.
Dude, you should get that printed on a t-shirt.
Okay, Nox, I'm going to try and explain this without calling you a racist. Whether you are or not is not actually my concern. I just want to explain to you why you're getting called one.
Firstly, as people have pointed out, many Muslims are Arabs. But further, the vast majority of Muslims live in places where the population is not white, even when not Arab. Malays, Filipinos, Indonesians, Africans, Indians, Central Asians and Chinese (as well as Arabs) make up the faces you'll see at Mecca.
The liberal conscience notices that Muslims are predominantly a dark, Third World people and grows uncomfortable when they are attacked. By habit, the oppressed are spoken of kindly, with charity. It's bad form to say that Third Worlders are backward savages, because most people don't like to consider how their lifestyle depends on the Third World remaining pretty much as it is, and how much their governments and businessmen have done to make that so.
Quote from: droogOkay, Nox, I'm going to try and explain this without calling you a racist. Whether you are or not is not actually my concern. I just want to explain to you why you're getting called one.
Firstly, as people have pointed out, many Muslims are Arabs. But further, the vast majority of Muslims live in places where the population is not white, even when not Arab. Malays, Filipinos, Indonesians, Africans, Indians, Central Asians and Chinese (as well as Arabs) make up the faces you'll see at Mecca.
The liberal conscience notices that Muslims are predominantly a dark, Third World people and grows uncomfortable when they are attacked. By habit, the oppressed are spoken of kindly, with charity. It's bad form to say that Third Worlders are backward savages, because most people don't like to consider how their lifestyle depends on the Third World remaining pretty much as it is, and how much their governments and businessmen have done to make that so.
Actually, I suspect we largely could maintain our current lifestyles while also improving the lot of the third world, however there isn't any money in it so we don't.
Now, our governments and businesses do keep them much as they are, but not I think to preserve our lifestyle as because it's more profitable in the short term to do so.
Edit: Also, the suspicion is that Nox hates moslems because it is a predominantly non-white religion, it's not a liberal thing, Nox has shown signs of racism on many occasions and I at least think he hates Islam because he sees it as a religion for foreigners, particularly dark skinned foreigners. I think if Islam were common in the midwest or in a predominantly white nation, he would not have much of an issue with it.
Quote from: droogThe liberal conscience notices that Muslims are predominantly a dark, Third World people and grows uncomfortable when they are attacked. By habit, the oppressed are spoken of kindly, with charity. It's bad form to say that Third Worlders are backward savages, because most people don't like to consider how their lifestyle depends on the Third World remaining pretty much as it is, and how much their governments and businessmen have done to make that so.
droog,
No.
What you wrote above is not only painting badly with a broad brush, but it provides Nox with a plausible excuse for maintaining his ignorance. Stumping for "bourgeois snobbery" is as accurate and sensible as Nox dismissing all rebukes as accusations of "RACISM!!!"
!i!
Well, Nox? Let's have a response from you before I tackle these guys.
Bring it on, ya dirty pinko. :p
!i!
Quote from: BalbinusAnd it's not just the Islamic thing, it's also your frequent defence of the KKK and of individuals arrested for race hate crimes. It's a pattern of behaviour, not this one issue.
I dunno... I was called a racist several times for the crime of quoting and relying on as a valid source the 1st ID guide to Iraq and I'm pretty damn sure there was no KKK-defending pattern in my case.
Something else I've noticed is that people frequently just call Nox a racist, without bothering to attack the actual positions he's taking.
In other words, they're just attacking him.
Edit: And I'm not really defending Nox because most of what he says I disagree with.
I think people here use the racist label intentionally to derail conversations. When you call someone a racist, the actual conversation stops and changes into either that person defending himself or a discussion of what was said that was racist.
The mods at RPG.net also use the racist thing as a bludgeon.
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckSomething else I've noticed is that people frequently just call Nox a racist, without bothering to attack the actual positions he's taking.
Really? Because the only person I've seen level the exact accusation of "racist" at him (since I joined in October 2006) has been JimBobOz. In my experience, people here frequently call him an ignoramous. Oh, and...
QuoteI think people here use the racist label intentionally to derail conversations.
I think some people here use the "RACIST!!!" label in reference to themselves in opening posts to actually open whole threads. Repeatedly.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaReally? Because the only person I've seen level the exact accusation of "racist" at him (since I joined in October 2006) has been JimBobOz. In my experience, people here frequently call him an ignoramous. Oh, and...I think some people here use the "RACIST!!!" label in reference to themselves in opening posts to actually open whole threads. Repeatedly.
!i!
Shrugs.
Again, I dont really have an informed opinion about how often he's called what by who.
Just pointing out that it isn't always some rational decision to label someone based on a pattern of behavior since Yamo called me racist out of the fucking blue toward arabs, and then a post later, in jumping on T-Willard and calling HIM a racist, implied I was racist to blacks as well.
Quote from: Dominus NoxI bust on islam, hell yeah! But guess what?
ISLAM IS A RELIGION, NOT A RACE!!!
(http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/who/pics/eichmann.jpg)
"I bust on Jews, hell yeah! But guess what? Jewish is a religion, not a race!"
Oh well, that's alright, then. :confused:
The point is that those who are prejudiced against Moslems, you'll find that
- they assume that all Arabs are Moslems,
- aren't aware that the largest Islamic country in the world is Indonesia,
- don't know that milions of Moslems are Chinese or Caucasian with light eyes and hair, or are quite dark African,
- think that Iranians are Arab,
- lump all Moslem countries in together as being like Saudi Arabia with women locked up, being utterly ignorant of the fact that the position of women in Turkey - a Moslem country - is superior to the position of women in Portugal or Greece.
So, people who hate Moslems don't make the race/religion distinction
except when accused of racism. They think the distinctions between Sunni and Shi'ia, Wahabbi and Sufi, Arab and Iranian, Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Sunni Moslems, Turkey and Saudi Arabia - those distinctions are unimportant. "Those bastards are all the same!"
When you ignore distinctions between different groups, lumping them together, when you assume common negative or positive characteristics to a group based on the mental grouping you've made - that's racism.
For example, if I said, "all Africans are stupid black bastards," that would be racism. The fact that "African" is not a race, that in fact Yoruba, Berber, Ibo, Hutu, Zulu, etc are the races - that there's no such thing as an "African"
as a race, would not make me not racist. It just would make me
ignorant as well as racist.
You're saying that your failure to distinguish between the different groups in the world means you're not racist - but in fact, your very ignorance is racist.
Quote from: RPGObjects_ChuckI dunno... I was called a racist several times for the crime of quoting and relying on as a valid source the 1st ID guide to Iraq and I'm pretty damn sure there was no KKK-defending pattern in my case.
As far as I've seen, you were not called racist. It was said that the 1st ID guide to Iraq was racist, and its ignorance and wrongness were a good explanation for the miserable mess in Iraq. At no time did anyone say, "Chuck, if you believe that shit you're racist."
It's always best to respond to what people actually say, not what you think they're saying, or the elaborate confused concoction of different poster's comments which you brew up and then respond to.
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckI think people here use the racist label intentionally to derail conversations. When you call someone a racist, the actual conversation stops and changes into either that person defending himself or a discussion of what was said that was racist.
You can't derail a conversation that was never there. Nobody has conversations with Dominus Nox anyway. A conversation goes like this.
Anna: "I think X, because of Y."
Bob: "I agree broadly, but about Y there's some doubt, because of Z."
Anna: "Z is true in itself, but if you think about A, then it looks different."
etc
One person speaks, another responds - the response being to what the other person actually said. Dominus Nox doesn't
respond to people. He ignores 90% of comments directed at him. He just sits there tapping away at his keyboard, ranting. He's stupid.
That, after all, is what "stupid" originally means - that you don't absorb things. You know, like "stupor" - when you're in a stupor, you're unable to receive external stimulus. Your eyes are open, but you do not see; your ears are oen, but you do not hear; your hands are present, but you do not feel. You're in a stupor. Stupid. Dominus Nox doesn't hear or respond to what people say to him in an attempt to have a conversation with him - he's stupid.
You can't derail a conversation that was never there.
Dominus Nox: yep, you're right. But even a stupid, prejudiced, ignoramus of a broken clock is right twice a day.
Quote from: JimBobOz"I bust on Jews, hell yeah! But guess what? Jewish is a religion, not a race!"
Oh well, that's alright, then. :confused:
Not to appear like I'm defending that twat but I'd like to point out that there are several ways one can define a "jew". One of which is through ancestry.
Jews tend to define themselves (or be defined by others) as a
people a lot more often than say, Christians, Muslims or Buddhists.
Quote from: JimBobOzAs far as I've seen, you were not called racist. It was said that the 1st ID guide to Iraq was racist, and its ignorance and wrongness were a good explanation for the miserable mess in Iraq. At no time did anyone say, "Chuck, if you believe that shit you're racist."
It's always best to respond to what people actually say, not what you think they're saying, or the elaborate confused concoction of different poster's comments which you brew up and then respond to.
Again, I really didn't want to derail Nox's post about himself... but...
QuoteAs Chevy Chase might say:
"RPGObjects_chuck, you ignorant slut..."
Here's some actual informed reading on the racist, xenophobic, anti-intellectual source material used in compiling your precious "1st infantry" propaganda handbook. I hope to God your bigot ass chokes to death on it, a circumstance under which I would be more than happy to close my heart to pity.
http://dir.salon.com/story/books/fea...ind/index.html
It's real hard to miss the intent there.
He also called T-Willard a bigot a couple posts later, for the crime of defending me and the 1st ID handbook.
I don't think I misread anything.
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckIt's real hard to miss the intent there.
He also called T-Willard a bigot a couple posts later, for the crime of defending me and the 1st ID handbook.
I don't think I misread anything.
That's fair. But you missed the "=so-and-so" on the quote tag. Who said that?
Whoever said that to you, he's a cocksmock, and wrong. If you read the 1st ID handbook to learn about Arabs, then plainly you are a drongo, and should choose your sources better. But it's not evidence of racism.
Whereas Dominus Nox's incoherent rants
are evidence of racism. Also of too much time living amongst empty pizza boxes and Mountain Dew bottles, stinking up his parents' basement.
It was Yamo who said it and yeah, he's an asshole.
And no, I didn't read the 1st ID handbook to learn about Arab culture, but I did think it made some good points about why we seem to be consistently caught flat-footed over there.
My actual point at the time (badly stated I admit) was that had we actually listened to the Army's foreign area officers who specialized in the middle east, rather than cashiering them all from the service for unpopular opinions, that we'd be doing a lot better right now.
Quote from: JimBobOzlump all Moslem countries in together as being like Saudi Arabia with women locked up, being utterly ignorant of the fact that the position of women in Turkey - a Moslem country - is superior to the position of women in Portugal or Greece.
Turkey is a secular republic whose military takes a famously dim view of the Islamic religion going any farther in the public sphere than private practise of the faith. The tanks tend to roll whenever the general feel the advocates of political Islam are making any headway. The position of women is Turkey is because of this often-ruthless suppression of Islam from the political sphere.
I admit that Ataturk is one of the few dictators I can admire. Pretty much the only one of the breed who actually left his country better off after he died.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaReally? Because the only person I've seen level the exact accusation of "racist" at him (since I joined in October 2006) has been JimBobOz.
!i!
In fact, I did it yesterday (I think it was yesterday) in a different thread. When Nox says Muslim, he means brown people (and probably black people, too). Oh sure, he won't admit it; in fact, we see him vociferously denying his racism constantly on the basis that if he doesn't use the word "black" when he's talking about the brown people he hates, it MUST NOT be racism. The key to not being labeled a racist is simply to avoid identifying the skin color of the people he's futilely hating. Right?
Quote from: SamarkandTurkey is a secular republic whose military takes a famously dim view of the Islamic religion going any farther in the public sphere than private practise of the faith. The tanks tend to roll whenever the general feel the advocates of political Islam are making any headway. The position of women is Turkey is because of this often-ruthless suppression of Islam from the political sphere.
I admit that Ataturk is one of the few dictators I can admire. Pretty much the only one of the breed who actually left his country better off after he died.
My best friend and his wife spent a good 6 months in Turkey, and he said she took to covering her face whenever in public, because while the government may not be Sharia or anything, there's enough of the population who goes for that kind of attitude that she frankly didn't feel safe without it.
This was also, apparently, partly because while American, she's of half-Syria descent, and looks it too. She said that more white looking visitors and tourists seemed to get treated quite normally.
She looked like a local, and they expected her to go with the local customs.
J, not to dismiss your freind's wife's feelings on the matter, but I have spent a fair amount of time with some Turkish women, and been there as well. In the urban areas of Turkey she would actually stand out more trying to wear the headscarf. In the poor rural regions, hardline islamic tradionalism is very common however.
A young woman of my aquaintence (my turkish language teacher, actually) shared her slideshows from her visits home to her family, including shots of her and her sisters who still lived there in nightclubs in little black dresses, beach scenes with women in revealing swimsuits. I'm not about to say it's a feminist paradise, but perhaps your friend's wife was overly paranoid?
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckI dunno... I was called a racist several times for the crime of quoting and relying on as a valid source the 1st ID guide to Iraq and I'm pretty damn sure there was no KKK-defending pattern in my case.
I can't speak for others and you may well have a point, however for me it's not one post or one source. We all make mistakes, we all have legitimate differences in view, if Yamo called you a racist I think that reflects more on him than you.
With Nox though as far as I'm concerned there is a consistent pattern, he's posted repeatedly in defence of the KKK or individuals arrested for race hate, he constantly brings up Islam in order to attack it, I honestly think based on his posting history that he is a racist.
Of course, I could be wrong, but it's not a conclusion I reach lightly.