Quote from: RPGPundit;226579Jesus Christ. Look, Watchmen is the ONLY comic book ever written that truly qualifies for the title of "literature". If it had been a novel instead of a comic book, Alan Moore would be thought of as one of the defining authors of the 20th century, at least along the same line as Gibson.

Yeah.  No, on multiple counts.

There are better comic books out there than Watchman, comics that aren't anywhere near as derivative and unoriginal.  Even the basic conceits of the series, which purported to turn superhero comics on their ear, was far from original.  For example, Mike Baron had been writing Badger for several years when Watchmen came out, and Badger contained a lot of the basic ideas of Watchmen (though it was more "madcap" than the very serious Watchmen).

Also, dude, nobody outside a handful of geeks considers William Gibson a defining author of the 20th Century.

Quote from: Haffrung;226799Really, I'm surprised you revere the Watchmen, pundit; it exemplifies the sort of psuedo-intellectual dross that you decry in the efforts of Forgites.

Yes, this.  QFT, etc.

It's the only graphic novel i've ever read and i really liked it.

I'll hand in my geek cred card at the front desk...

The trailer looks slicker and nicer than I was hoping it would be. The world of the Watchmen always seemed very grainy, rough and worn-out, whereas the sets here look like they got borrowed from the Batman franchise.

As far as Alan Moore's work goes, I prefer Miracle Man and Promethea, but the Watchmen is pretty good. It's getting a lot of hate right now because the movie's coming out and everyone wants to play at having superior taste to the masses.

Quote from: Jackalope;226835There are better comic books out there than Watchman, comics that aren't anywhere near as derivative and unoriginal.  Even the basic conceits of the series, which purported to turn superhero comics on their ear, was far from original.  For example, Mike Baron had been writing Badger for several years when Watchmen came out, and Badger contained a lot of the basic ideas of Watchmen (though it was more "madcap" than the very serious Watchmen).

Dude, most of the time you suck, but The Badger!  Fuck yeah!

Quote from: Jackalope;226835Mike Baron had been writing Badger for several years when Watchmen came out, and Badger contained a lot of the basic ideas of Watchmen (though it was more "madcap" than the very serious Watchmen).

I never read Badger but the Baron/Rude Nexus was an early favorite at the time I "seriously" got into comics. It lost its way IMO sometime around when Rude began taking time off, but if it can be considered a "superhero" comic, I'd say it's one of the better and more "mature" ones.

(Then again, Baron also did the execrable World of Ginger Fox. WTF was he thinking?)

Quote from: StormBringer;226859Dude, most of the time you suck, but The Badger!  Fuck yeah!

Fuck yeah twice!

Badger ruled.  I got one of my letters printed in Badger.  I was very psyched about that.

You know that Nexus is coming out again, with Baron writing and Rude drawing.  It's Steve Rude's own publishing house and the Nexus stories are definitely up to par.

To this day I find it to be an exceptionally powerful and accomplished piece of storytelling. In my mind Moore has written significantly better work since (From Hellin particular), but Watchmen remains without doubt one of the most important comic books ever published. It's enormous influence isn't byproduct of blind fandom, either. It fully deserves its reputation as a contemporary masterpiece.

Quote from: Drew;226931To this day I find it to be an exceptionally powerful and accomplished piece of storytelling. In my mind Moore has written significantly better work since (From Hellin particular), but Watchmen remains without doubt one of the most important comic books ever published. It's enormous influence isn't byproduct of blind fandom, either. It fully deserves its reputation as a contemporary masterpiece.

Uhhhh...  Whatever.

The Badger!  Grim Jack!  Dynamo Joe!

First Comics was fucking awesome.

Which Mike Grell project did FIRST publish originally? Was it Jon Sable Freelance or was it that Star*!Slayer thing?


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;226938Which Mike Grell project did FIRST publish originally? Was it Jon Sable Freelance or was it that Star*!Slayer thing?


- Ed C.

Well, Starslayer was moved over from Pacifc Comics, so Jon Sable would have been the one published by First comics... errr... first.

Quote from: StormBringer;226935Uhhhh...  Whatever.

Indeed.

Quote from: Drew;227035Indeed.

But, what do you think about First Comics?

Let's see, was Scout by First or the other company?  I can't recall.  I loved Scout.  There's a movie for you!

Anyhow, I love Watchmen warts and all.  Much like the much lauded X-men run of Clairmont and Byrne it's better than it really is.  Reading today one loses far too much of the context of the market when it was written.

Yes Allan Moore is a real piece of work.  No Watchmen isn't Shakespear, neither is Neuromancer.  Quality isn't what defines a work as altering a genre.  Because the seminal work always seems trite relative to what it inspired.  Tolkien reads like a low budget D&D game by a pretentious fanboy if you aren't aware of their chronological order.  (and yes I, love LotR)

The trailer looks good to me.  Great even.  Naturally the action parts are what gets the focus in the trailer.

Also, a big problem with The Watchmen was that the last episode took like a year to come out. So you had everyone waiting on the edge of their seat for the big bad secret and when it came, it was kind of deflating.  If you read it straight through, it's much more effective.

(though you could certainly argue that that ending presaged 9/11 and its failure to galvanize society in a very prescient way).

And I don't want to hear any cheap criticism of Alan Moore by anyone who hasn't read From Hell.  I notice I got no response on that, which suggests to me that it hasn't actually been read.  Now that is a great fucking comic book.