Oh boy, I can't see what could possibly go wrong.
https://screenrant.com/zorro-female-series-nbc-cw-move-network-update/
There was a serial back in 1944 called Zorro's Black Whip, starring Linda Sterling as Zorro's niece who takes over the family business.
It seems they had partial rights to use Zorro in the title, but Zorro himself doesn't appear in the serial, or get mentioned by name. Linda Sterling's character is called The Black Whip, but is clearly a Zorro type character who uses a whip and pistols instead of a sword.
Also, everyone thinks The Black Whip is a man, including her boyfriend.
It was kinda fun, you can find the whole thing in the public domain.
This was implied in the conclusion to the relatively recent Mask of Zorro film. The new Zorro, male, married the daughter of Don de la Vega. And their firstborn was a girl.
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine "zorra", you're not saying what you think you're saying. ;D
Quote from: Trond on January 16, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine "zorra", you're not saying what you think you're saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)
Quote from: Trond on January 15, 2022, 02:04:19 PM
Oh boy, I can't see what could possibly go wrong.
It's hard for me to care about something like this when the owner of Zorro is 100% behind it. If they want to ruin their character, they can ruin their character.
However, I feel that there is something else going on here. I'm not completely convinced that this isn't a work. Create a terrible version of an legacy character and let everyone get upset. Then, a few years later, introduce a new version that's closer to the source material and claim you "listened to the fans" to get another round of positive buzz. The Sonic movie from 2020 or Ghostbusters Afterlife are examples of this.
Of course, others have speculated that this is just a means of circumventing the problem with this character being in the public domain. The more versions of the character that you can publish, the less likely that anyone will get away with using the public domain books as possible source material.
Was going to mention the female Zorro from the 40s but have been beaten to the punch-line. There was also the Queen of Swords TV series from around 2000 which while not a female Zorro. Was a female swordswoman in mid 1800s California who is pretty much Zorro in all but name and gender.
As for the creator of Zorro being on board for this? Um, news flash... He died over 60 years ago.
Also, the heroine in Queen of Swords was established as being subject to human biology. She wasn't as strong as a man, so she had to rely on her wits to win against men. I think it's a great way to show how women can fight without ignoring biology. It's very dangerous to teach young girls that they can beat men in fights through brute force.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 16, 2022, 09:34:02 AM
Quote from: Trond on January 16, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine "zorra", you're not saying what you think you're saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)
Well, the word vixen doesn't have purely positive connections in English either.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vixen
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zorra#Spanish
Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:10:15 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 16, 2022, 09:34:02 AM
Quote from: Trond on January 16, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine "zorra", you're not saying what you think you're saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)
Well, the word vixen doesn't have purely positive connections in English either.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vixen
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zorra#Spanish
Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.
Therefore, Zorrx.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:10:15 PM
Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.
The not so positive reading is what comes out of Google autotranslate. Try translating "she's a real fox" to Spanish and then back to English again 😀
Quote from: Trond on January 17, 2022, 10:26:27 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:10:15 PM
Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.
The not so positive reading is what comes out of Google autotranslate. Try translating "she's a real fox" to Spanish and then back to English again 😀
LOL. Reminds me of that story I saw about the 'LGBTQ-friendly' cryptocurrency being launched. Except they called it 'Maricoin'. Which is a bit too close to 'maricon'.
I am not a Spanish speaker but my understanding is that unless you're trying to pick a fight, you probably shouldn't use 'maricon' in conversation.
Quote from: Omega on January 16, 2022, 11:12:46 AM
Was going to mention the female Zorro from the 40s but have been beaten to the punch-line.
Neither the character from the 40s, nor the Queen of Swords character were actually named Zorro. To my knowledge, this is the first time a woman will be named Zorro in a production with all the rights to Zorro (that is, ZPI, the trademark holders).
QuoteAs for the creator of Zorro being on board for this? Um, news flash... He died over 60 years ago.
I specifically said owner, not creator. What the creator thinks is irrelevant, even if he was still alive.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:07:12 PMIt's very dangerous to teach young girls that they can beat men in fights through brute force.
Yes, but it has resulted in some pretty hilarious YouTube videos.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 16, 2022, 10:45:28 AM
It's hard for me to care about something like this when the owner of Zorro is 100% behind it. If they want to ruin their character, they can ruin their character.
So when DO you care?
Quote from: Trond on January 17, 2022, 07:02:26 PMSo when DO you care?
I'd care if a company was making a good product that respected their established IP. But if a company is trying to create a controversy by changing the sex of a historic character, then the worst thing for me to do would be to react to such a change. That's what they want.
FYI, The original Zorro novel, The Mark of Zorro by Johnston McCulley, came out in 1924.
The first novel keeps Zorro's true identity a mystery up until the big reveal at the end. It's an interesting choice, but the cat's out of the bag now.
There are five Zorro books by McCulley up on Amazon. I've only read the first one, which was a perfectly good adventure novel.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:07:12 PM
Also, the heroine in Queen of Swords was established as being subject to human biology. She wasn't as strong as a man, so she had to rely on her wits to win against men. I think it's a great way to show how women can fight without ignoring biology. It's very dangerous to teach young girls that they can beat men in fights through brute force.
Well, many of the movies out there use certain weapons that end up favored by women, like rapiers and Bows. A rapier is quite heavy and one handed. A bow, especially a war bow starts at a draw of around 65 pounds. These are NOT weapons that are going to be any good, at all, for most women to use. A two handed weapon is much more appropriate if you lack physical strength, there is a reason the Naginata was considered the "Women's weapon" in some circles in medieval Japan. I never understand why they do not allow the female fighter to use a spear, it is light, fast, and with two hands on it, can do a whole lot to work around a stronger opponent, especially with efficient use of footwork and reach.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:39:41 PM
Well, many of the movies out there use certain weapons that end up favored by women, like rapiers and Bows. A rapier is quite heavy and one handed. A bow, especially a war bow starts at a draw of around 65 pounds. These are NOT weapons that are going to be any good, at all, for most women to use. A two handed weapon is much more appropriate if you lack physical strength, there is a reason the Naginata was considered the "Women's weapon" in some circles in medieval Japan. I never understand why they do not allow the female fighter to use a spear, it is light, fast, and with two hands on it, can do a whole lot to work around a stronger opponent, especially with efficient use of footwork and reach.
Plus, for many historical settings, the spear was the primary weapon of war for the foot soldier. Swords were fancy weapons for nobles.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:07:12 PMI never understand why they do not allow the female fighter to use a spear, it is light, fast, and with two hands on it, can do a whole lot to work around a stronger opponent, especially with efficient use of footwork and reach.
Plus, spears are better than swords!
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 02, 2022, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 16, 2022, 04:07:12 PMI never understand why they do not allow the female fighter to use a spear, it is light, fast, and with two hands on it, can do a whole lot to work around a stronger opponent, especially with efficient use of footwork and reach.
Plus, spears are better than swords!
I will watch the video, but before I do, I do not agree spears are better than swords, and that is not what I said. I said a spear is a better weapon for a woman (smaller and weaker and likely slower than a man) than a sword. If anything the Roman legions proved beyond a doubt the sword is a fantastic weapon for armies to use. Just expensive compared to a spear.
Somehow I put my blurb in the quote box, whoops.