The Movie Thread Reloaded

[Battlemaster]

Well, people can feel as they want. The fact is AC was a fairly wealthy white englisn woman to whom racism was normal. She ever wrote a story called ''10 little nixxers''.

Putting real black people and real racism in one of her stories  was a legitimate revision of an age she falsely idealized. I hate woke and still liked this movie.

Now if they turned poirot gay or black, FUCK THAT!!!!!

But hey, don't watch it if you want, it's stil a good movie.

Abd there is such a thing as too anti woke.

[hedgehobbit]

Well, people can feel as they want. The fact is AC was a fairly wealthy white englisn woman to whom racism was normal. She ever wrote a story called ''10 little nixxers''.

Putting real black people and real racism in one of her stories  was a legitimate revision of an age she falsely idealized. I hate woke and still liked this movie.

I'll say the same thing I said about Tolkien, Lovecraft, REH, George Lucas, etc. If the producers hate Agatha Christie so much that they feel the need to "fix" her stories, then they should just make a movie written by someone they don't despise.

it would work out better financially for them. It didn't seem like there were that many people who hate Agatha Christie but also want to see an Agatha Christie movie.

Abd there is such a thing as too anti woke.

There really isn't. Too anti-woke just means "I like normal things."

[Battlemaster]

Well, you're probably too anti woke then.

[oggsmash]

LMAO at too anti woke. There should be zero woke.  Period.  There is no "anti", that is a stupid term, like "anti racist".  Nonsense words.  Both woke and anti woke.  Woke just should not exist.

[Battlemaster]

Go back a way and what we consider basic civil rights  today were considered intolareable by a lot of people .

[oggsmash]

  That has zero to do with woke.

[Pat]

Well, people can feel as they want. The fact is AC was a fairly wealthy white englisn woman to whom racism was normal. She ever wrote a story called ''10 little nixxers''.

Putting real black people and real racism in one of her stories  was a legitimate revision of an age she falsely idealized. I hate woke and still liked this movie.

I'll say the same thing I said about Tolkien, Lovecraft, REH, George Lucas, etc. If the producers hate Agatha Christie so much that they feel the need to "fix" her stories, then they should just make a movie written by someone they don't despise.

By that logic, nobody should be allowed to do a modern version of Shakespeare. Must Romeo & Juliet be set in Verona, with underage actors, all wearing those baggy clothes? If you have a primarily black high school, is their drama club forbidden from performing MacBeth?

Fuck that. Great works are great because they inspire variants and recreations. They're not static, fragile flowers that can never be touched. There's a certain preciousness about modern fandom that's almost as bad as the people who think "cultural appropriation" is anything other than awesome.

[hedgehobbit]

By that logic, nobody should be allowed to do a modern version of Shakespeare. Must Romeo & Juliet be set in Verona, with underage actors, all wearing those baggy clothes?

Nobody is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to do anything. Studios can do whatever they want with IP they control. My point was, that if you are going to make an adaption of an established IP, you are better off choosing a producer and director that actually like and respect the IP. That way we end up with more Fistful of Dollars and fewer Rings of Power.

Fuck that. Great works are great because they inspire variants and recreations. They're not static, fragile flowers that can never be touched.

I've seen enough recreations to last a lifetime. For example, we've never had a single X-Men movie where the X-Men look and act like the X-Men. Why don't we get one single accurate X-Men movie before we start working on those variants and recreations. How is it a bad things for people who like a book to want the movie based on the book to actually follow the book?

[Battlemaster]

Speaking of a modern Shakespeare, check out Titus starring Anthony Hopkins. Authentic Shakespearean dialog in a very surreal setting. Hopkins at his best.

[Pat]

By that logic, nobody should be allowed to do a modern version of Shakespeare. Must Romeo & Juliet be set in Verona, with underage actors, all wearing those baggy clothes?

Nobody is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to do anything. Studios can do whatever they want with IP they control. My point was, that if you are going to make an adaption of an established IP, you are better off choosing a producer and director that actually like and respect the IP. That way we end up with more Fistful of Dollars and fewer Rings of Power.

Fuck that. Great works are great because they inspire variants and recreations. They're not static, fragile flowers that can never be touched.

I've seen enough recreations to last a lifetime. For example, we've never had a single X-Men movie where the X-Men look and act like the X-Men. Why don't we get one single accurate X-Men movie before we start working on those variants and recreations. How is it a bad things for people who like a book to want the movie based on the book to actually follow the book?

That's called moving the goalposts. You were complaining about people trying to "fix" stories. Not about whether they like and respect the IP.

Hell, Peter Jackson's LotR is widely loved and considered one of the best adaptations -- and he "fixed" a fair number of things, like dropping Glorfindel to put the emphasis on Arwen and Aragorn, having the elves appear at Helm's Deep, and turning Rhys Davies into the butt of every joke, not to mention all the stuff in the Return of the King. Fixing is inevitable; it's a different medium, with different demands, plus you have to deal with stuff like studio execs who want more romance.

Fans like you claim they want pure adaptations, but that's simply not true. What you want are good adaptations. When they're good, even the most radical adaptations are fine (do you know what story Clueless is based on?). But when they're bad, you spout all this crap about fidelity and being true to the authors that's ignored if it's good.

And what people like varies, even among fans. Lots of people think X2 is excellent, or Days of Future Past was flawed but fun. And they might not have worn costumes, but Logan may be the single most highly regarded movie based on any Marvel property. That they don't fit your needs... well, tough. Think of the poor Fantastic Four fans.

[Pat]

Speaking of a modern Shakespeare, check out Titus starring Anthony Hopkins. Authentic Shakespearean dialog in a very surreal setting. Hopkins at his best.

I didn't know that existed. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available for streaming anywhere.

[Battlemaster]

Tius might be worth buying g a dvd of.

[Battlemaster]

Fire and Ice.  1983.

If you like classic fantasy, this frank frazetta Ralph bakshi effort might give you a warm nostalgic glow. It's s pretty standard fantasy flick done in surreal animation and rotoscoping. A beautiful princess who isn't as helpless as some, a handsome young hero in training, a batman wanna be who mentors the hero go up against an evil sorceress and her eviler son plus their orcish minions.

Pretty much an 80s D&D styke fantasy film, well done.

[Pat]

Fire and Ice.  1983.

If you like classic fantasy, this frank frazetta Ralph bakshi effort might give you a warm nostalgic glow. It's s pretty standard fantasy flick done in surreal animation and rotoscoping. A beautiful princess who isn't as helpless as some, a handsome young hero in training, a batman wanna be who mentors the hero go up against an evil sorceress and her eviler son plus their orcish minions.

Pretty much an 80s D&D styke fantasy film, well done.

I watched it last year. Not bad, but mostly forgettable. The animation is the most interesting thing about the movie.

[hedgehobbit]

That's called moving the goalposts. You were complaining about people trying to "fix" stories. Not about whether they like and respect the IP.

I thought my previous post was clear but just in case, when I said "fix" in that case, I was specifically talking about deliberately changing to story to update it to modern political correctness and to compensate for a perceived racial bias in the author, which was the issue being discussed. Obviously, when moving a story from one media to another, adjustments will need to be made both to condense the story element for time and adjusting elements of the story to fit the new format (this includes adding comedic elements such as you mentioned from LOTR). In fact I was critical of the recent Dune movie for not making the proper changes to the source material to better fit with the movie format.

Fans like you claim they want pure adaptations, but that's simply not true. What you want are good adaptations.

My point has been consistent. An adaption made by someone that likes and respects the original IP will be much more likely to be good then an adaption by someone that hate or doesn't even know the original IP.

But on a personal level, I'd rather watch a bad movie that is true to the source material than a good movie that shits all over it.