Quote from: Jackalope;261020So then what's the explanation then?  I mean, if Star Wars is this incredibly lame, stupid movie that doesn't tap into universal themes through it's clever use of Campbell's theories, then why is it so freaking popular?

Who knows for sure.  Why is any movie popular?  FYI I never said Star Wars was lame or stupid.  I just don't buy the idea that it has some kind of deep mythic resonance.

At a guess I would say that it's a combination of a simple adventure story (there's your monomyth as a very basic structural device if you like) with a pastiche of tropes from a whole host of different genres its initial audience was familiar with: samurai films, swords and sorcery, westerns, WW2 fighter plane movies and Saturday afternoon matinees.  I think the inclusion and combination of all these surface details in the context of one film probably explains its success without our having to look for something else below the surface.

In other words I would suggest pastiche, rather than mythic resonance.  But in the end it's just a suggestion - it's not like I've carried out detailed research.

Quote from: Jackalope;261037No, but if you had even the most feeble grasp of logic, you'd know that.

Your statement was "[If Star Wars] doesn't tap into universal themes through it's clever use of Campbell's theories, then why is it so freaking popular?"

Your argument seems to be "if it's not Campell's theories then how can it be so popular?"

If I am wrong, can you clarify what you actually mean?

Quote from: Vulgarian;261043Who knows for sure.  Why is any movie popular?  FYI I never said Star Wars was lame or stupid.  I just don't buy the idea that it has some kind of deep mythic resonance.

At a guess I would say that it's a combination of a simple adventure story (there's your monomyth as a very basic structural device if you like) with a pastiche of tropes from a whole host of different genres its initially audience was familiar with.  samurai films, swords and sorcery, westerns, WW2 fighter plane movies and Saturday afternoon matinees.  I think the inclusion and combination of all these surface details in the context of one film probably explains its success without our having to look for something else below the surface.

In other words I would suggest pastiche, rather than mythic resonance.  But in the end it's just a suggestion - it's not like I've carried out detailed research.

I'm with Vulgarian.  They are popular, fun films that mashed up a bunch of genres in a fun, over-the-top way that was completely different from the rather somber tone of most late 70's movies (particularly late 70's sci-fi).  But, like Rifts, that doesn't mean there's anything deep going on there - just wild fun.

You certainly don't need Campbell's monomyth to have a successful movie.  There was no monomyth present in a great many successful movies.  For example, the most successful single film of all time, Titanic, has no monomyth to it.

I think there is also something to be said for the marketing angle- kids know about Star Wars long before they see it. The toys are everywhere. Another thing that helps is that they do keep making new product, all of which sucsk, but it serves to keep the property in mind. As in, "Wow Colan Wars sucked. I really wish they'd make something as good as the first film." To discount marketing, is imo silly. Star Wars has perhaps the most robust and in your face marketing of any movie ,ever- not to mention being the first movie to really tap into this revenue stream.

I think people like Jack also forget that there's a difference between the people who've just seen the movies, and the people who are fans of the books and comic books. Most of the people I work with wouldn't even know that the "extended" Star Wars universe exists at all.

Quote from: Aos;261062I think there is also something to be said for the marketing angle- kids know about Star Wars long before they see it. The toys are everywhere. Another thing that helps is that they do keep making new product, all of which sucsk, but it serves to keep the property in mind. As in, "Wow Colan Wars sucked. I really wish they'd make something as good as the first film." To discount marketing, is imo silly. Star Wars has perhaps the most robust and in your face marketing of any movie ,ever- not to mention being the first movie to really tap into this revenue stream.

Most of the Kids I've taught who have started secondary school over the last few years have been completely unfamiliar with Star Wars.  

They know Harry Potter instead.

Quote from: CavScout;261046Your statement was "[If Star Wars] doesn't tap into universal themes through it's clever use of Campbell's theories, then why is it so freaking popular?"

Your argument seems to be "if it's not Campell's theories then how can it be so popular?"

If I am wrong, can you clarify what you actually mean?

Wow.  You're dumb on whole new levels of dumb.

Quote from: Jackalope;261041Sorry, that hardly explains the enduring popularity of Star Wars.  A lot of things benefit from clever marketing, but few are as popular as Star Wars.  The Misfits, as an example, don't even come close to achieving Star Wars popularity.

Yeah they also don't go to quite the same level of marketing that George Lucas does.  Saying they're not equally popular doesn't change the fact that marketing and merchandising goes a long way to keeping these two things viable.

I'm not bashing Star Wars but it's the biggest merchandising whore in the entertainment industry and anyone who can't see that is blind.

Quote from: Vulgarian;261069Most of the Kids I've taught who have started secondary school over the last few years have been completely unfamiliar with Star Wars.  

They know Harry Potter instead.

Well yeah, but if George Lucas gets hard up for cash we'll see a resurgence.  You could have said the same thing years ago prior to the prequels.

Quote from: jgants;261058For example, the most successful single film of all time, Titanic, has no monomyth to it.

Actually, Titanic is a pretty straightforward example of the monomyth.

You have Kate Winslets character.  You see her in her Ordinary World.  She meets DiCaprio's character, both a Threshold Guardian and a Mentor.  She overcomes several challenges, retrieves the holy grail (love), and then returns to the Ordinary World a changed woman.

Almost all love stories follow the monomyth, and all "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back" stories do.

There's also the fact that the people who grew up loving Star Wars are now a good portion of the people who have had or are even having kids now.  As more kids grow up without Star Wars crammed down their throats we'll see it's popularity level off much like the Harry Potter generation now.

Unless of course George Lucas pulls his merchandising magic and breath's new life (money) into the franchise.

Quote from: Vulgarian;261069Most of the Kids I've taught who have started secondary school over the last few years have been completely unfamiliar with Star Wars.  

They know Harry Potter instead.

I have a five and a seven year old. My oldest knew about star wars long before i ever mentioned it. When I drop them off at school, there are always a few SW backpacks in the mix. Star wars still owns a huge section of the toy isle, as well.

Quote from: Jackalope;261070Wow.  You're dumb on whole new levels of dumb.

I guess that means you can't answer....

Quote from: Idinsinuation;261073I'm not bashing Star Wars but it's the biggest merchandising whore in the entertainment industry and anyone who can't see that is blind.

If it weren't for merchandising, Star Wars likely wouldn't exist or be remembered. Merchandising is what's kept Star Wars from taking studio money. A bit of a two-edged sword, granted, but I look at the bland sci-fi offerings most studios put out and I'm glad that Lucas was such a whore.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;261073Well yeah, but if George Lucas gets hard up for cash we'll see a resurgence.  You could have said the same thing years ago prior to the prequels.

I very much doubt he'll be "hard up for cash," but Star Wars is way bigger than one person. It isn't going to disappear -- there's too much money to be made, and it's not like there's no demand for it.

Quote from: ticopelp;261094If it weren't for merchandising, Star Wars likely wouldn't exist or be remembered. Merchandising is what's kept Star Wars from taking studio money. A bit of a two-edged sword, granted, but I look at the bland sci-fi offerings most studios put out and I'm glad that Lucas was such a whore.

True enough.

Quote from: ticopelp;261094I very much doubt he'll be "hard up for cash," but Star Wars is way bigger than one person. It isn't going to disappear -- there's too much money to be made, and it's not like there's no demand for it.

Yeah, I was just teasing.  Although I will point out that some people just can't get enough cash and will do anything for more even if they don't need it.  Like make *Ahem* Prequels. *Ahem*

Quote from: Idinsinuation;261107Yeah, I was just teasing.  Although I will point out that some people just can't get enough cash and will do anything for more even if they don't need it.  Like make *Ahem* Prequels. *Ahem*

LucasArts and Star Wars merchandising were going strong when the prequels came out. I doubt he needed the money then either. I don't agree with a lot of the decisions Lucas made in the prequels, but I do think he made them because he genuinely wanted to, most likely for his kids -- which is why I think the prequels are generally far more kid-focused.

Ironically, I think if he had gone for a naked cash and hired someone else to do a knock-off Star Wars series that pandered to the fans, he might be a lot more popular with the fans than he is.