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Comments on starwars starting with the Last Jedi.
I liked it.

First off I subscribe to the Starwars Ring theory.  http://www.starwarsringtheory.com (http://www.starwarsringtheory.com)

It would help if you read or were familiar with the ring thoery but I hope its not absolutely necessary.  I also found that an enjoyable read so I offer it for your enjoyment.  

I liked the Last Jedi.  But it didn't have the same magic for me as the originals.  Part of that is none of us are 8 years old any more.  Part of it can be sumed up in this exchange.

"The new ones are good but not that good."

"That's true but hardly a fair comparison when you remember that, 'that good' was good enough to luanch a minor religion."


But I think the biggest reason is the they don't have the same charisma, the same chemistry.  There was Magic between Luke, Leia and Han.  Chewy fit in, the Droids had their own dynamic going on which fit in with the main three.  Of all of them Ben Kenobi was the week link, and he wasn't bad he just wasn't part of the magic.  When Lando shows up he is instantly part of the chemistry.  

On the other hand Darth Vader is the most bad ass villian ever created.  

That Magic came from the Actors not the director or the script.  We can see that in the Prequles, the Anikin story.  There is just no magic.  No chemistry.  Padme and Anakin fall in love becuase it says so on page 23 of attack of the clones.  I think in the New ones, the Kylo and Rey story, the director gets out of the way but the script might be too good.  There is chemistry in those movies, but not as much.  I have this feeling (supported by what I have heard) that Lucas had a bunch of Dumb Ideas for the original movies (Luke story) and the actors told him to stuff it and did what they wanted.  Thats a bit extream but I have that feeling.

On to The last Jedi.  The Last Jedi sets a huge task for its self.  It needs to continue the Story.  It decideds to redeem the Anikin movies.  And it subverts the heroic naritive.  It does all of this very well, the weak spot is chemistry.  And I think the week part in the Chemistry is the Script.  

There are a couple of what I call Guradians of the Galaxy spots.  The best example is Poe prank calling General Hugs.  Ha ha, very funny but it doesn't belong in a StarWars movie.  I think Disney has become a victem of its own success to an extent.  Guradians Vol. 1 was a great movie and the best parts were the guardians moments.  Since then those monents are showing up in every movie they make, they work in some movies Thor Ragnarok, but not in others Last Jedi.  Those moments have to be written, they come from the script not the Director and not the Actors.

 I think it is harder to have real chemistry now than it used to be.  In 2018 the nerd is ascendant.  Nerds aren't cool.  (Except in the bazaar since that uncool is cool)  Lando was Cool.  Leia was confident. Even Luke a hapless farm boy from the middle of nowhere is unselfconscious.  

There is Great chemistry between Kylo and Rey.  Really steller preformances when they are on screen together.  Rose and Fin are good together but not magic, certainly not Han and Leia.  

Frankly Luke is pretty lame through most of the movie.  He has moments but meh.  This makes sense but isn't fun to watch.  Luke has lost his faith in himself and his power and his order.  I don't think he is avoiding his responsibility but has decided it is his responsibility to be absent.  So even when he is there he isn't.  

His return however is pure Awesomesauce!  If you haven't seen it I won't spoil it but he is a true Jedi master and a match for his apprentice.  Just like OB Wan is a match for his aprentence (but differently.)  Its a comanding performance from Hammil.  

-There may have been spoilers before now, there are major spoilers from here out.  


Now onto subverting the heroic narrative and escaping the cycle.  Poe does most of the work subverting the narritive, denying the tropes.  In movies a dareing plan always works.  The good guys through grit and deterimation and a friendly spript writer always pull up a win against imposibble odds.  Poe knows that and he plays his part, but someone flipped the script on him and he takes the whole movie to figure it out.  He attacks and destroys the dreadnought at great risk to himself, but he survives.  He does lose half his squadron.  Then the mutiny, then his unauthorized mission to destroy the tracker, which leaks and lets the cloaked transports be discovered and half of them destroyed.  Poe the heroic flyboy nearly destrys the resistance.

I was happy with this, even though it is let down after let down, things go from bad to worse and none of his heroic gamibits pay off.  Its hard to watch.  I was happy they did it.  Unfortunately Poe is burnt.  Commanders who have the sensitivity to learn the lesson Poe learns by the end of the movie blow their brains out.  He is single handly responsible for the death of 3 quarters of the remaining resistance.  300 people?  And it wasn't bad luck, it wasn't an accident, it wasn't fog of war.  It was pure arrogance on his part.  He placed his need to win above the mission and the lives of his soldiers.  Real people who realize they have done that are wrecked. (Except for the 2% socio path).

I don't see how Poe can be in the next movie.

Back to Luke.  Luke when tutoring Rey, in the part of the movie I said he was absent even when on screen is explicitly tring to redeem the Anikin stories.  He is trying to end the Jedi order becuase they have their head way up there ass.  He also has a much better philosophy of the force than either the Luke movies or the Anakin Movies.  More to say on this but I will move on.

Now why is Poe subverting tropes and wrecking the heroic narrative.  Why is Luke trying to be the last Jedi?

Kylo has the answer.  He says it explicitly; end the past, "Kill it, if you have to."  Kylo doesn't know he is in a ring cycle but the theif played by Benicio del Toro does.  He says "they blow you up today, you blow them up tomorrow."

This movie is about escaping the cycle I think, charting a new path.  I need to go back and reread that ring theory peice and see what the job of the last two movies is.


This has gotten too long.  

Tldr.  
Good philosophy not the same chemistry as the first ones.
Where the Luke movies had great chemistry and weak philosophy.  

In a movie chemistry is more fun to watch.

I liked it. It's poorly written, but well acted. It's in the same league as PM or AotC.  

It's a bottom rung SW film, but undeserving of the hate overreaction it's getting.

The Last Jedi cemented the feeling, growing for me since the first Aftermath novel, that "too old and not woke enough am I to begin the training."

   But I invested about a quarter-century in the old EU/Legends continuity. I have no qualms about them leaving that behind (although I think they could have included more than they did), and I acknowledge that a good chunk of it makes The Phantom Menace look like Citizen Kane. But that investment means that any new material is both a) going to have to clear a high bar compared to my curated version of the old, and b) material which I don't need in order to find out 'what happens next'--I've picked my version that I'm happy with, and given that neither one comes from George Lucas, neither one has a higher claim on 'authenticity' for me than the other.

Disclaimer: I have not seen TLJ, and I don't plan to see it. I won't avoid it, but I'm not interested in these new films after watching TFA. But the reason for that has a bit of bearing on your post.

Quote from: Headless;1032512Now why is Poe subverting tropes and wrecking the heroic narrative.  Why is Luke trying to be the last Jedi?

Kylo has the answer.  He says it explicitly; end the past, "Kill it, if you have to."  Kylo doesn't know he is in a ring cycle but the theif played by Benicio del Toro does.  He says "they blow you up today, you blow them up tomorrow."

This movie is about escaping the cycle I think, charting a new path.  I need to go back and reread that ring theory peice and see what the job of the last two movies is.

I think the sequel trilogy could have been really powerful as a deconstruction of the original trilogy. Not a mean spirited one that demeans the original material, but a thoughful one that asks questions and then attempts to answer them.
But. the new trilogy is far too mired in fanservice. Hell, past the first 20 minutes of TFA is where I lost attention because it was so fanservicey. It's not that they aped the original trilogy, it's that they chained themselves to it.

But. And here is the dissonance that causes me to tune out.
It also deconstructs everything about the original trilogy in a mean spiritied way. The Empire rebranded itself and came back, Han and Leia broke up, their son went over to the dark side, Luke failed at being a mentor, R2-D2 just plain shut down out of despair. Jesus christ, they may as well have kicked a puppy while they were at it.

From what I've heard of TLJ, it sounds like they had a really good idea, of breaking the cycle, and creating their own destiny, and then dropped that idea in the execution because they're also in the process of that mean spiritied deconstruction.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1qqazl.jpg)

So, I don't care to watch them fumble the job anymore. The one thing that got me through the prequels was the hope that Lucas could pull a rabbit out of his hat and make the prequels turn out ok. The new films don't have that going for them.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1032546I liked it. It's poorly written, but well acted. It's in the same league as PM or AotC.  

It's a bottom rung SW film, but undeserving of the hate overreaction it's getting.

I think it's fair to call The Last Jedi poorly written - but I'd put it definitely above the prequels, which I thought were both poorly written and poorly acted. (I found most prequel dialog scenes painful to sit through.)

I thought it was a little too convoluted and derivative compared to the original series, but on that basis I'd put it as a middle run SW film.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1032585So, I don't care to watch them fumble the job anymore. The one thing that got me through the prequels was the hope that Lucas could pull a rabbit out of his hat and make the prequels turn out ok. The new films don't have that going for them.

But did that rabbit appear for you?  I didn't think so.  I would hope more for something like The Empire Strikes Back, where someone other than Lucas takes the helm and adds to the mix.

Quote from: jhkim;1032803But did that rabbit appear for you?  I didn't think so.  

You know, I'm going to say yes. The prequels weren't great, and I agree with most criticisms of them, and I'm so dissapointed that a great idea, the Good Guy hero turns against the world, wasn't quite played out as I'd hoped.
But I didn't think they were atrocious. So it's kind of a meh, they definitely didn't live up to their potential.

QuoteI would hope more for something like The Empire Strikes Back, where someone other than Lucas takes the helm and adds to the mix.

I'd agree, but Lucas is altogether gone, and the people taking the reins don't seem to have any insight into what made Star Wars so great in the first place.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1032812I'd agree, but Lucas is altogether gone, and the people taking the reins don't seem to have any insight into what made Star Wars so great in the first place.

Rogue One.

It is the best movie/show of the entire franchise so far IMHO.

Quote from: jeff37923;1032837Rogue One.

It is the best movie/show of the entire franchise so far IMHO.

I'd disagree there. But I do think that Rogue One was better than TFA or TLJ.

Something that occurred to me.

  Hate on the Expanded Universe, the Prequels, the Special Editions, or even Return of the Jedi, and you're still a Star Wars fan in good standing (or were back when I was engaged with the broader fan community). Dislike The Last Jedi, and you seem more likely to be called out as an Enemy of the People.

  Is it because it's newer, because the divide is more even, because a lot of people have used it as a reason to give up on Star Wars altogether, or because people on both sides have invested TLJ with more sociopolitical meaning than the others? Or is it just my imagination?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1032964Something that occurred to me.

  Hate on the Expanded Universe, the Prequels, the Special Editions, or even Return of the Jedi, and you're still a Star Wars fan in good standing (or were back when I was engaged with the broader fan community). Dislike The Last Jedi, and you seem more likely to be called out as an Enemy of the People.

  Is it because it's newer, because the divide is more even, because a lot of people have used it as a reason to give up on Star Wars altogether, or because people on both sides have invested TLJ with more sociopolitical meaning than the others? Or is it just my imagination?

Well, you went there. So... I think there's a lot of culture war baggage being brought into entertainment. So yeah, If you didn't like TLJ or the Ghostbusters reboot or Black Panther, then there's a non-zero amount of people, a lot of them critics and "journalists" who will assume you're on the 'other side' of the culture war, and say so loudly and with a lot of culture war jargon.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1032854I'd disagree there. But I do think that Rogue One was better than TFA or TLJ.

See, that's something that I think most people have forgotten. Just because you have differing opinions does not make you any more or less of a fan. You don't suddenly become "The Enemy" if you disagree. I think that attitude is something that has creeped in from the SJW culture war.

Quote from: jhkim;1032803I think it's fair to call The Last Jedi poorly written - but I'd put it definitely above the prequels, which I thought were both poorly written and poorly acted. (I found most prequel dialog scenes painful to sit through.)

I thought it was a little too convoluted and derivative compared to the original series, but on that basis I'd put it as a middle run SW film.

Eh, I'll concede that the Prequels are poorly acted, but that complaint applies to the new trilogy as well.

Finn and Rey come across as very flat most of the time. Now, I've not seen Ridley in anything else, but Boyega was the only good thing in the new Pacific Rim film (which was over all complete shit). He's a good actor, even if I don't personally like the guy.

The best ones so far have been Luke and Poe. Solo, Holdo and Leia were just kinda there. Looking bewildered as if they were just handed different scripts that said the exact opposite of what they'd been rehearsing.

And they're all good actors in other films. It's like the directors of both films have taken a page out of Lucas's playbook and ground the talent down to the most basic of performance.

@jeff or rat man or whomever.
I would agree that the culture war is looking to engulf starwars criticism in the wider web.  But that doesn't have to happen here.  

As for preformances, I think Rey and Finn only come accross flat when together (and not flat like Anikin movies flat just normal movie flat) Rey is great when she gets to play against Kylo.  Finn is good playing against Kylo as well.  Finn is good playing off of Han too.  I don't think they are bad actors, but maybe there charcter is unformed, and needs a mold to come into focus. (Did I mix enough metaphors for the cale to rise)

I found The Last Jedi entertaining but the story was, well stupid. Some of the humor felt forced and out of place (in the middle of battle for example with no real context). Snoke seemed wasted and so much for being such a "powerful" force user.

I think I rank the movies in order as: 5, 4, 3, 6, 7, 1, 8, 2. I probably place Rogue One between 3 and 6.

I hated Last Jedi. This is some of the most god awful writing of the whole series. Id rather sit through BOTH the Ewok movies than watch Last Jedi again.

Quote from: Omega;1033195I hated Last Jedi. This is some of the most god awful writing of the whole series. Id rather sit through BOTH the Ewok movies than watch Last Jedi again.

I can't say that I hate Last Jedi...because I refuse to bother seeing it. I can say I hated Force Awakens enough that (despite going with a friend to see Rogue One) I've lost almost all interest in all things Star Wars since Disney took it over.

"Solo" is good. I had written off Star Wars after TLJ, but Solo rekindled my interest in the franchise. Makes me want to dust off the old WEG books.

The WEG books are full of goodness. Definitely dust them off.

I wrote off fan allegiance to SW after Phantom Menace. I knew I would become bitter against the franchise, so instead I just approach ALL the post-RotJ SW movies as popcorn scifi flicks where I kick back enjoy the music, CGI and action scenes. Plot? Actors? Canon? Whatevs.

I did enjoy Rogue One. I found it far more creative than TFA or TLJ which were painfully idiotic.

For me, Guardians of the Galaxy movies are the best space opera since the original SW trilogy. I am WAY more interested in GG3 than SW9.

The best SW stuff I've seen post-RotJ has been Star Wars: Rebels and Lego Star Wars. If anyone here hasn't seen Lego SW, I highly recommend checking out an episode. Fun stuff and full of gamer idea goodness.

Quote from: Aglondir;1040880"Solo" is good. I had written off Star Wars after TLJ, but Solo rekindled my interest in the franchise. Makes me want to dust off the old WEG books.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1040887The WEG books are full of goodness. Definitely dust them off.

Yes, dust off the old WEG d6 Star Wars RPG books prior to watching SOLO because there are a lot of references to older EU Star Wars stuff.

As a standalone, I liked SOLO more than TLJ or TFA, but less than Rogue One. It was worth the money and had some great stuff in it that left me smiling at the end of the movie. I'd like to see more movies like Rogue One and SOLO, movies and episodic series that take place in the Star Wars universe but do not concentrate on Force users. I'd love to see "Star Wars: Everyday People" as a movie or TV series.

Quote from: jeff37923;1040909I'd love to see "Star Wars: Everyday People" as a movie or TV series.

It didn't work so good for the RPG...
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Quote from: HappyDaze;1041012It didn't work so good for the RPG...

I blame the d20 system it was done with.... :D

I wish they'd scrap Episode 9 and launch straight into a KOTOR trilogy.

Quote from: Aglondir;1041041I wish they'd scrap Episode 9 and launch straight into a KOTOR trilogy.

At the rate things are going there may not be an episode 9. Solo is tanking as its met with fallout from Last Jedi and some gender politics in the background that was just baiting really. Its like someone wants the franchise to die. Why else would they keep undermining and sabotaging it?

Quote from: Omega;1041270.......they keep undermining and sabotaging it?

Just "HOW" are they doing that?

I call bullshit on that idea.

I loved "Solo" and thought it was fun both times I saw it.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Aglondir;1041041I wish they'd scrap Episode 9 and launch straight into a KOTOR trilogy.

Why?
 If you mean the whole "Knights Of The Old Republic" thing - then you are a fanboy of the obscure. That was an over hyped video game and a few comic books.

- Ed C.

Quote from: jeff37923;1041021I blame the d20 system it was done with.... :D

I remember when those adds came out and we all said, "Oh, look. I can play a nameless extra..." We also had some fun in-game when a droid companion would poke at the corpses the PCs left in their wake and ask, "What's this guy's story?"

It's possible Solo will bumble along making money all summer.

Quote from: Koltar;1041417Why?

KOTOR would allow SW to escape the Skywalker canon, but keep the Jedi/Sith and develop new stories in a new age BUT have the already built in fandom of KOTOR which is not obscure, but quite significant as KOTOR had video games, novels, and comics.

But they aren't going to scrap Episode 9. That's crazy talk. They need to end this current whatever trilogy, even though there's no overarching story left. Episode 9 will be a mercy bullet to the current franchise so they can start over elsewhere.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041433It's possible Solo will bumble along making money all summer.



KOTOR would allow SW to escape the Skywalker canon, but keep the Jedi/Sith and develop new stories in a new age BUT have the already built in fandom of KOTOR which is not obscure, but quite significant as KOTOR had video games, novels, and comics.

But they aren't going to scrap Episode 9. That's crazy talk. They need to end this current whatever trilogy, even though there's no overarching story left. Episode 9 will be a mercy bullet to the current franchise so they can start over elsewhere.

The sequel trilogy would have been a perfect opportunity to escape the Skywalker canon. They even laid some of the track in that direction.
But the current creatives don't have the will. And so like you say, the prequel trilogy has to come to it's inevitable, depressing conclusion.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041433It's possible Solo will bumble along making money all summer.

It isnt. Its bombing in the US and especially overseas. Add to that the atrocious toys which are a step backwards from what Hasbro used to put out and whooo things are not looking good.

Though I think Solo is getting more flack than it would otherwise as it is catching alot of the fallout from Last Jedi. Someone else pointed out that part of the problem may be this "One SW move per year" mandate which means theres a bit of oversaturation of product and any ire one movie garners has not had time to abate before the next comes along.

I think they will complete any movies currently allready in production. But after that who knows?

Quote from: Koltar;1041417Why?  If you mean the whole "Knights Of The Old Republic" thing - then you are a fanboy of the obscure. That was an over hyped video game and a few comic books.

- Ed C.

I mean this one:

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My favorite Star Wars work.

People can hate on The Last Jedi all they want, but I really wish Solo had taken half as many risks as it did.

Ironic that a film about a daredevil played things so close to the vest. There was literally nothing in it that surprised me. Even the surprise cameo at the end felt very much like calculated "Fan service".

I just watched it.  Who was the suprise cameo at the end?

Quote from: Headless;1042707I just watched it.  Who was the suprise cameo at the end?

Spoiler

I don't know if you've watched the prequel trilogy or not, but Darth Maul, the apprentice to Darth Sideous (aka "The Emperor" before he was that role), appeared as the leader of the criminal organization via hologram.

If you've watched the 2008 Clone Wars series or the Rebels series, you know he survived and did a lot of things between then and before "A New Hope" but anybody who only saw the movies would believe he fell down a long shaft to his death after fighting Obi-Wan Kenobi, so it is more shocking that he shows up here.

Did the TLJ director just shit himself against the SW fandom again? Or is there a legitimate gripe going on or just more drama?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1042881Did the TLJ director just shit himself against the SW fandom again? Or is there a legitimate gripe going on or just more drama?

Not sure what you mean... "Solo" was directed by Ron Howard; TLJ was directed by Rian Johnson.

I saw a headline about Rian calling SW fans' "manbabies" for some Twitter drama. I wondered if it was a legitimate gripe or Rian just doing more to tank the franchise. Because with Solo tanking, I would think letting Twitter chill would be the safest financial bet.

Quote from: JRT;1042751

Spoiler

I don't know if you've watched the prequel trilogy or not, but Darth Maul, the apprentice to Darth Sideous (aka "The Emperor" before he was that role), appeared as the leader of the criminal organization via hologram.

If you've watched the 2008 Clone Wars series or the Rebels series, you know he survived and did a lot of things between then and before "A New Hope" but anybody who only saw the movies would believe he fell down a long shaft to his death after fighting Obi-Wan Kenobi, so it is more shocking that he shows up here.

Oh right him.  Yeah I thought that was pretty cool.  Do you know if it was the same actor?

Quote from: Headless;1042902Oh right him.  Yeah I thought that was pretty cool.  Do you know if it was the same actor?

Sorta. Face was

Spoiler

Ray Park's

but the voice was done by the guy who did it on the cartoon.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1042900I saw a headline about Rian calling SW fans' "manbabies" for some Twitter drama. I wondered if it was a legitimate gripe or Rian just doing more to tank the franchise. Because with Solo tanking, I would think letting Twitter chill would be the safest financial bet.

Is it this article?

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/rian-johnson-response-kelly-marie-tran-instagram

TLDR: Kelly Marie Tran (the Vietnamese-American actress who played Rose in TLJ) has deleted all of her Instagram posts due to racist/misogynistic comments. Rian calls the commenters Manbabies.

Thats shitty.  Rose was a great character.

Quote from: Aglondir;1043040Is it this article?

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/rian-johnson-response-kelly-marie-tran-instagram

TLDR: Kelly Marie Tran (the Vietnamese-American actress who played Rose in TLJ) has deleted all of her Instagram posts due to racist/misogynistic comments. Rian calls the commenters Manbabies.

AFAIK Tran hasn't commented on why she took down her twitter. It might be that she took it down due to harassment, but the news blogs are only speculating at this point.

I like Tran and the Rose character, but I don't trust media reports because its 99% bullshit. If Tran was subject to actual online harassment, that's unfortunate and utterly lame, but considering we live in a time where any disagreement with the SJW agenda equates to a stream of -ists, color me skeptical.

Also, social media is a cesspool and if you're on Farcebook, Twitter or whatever, you are dancing in a shithole so don't be surprised when you get drenched in assjuice.

Actors (and other clowns) go online for praise, adulation and a mistaken belief their celebrity gives them a voice on issues that should not be criticized. Unless an entertainer is talking about entertainment, their topic expertise becomes that of any other chuckle monkey with a keyboard.

That said, Finn should have died destroying the big gun or Rose should have died saving Finn. Either would have been a good and heroic death.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043083That said, Finn should have died destroying the big gun or Rose should have died saving Finn. Either would have been a good and heroic death.

Much agreed.

Quote from: Headless;1043062Thats shitty.  Rose was a great character.

Indeed. There were many lousy things in TLJ, but Rose was not one.

Quote from: Aglondir;1043040Is it this article?

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/rian-johnson-response-kelly-marie-tran-instagram

TLDR: Kelly Marie Tran (the Vietnamese-American actress who played Rose in TLJ) has deleted all of her Instagram posts due to racist/misogynistic comments. Rian calls the commenters Manbabies.

People are also claiming the same thing happened to Daisy Ridley, which denied it (but let's just ignore her, right?), so I'm waiting to hear from Tran herself.

Quote from: jeff37923;1032837Rogue One.

It is the best movie/show of the entire franchise so far IMHO.

Agreed. Not trying to slavishly re-create the original trilogy as the two post-quels have tried to do makes for greater creative freedom and an attempt to be its own thing.

If it weren't for the Anthologies, I probably wouldn't be bothering with the new Star Wars. Even if much of the cast are very good outside of Star Wars.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043128People are also claiming the same thing happened to Daisy Ridley, which denied it (but let's just ignore her, right?), so I'm waiting to hear from Tran herself.

Tran has yet to issue a public statement on this, but her director Rian Johnson and costar Mark Hamill have voiced about there being harassment - and various sampled screenshots have been posted in major media. I think that's reasonable confirmation that shit happened.

http://www.newsweek.com/racist-rose-tico-wookieepedia-page-753063

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5814437/Olivia-Munn-celebs-come-defense-bullied-Star-Wars-actress-Kelly-Marie-Tran.html

In general on the Star Wars movies, I like the original trilogy and not much else.

I think the new sequels (TFA and TLJ) are better than the prequels, but that's mostly because I hate the prequels. Rogue One is probably the best of the new movies, I'd agree.

Quote from: jhkim;1043193Tran has yet to issue a public statement on this, but her director Rian Johnson and costar Mark Hamill have voiced about there being harassment - and various sampled screenshots have been posted in major media. I think that's reasonable confirmation that shit happened.

http://www.newsweek.com/racist-rose-tico-wookieepedia-page-753063

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5814437/Olivia-Munn-celebs-come-defense-bullied-Star-Wars-actress-Kelly-Marie-Tran.html

I don't particularly care wait other people are saying, especially Rian Johnson. Even more so due to the fact that they keep lying about Ripley.

Hell, I would have thought John Boyega would have gotten more shit flung at him.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043276I don't particularly care wait other people are saying, especially Rian Johnson. Even more so due to the fact that they keep lying about Ripley.

Hell, I would have thought John Boyega would have gotten more shit flung at him.

I remember seeing a lot of racist stuff on the internet about Boyega when TFA came out. Dunno if it was directed at him via social media.

I wonder how much of the Kelly Marie Tran hate is being generated by the fans who wanted a Finn and Po gay relationship scene instead?

Quote from: jeff37923;1043286I wonder how much of the Kelly Marie Tran hate is being generated by the fans who wanted a Finn and Po gay relationship scene instead?

Eh. I don't think a relationship is a requirement, but they did have really good chemistry in TFA.  I ship Reylo and Pinn, but that's just me.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043643Eh. I don't think a relationship is a requirement, but they did have really good chemistry in TFA.  I ship Reylo and Pinn, but that's just me.

Lol I think they're chemistry is better than Finns and Rey, I'm hoping for a scene where it's revealed in Episode 9 that Finns her brother. It's the Han Luke Leia triangle all over again #nothingnewinhollywood #bromance

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043643Eh. I don't think a relationship is a requirement, but they did have really good chemistry in TFA.  I ship Reylo and Pinn, but that's just me.

It is possible for men to be Friends and affectionate - without any gay or homosexual aspect at all to it. Decades and centuries ago that was often the norm. Male friends or buddies could hug each other and everyone knew that they were just close friends.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;1043757It is possible for men to be Friends and affectionate - without any gay or homosexual aspect at all to it. Decades and centuries ago that was often the norm. Male friends or buddies could hug each other and everyone knew that they were just close friends.

- Ed C.

This.

It would be a shame if they ruined a good friendship to fill an agenda.

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043800This.

It would be a shame if they ruined a good friendship to fill an agenda.

Heck, has everyone forgotten the movie "A Knight's Tale" starring Heath Ledger? How often did the main character's buddy say "God love you Will"? Or when the Prince said to the crowd "Your men love you...." ?

- Ed C.

Well, I stick up for Lucas a lot, even after the prequels, but it looks like his version of the sequels would have doubled down on midichlorians.

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/george-lucas-episode-vii-episode-ix-1201974276/

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/282/images_do_not_want-741689.jpg)

Quote from: Koltar;1043757It is possible for men to be Friends and affectionate - without any gay or homosexual aspect at all to it. Decades and centuries ago that was often the norm. Male friends or buddies could hug each other and everyone knew that they were just close friends.

- Ed C.

Just so happens this song was playing the other day at a department store I was in:

[video=youtube;ERzPs7RbGao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERzPs7RbGao[/youtube]

This (https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/the-last-jedi-is-the-worst-star-wars-movie-ever/news-story/fd57dd0435d18dccc1efaacab5d28f59) may be the best article I've read on The Last Jedi.

Quote from: Apparition;1045674This (https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/the-last-jedi-is-the-worst-star-wars-movie-ever/news-story/fd57dd0435d18dccc1efaacab5d28f59) may be the best article I've read on The Last Jedi.

I haven't seen the flim, but I can imagine.

QuotePeople didn't really care about things that much in the original films. Or if they did, they didn't stand around talking about their feelings -- they just did things, and we sometimes felt things as a result. In the new movies, everyone cares about everything, and they have to tell each other all the time, and as a result the audience feels nothing. The drama is forced, but worse, it's completely unearned.

'

Shit, this can be applied to the new Trek movies as well.

If Rian Johnson says the sky is blue, the correct answer is fuck you Rian Johnson.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043281I remember seeing a lot of racist stuff on the internet about Boyega when TFA came out. Dunno if it was directed at him via social media.

True. People were shitty about Boyega before TFA, when they should have been shitty after they saw his lame performance.

I has assumed Anakin and Padme were cast badly to make the cheese whiny ham duo of Hammil and Fisher look good by comparison, but after Boyega and Ridley, its an overkill of bad acting that apparently defines Star Wars. It's not like there aren't talented young actors available.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1045838I has assumed Anakin and Padme were cast badly to make the cheese whiny ham duo of Hammil and Fisher look good by comparison, but after Boyega and Ridley, its an overkill of bad acting that apparently defines Star Wars. It's not like there aren't talented young actors available.

There's a certain amount of ham and cheese that goes along with epic space opera. The OT at least wasn't as stilted as the prequels. The dialoge and acting are really the worst out of the whole series.
But, as the previous article points out, and I agree with, on the sequels-

QuoteThe drama is forced, but worse, it's completely unearned.

I blame Orci and Kurtzman, the writing geniuses who gave us Transformers, Star Trek, and then Force Awakens.

I finally "saw" The Last Jedi on Netflix last night. "Saw" because I tuned out halfway through. Lame jokes from the start: Hello? Can you hear me now?" Really?  The slapstick humor with Finn. "Wipe that worried face away" to 3po. Dunno, seems too self conscious.

And holdo with the dyed purple hair...maybe im reading  too much into that.

Im going to give it another watch, but those things alone sort of predisposed  me not to like it. Nevermind what they did to Luke, which is so out of character.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1046606I finally "saw" The Last Jedi on Netflix last night. "Saw" because I tuned out halfway through. Lame jokes from the start: Hello? Can you hear me now?" Really?  The slapstick humor with Finn. "Wipe that worried face away" to 3po. Dunno, seems too self conscious.

And holdo with the dyed purple hair...maybe im reading  too much into that.

Im going to give it another watch, but those things alone sort of predisposed  me not to like it. Nevermind what they did to Luke, which is so out of character.

Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046641Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

Of all the fucked up things to put into Star Wars....


OK, its official. I want them to stop continuing the trilogies and just concentrate on the side stories set in the Star Wars universe.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046641Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

she gay pls clap

I noticed this on Netflix the other day. I'm considering watching it since it won't cost me any additional money I haven't already spent on my account, but I'm worried the cost might still be too high...:(

Quote from: HappyDaze;1046684I noticed this on Netflix the other day. I'm considering watching it since it won't cost me any additional money I haven't already spent on my account, but I'm worried the cost might still be too high...:(

You have better things to do with two hours. Like organizing your socks by type, wear and color.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046709You have better things to do with two hours. Like organizing your socks by type, wear and color.

I should have listened. I watched TLJ and I didn't like it. There really was too much bad humor (badly timed, badly delivered, badly conceived), and the action scenes were even rather dull to me--Snoke's red-suited protectors sure didn't seem like they knew how to fight together at all. Even the characters that I found somewhat likable during E7 (mainly Fin) didn't live up to the meager hopes I held out for them. 2.5 hours and I got nothing from it.

I saw  it again last night and did not dislike it as much. I still hate the humor the most, and I hated how they turned the canto bight mission into a waste  of  time   (and Luke). Like a video  i saw,  all the "gotchas" as a group feel so forced. Holdo having pink hair is still way too stupid given how she interacts with Poe and then that weak ass "I like him" which did not feel genuine at all.

I still think its better than the prequels, particularly when it comes to the acting, though the fights are super lame  in comparison.

If there are more movies after this trilogy, Disney should set them far from the OT. Just stop messing  with that storyline .

I am seriously considering reposting my review at this point.

Just saw Last Jedi on Netflix.

Bleh. I would sum it up with Tone Deaf.

The space battle at the beginning, I was still wondering who these people were (The Resistance, the Last Order) and why they were fighting. I'm sure the EU stuff goes into it, but I'm not a fan of EU, and the movies should stand on their own, especially an important point like the stakes of the whole damn thing.

The drama was so overblown. For example, I laughed out loud when Rey and Kylo were playing force-tug-of-war over the lightsaber. Like, the scene felt done, but they had to add in some extra glitzy special effects scene that I found totally unnecessary.
The Casino planet was fine, except they interrupted a chase to go there. Either resolve the chase, or do a different setup. (like hiding from the FO fleet) Interrupting the chase deflated the sense of urgency.
The most dissapointing thing is the movie doesn't take it's own advice. Like I said earlier, it would have been great if Kylo and Rey had left both the FO and the Resistance. Really and truly left it all behind and started anew. But they didn't have the balls to try something like that, and fell right back into copying the original trilogy. Now they're the Rebellion... again...

The sequels remain my least favorite of the series at this point, and TLJ didn't change my opinion.

Just went through my second Netflix showing too...or at least tried. There was just too much stupid, too much lousy storytelling. I too don't understand what beef the Resistance has with the Order. They seem to be dicks, and that's about it.

And seriously, wtfbbq was up with those "space bombers"? That's just the stupidest thing ever...god forbid the target ship like, move out of the way even if "dropping bombs in space" made any sort of sense, the thing does have engines for some damn reason.

Then we go back to the Mary Poppins thing...not just stupid, but lousy story telling. I mean, if Jedi had some sort of rep for flying through space, maybe?

But, yeah, all the idiocy might, maybe, be worth overlooking if Kylo and Mary Sue had decided to join forces...but apparently being in the Resistance means being a dick all the way.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046641Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

Dumbledored!

Just wait for the reveal that Poe "always was gay" in Ep. 9.

Found these videos today and found them interesting.


[video=youtube_share;koRDkbklPVQ]https://youtu.be/koRDkbklPVQ[/youtube]

[video=youtube_share;vwgvEe7T0d0]https://youtu.be/vwgvEe7T0d0[/youtube]

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046641Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

I found sources for the Force Sensitive (Dern's interview) and hints of pansexuality apparently in one of the novels. Where's socialist come from?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1049643I found sources for the Force Sensitive (Dern's interview) and hints of pansexuality apparently in one of the novels. Where's socialist come from?

You say hippie revolutionary, I hear socialist.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1049730You say hippie revolutionary, I hear socialist.

  Reasonable enough, but I don't think they gave it that deep a level of thought. ;)

Maybe another aspect of the problem with sequels, as opposed to pre-quels, is that Star Wars might be sort of a "solved setting (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?32955-quot-Solved-quot-worlds)." The empire was defeated in the OT, along with one of the most badass villains in film history. Trying to recreate this epic struggle between light and dark will just be a retread, and trying to top the Empire and Darth Vader is like trying to outdo Sauron in an LOTR sequel.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I found a video that does a pretty good job of summing up why I found TLJ disappointing.

[video=youtube;CyB3BxGrUvU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyB3BxGrUvU[/youtube]

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1049784Maybe another aspect of the problem with sequels, as opposed to pre-quels, is that Star Wars might be sort of a "solved setting (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?32955-quot-Solved-quot-worlds)." The empire was defeated in the OT, along with one of the most badass villains in film history. Trying to recreate this epic struggle between light and dark will just be a retread, and trying to top the Empire and Darth Vader is like trying to outdo Sauron in an LOTR sequel.

Except that due to the Force the Star Wars setting can never be a solved setting. The Force is like two hydras fighting eachother.

And history and many TV shows say differently on even the need to top a grand finale. You can easily do a reconstruction blues scenario and have the whole thing build up again. Or angle off into areas before unexplored. The comics and cartoons show that time and again.

I watched Solo last night, it was...OK. Rogue One was pretty good, not least because they didn't feel beholden to anything else and could just make a good movie.

Solo suffered from all the same slavish devotion to what has gone before that the "main" films have. Nothing new and a weird sideline in trying to be "woke" (through the annoying droid sidekick) which was just tedious.

Quote from: Kiero;1055876I watched Solo last night, it was...OK. Rogue One was pretty good, not least because they didn't feel beholden to anything else and could just make a good movie.

Solo suffered from all the same slavish devotion to what has gone before that the "main" films have. Nothing new and a weird sideline in trying to be "woke" (through the annoying droid sidekick) which was just tedious.

I made it about 5-10 mins. Between the text opening and the thing with Fagin? Sorry, I mean the light sensitive dumbass masquerading as a crime boss, Bleh.

Bwahahahaha.


[video=youtube;OFrcwcBVVjU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFrcwcBVVjU[/youtube]

Episode 9 will be a "course-correction".

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-course-correction-abrams-lucasfilm/

No idea what that means. I'd rather see another movie like Solo, honestly. I have no interest in the sequel trilogy, and I don't care how it ends, except maybe to watch it when it comes out on Netflix to see if they manage to dig themselves out of the dead-end story they've knocked together.

Odds are Kennedy and co will instead double down with some sort of big political statement movie.

Quote from: Omega;1063239Odds are Kennedy and co will instead double down with some sort of big political statement movie.

The schadenfreude from that would be more entertaining than the story. :D

I haven't seen Into the Spiderverse, but I really liked this commentary.

[video=youtube_share;5MdfivHmbMU]https://youtu.be/5MdfivHmbMU[/youtube]

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046641Holdo is, and I shit you not, a purple haired lesbian socialist who is Force Sensitive. Confirmed by both Laura Dern and Rian Johnson.

I can't believe I missed this when I saw it. Admiral Dangerhair!

Quote from: Apparition;1045674This (https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/the-last-jedi-is-the-worst-star-wars-movie-ever/news-story/fd57dd0435d18dccc1efaacab5d28f59) may be the best article I've read on The Last Jedi.

You will like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY).

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1049784Maybe another aspect of the problem with sequels, as opposed to pre-quels, is that Star Wars might be sort of a "solved setting (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?32955-quot-Solved-quot-worlds)." The empire was defeated in the OT, along with one of the most badass villains in film history. Trying to recreate this epic struggle between light and dark will just be a retread, and trying to top the Empire and Darth Vader is like trying to outdo Sauron in an LOTR sequel.

Except that The Empire spanned a galaxy (at the very least), how many worlds would need to be liberated from former Empire forces now claiming them as their personal property? How many spies, traitors, etc would need to be hunted down?

If this trilogy was to be the closing of the Luke saga that's where they should have gone, the republic is rebuilding itself, but many worlds still need to be liberated, Luke has rebuilt the Jedi Temple/Academy and new Jedis are being sent to the worlds.

Done properly they could have introduced several future central characters and then tell their adventures. But it was about killing the past and appealing to the Phantom Audience.

tLJ was pretty much awful in just about every way except for the special effects, which were really nice.
I could write a long post about what I disliked about it, but it's far quicker to just say it was generally a terrible movie.
Terrible plot, terrible woke SJW garbage content and just felt like an insult to the Star Wars franchise.

To be even handed I thought the George Lucas prequels were pretty terrible too, but not as bad a tLJ.
I only watched them once and have no desire to watch again. They weren't really offensive, just boring..  They felt like one long chatlog with occasional action in them.

I quite liked watching "The force awakens" though, although I only watched it once. It felt like a light, throwaway movie that was a tribute to "A new hope". I have no desire to watch it again.
But at least it was better than the George Lucas prequels and WAY better than tLJ.

Of the original movies. I loved "New hope" and "empire strikes back".  "Return of the Jedi" was ok.

I don't really understand why they didn't just exploit the "Expanded Star Wars universe" content, picking and choosing what was good and monetise the hell out of it, making lots of movies and so on. People would have eaten that up.

One thing is for sure, I won't be seeing the finale.  It looks terrible from the trailers and if tLJ is anything to go by it WILL be terrible.

What's awesome about El Cheapo theaters (and streaming) is the price point is really too low to care much about a suckass movie.

Was there some kewl f/x? Was the popcorn fresh and buttery? Did I get a RPG idea out of it?

If two of the three get a YES answer, I'm okay. Lowered expectations is the only way to watch movies these days.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1101742What's awesome about El Cheapo theaters (and streaming) is the price point is really too low to care much about a suckass movie.

Was there some kewl f/x? Was the popcorn fresh and buttery? Did I get a RPG idea out of it?

If two of the three get a YES answer, I'm okay. Lowered expectations is the only way to watch movies these days.

Indeed. I actually saw Jason XX (where he goes to space) in a theatre. I'd be ashamed to have paid a real price for it, but the projector for the movie we paid to see broke mid-film...so, a refund, and when we whined about lost time, the manager offered a movie that was just starting.

Awful, but fairly priced when you've already committed to watching a movie.

Bemusingly I rather liked Jason X. It was just so weird and seemed to be having fun with the whole thing. And it was fairly well made too. Good sets. Not bad acting. The cyperpunk Jason was well done.

If the final Star Wars movie is about Kylo Ren redeeming himself by recognizing where his grandfather Anakin went wrong becoming Darth Vader and turning against the Dark Side, then I can see the Rise of the Skywalker making sense and the trilogy almost redeeming itself.

But expect I'm quite wrong and its just gonna be about Mary Sue being even more magical for no reason and the rest of the cast bumbling about wasting screen time achieving nothing of value to the plot.

All indicators are it may be even worse than that.

Technology in the Star Wars universe is pretty static and is better explained in the Star Wars Technical Commentaries website (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/index.html) than by me.

Unfortunately. Since this is Hollywood we are talking about. Lensman Escalation is practically inevitable and was allready creeping into the original trilogy.

The Death Star 2 was, depending on the retcon, twice (or more) larger than the first. And could fire repeatedly in fairly quick succession. The Executor dwarfs regular star destroyers. And so on.

But its a standard practice in Hollywood to make the movie adaption of v2 of something as much as 10x larger than the last. The Enterprise in Abrams Trek is huge. When we were drawn into talks of a remake of Starlost the would-be producers wanted to make it 10x as big. The new US Godzilla is also huge compared to prior iterations. And so on. Hell even that junky Punisher movie did it. Now instead of just Frank's wife and kid killed. It is his whole damn immediate family! Parents, aunts, uncles, sisters whatever.

I figure by the time they get around to remaking Star Wars in a few years the Millineum Falcon will be enormous and the Death Star will be an actual star.

Quote from: danskmacabre;1101521I quite liked watching "The force awakens" though, although I only watched it once. It felt like a light, throwaway movie that was a tribute to "A new hope". I have no desire to watch it again.
But at least it was better than the George Lucas prequels and WAY better than tLJ.

I thought TFA laid the groundwork for TLJ's sucking.
TFA was a hollowed out shell of A New Hope's story, with boring characters, that copied the plot beats of ANH without understanding how or why it was successful.
For example, I still have no idea who the Resistance or First Order are, or why they're fighting. Going into ROS, there's no established stakes or tension. I really don't care who wins, and most importantly I don't care about the characters.
This led to TLJ being so meandering. There's nothing to do with the characters, and the plot only had trope subversion going for it.

ROS will be a glorious trainwreck, because no one knew what they were doing with the story, and there's no place for them to go. Anything the come up with will feel contrived.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1106796I thought TFA laid the groundwork for TLJ's sucking.

Oh I agree with this statement and the following comments you made.
But cinematically, tFA  was fun to watch.
Possibly as it had been so long since there'd been a Star Wars movie and I was still remaining open minded that SWs could be ok.

I did go see tLJ when it came out in the cinemas, but mostly through morbid curiosity. I do regret seeing it though, it was awful.
I think my retinas threatened to detach from my eye rolling!  :D

I will not be seeing any future SWs movies, including this one coming up that wraps up the current trilogy. I'm just not engaged in it at all.

Rise of Skywalker final trailer.

[video=youtube;oCgvGErYQUE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCgvGErYQUE[/youtube]

(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/17/17fc8de2b65a62c26fd3e6ec7d3742b82275db6d2f07ab41c6%20%20995b2c5cda85b4.jpg)

So, did the new films suck so bad they had to dig up the Emperor and the old Star Destroyers to try and distract everyone from the fact that they have no goddamn story going into the final film?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1111465So, did the new films suck so bad they had to dig up the Emperor and the old Star Destroyers to try and distract everyone from the fact that they have no goddamn story going into the final film?

Yes, they did suck that bad. Was this the only question on this quiz?

Trailer looks interesting at least and some of the ship buffs pointed out all the different ships in one of the shots, including the ship from Rebels apparently.

Not too keen on the Emperor returning. But. Could be hes a force ghost, clone, or even just a failsafe recording. Sadly odds are it wont be so interesting as any of those.

Bet its something as mundane as "he used his force powers to save himself from the fall. Then escaped in a shuttle during all the chaos." I mean if Luke and Maul can do it. Why not Palpatine? Hell. Maul survived being cut in half!

Quote from: Omega;1111514Trailer looks interesting at least and some of the ship buffs pointed out all the different ships in one of the shots, including the ship from Rebels apparently.

Not too keen on the Emperor returning. But. Could be hes a force ghost, clone, or even just a failsafe recording. Sadly odds are it wont be so interesting as any of those.

Bet its something as mundane as "he used his force powers to save himself from the fall. Then escaped in a shuttle during all the chaos." I mean if Luke and Maul can do it. Why not Palpatine? Hell. Maul survived being cut in half!

It's not that the Emperor couldn't be brought back with some creative explaining, it's that bringing him back is the height of pointlessness. The original trilogy wrapped it's story up with the death of the Emperor and the fall of his Empire. One thing TLJ got right, is that it's time to move on. Ironically, TLJ couldn't even do that, returning to the status quo by the end of the film.

Also, he's being dropped into the sequel trilogy at the last moment. There has been no hint or clue that the Emperor was any kind of factor in the sequels up until now. Now the trailers are building this up as some big thing that everything's been leading up to, but nothing has led up to this.

God, at least fan-fiction tends to accidentally get some story telling correct out of sheer mimicry. At this point, I feel justified saying the sequel trilogy is worse than fan-fiction.

Quote from: Omega;1111514Trailer looks interesting at least and some of the ship buffs pointed out all the different ships in one of the shots, including the ship from Rebels apparently.

Not too keen on the Emperor returning. But. Could be hes a force ghost, clone, or even just a failsafe recording. Sadly odds are it wont be so interesting as any of those.

Bet its something as mundane as "he used his force powers to save himself from the fall. Then escaped in a shuttle during all the chaos." I mean if Luke and Maul can do it. Why not Palpatine? Hell. Maul survived being cut in half!

Yeah, I also loved the space horses running on top of a space ship, that scene's gonna be a classic.

(I'm being sarcastic, this trailer looks like shit and those are the best cuts from the movie)

Now on to predict the future:

Rey is either the sister or cousin of Kylo, she's the greatest Jedi ever, they are jamming some training in this movie to stop everybody from complaining that she got none, the story still makes o sense, lots of explosions, probably more space bombers, space cavalry saves the day, light sabers still don't work as they should (Kylo & Finn should be dead), dumb people probably will make it a box office hit, the toys will not sell, the parks will tank and I don't fucking care what Disney does with it.

There are only 6 movies in the Star Wars Franchise.

While all the new-new Star Wars bar Rogue One have been total shit, The Mandalorian looks promising.

[video=youtube;aOC8E8z_ifw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw[/youtube]

At this point it feels like Disney is trying to build a second story on a house by burning it down to it's foundation.

Quote from: Kiero;1111725While all the new-new Star Wars bar Rogue One have been total shit, The Mandalorian looks promising.

[video=youtube;aOC8E8z_ifw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw[/youtube]

... maybe. I like Boba Fett better when there wasn't this whole Star Trek-ish race of bounty hunters built up around the character.
The helmets on pikes made me think of WH40K. Dunno if that's a good or bad thing.
And is it only going to be available on some Disney streaming service? Hard pass for me if that's the case.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1111748... maybe. I like Boba Fett better when there wasn't this whole Star Trek-ish race of bounty hunters built up around the character.
The helmets on pikes made me think of WH40K. Dunno if that's a good or bad thing.
And is it only going to be available on some Disney streaming service? Hard pass for me if that's the case.

Yep, only on the Disney streaming service, and it's not about Boba Fett.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111754Yep, only on the Disney streaming service, and it's not about Boba Fett.

Oh yeah. I knew it was a new character, but the whole "Mandalorians all wear this armor and are honorable but pragmatic warriors..." yadda yadda thing.

Quote from: Kiero;1111725While all the new-new Star Wars bar Rogue One have been total shit, The Mandalorian looks promising.

Give em time. Disney seems to live now on "if it aint broke. "fix" it..."

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1111762Oh yeah. I knew it was a new character, but the whole "Mandalorians all wear this armor and are honorable but pragmatic warriors..." yadda yadda thing.

Mandalorians are the SW answer to ST:TNG Klingons. Their idea of "honorable" is gunning down civilians or bombing them from orbit.

Quote from: Kiero;1111725While all the new-new Star Wars bar Rogue One have been total shit, The Mandalorian looks promising.

[video=youtube;aOC8E8z_ifw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw[/youtube]

It's still Disney starwars and after soylo it's pretty much confirmed starwars is dead and the fandomenice is right.

To be fair, the final trailer doesn't look terrible...if I hadn't seen the other two movies.

Are there glimpses of something potentially interesting? Definitely.

Do I trust them? Definitely not.

The comment section on the trailer video was a hoot. Here's my fav:
Oh man it is gonna be sad saying goodbye to all these memorable characters like.  . . that one guy and what's her face.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1111990To be fair, the final trailer doesn't look terrible...if I hadn't seen the other two movies.

Are there glimpses of something potentially interesting? Definitely.

Do I trust them? Definitely not.

The comment section on the trailer video was a hoot. Here's my fav:
Oh man it is gonna be sad saying goodbye to all these memorable characters like.  . . that one guy and what's her face.

My fav:


"The Saga Ends"

Disney: Oh...I'm afraid the next saga will be quite operational when your wallets arrive

Interesting bit in light of the apparent return of Lando in the upcoming film

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/star-wars-billy-dee-williams-gender-fluid-pronouns-interview-lando-a9228056.html

Soo.. he's 82 years old. He said he dosen't take himself too seriously. And he said he's ''gender fluid''.

Tbh this look to me like gentle trolling. His statements reflect a free spirit who just does not care how he looks while his in movie character is not relly defined in that regard. So hes doing this to promote his character to be relevant. And at this point why should anybody care thou? Why should this concern anybody but himself? Does he believe himself to be a rolemodel for those people who are gender fluid, and if so what has he accomplished to be their rolemodel?

*snickers*

The Last Jedi Appreciation Thread (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-last-jedi-appreciation-thread.856923/) from TBP (where else?)

On it's own, Last Jedi is an incoherent mess.
As a Star Wars film, it's like getting tea bagged by someone with crotch rot.

At the risk of psychoanalyzing, my suspicion is that Last Jedi fans are people who really hate Star Wars and like seeing it run into the ground.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1118054At the risk of psychoanalyzing, my suspicion is that Last Jedi fans are people who really hate Star Wars and like seeing it run into the ground.

Or, perhaps, just have little or no previous exposure or attachment to what came before. Not everyone that sees a Star Wars film has extensive exposure to all prior Star Wars stuff. The lack of context might make TLJ more enjoyable, but I'll never know (nor accept) that for myself.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118055Or, perhaps, just have little or no previous exposure or attachment to what came before. Not everyone that sees a Star Wars film has extensive exposure to all prior Star Wars stuff. The lack of context might make TLJ more enjoyable, but I'll never know (nor accept) that for myself.

Hell, maybe so. There were fans of the Transformers live action films. Maybe there's a market for films that are incoherent messes, as long as they hit certain beats.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118055Or, perhaps, just have little or no previous exposure or attachment to what came before. Not everyone that sees a Star Wars film has extensive exposure to all prior Star Wars stuff. The lack of context might make TLJ more enjoyable, but I'll never know (nor accept) that for myself.

I kinda doubt it because TLJ doesn't exist in a vacuum. Its a sequel to a film that dickrode nostalgia.

SJWs value deconstruction, destruction, subversion, and the elevation of their values. TLJ is full of that.

Like what are TLJs values outside of itself? It only exists as a parasite on an existing series. Its commentary only makes sense and has value (theoretical value) after having seen the previous series.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118091I kinda doubt it because TLJ doesn't exist in a vacuum. Its a sequel to a film that dickrode nostalgia.

SJWs value deconstruction, destruction, subversion, and the elevation of their values. TLJ is full of that.

Like what are TLJs values outside of itself? It only exists as a parasite on an existing series. Its commentary only makes sense and has value (theoretical value) after having seen the previous series.

Like myself, you do not have the ability to come into it without knowing much about Star Wars. There are some that do. My stepson works at a Disney park, and he has told me of visitors to Galaxy's Edge that have near-zero previous exposure to Star Wars. For some of them, The Last Jedi might be their next stop.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118095For some of them, The Last Jedi might be their next stop.

I'm not saying that's impossible. I'm saying it makes near little sense that way. And it's clearly not designed to work standalone whatsoever.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118102I'm not saying that's impossible. I'm saying it makes near little sense that way. And it's clearly not designed to work standalone whatsoever.

That something makes little sense and is not being used as designed doesn't stop it from happening (and happening again and again...). When I see a process at work, I have to try to understand what it was meant to do, how it is meant to do it, and then try to predict how it will end up once it's actually in use. The latter sometimes doesn't match the first two parts at all. The Last Jedi happened to come out at a time when many in the audience had more involvement with the social media surrounding it that the actual media of Star Wars. For me, that's a negative, but for others...TLJ is what they consider "the best of Star Wars" and the rest needs to go (which the movie kinda said...until the next movie told them--and others--to fuck off and just watch flashy spectacle & nostalgia).

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118113TLJ is what they consider "the best of Star Wars" and the rest needs to go (which the movie kinda said...until the next movie told them--and others--to fuck off and just watch flashy spectacle & nostalgia).

A just reward for bad taste. Sometimes two wrongs CAN make a right!

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118055Or, perhaps, just have little or no previous exposure or attachment to what came before. Not everyone that sees a Star Wars film has extensive exposure to all prior Star Wars stuff. The lack of context might make TLJ more enjoyable, but I'll never know (nor accept) that for myself.

I Liked "The Last Jedi" - and I DID see all the previous "Star Wars" movies. However, I had never read the previous 30 years worth of SW paperback books and I never played the old West End RPG. For me, I never had 'nostalgia' for any of that stuff. To me the only version of Admiral Thrawn is the one who showed up in "SW Rebels".

- Ed C.