TheRPGSite

and I fucking deserved it.











What?

No really?

Heh.  Just wanted to play with the cool kids, and come over and bitch about being suspended.

But seriously, three days - not what I was expecting but at least I'll have one less place to waste time on while I'm supposed to be finishing making my exams.

Oh wait....crap

I have yet to be suspended, but then, ever since my cookie disappeared, and the subsequent log in difficulties I now face, I haven't been back in... um... a long time?

Yeah... A long time.  


Hrm... needs more emphasis.


A LONG TIME!!!






Damn... that worked better with the narrator in my head providing the 'Voice of Bog'...

Ya know what?  I apologize to The Pundit, and everyone else who has worked to make this place what it is.

I used to rail at Pundit for making "anti-RPG.net" the defacto norm around here.

But you guys have moved past that, and have made this place as something other than "not RPG.net".  

I was just making a dumb joke, but it dismisses the effort that been put into giving this place its own identity other than "the place to come when you want to bitch about being banned from the BP".

So I apologize.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralYa know what?  I apologize to The Pundit, and everyone else who has worked to make this place what it is.

I used to rail at Pundit for making "anti-RPG.net" the defacto norm around here.

But you guys have moved past that, and have made this place as something other than "not RPG.net".  

I was just making a dumb joke, but it dismisses the effort that been put into giving this place its own identity other than "the place to come when you want to bitch about being banned from the BP".

So I apologize.

Well, that kind of talk isn't going to get you suspended here. Try siding with the Swine.

Seanchai

Bah, dosn't count unless you get perma-banned. Lightweight.

Quote from: WerekoalaBah, dosn't count unless you get perma-banned. Lightweight.

There should be a forum for the perma-banned for silly reasons group of us. Maybe custim T-shirts and smoking jackets too.  (customized dice would be nice)


- Ed C.

Quote from: WerekoalaBah, dosn't count unless you get perma-banned. Lightweight.

:D

I bow to your superior ability in this regard.  ;)

Quote from: SeanchaiWell, that kind of talk isn't going to get you suspended here. Try siding with the Swine.

Seanchai

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS ALMOST CAUSED THE DOWNFALL OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY.

THE FORGE RULEZ

PUNDIT SNUGGLES UP TO A PICTURE OF RON EDWARDS AND HAS A COPY OF "DOGS IN THE VINEYARD" IN HIS OUTHOUSE FOR WANKING MATERIAL

IF YOU CAN'T FIT YOUR ENTIRE RULES MECHANICS ON A 5x12 CARD, YOU ARE A "ROLL PLAYER".

IF YOUR GAME HAS MORE THAN 1 PARAGRAPH OF WRITTEN COMBAT RULES IT IS MADE FOR MUNCHKIN POWERGAMER TWITS

Better?  How'd I do?

OMFG!  I...just stopped going to tBP because I found it increasingly difficult to wade through all the noise to get to the signal.  That, and the fact that the moderator staff were actively unsympathetic to my complaints about the slump in the signal-to-noise ratio.

Yes, theRPGsite is finding its stride.  It still stutter-steps and back-tracks from time to time, but it's getting comfortable with itself.

!i!

Davenport is a bit of a cocksucker, though.

Oh, well, they all suck cock.  That's one of the criteria for being a mod.  Suck cock.  Nothing new there.

!i!

Now it all comes out as to how Doc got be a mod here!

:rimshot:




I kid people.  Everyone knows he got to be a mod because of the tie.

That's no tie.  That's a napkin!

:rimshot:

!i!

Quote from: droogDavenport is a bit of a cocksucker, though.

Meh.  He's always been fair and level-headed with me.

I posted in a fit of pique, and called EpicHero a dickwad again, after knowing I shouldn't have done it the first time.

You plays by the rules of the guy whose house you plays in.  Are there times I want to call someone even worse things - hells yeah.  Nelzie drives me fucking bananas.  But, I know that if I do, I might hit a banstick.

It doesn't mean I can't do all sorts of things though.  I mean, I'm not exactly a gentle poster there, and this is the first suspension I've caught.

I call it like I see it.  Always have.  I knew eventually I'd get a ban cause I say something I shouldn't.

I do generally prefer the level of discourse there to most places.  The signal-to-noise is high, yeah, but man, sometimes the noise is damned fun.

Its a fun place.  The thing that keeps me from being more regular here is its not as FUN.  Its a decent enough place for discussion, but its that odd Tang vibe that keeps me going back to it.  I like being able to talk about anything - it makes it feel like a pub or just a buncha guys and gals hangin around shooting the breeze.  Sure, theres lots of good RPG discussion, but all RPG all the time gets boring even for me.

And theres some folks there that are plain worth sticking around for.  Theres a good number here - like the good Doctor - that are worth sticking around for as well.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralThe signal-to-noise is high, yeah...

You mean low, of course.

Quote...but its that odd Tang vibe that keeps me going back to it.

I used to enjoy it, too.  I realised that it had become virtually the only reason I was going there anymore, though.  And, regardless of claims to the contrary, the tone of the whole site had changed over time, and I'd become an anachronism.  But we've been down that road too many times, and to each his own.  I'm sorry you weren't able to speak your mind without punitive repercussions.

!i!

Quote from: HackmastergeneralIts a fun place.  The thing that keeps me from being more regular here is its not as FUN.  Its a decent enough place for discussion, but its that odd Tang vibe that keeps me going back to it.  I like being able to talk about anything - it makes it feel like a pub or just a buncha guys and gals hangin around shooting the breeze.  Sure, theres lots of good RPG discussion, but all RPG all the time gets boring even for me.

Wow thats why I hang out here. Every where else I dont really feel like I can speak my mind, if I want too, and fuck that. Thats the main reason I dont hang out on the Palladium boards any more. The mod clic and the like mind think BS is to much for me. Especially now that I found a place where you can call a spade a spade.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralIts a fun place.  The thing that keeps me from being more regular here is its not as FUN.  [...] Sure, theres lots of good RPG discussion, but all RPG all the time gets boring even for me.

So, rpg.net is better than therpgsite because they talk about rpgs less?

Sounds awesome. Next we can have a politics forum with not much politics, a news site with not much news, and a pr0n site with not much pr0n. It's more fun that way!

Quote from: Kyle AaronSo, rpg.net is better than therpgsite because they talk about rpgs less?

Sounds awesome. Next we can have a politics forum with not much politics, a news site with not much news, and a pr0n site with not much pr0n. It's more fun that way!

The politics site will have the p0rn, the p0rn site will have the politics, and the news site will be full of politicals and p0rn.

Oh wait...it's already like that...

I say all threads about RPGnet be moved to the Pundit's forum.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Kyle AaronSo, rpg.net is better than therpgsite because they talk about rpgs less?

Sounds awesome. Next we can have a politics forum with not much politics, a news site with not much news, and a pr0n site with not much pr0n. It's more fun that way!

No, check the thread/post counts on BP compared to here.  They talk about RPGs MORE actually, cause, you know, more people.  

But the thing is, I like being able to talk about random shit.  News, Media, movies, books.  You can do that HERE, but its not as good - fewer people mostly.  I like the wide divergence of opinion there, it makes discussing things more interesting.

But this is rehashing old ground.  rpg.net didn't service your needs, this place does.  More power congrats.  But the arguement that theres no RPG talk, or that its less important than Tang is patently false and ludicrous.

Quote from: James J SkachThe politics site will have the p0rn, the p0rn site will have the politics, and the news site will be full of politicals and p0rn.

Oh wait...it's already like that...

Cause this is the problem - when you get large groups of people tlaking about shit - no matter what kind of shit you are going to try to make them stay focused on - something will happen, and they will want to discuss it.  Politics, for example, is the worst kind of topic creep.  So, what do you do?  You either shut down any and all remotely political discussion, or you move it off to another part of the site.  Almost every high traffic forum I have see has an "off topic" section, and most of them grow pretty sizeable, caue while I may like talking about Gooseberry Pies on GooseberryPiesRock.org, or basketweaving on Basketweavingmofos.net, I also end up becoming friendly with many of the people there, if I'm a regular poster and not a social troglodyte.  So, when friends talk, they shoot the breeze and topics drift across many divergent subjects.  Its natural and it happens.

You can have that discussion clutter up your "Kick Ass Gooseberry Pie Recipies" section, or you "Picture of my current projects" section, or you can move it off somewhere else.  But people will always want to talk about random shit.

Ummm...I was just kidding...ya know...goofing on the news media...

I don't hang out, never really have, at RPGNet.  So I tend to have no opinion on it. I did read through a series of articles there where someone was designing a game - Rough Quests I think it was. But I lost interest at some point...

Quote from: James J SkachUmmm...I was just kidding...ya know...goofing on the news media...

I don't hang out, never really have, at RPGNet.  So I tend to have no opinion on it. I did read through a series of articles there where someone was designing a game - Rough Quests I think it was. But I lost interest at some point...

I was using your post to solidify my point, not as an attack position.

Cause Kyle Aaron seems to think sites have to be about one thing and one thing only, and I haven't seen anything but the most draconianly modded sites do that.  Cause its stupid and unrealistic.

Quote from: James J SkachThe politics site will have the p0rn, the p0rn site will have the politics, and the news site will be full of politicals and p0rn.

Oh wait...it's already like that...

That might be true - but unlike other forum sites they hide it . I can browse THIS forum (rpgsite) and still see the off topic section when I'm on another computer or not logged in, same with the SJG forums and general chatter.

What are they hiding? and why do they feel the need to hide it?


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarThat might be true - but unlike other forum sites they hide it . I can browse THIS forum (rpgsite) and still see the off topic section when I'm on another computer or not logged in, same with the SJG forums and general chatter.

What are they hiding? and why do they feel the need to hide it?


- Ed C.

Because they had a long long string of unregistered trolls coming in.

As well, a lot of the discussion there can be not suitable for youngsters, so in order to stem any legal problems, they just made it that you had to be registered to read or post there, since you are technically supposed to be an adult to post there anyway.

Interesting ....thats one of the least 'adult' places I've ever seen or read.
For that matter, considering how much computers cost - only adults should be using them anyway.


....oh never mind....had a long-winded rant all set to go  that I'm not in the mood for any more...

Thank you for the kind words, Hackmastergeneral.

For my own part, I left RPG.Net for many reasons.  The cliquishness, for one, didn't bother me quite so much as the unwelcoming nature of the cliquishness, as I saw these little groups close up to even long-time members of the community -- like me.  The rules became too much to bear, not because they were in my mind draconian, which they weren't, but because they were applied with such fierce and dedicated ambiguity.  More than once did I appeal to a moderator to unlock a thread which had been shut down because one person's comments unintentioanlly skirted the rules, only to be told, in effect,  "No, because I don't wanna".  On a floor covered with eggshells, it's very hard to breakdance.

The RPG Site suits me better because I find its level of discourse more agreeable, more open and more responsible.  You CAN and DO get called out here, if you're being a prick.  Remember the end of Fritz Lang's M, where Peter Lorre's child murderer character is tried and convicted by a court of his fellow outcasts and criminals?  Not to say that we're all unsavory types,  which we most assuredly are not, but rather that it's our turf and we check it, no matter what it is we do on it.

Certainly The RPG Site's users exhibit some clearly-definable biases towards some games and play styles, which, not coincidentally, I favor as well; but few opinions and ideas are truly unwelcome here, even if they're sometimes met with skepticism or dislike.  You can still toot about Sorceror all you want -- other people will toot along with you, and the ones who don't want to will take their jab at you and then move on.  

As to how I came to be a mod...it's really just a case of a temporary convenience (my participation as judge in a contest run by Clash and Pundit) which was further extended for reasons of "meh, why not?"  I'm hardly ever aware that I have the damn status, but I'm sure that when the revolution comes, I'll be asked to go to  the front lines to sweep the streets of undesirables, wielding a mighty administrative force of blinding, shocking fury.

And that's when I'll leave.

This post here (http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8345093&postcount=23) is, in a nutshell why I'll never post at RPG.net.  For the banned:

Quote from: aprogressivist  via RPG.netWhile I don't disagree with the general sentiment expressed... yeah, reported, sorry.

You have the following:

1 - A handwringing busybody with too much time on their hands.
2 - A mod suckup
3 - The simpering "There but by the grace of God go I,"  with a dash of "you need to be taught a lesson, but good, AND I'LL SCREAM IT FROM THE MOUNTAINTOPS TO ANYONE WHO'LL LISTEN!" tone that permeates the entire place.

all in one, convenient, bite-sized sentence.

OK, heres what happened.

Drifter talks about getting in a dustup at a pub with some drunk asshole who was grabassing his wife during a friendly game of pool.  The second time he confronts the guy, who bashes him, and the place goes up as drunkfuck 's buddies come out.

Now Drifter was there with his stepson and wife, so naturally afterwards he feels bad, that he put them both in danger - feels maybe he just should have left.

Many, including Darth Tang, concur.  EpicHero comes along with his "way to man up.  Violence is sometimes neccessary; if you had run away your wife would think you were a coward."  I overreacted and called him a UFC watching dickwad for using the shit-stupid phrase "man up" in a situation where dude's schizophrenic stepson gets involved in a dust up in front of his mom and his 40+ stepdad, who is lying on the ground getting the shit kicked out of him.  Further explained my feelings calling him a dickwad yet again.  Also the phrase "Greater Internet Fuckwad theory" came up once.

I had been warned about PAs a couple of months ago by Dan The Man, and had forgotten, so I got a three-day vacation (still think a 1 day would have been sufficient, as I can count the number of warnings I've had on one hand, and probably using half the available fingers on that hand, and never have been suspended at all ever, but I'll accept the 3 day).

I cursed the guy out over a trivial matter (still think its a fuckwad thing to say, especially where dude expressed his regret and despair over it several times), and got punished.  I know the rules and didn't play by them.  That makes ME the fuckwad, because in every place, there are rules.  Some less, some more, but theres no place anywhere thats totally free from any rules or laws.  You play by them, and if you don't its your own stupid fault and shouldn't bitch about it.

Don't be so PC, man. That said, I thought Geezer's was funnier.

Quote from: PeteThis post here (http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8345093&postcount=23) is, in a nutshell why I'll never post at RPG.net.  For the banned:

Sounds like someone looking for his junior moderator badge.

I remember the days when "net.cop" was considered a put-down. :brood:

I repeat, all threads about RPGnet should be moved to the Pundit's forum.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI repeat, all threads about RPGnet should be moved to the Pundit's forum.

Regards,
David R

Yes, you've made your point - you don't have to keep coming in here you know, and noones forcing you to read this.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralYes, you've made your point - you don't have to keep coming in here you know, and noones forcing you to read this.

I didn't say I didn't want to read this. I just think there's a more appropriate forum for it.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: John MorrowI remember the days when "net.cop" was considered a put-down. :brood:

Hey, it still is.  Just not among net.cops.  Or in emotionally safe environments.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHey, it still is.  Just not among net.cops.  Or in emotionally safe environments.

!i!

(P.S. And, for the record, I rather like David's suggestion.)

[Damn it.  That was supposed to be an edit, not a quote. :p]

Hackmaster, for what it's worth I agree with your original assessment, strong words and all, back on the RPG.net thread where you were banned.  I also agree with you regarding the following the RPG.net rules to the best of your ability.  What gets me riled up is the "you've been reported," nonsense.  

But before I throw too many stones, TheRPGSite kind of has its own version of holier-than-thou proclomations with the occasional "you just made my Ignore List, BAM!" type of post and I think that's pretty lame as well.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralBut the arguement that theres no RPG talk, or that its less important than Tang is patently false and ludicrous.

I didn't say anything like that, you did.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralIts a fun place. The thing that keeps me from being more regular here is its not as FUN. [...] Sure, theres lots of good RPG discussion, but all RPG all the time gets boring even for me.

So you said that what really appealed to you in an rpg discussion forum was the non-rpg discussion.

You said it, not me.

I'm not saying anything bad about rpg.net, I'm expressing confusion at your tastes. Going to an rpg discussion forum and complaining that there's a lot of rpg talk is like going to a vegan restaurant and asking for steak. What the fuck?

And David R's right as always. Well, not always, sometimes he gets a bit madly thespy, but in general he's right.

Quote from: PeteBut before I throw too many stones, TheRPGSite kind of has its own version of holier-than-thou proclomations with the occasional "you just made my Ignore List, BAM!" type of post and I think that's pretty lame as well.

Isn't that only Settembrini, though? Does anyone else regularly put lots of people on ignore and then loudly announce it? Others ignore individuals from time to time, but are usually quiet about it, and don't do it to many people. Isn't it just the one guy we've got who ignores heaps of people and makes a big noise about it?

Which is less than many other forums...

Quote from: Kyle AaronIsn't that only Settembrini, though? Does anyone else regularly put lots of people on ignore and then loudly announce it? Others ignore individuals from time to time, but are usually quiet about it, and don't do it to many people. Isn't it just the one guy we've got who ignores heaps of people and makes a big noise about it?

Which is less than many other forums...

I think there were some "I put Seanchai on my IL," braggarts recently*; not quite the same but in my mind similar enough.  Having said that, its definitely not as pervasive these days as when gleichman (I think) and Nox were here.



*I don't mean the thread Jim Skach posted in the help desk, but on the RPG forum.

Quote from: Kyle AaronI didn't say anything like that, you did.
 So you said that what really appealed to you in an rpg discussion forum was the non-rpg discussion.

You said it, not me.

I'm not saying anything bad about rpg.net, I'm expressing confusion at your tastes. Going to an rpg discussion forum and complaining that there's a lot of rpg talk is like going to a vegan restaurant and asking for steak. What the fuck?

I never complained there was a lot of RPG talk - stop putting words in my mouth.  What I said was that I liked the fact that, when I don't have any RPG talk left in me, or when theres no threads or topics of discussion that come to mind of an RPG nature, or I'm just not feeling like talking about RPGs, I don't have to go to a different site - theres a vibrant and active community of non-rpg related material right there.  Its like an all-in-one stop shopping experience.  Some of the best RPG related discussion, and a lot of other stuff.  Suffice it to say, whatever I want to talk about (as long as its not, say Hunter in a positive thread, cause the HtR haters come pouring out of the woodwork - even here), RPG.net's probably got a thread for me.

Thats just me, though.  Others don't like it, and thats cool as a fool.

I still find rpg.net useful for some things, there's often more actual Rolemaster discussion there than there is on Iron Crown's website.  Also, it's a decent venue for my attention whoring game design antics.  I post my actual play thread over there so my players know where it is and thus I still have a place where I can come to discuss my GMing plans without them picking up on them, which is why the actual play threads don't contain them anymore.

But I got banned for a week for pointing out (snarkily I suppose) that as a direct result of having more fans D&D also had more asswipe shitheads.  So I got banned for stating a simple mathematical fact about gaming demographics.

I'm also perma banned there but I asked Cessna nicely to do it before I posted a series of rants.  It named a lot of names and said many nasty nasty but true things.  The only one that has any even remote relevance anymore is that I was going to call Pultny Plastic Collective on claiming to be Mormon while running a porn site.  People here seem to think she was a fake and I could believe it, though from the few pictures she posted on Tangeny I didn't think she was attractive enough to make much in that field.

Anyhow, I almost wonder sometimes if "she" was a targeted troll...

I always have wondered how many of those rants I could have posted before I got banned.  I don't know the modern Tangency crowd well enough to pull it off anymore.  sigh...missed opportunities...

Quote from: David JohansenThe only one that has any even remote relevance anymore is that I was going to call Pultny Plastic Collective on claiming to be Mormon while running a porn site.  People here seem to think she was a fake and I could believe it, though from the few pictures she posted on Tangeny I didn't think she was attractive enough to make much in that field.

The other day David of Borg got banned.  This occurred after confessing that he was really the aforementioned PPC/E-Liz, which brought to mind this very issue; the pictures that PPC posted and claimed to be hers aren't- the woman is really a Canadian citizen running a self-exploitative porn site called "Dawn's Place".  I neither know nor care if this Dawn is a Mormon; I claim that PPC a fake due to claiming to be in Utah and Dawn being in Canada.  I have yet to see any evidence disproving my claim that PPC isn't a fraud.

Thus ends the tangent.

Quote from: PeteI think there were some "I put Seanchai on my IL," braggarts recently*; not quite the same but in my mind similar enough.  Having said that, its definitely not as pervasive these days as when gleichman (I think) and Nox were here.



*I don't mean the thread Jim Skach posted in the help desk, but on the RPG forum.

So I was lame in one case but not the other?

I so want to be consistent - so I'll be lame more often.  It shouldn't be too hard for me...

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOr in emotionally safe environments.

We're one big happy family here.

The Pundit is the daddy who draws attention to us by shouting "show us your tits" to all and sundry.

Kyle Aaron is the mommy who reminds us, to talk seriously about off topic subjects if we won't about games and to eat our cheetoes.

Doc Rotwang is the cool eldest sibbling who makes out  with the prom queen...in front of us.

droog is the dodgy uncle with his hand on your thigh recommending his weird hippie games.

John Morrow is the concerned social worker.

The rest of us are the kids from the original Bad New Bears.

Regards,
David R

You know Dad wears Mum's underwear, don't you, David?

Quote from: James J SkachSo I was lame in one case but not the other?

I so want to be consistent - so I'll be lame more often.  It shouldn't be too hard for me...

Sorry, Jim.  I realize Seanchai bothered you in a big way, but yeah, I dislike it when people make a show of either reporting to the mods or placing people on their IL's.

I gotta remember to save my angry words for the posters I haven't personally met...

:melodramatic:

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe other day David of Borg got banned.  This occurred after confessing that he was really the aforementioned PPC/E-Liz, which brought to mind this very issue; the pictures that PPC posted and claimed to be hers aren't- the woman is really a Canadian citizen running a self-exploitative porn site called "Dawn's Place".  I neither know nor care if this Dawn is a Mormon; I claim that PPC a fake due to claiming to be in Utah and Dawn being in Canada.  I have yet to see any evidence disproving my claim that PPC isn't a fraud.

Thus ends the tangent.

Ah!  I missed where he confessed that as I just don't follow the drama much.  I'll admit I was taken in.  I still refuse to believe that a woman who looks like that can make a dime selling naked photos though...

Quote from: David JohansenI still refuse to believe that a woman who looks like that can make a dime selling naked photos though...

You're kidding, right?  I mean, there's a market for everything.  Even story-games. :p

!i!

Quote from: droogDavenport is a bit of a cocksucker, though.

I've always found Dan to be a genuinely nice person and an honest gamer doing honest reviews.

That's a fucking lot more than I can say about you.

What? I don't do reviews.

That's beautiful, David R. ;)

So, PPC was a guy, eh? Sad. I guess for some people, the only roleplaying they get to do is sock puppet accounts on discussion forums with elaborate and lurid backstories.

Quote from: Kyle AaronThat's beautiful, David R. ;)

So, PPC was a guy, eh? Sad. I guess for some people, the only roleplaying they get to do is sock puppet accounts on discussion forums with elaborate and lurid backstories.

Well, honestly it could be either/or - either David of Borg was the sock for a girl, or E-Liz/PPC were the female socks of a guy.

Either way, while some of my interactions with PPC were of a humorous variety, I see why lots had problems with her/him.  I don't remember DofB at all, so there.

I gotta say, its been a long few days,  I'm so used to doing work on the computer and just surfing around the fora of RPG.net, not having that there has been - man, its been BORING.  Not to mention I've been sick, so sitting in from of a computer and doing pointless Tang stuff would have been a good time killer.  You guys have been a fine replacement though.  I'll definately be posting here more often.

You can still surf rpg.net while bannzorzed, just log out and surf as an unregistered poster. All you miss out on is Tangency. Big deal. Wishy-washy politics, pics of cosplay chixxorz, and a few attention whores making shit up about their lives. Hell, you can get that on a thousand discussion forums.

Quote from: Kyle AaronWishy-washy politics, pics of cosplay chixxorz, and a few attention whores making shit up about their lives.

That's a pretty accurate summary right there.  Nice.

Quote from: Kyle AaronYou can still surf rpg.net while bannzorzed, just log out and surf as an unregistered poster. All you miss out on is Tangency. Big deal. Wishy-washy politics, pics of cosplay chixxorz, and a few attention whores making shit up about their lives. Hell, you can get that on a thousand discussion forums.

It was Tang mostly I was missing.  Hell, RPG discussion I can have here.

Quote from: Kyle AaronWishy-washy politics, pics of cosplay chixxorz, and a few attention whores making shit up about their lives.

And all that sex talk. Fucking hated that.

Regards,
David R

Wow.

I had no idea RPGnet sent armed squads around to force people to look at Tangency.

And when you're used to it, they take your god-given right to the forum away!

True story.

Quote from: Old GeezerI had no idea RPGnet sent armed squads around to force people to look at Tangency.

No-one said that anyone was forced to read Tangency. I realise that in discussions it's often easier to defeat your opponent's arguments if you make them up yourself, but even if Socrates did it it's still pretty lame and should only be done as a joke.

They don't say that anyone is forced to read Tangency, because no-one is. Which is why I said that in being bannzorzed from rpg.net and not being able to see Tangency, you lose nothing of any worth.

But the "you don't have to read it, so you can't complain about it" argument falls on its arse pretty quickly.

"Dude, quite picking your nose and eating it, that's disgusting."
"Is there an armed squad forcing you to look?"

You don't have to be forced to look at something to be annoyed by it.

The objection to Tangency is commonly that it detracts from the roleplaying discussion on rpg.net. It distracts regular posters, and new posters see it and take it as representative of the site. For similar reasons, here we've had discussions about what to do with racist and shit-stirring posters with little or no interest in rpgs (like Dominus Nox), whether bashing rpg theory really belongs in the Roleplaying subforum or should go to Off Topic, and have noted that calling all women whores probably won't encourage women gamers to join therpgsite (though RPGPundit's comments along those lines have mysteriously quietened now that his "chick" is with him).

The basic idea is that the purpose of therpgsite, and the original purpose of rpg.net, is to discuss and promote roleplaying games. Everything else is secondary to that goal, and should support it, or at least not detract from it.

Pity-whoring, cliqueing up to keep out n00bs, arguing about which old man should run the US, and talking about the details of anal sex and how to do it best, those don't in any way support that aim of talking about rpgs, and will often detract from it. Thus the scorn for Tangency, and thus many discussions about how best to run rpg discussion forums elsewhere.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralYa know what?  I apologize to The Pundit, and everyone else who has worked to make this place what it is.

I used to rail at Pundit for making "anti-RPG.net" the defacto norm around here.

But you guys have moved past that, and have made this place as something other than "not RPG.net".  

I was just making a dumb joke, but it dismisses the effort that been put into giving this place its own identity other than "the place to come when you want to bitch about being banned from the BP".

So I apologize.

Apology accepted. I hope you'll post more often, and about good stuff.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kyle AaronThe objection to Tangency is commonly that it detracts from the roleplaying discussion on rpg.net.

You present your points elequently, and I understand what you are saying.

I happen to disagree with it.

Tangency does not distract from RPG discussion any more than MMORPGS are stealing players from TTRPGs.

Those people would quit TTRPGs in any case.

Those people would gab about non-RPG things in any case.

Digression occurs.  You can either be reconciled to this and provide a venue for it, or be destroyed by it.

I spent several years regularily posting and reading on rpg.net.  I went to Tangency maybe once or twice, usually following up the trouble tickets, you know gawking at a car accident.  The two times I actually started looking around there was enough to give me such a bad taste that I vowed never to go back again.  I am not a snobbie person, but Tangency makes me be one because it is such an obvious cesspool  of that terrible crossroads of geekdom:  Extreme Loserness meets Anonymity-Inspired Overconfidence.  And the sexy talk [shudder].

They only keep it around because it drives pageviews, which is pretty lame for a supposed site about roleplaying games.  Kyle Aaron is right.  Sure, it's easy to avoid, but that doesn't make it a good thing.  From what I understand from an old old school rpg.net guy that it used to be a much livelier and richer place for gaming talk.

Quote from: walkerpFrom what I understand from an old old school rpg.net guy that it used to be a much livelier and richer place for gaming talk.

Sure was.  I used to post there before there was a Tangency, and was actually among the first to suggest that a 'tangential', goofy thread be labeled as such by putting pound signs in the title (f'r'ex, "##I hates me some Algebra!").

But that, that was...long...ago.  :emot-sigh:

Quote from: Old GeezerTangency does not distract from RPG discussion any more than MMORPGS are stealing players from TTRPGs.

I disagree.

We have here on therpgsite for example guys like John Morrow. Morrow writes intelligently and interestingly about rpg stuff. Then someone posts a political thread in Off-Topic, and we hear nothing about rpgs from him for days. Most people's time, effort and interest are limited; they can do X posts a day about rpgs, or X posts about politics and anal sex, or some combination, but not both.

As well as "distracts", it detracts from rpg discussion. Most of the rules created at rpg.net over the years about what people could and couldn't say came out of Tangency. If I say, "you play Game X? What a fucking freak!" you may be a bit surprised and annoyed but will probably not be offended. Whereas if I say you're a fucking freak because of your race, sexuality, politics etc then you may be offended. So the rules they created to avoid people offending one another arose mainly from non-roleplaying conversations, ie Tangency.

These rules detract from roleplaying conversations because they stifle the normal back-and-forth of conversation. When we talk about rpgs and game sessions people need to be able to speak openly and frankly to us. For example, I was recently complaining about a gamer who annoyed me, and my gamer buddy emailed me, "you sound like a pregnant woman who has just been visited by her mother-in-law." On rpg.net this comment would violate personal and group attacks, blah blah. But it was needed, and brought me back down to Earth.

The rules don't entirely squash rpg discussion, obviously; but they do inhibit it. The rules have previously been used by Forgers to get non-Forgers banned.

One sign of someone not really there to discuss rpgs is that they have something political in their sig. It's rpg.net, not politics.net. To me, that's like a gamer who brings a stack of comics to the game session and reads them. That's nice that you like that, but it's not what we're here for.

Quote from: Kyle AaronWe have here on therpgsite for example guys like John Morrow. Morrow writes intelligently and interestingly about rpg stuff. Then someone posts a political thread in Off-Topic, and we hear nothing about rpgs from him for days. Most people's time, effort and interest are limited; they can do X posts a day about rpgs, or X posts about politics and anal sex, or some combination, but not both.

Guilty as charged.

Quote from: John MorrowGuilty as charged.

I should pay more attention. I've seen you talk politics but no anal sex or a combination of both...like I said, I should pay more attention.

Regards,
David R

Would you like me to talk about anal sex, David?

Quote from: HackmastergeneralI know the rules and didn't play by them. That makes ME the fuckwad, because in every place, there are rules. Some less, some more, but theres no place anywhere thats totally free from any rules or laws. You play by them, and if you don't its your own stupid fault and shouldn't bitch about it.

Agree with it. You go to a private place, that place has rules. You may not like them so you can (a) tell about it and try to change them, accepting that the owners of the place can tell you to piss off, (b) play by them or (c) leave the place. If you break them you have to assume the consequences, not whine like a little bitch.

Quote from: droogWould you like me to talk about anal sex, David?

"This is about the truth coming out. You're a goddamn liberal, Mr.Garrison, you don't know shit, cause you never been fucked in the ass." - Willie O'Keefe (Kevin Bacon) - JFK

Regards,
David R

My problem is I never have anything meaningful to add to gaming threads. Frex, I looked up anything on the Serenity RPG yesterday. Everything that needed saying was there.

I could post Tang-worthy threads about bringing my kids into gaming, but that's just fluff and no one really gives a fuck about a pair of ankle-biters fumbling their way through 3E. And that's fine.

It's what I like about tBP. I can get all sorts of crazy ideas there for games, and post a  stupid story about my 4 year old saying something clever or cute while we flee a besieged city.

Quote from: David RI should pay more attention. I've seen you talk politics but no anal sex or a combination of both...like I said, I should pay more attention.

I may have touched on the combination years ago in Tangency.  I'd look, but searching RPGnet is nigh impossible these days.

Quote from: shewolfI could post Tang-worthy threads about bringing my kids into gaming, but that's just fluff and no one really gives a fuck about a pair of ankle-biters fumbling their way through 3E. And that's fine.

Ummmm...maybe someone does.  I mean, I don't know how old your are, but I'm always on the lookout for advice/info/opinions on this as I have a couple of linoleum lizards who seem a bit interested in that shit daddy is always looking at (no, not the porn - you sicko's).

Look at Ian's posts on his game for some inspiration...

Quote from: John MorrowI'd look, but searching RPGnet is nigh impossible these days.

What's with that? Searching for old threads about games I'm interested in buying is the biggest reason I went to RPGnet.

And I can't be the only one. You see all sorts of threads saying "so what's WFRP like?" and the people who gave long and useful answers in the last four threads asking the same question are tired of answering the same question over and over again. So they stop posting responses. Which sucks for newbies.

And nobody on RPGnet seems very concerned that the search is broken. Shit, why even archive old threads at all if you can't search - why not just clean the server once a week?

Quote from: HaffrungWhat's with that? Searching for old threads about games I'm interested in buying is the biggest reason I went to RPGnet.

And I can't be the only one. You see all sorts of threads saying "so what's WFRP like?" and the people who gave long and useful answers in the last four threads asking the same question are tired of answering the same question over and over again. So they stop posting responses. Which sucks for newbies.

And nobody on RPGnet seems very concerned that the search is broken. Shit, why even archive old threads at all if you can't search - why not just clean the server once a week?

Now, THIS, good sir, is the single most legitimate criticism of RPGnet I've seen.

You are absolutely right; the lack of a valid search function adds huge amounts of inutilium to the site.

Quote from: Old GeezerNow, THIS, good sir, is the single most legitimate criticism of RPGnet I've seen.

You are absolutely right; the lack of a valid search function adds huge amounts of inutilium to the site.

Which leads us to a subsequent criticism: Why isn't the search function functional anymore?  Because of data-bloat.  And what's driving the bloat?

Anyone?

!i!

Quote from: HaffrungAnd nobody on RPGnet seems very concerned that the search is broken. Shit, why even archive old threads at all if you can't search - why not just clean the server once a week?

And ironically, if they did clean the server they could probably install a functioning search engine!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhich leads us to a subsequent criticism: Why isn't the search function functional anymore?  Because of data-bloat.  And what's driving the bloat?

Anyone?

!i!

We know, we know.

 Many complained about that and got shouted down.
Hell they should just re-name that section Ban-gency.



- Ed C.

...by-the-way, Hinterwelt is on an interesterg tear in Trouble Tickets right now. (Sort of surprised that I was mentioned in the midst of that, and with my rpg.site handle too, not the one I had on there...)


Take a look:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=375066&page=10


- Ed C.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhich leads us to a subsequent criticism: Why isn't the search function functional anymore?  Because of data-bloat.  And what's driving the bloat?

Anyone?

!i!

Eh.  It's not really data-bloat so much as it is shitty coding.

They've admitted repeatedly that they've hacked the ever loving shit out of the code, to the point where it takes days, weeks, and even months to upgrade when a new version of vBulletin comes out, because they essentially go about repeating all the badly written hacks for the new version.

There are plenty of other sites as large, or larger, that run vBulletin, and do just fine.  It's a very popular software.  They could also switch to a more reliable software package like IPB, most forum software is free, open-source, so it's not like it would cost them anything.  Or they could just start again with a closer to original code version of vBulletin.

Their stated reason for not doing so is usually that they don't want to lose the old archives, but that's a load of bollocks, for two reasons.  One, because those archives don't do any one much good when it's such a goddamn nightmare to find anything in them, and two, there's nothing stopping them from just archiving them to text (a function already built-in and automated in vBulletin standard), and leaving them up to look through but not post in, like they did for the old pre-vB board.

The real reason has to do with the utter scam that is their "membership" business.  They don't want to part with it, but them not parting with it is one the very reasons why they have so many damn troubles with the site, and why it's a scam in the first place.

My enjoyment of this site is really fucked up by these revelations ;) . The thread was a borderline troll to begin with and back we go to old ways within a moment. How does Tangency and RPGnet affect this site again?

Post here or don't post here. Post there or don't post there (if you can ;) ). Post to both or don't post to both. It seems healthier to post about here, here and about there, there.

O.k. This seems as good a thread as any to ask this in. Man, I loathe doing this but asking the mods on RPG.Net to help incriminate themselves is counter productive.

Alright, I am in hand to had with The Powers That Be on a thread in TT. Why, I have no idea but I sited a guy that was banned for reporting a mod. He did so in a particularly vehement way. So much so that he was banned for a PA on a mod.

Does this ring any bells? Anyone remember the username?

Many thanks,
Bill

I can't help you with your info, Hinter, but man is it interesting to see them leap to defend Curt's modding.  

Of course, you could always bring up Jimbob being banned 'just because'... there you have a name and somewhere on this forum I believe he even posted the actual PM/email they sent him explaining the 'Just Because'...

Not that it would help you with your non-crusade, exactly...

Quote from: SpikeI can't help you with your info, Hinter, but man is it interesting to see them leap to defend Curt's modding.  

Of course, you could always bring up Jimbob being banned 'just because'... there you have a name and somewhere on this forum I believe he even posted the actual PM/email they sent him explaining the 'Just Because'...

Not that it would help you with your non-crusade, exactly...

Precisely. I am trying to be reasoned but I really am not all that fired up about this. I have gradually slacked off in my posting due to a number of reasons, not the least of which is the hypocrisy shown.

Jim Bob is a good example though. Especially where Darren is concerned.

Thanks,
Bill

Quote from: James J SkachUmmmm...maybe someone does.  I mean, I don't know how old your are, but I'm always on the lookout for advice/info/opinions on this as I have a couple of linoleum lizards who seem a bit interested in that shit daddy is always looking at (no, not the porn - you sicko's).

Look at Ian's posts on his game for some inspiration...

Pretty simple for us, really. Hide the dice until they have to use 'em, then tell 'em what to roll (d20, d4) and what it looks like ( the big one or the triangle) Allie, at 4 picked up the idea quickly. We gave her a human fighter to make it easier to play. My son, 9 at the time, just had trouble not aying shit like  I pull a rocket launcher otta my BUTT! and settle.

Wargaming was easer, and he's been doing that since he was 5.

Darren tries to attack ideas and not people.

That could well be the funniest thing I've read all year. Possibly all decade.

Though I have to admit, once he realised that Tangency was just a big Black Bug Room, he really seemed to mellow out. He's almost normal these days.

and now they are down again.  Just when I went to see the train wreck.  It's weird, everytime they go on a big mod tear, the site goes down.  It's almost like the internet itself is against them.

Quote from: walkerpand now they are down again.  Just when I went to see the train wreck.  It's weird, everytime they go on a big mod tear, the site goes down.  It's almost like the internet itself is against them.

It's been cutting in and out all day.

Must because I posted in trouble tickets.:haw:

maybe there's a scientology connection?  :haw:

Quote from: beebermaybe there's a scientology connection?  :haw:

we can only wish.

You know, though, it does have that scientology vibe.  Like all the mods talk amongst themselves as if there is some internal logic and hierarchical structure in their world, but none of it makes sense to anyone outside of it, except the wannabes who pretend  to understand what they are talking about and defend them in the vain hopes that they'll get better e-meter scores or whatever.

Worse, for me, is the talking down and general baby-ishness of the mod/user relationship.  I think it is inevitable in a heavily-moderated site and it is really refreshing for me to see this site where now that some of the anti-swine fervour has finally died down and 4e has allowed us to all hate WotC together, people are much better behaved.  I mean there really hasn't been a need for what would be the equivalent of an rpg.net mod call here in any of the sometimes heated discussions going on in the RPG section.

Solution for rpg.net:
1.  Get rid of Tangency
2.  Fix the search engine
3.  Get rid of the mods.

I don't think that is new to any of you.

Here's an example of the babyishness I'm talking about:

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Re: At what point does "you're wrong, no I'm not" become perpetuation?

I think that if your posting in this thread is any indication of your usual conversational style, McMurray, you got off lightly with a bit of red text.

Here's a bit more:

drop it.

You were told to take the debate elsewhere. This is not a debate, this is you attempting to browbeat the modstaff, and it is unacceptable.

From a thread where James McMurray got in trouble for talking about what was funny in the rpg motivational posters thread.

Quote from: SpikeI can't help you with your info, Hinter, but man is it interesting to see them leap to defend Curt's modding.

Interesting, but not surprising.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiInteresting, but not surprising.

I like the fact that supposedly Curt "cared about the site" hence the special treatment he got...gets. Man, if caring about the site was the criteria Kyle and you should have been mods or something....not merely contentious wankers...

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HinterWeltJim Bob is a good example though. Especially where Darren is concerned.

So far as I know, it was Eric Brennan (then a mod) gunning for me, not Darren MacLennan.

Ages ago, this bloke Patrick O'Duffy was posting about not having a game group, and he was being pretty snarky with other posters. So in some thread I teased him a bit, and said that he'd be much happier if he had a game group, and should come over to GameCircle.org, sign up and get one.

O'Duffy flipped out and called me a cunt, then reported himself. Brennan suspended him. I wrote to the mods asking them not to suspend O'Duffy. This started a minor shitstorm in Trouble Tickets. Turns out, Brennan and O'Duffy are buddies from way back, wrote some White Wolf book together or some shit like that. So now Brennan hated me because his buddy abused me and Brennan felt he had to suspend him. Then Brennan gave me what I call a "minefield warning". Basically, "we're watching you - you step out of line, and we'll jump on you."

While after that, I was permabanned. That was, what, two years ago now? A year after that O'Duffy wrote in his blog that he was still glad he'd told me I'm a cunt. Apparently he has a game group now and is much happier, but still hates me. I'd just followed the gaming blog links around one day when I stumbled on his statement. I'd been reading his blog for a little bit, and didn't even recognise his name. People hold grudges, I guess.

Obviously when I teased him about not having a game group and needing to cheer up, he was at a sensitive point in his life, feeling down from coming back to his old town of Melbourne, not knowing many people and so on. So I really pisssed him off, and his friend leapt to his defence - as friends should.

What it comes down to is personal dislike. A mod took a personal dislike to me, so looked for any excuse to permaban me.

Every discussion forum's rules come to down to, don't fuck with the mods. Looking at the thread HinterWelt's talking about, apparently that's a controversial thing to say. I don't really see why. If you piss off the people ruling some place, your stay will be short. These guys are not High Court Justices trained for years in impartiality, they're just geeks like the rest of us. So they'll take personal likes and dislikes and make them into policy.

I think it's important to be clear about the circumstances of my banning, because if I'm going to be used as ammunition in a little battle against rpg.net, it should be done with truth and not nonsense. I'd really rather not, though. A site is what people make of it. You change or reinforce what rpg.net is by posting to it. You should make positive contributions to a discussion forum rather than... I dunno, whatever the fuck this is. Build up rather than tear down.

Of course, that doesn't always work, they might ban you anyway. And some of us are no longer able to build anything up, because of permabans. But shit happens.

Quote from: Kyle AaronSo far as I know, it was Eric Brennan (then a mod) gunning for me, not Darren MacLennan.

For the record Kyle, my comparison was in terms of the "Skirting just inside the rules" and being banned for it. You were (ostensibly) banned for this while Darren, who admitted to the same behavior, is praised as a mod. I do not like hypocrisy, it gives me indigestion.

This is not to say I believe the mods of RPG.net to be the agensts of Satan. As you state, they are geeks. Apparently, though, they are sensitive geeks. I still wonder if I tread too close to the truth or some such with the rather vehement response.

Thanks for the back story.

Bill (apparently a disciple of yours and a weak minded tool of RPGSite). :keke:

Quote from: HinterWeltBill (apparently a disciple of yours and a weak minded tool of RPGSite). :keke:

At least this is way better than being called ex-girlfriends...or the other considered term - ex-prison bitch

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HinterWeltI do not like hypocrisy, it gives me indigestion.

Nor do I, but some time with platoon sergeants taught me to tolerate it. "Do as I say, not as I do."

Quote from: HinterWeltThis is not to say I believe the mods of RPG.net to be the agensts of Satan. As you state, they are geeks. Apparently, though, they are sensitive geeks.

Of course they're sensitive geeks. These exist everywhere. They obviously were not beaten enough as children.

Quote from: HinterWeltThanks for the back story.

There was a lengthy thread here (started by me) when I got bannzorzed. At first I was just posting in puzzlement... "generally bad for the site"?! You can still find that thread, since this place has a working search function :p

Quote from: HinterWeltBill (apparently a disciple of yours and a weak minded tool of RPGSite). :keke:

Awesome, I always wanted my own disciples! I had a few drooling fanboys when I put out d4-d4, but gamers are a fickle lot and they soon drifted away.

Quote from: droogWould you like me to talk about anal sex, David?

I think I can safely speak for all Davids everywhere when I say "please don't".

THIS page :

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=375066&page=16


Two of the users that mention me by name-"handle" are on other forums that I am on or could e-mail me directly. If you guys want to ask - just send me a PM or an e-mail.


 Oh , and by-the-way , good 'ol petty Nina punished me and someone else from here for something we weren't even doing up in the roleplaying section over there. She said we were trying to start an inter-forum conflict (inter-board) . Which wasn't true. In the thread in question, I said a humorous aside  (that was funnier if you knew stuff that had been said over here...but still normal funny too) I didn't do any link posting.  Instead of warning the actual offender - she warned "ME" and 1 other from over here. (I"m trying to remember who it was)

This was maybe  back in September during the whole Poison'd batch of argument threads.


- Ed C.

Koltar enough of this PM nonsense. Just tell us what happened. This thread could use the excitement :D

Regards,
David R

I rarely venture into TT, but the unusual longevity of that thread finally piqued my interest and I went to see the trainwreck :D
 
As I approach the age where I pause and look in the window of Marks & Sparks and think "Hey, nice slippers." I've found one old saying to be fairly accurate - Birds of a Feather, Flock together.
 
They made Curt a Mod, and evidently they still think he was a hoopy cool frood who really knew where his towel was. Darren is a mod. Eric might as well be.
Enough said on that score.
 
I think Hinterwelt ought to change his user title to "Befuddled by the shiny lights of TheRPGSite", and Jamescat is right - the correct course of action for Koltar was to challenge Shannon to Bat'leth's at dawn :D

Quote from: KoltarTHIS page :

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=375066&page=16


Two of the users that mention me by name-"handle" are on other forums that I am on or could e-mail me directly. If you guys want to ask - just send me a PM or an e-mail.

- Ed C.

The only reason I brought you up is that I was pretty sure you were the poster Hinterwelt was discussing but unable to recall the name of.  I'd forgotten you'd been accused of threatening to sue.  Rpgnet's mods are undoubtedly sandbagging the doors and checking their ammo for another mod war at this point.

Quote from: David RI like the fact that supposedly Curt "cared about the site" hence the special treatment he got...gets. Man, if caring about the site was the criteria Kyle and you should have been mods or something....not merely contentious wankers...

Yes. I care too much. That's my problem!

Seanchai

Well, I conceded. Sigh. I hate when I get brainwas....I.Love.My.RPGSite.Masters......


Bill (Faithful Disciple of the Holy RPGSite)

One point, many of the most interesting rpg posters are over here instead of there because guess what?  Interesting posters have strong opinions.  I'm okay, you're okay is dull, dull, dull reading.

Know what you get when you remove conflict from the story?

PABLUM

Put differently, time was an assbasket could be called an assbasket. This is no longer possible.

A popular fallacy is to mistake this change of tone for the disappearance of assbasketry.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPut differently, time was an assbasket could be called an assbasket. This is no longer possible.

A popular fallacy is to mistake this change of tone for the disappearance of assbasketry.

Agreed. I'm still trying to find out if someone saying I "jill off to rush" is an attack.

Annoying, and typical of discussion there. Didn't bother to report it, either. Not worth it. I'm damn near 30 fer chrissake. I can handle name-calling and snarky children.

Quote from: shewolfAgreed. I'm still trying to find out if someone saying I "jill off to rush" is an attack.

Annoying, and typical of discussion there. Didn't bother to report it, either. Not worth it. I'm damn near 30 fer chrissake. I can handle name-calling and snarky children.

If you mean what I think you mean - then I had a past girlfriend who actually did what you describe.  (But only 'cuz listening to Rush would remind her of me...then she'd get a bit horny. Didn't matter if it was the talk radio guy or the rock group - I've listened to both)


- Ed C.



Okay....that was maybe "TMI" territory up above.....sorry about that.

Man, I swear, it is an illness. Why do I keep trying? Now, they are saying my ancient quotes of Darren's behavior are inadmissible. When the hell did I go from giving advice to some sort of court date?

Grr,
Bill

Bill, I have to say Darren's post in that TT thread was the first by him I've seen in months. More generally, for a very long time now moderator presence in RPG Open has been nigh invisible.

One might argue this is because many users now subscribe to the Assbasketry Fallacy, defined above, while others have become very good at instrumentalizing it for their purposes.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBill, I have to say Darren's post in that TT thread was the first by him I've seen in months. More generally, for a very long time now moderator presence in RPG Open has been nigh invisible.

One might argue this is because many users now subscribe to the Assbasketry Fallacy, defined above, while others have become very good at instrumentalizing it for their purposes.

Yes. And, see, the point they seem to miss is that I was using his past example of unacceptable behavior. I mean, I have no idea Curt and Darren's current posting style nor do I care. It is just an example that I thought event he mods could nod their heads to and say "Yeah, that was bad but it wont happen again because...".

Meh. I need to stop posting on that thread. Get back to some calligraphy and printing up Shaolin Squirrels shipment.

Bill

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBill, I have to say Darren's post in that TT thread was the first by him I've seen in months.

I have to admit that I found Future Villain Band's (née Eric Brennan) defense of Darren quite precious: "Darren has been doing a good job at not repeating old mistakes."  One might infer from this statement that, at one point in time, he wasn't doing such a good job at it.

!i!

Fucking DUH, Ian. Of course for a time he wasn't doing a good job. He admits as much himself.

Darren's sledgehammer modding was mostly hilarious and sometimes grating. Now it's dull as fuck, i.e. like rpg.net as a whole.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityFucking DUH, Ian.

Aw, now, see?  I was trying to be subtle and ironic.  Serves me right.

But you know, you put your finger right on the essential problem with the moderation at RPG.net -- back in the wild and woolly days, it could be hilarious.  But then, so could the non-moderator commentary.  Anyway, part of what must have been seen as a perk of being a mod or admin was the entertainment factor of riding in on a diatribe and unleashing a pack of ravenening hyperbole on the offender.  There came a time, though, when that sort of thing became forbidden for the average poster, but it continued as the prevailing modding style of Darren, Eric, Curt, and sometimes Cessna.

In the thread that Bill's been mired in, Scurrilous was right on when he suggested that this old double-standard persists as a source of distrust for many at RPG.net (and many who've since left, of course).  Dead on.

!i!

OK well, pardon my well-known jocular coarseness.

The fact remains that for years now rpg.net has been as complain-worthy, and as exciting, as distilled water. Darren & co. and the issues people have with them are things of the past. Admittedly, the past was more fun, so one rather dwells on that than on the tedious present. But really, one shouldn't.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityOK well, pardon my well-known jocular coarseness.

You are rather the brute, aren't you?

!i!

Quote from: KoltarIf you mean what I think you mean - then I had a past girlfriend who actually did what you describe.  (But only 'cuz listening to Rush would remind her of me...then she'd get a bit horny. Didn't matter if it was the talk radio guy or the rock group - I've listened to both)


- Ed C.



Okay....that was maybe "TMI" territory up above.....sorry about that.

:eek:  Yeah, it's the female version of crankin' one off.

Damn, I love listening to Rush, but I'm not that big a fan....

Plus, I gots me a man that works from home. I'd just have to walk across the room :D






Should I take it to Tangency? :confused: :D

Not an issue anymore Hinter! Gizmit solved the problem by closing it.

QuoteThis has become ridiculous and way off-topic. GamingPoet, if you feel your question has not been answered, please open another thread.

Closed.

Quote from: shewolfNot an issue anymore Hinter! Gizmit solved the problem by closing it.

About fucking time to.  What a pointless and stupid arguement that was.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralAbout fucking time to.  What a pointless and stupid arguement that was.

You know, I was one half of that "argument" and I agree wholeheartedly. Note though, they let the squad get in the final pokes before closing. Ah, well, for the best.

I still wonder exactly what I was supposed to be arguing for/against? Any clues? Was it to banish the mod staff? Was it that the dismissal of Darren as a mod? Maybe I was somehow arguing that the mods are fascist overlords? I didn;t do that last one well though. Hmm, ah well. Better off closed.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltYou know, I was one half of that "argument" and I agree wholeheartedly. Note though, they let the squad get in the final pokes before closing. Ah, well, for the best.

I still wonder exactly what I was supposed to be arguing for/against? Any clues? Was it to banish the mod staff? Was it that the dismissal of Darren as a mod? Maybe I was somehow arguing that the mods are fascist overlords? I didn;t do that last one well though. Hmm, ah well. Better off closed.

Bill

I don't even understand what your fucking purpose was at all.  Thats how poorly you expressed yourself and responded to quotes.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityDarren's sledgehammer modding was mostly hilarious and sometimes grating. Now it's dull as fuck, i.e. like rpg.net as a whole.

I dunno if you read some of the recent Palladium threads, but it ain't really changed much.

Seanchai

Quote from: HinterWeltI still wonder exactly what I was supposed to be arguing for/against?

You critiqued the moderation.

Have you ever gone to some well-established game group, sat through a few sessions, and then critiqued the GM? Said, "99% of everything is great, but there's this one tiny thing that bothers me..." and then this unholy fight breaks out, with the GM wildly defending everything they do, including things you're not attacking, and all those gamers who've been with the GM for years aggressively defending them in public, but privately saying to you they agree?

Basically, it's the same shit.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralI don't even understand what your fucking purpose was at all.  Thats how poorly you expressed yourself and responded to quotes.

The problem was, I had no purpose. I was giving a poster advice. If I was a bit brighter, i would not responded at all but the poor guy was floundering.

Ah, well, perhaps I have learned a lessen here.

Bill

Quote from: Kyle AaronYou critiqued the moderation.

Have you ever gone to some well-established game group, sat through a few sessions, and then critiqued the GM? Said, "99% of everything is great, but there's this one tiny thing that bothers me..." and then this unholy fight breaks out, with the GM wildly defending everything they do, including things you're not attacking, and all those gamers who've been with the GM for years aggressively defending them in public, but privately saying to you they agree?

Basically, it's the same shit.

So, it really did not matter what I was "demanding" right? That was my take but I was not sure. It seemed for a moment like we were supposed to be discussing it rationally...Again, lesson learned, move along.

Bill

Edit: I forgot. Thank you for your wisdom master. ;)

No, it didn't matter what you were or weren't demanding.

The mods are human, and therefore form a group which bonds in various ways. One of the ways they bond is by supporting one another's decisions and conduct, and by asserting a common code of behaviour for all users, mod or otherwise. Pointing out inconsistency or hypocricy directly threatens those particular bonds, since they must either undermine one another's decisions and conduct, or admit there is no real common code of behaviour.

It's sort of like getting a rules lawyer GM and pointing out that he fudged some dice rolls. Nobody will thank you for it.

Like I said, just think of them as like one of those well-established game groups where only those who've been there at least six years get to say anything negative about the game sessions.

It's a clique. Just like old Tangency.

Also, you were dumb. "Don't fuck with the mods," was your advice, and you then proceeded to... fuck with the mods. Darren won't give a fuck, he's vitriolic not vengeful, but Brennan will be watching out for you. Yes, I know, I know, he's not a mod - sorry, no such thing as an ex-mod, because it's a clique.

Don't fuck with the mods. You need to be able to post on rpg.net to help publicise your rpgs.

As far as  discussions on Mod rulings is concerned, Trouble Tickets is useless. The lesson is if you don't like "keeping your head down" and "playing well with others" as defined by the Mods, don't bother posting on tBP. All this drama like porn gets tiresome after awhile.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Kyle AaronAlso, you were dumb. "Don't fuck with the mods," was your advice, and you then proceeded to... fuck with the mods. Darren won't give a fuck, he's vitriolic not vengeful, but Brennan will be watching out for you. Yes, I know, I know, he's not a mod - sorry, no such thing as an ex-mod, because it's a clique.

Don't fuck with the mods. You need to be able to post on rpg.net to help publicise your rpgs.

Agreed and admitted to. I let my emotions get the better of me. As to the posting on RPG.Net, well, I don't really do much of that anymore except in the capacity of highly generic vanilla "X is the answer to Y" and "Here is a new product".

As I said, I will most likely be posting even less on the site if that is possible. I definitely will not be straying into TT again.

Bill

Quote from: shewolfAgreed. I'm still trying to find out if someone saying I "jill off to rush" is an attack.

Yeah, see, that's the trick. You typically make well-intentioned and totally non-inflamatory remarks over there, but since anyone to the right of Mao Tse Tung is considered Hitler's drinking buddy, that's the kind of comments you can expect. I wouldn't be surprised if 2/3 of the rabble have you on their IL.

I'm kinda wondering why we bother.

Talking about RPG.Net, I mean.

Well, in my case, I'm actually a Turing program and its on my keyword list. Sorry.

Oh yeah. No problem though. Every so often, I get into a discussion and it goes well, like the education one there. Basically trying to figure out how to fix it (since we're all in positions to fix things, right? :rolleyes:) and the idea mom and I have for a private school would actually work, according to them.

Which means I should scrap it and start over :D

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I'm kinda wondering why we bother.

Talking about RPG.Net, I mean.

In my case, it's nostalgia ;)

For me, I lament RPG.net because there are a lot of cool and clever gaming folks -- no, seriously, people who play and write games -- who won't set foot in these parts.  And since I quickly grow weary of wading through the chaff over there, well...I don't see much of them anymore.

!i!

So send 'em e-mails and tell 'em what you just posted here.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!So send 'em e-mails and tell 'em what you just posted here.

Unfortunately, as long as we keep dredging up years-old grudges against a board the majority of whose users are obviously comfortable with the way things are run there, and not focus on the things that make this place cool, then many will always see this as the "Land of Broken Toys Who Got Booted From RPG.net And Can't Stop Whining About It".  I am not sure I'd blame them, even though I consider this place FAR more comfortable and productive.


TGA

See, I like Tangency and I like keetoms, pie, weirdness, and silliness.  I do think it would be good if Tangency migrated to its own site and became a more general, less moderated forum.

Hey, folks.

I'm not here to defend myself, my fellow Mods, the need for Mods or for Tangency, or RPGnet as a whole.

I do, however, want to give Hackmastergeneral some serious props, as well as to offer my reasoning for the length of his suspension.

When someone who's been around RPGnet a long time and makes a blatant rules violation -- which Hackmastergeneral freely admits that he did -- I consider issuing a warning to be not just pointless, but also insulting to the intelligence of the poster in question. In such cases, I go straight to a minimum one-day suspension.

Now, Hackmastergeneral had a relatively recent warning from me for making what I considered to be a personal attack specifically worded to try to circumvent the letter of the rules. This would have led me to make the penalty for a second violation one step harsher. So, I made what would have otherwise been a one-day suspension into a three-day suspension.

Hackmastergeneral emailed me to discuss the matter, and he did so completely without vitriol. He said that he thought I had misinterpreted the post for which I warned him, which I accept, and said that while he accepted the suspension for the new violation as valid, he thought the length was a little excessive.

And you know what? He was right. I should have just made it a two-day ban, and I lifted the ban with about five hours left.

In short, he accepted responsibility for his actions while speaking his mind on the matter reasonably and respectfully. Which makes him a quality individual in my book.

Thread closed.

;)

:D

Edit: Oh, crap. I posted to this thread. I'm on a list somewhere on tBP now, aren't I?

Quote from: David JohansenSee, I like Tangency and I like keetoms, pie, weirdness, and silliness.  I do think it would be good if Tangency migrated to its own site and became a more general, less moderated forum.

Me too.

By the way, you forgot boobies, peeners, and buttsex.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianUnfortunately, as long as we keep dredging up years-old grudges against a board the majority of whose users are obviously comfortable with the way things are run there, and not focus on the things that make this place cool, then many will always see this as the "Land of Broken Toys Who Got Booted From RPG.net And Can't Stop Whining About It".  I am not sure I'd blame them, even though I consider this place FAR more comfortable and productive.


TGA

Ding!  Winner.

The best way to show how much better this place is than RPGnet is...

... to be better than RPGnet.

We already are in quality. Just not in quantity.

Screw you Davenport. Send Darren or Brennan here. There is no place for reasonable on threads like this. I want to see blood or at the very least, the "black sperm of Brennan's vengence". I mean who the hell do you think you are ? Coming here all polite and all. This is theRPGsite, where all evil apparently flows...wait a minute...isn't this what RPGnet is....stop confusing me. Get into character....

Regards,
David R

Woot! Woot! Woot! Woot!

!i!

Quote from: Old GeezerMe too.

By the way, you forgot boobies, peeners, and buttsex.

Not by accident...

Quote from: Dan DavenportHey, folks.

Hey.

I knew this thread had legs.

rpg.net's a big site, takes a long time to complain about it properly.

Quote from: David RScrew you Davenport. Send Darren or Brennan here.

Yeah. There's no point to being on a mod-free site if the unofficial RPGnet representative is a decent guy. Roll Darren on over here so he can be "clever" in a place where his constituents can be "clever" back...

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiYeah. There's no point to being on a mod-free site if the unofficial RPGnet representative is a decent guy. Roll Darren on over here so he can be "clever" in a place where his constituents can be "clever" back...

Seanchai

 ...or maybe Nina could comment on here, or Gizmit.

Wasn't there an old thread where Curt actually posted something on this forum?


- Ed c.

Quote from: Koltar...or maybe Nina could comment on here, or Gizmit.

Wasn't there an old thread where Curt actually posted something on this forum?


- Ed c.

Why should they give a flying fuck Ed? Why do we give a flying fuck? This thread was started in the heat of the moment to stir things up over a 3 day ban (whoopee doo-shit) on another site. Nothing to do with us or this site

Quote from: David RScrew you Davenport. Send Darren or Brennan here. There is no place for reasonable on threads like this. I want to see blood or at the very least, the "black sperm of Brennan's vengence". I mean who the hell do you think you are ? Coming here all polite and all. This is theRPGsite, where all evil apparently flows...wait a minute...isn't this what RPGnet is....stop confusing me. Get into character....

Regards,
David R

The black sperm of Brennan's vengance?

OMFG I broke a kidneys...

Quote from: One Horse TownWhy should they give a flying fuck Ed? Why do we give a flying fuck? This thread was started in the heat of the moment to stir things up over a 3 day ban (whoopee doo-shit) on another site. Nothing to do with us or this site

Actually it was none of those things.

There was no "heat of the moment" - as I was never angry or upset.

It was a lame joke meant to point out how many of these threads and how many posts have been started by people who got shitcanned for stupid nonsensical shit, yet somehow feel impunged and violated and come here to spew shit, when they acted like a jackass.

But again, I almost immediately apologized, as making the joke marginalized the work people have put into trying to make this place something more than just "not RPG.net" or "the place the castaways from RPG.net come to bitch about RPG.net and occasionally gaming".  Something I was very vocal about here for a while - that Pundit's constant railing over RPG.net, and an incident that was many years in the past, was holding this place back from being all it could be, and ditching the "we are everything RPG.net isn't" vibe would be the first step towards making this place its OWN place, not just the vitrolic mirror to tBP.

Dan

Thanks for the words, and it kinda makes me sad that simply accepting a minor suspension with good grace is worthy of special notation, and NOT flinging vitriol in the face of punishment deserved worthy of commendation.

So it was a troll with a retraction then? Thanks.

Quote from: One Horse TownSo it was a troll with a retraction then? Thanks.

I think "joke" is a bit more appropriate.  It wasn't a "troll", and if that is your idea of a trolling post, you've clearly been spending not enough time on teh intarwebz.

If it was really a troll, I think there would have been more mispellings, more allcaps, and quite frankly more anger.

But whatever dude.  Get your passive-aggressive on.  Whatever makes you feel superior.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralI think "joke" is a bit more appropriate.  It wasn't a "troll", and if that is your idea of a trolling post, you've clearly been spending not enough time on teh intarwebz.

If it was really a troll, I think there would have been more mispellings, more allcaps, and quite frankly more anger.

But whatever dude.  Get your passive-aggressive on.  Whatever makes you feel superior.

Nice try buckaroo. You got banned and you posted here on a well worn track. Backtrack aside, you knew what would happen. Me feel superior? I lose count of the folks who think they can come here and play about with the place and stir crap up whilst not giving a shit. How is this thread any different?

Edit: It seems my humour circuits are malfunctioning a bit. Just a bit frustrated that this ended up being the same ol', same ol'. I see the quick apology that i forgot, so offer my own in reply. Still, you shoulda known...

Quote from: Kyle AaronWe already are in quality. Just not in quantity.

Sometimes, yes.  There have been a few discussions here that have been frankly brilliant.  And the more people here adopt the attitude of "Never MIND RPGnet", the better this place will be.  I go to both because with different people you get different ideas.  Period.

Some threads here are brilliant.

This one?  Not so much, perhaps.

Quote from: Koltar...or maybe Nina could comment on here, or Gizmit.

Wasn't there an old thread where Curt actually posted something on this forum?


- Ed c.

Please just stop, Ed.  This discussion does this place no credit.


TGA

Quote from: One Horse TownNice try buckaroo. You got banned and you posted here on a well worn track. Backtrack aside, you knew what would happen. Me feel superior? I lose count of the folks who think they can come here and play about with the place and stir crap up whilst not giving a shit. How is this thread any different?

Edit: It seems my humour circuits are malfunctioning a bit. Just a bit frustrated that this ended up being the same ol', same ol'. I see the quick apology that i forgot, so offer my own in reply. Still, you shoulda known...

In all fairness OHT, you might note that we haven't really had any threads at all on this subject in a pretty long time.  

I can kinda see your point though, in that this thread didn't exactly help, however.

True J, which is why it stuck out to me. Anyhoo, no harm, no foul.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralThe black sperm of Brennan's vengance?

OMFG I broke a kidneys...

Actually if I'm not mistaken, it's Brennan himself who made this joke on some thread on tBP.

Koltar I was just joking. I don't think the Mods have to come here to defend their record. I don't want folks who were banned there to come here and post about it. It's why I suggested moving topics like these to the Pundit's forum - but even the Pundit of late has stopped obsessing about tBP. I take this to mean that this site is doing it's own thing and nobody really gives a damn about what happens over there.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: One Horse TownNice try buckaroo. You got banned and you posted here on a well worn track. Backtrack aside, you knew what would happen. Me feel superior? I lose count of the folks who think they can come here and play about with the place and stir crap up whilst not giving a shit. How is this thread any different?

Edit: It seems my humour circuits are malfunctioning a bit. Just a bit frustrated that this ended up being the same ol', same ol'. I see the quick apology that i forgot, so offer my own in reply. Still, you shoulda known...

My intention really wasn't to stir things up, seriously.  OK, I admit, it was kinda "poking with a stick" kinda joshing, in that I've seen time after time someone get banned and come over here and rant and rave, and when I got mine, I came over here with the stereotypical rantish title, but in the post I don't think "I fucking deserved it" is the common intro post in those situations, non?

But yeah, I suppose I should have expected this reaction sooner or later.  But I seriously meant no disrespect to RPGsite as a whole (individual posters, well, maybe a BIT, but in a more ironic and sarcastic way, not so much a "fuckYOUUUU" way).

But again, I'm still here after my suspension has been lifted.  That, I think, says volumes about how far you guys have come along.  If anyone really gives a shit....

Quote from: Old GeezerSometimes, yes.  There have been a few discussions here that have been frankly brilliant.  And the more people here adopt the attitude of "Never MIND RPGnet", the better this place will be.  I go to both because with different people you get different ideas.  Period.

Some threads here are brilliant.

This one?  Not so much, perhaps.

I never intended it to be brilliant.  But we can't hit home runs all the time.

But I think some good stuff has come out of it, seriously.  Some discussion about this site, and pointing out how it differs from, say, a few years ago.  Recognition of people trying to make this a different place.

Me finally realizing that it HAS changed.  Its led to a big change in my attitude over this site, I can tell you that.

Quote from: David Reven the Pundit of late has stopped obsessing about tBP.

As I understand it, at the moment he's getting laid.

Just sayin', you know...

Quote from: Kyle AaronAs I understand it, at the moment he's getting laid.

Just sayin', you know...

There is something to be said for having one's prorities in the right order.


- Ed C.

MONTHS AGO, I observed on this here board that Pundy seemed, quote, emotionally unavailable, unquote.

Pretty impressive, you gotta admit.

Quote from: Kyle AaronAs I understand it, at the moment he's getting laid.

Just sayin', you know...

What..... he's never heard of multitasking ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RWhat..... he's never heard of multitasking ?

When you're not used to something, it's hard to do other things at the same time.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralMy intention really wasn't to stir things up, seriously.  OK, I admit, it was kinda "poking with a stick" kinda joshing, in that I've seen time after time someone get banned and come over here and rant and rave, and when I got mine, I came over here with the stereotypical rantish title, but in the post I don't think "I fucking deserved it" is the common intro post in those situations, non?

But yeah, I suppose I should have expected this reaction sooner or later.  But I seriously meant no disrespect to RPGsite as a whole (individual posters, well, maybe a BIT, but in a more ironic and sarcastic way, not so much a "fuckYOUUUU" way).

But again, I'm still here after my suspension has been lifted.  That, I think, says volumes about how far you guys have come along.  If anyone really gives a shit....

No worries dude! :)

Quote from: One Horse TownWhy do we give a flying fuck?

Why do you? You've clearly been following the thread. And responding to posts in it. If I recall, this isn't the first time you've exhibited such behavior in similar threads.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiWhy do you? You've clearly been following the thread. And responding to posts in it. If I recall, this isn't the first time you've exhibited such behavior in similar threads.

Seanchai

Someone cares about me! Ahh...;)

Quote from: SeanchaiWhy do you [give a flying fuck]?

I believe it was a rhetorical question.  Why do any of us give a flying fuck about anything?  Rather a commentary on the human condition and purpose in life, I suppose.

!i!

Quote from: HackmastergeneralSomething I was very vocal about here for a while - that Pundit's constant railing over RPG.net, and an incident that was many years in the past, was holding this place back from being all it could be, and ditching the "we are everything RPG.net isn't" vibe would be the first step towards making this place its OWN place, not just the vitrolic mirror to tBP.

TheRPGsite IS its own place, very much so, AND its also "everything RPG.net isn't"; in the sense that we have free speech here, they don't there.

RPGPundit

Quote from: David Rbut even the Pundit of late has stopped obsessing about tBP. I take this to mean that this site is doing it's own thing and nobody really gives a damn about what happens over there.

I've stopped talking about RPG.net so much in part because of what you say above, but also in part because I WON.

TheRPGsite's very existence proved that RPG.net's ultrafacism was not a "necessary" way to have "good conversation" without which there'd just be anarchy and nothing worth seeing; instead I proved that in fact, the ultra-high levels of moderation that RPG.net had at that time were actively working against the creation of interesting discussion.

So what did they do? They changed. Got rid of a couple of their mods, changed their policies, and basically greatly diminished their moderator abuse of power. In essence, and obviously never being able to bear the humiliation of stating it outright, they have ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT.

If you want to pretend that theRPGsite wasn't responsible for that, do as you like. But the timeline matches up pretty fucking well.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI believe it was a rhetorical question.  Why do any of us give a flying fuck about anything?  Rather a commentary on the human condition and purpose in life, I suppose.

Could be. But it was sandwiched between a lot of nanny goating.

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPunditSo what did they do? They changed. Got rid of a couple of their mods, changed their policies, and basically greatly diminished their moderator abuse of power. In essence, and obviously never being able to bear the humiliation of stating it outright, they have ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT.

TheRPGsite (and you) did all of the above, huh? Yeah, we showed them.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: RPGPunditIn essence, and obviously never being able to bear the humiliation of stating it outright, they have ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT.

The alchemy of intent aside, isn't that a direct contradiction?

!i!

I think he means "actions speak louder than words", or something.

Like if some guy is wrestling with a machine, and you say, "use the Allen key on the doohickey," and he says, "no, that would fuck the machine up," then after another half hour of messing about he then uses the Allen key on the doohickey, and things work out fine, you can say, "see? Now you admit I was right!"

Which of course supposes that he heard you, and that he really is now using the Allen key on the doohickey, rather than supposing that he never even noticed you, and in fact is only using something that looks a bit like an Allen key but really is his own idea and approach... but still.

Somewhere people wrestle machines?  Am I living on the wrong planet again?

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSomewhere people wrestle machines?  Am I living on the wrong planet again?

!i!

If the machine is Julie Newmar in "My Living Doll"...

:D

double post

You double-posted 19 minutes apart?   You are getting old, Old Geezer.

Double post.

[Edit: There.  I beat him by, like, 13 hours.]

maybe I'm dwelling on this uselessly and all but I read this thread. Then I read some of the threads in Trouble Tickets.

And it basically reaffirmed why I use RPG.net exclusively as a place where I can read a few scoops without feeling the need to participate anymore.

The thing that scared me the most was Darren MacLennan basically brushing off the fact he used to be abusive. Him and the whole mod crew seem to readily admit it and yet, he remains there. And the usual cast of regular ass-kissers celebrating that fact, desperately looking for mod validation.

Makes me want to throw up.

The other thing I didn't like was seeing a few posters I respect over there short-changing the RPGsite. I'm NOT saying this place is perfect. But I think there's still an undeserved reputation attached to it that might prevent some people from trying. I know it had that effect on me for a while.

Quote from: Consonant Dudemaybe I'm dwelling on this uselessly and all but I read this thread. Then I read some of the threads in Trouble Tickets.

And it basically reaffirmed why I use RPG.net exclusively as a place where I can read a few scoops without feeling the need to participate anymore.

The thing that scared me the most was Darren MacLennan basically brushing off the fact he used to be abusive. Him and the whole mod crew seem to readily admit it and yet, he remains there. And the usual cast of regular ass-kissers celebrating that fact, desperately looking for mod validation.

Makes me want to throw up.

The other thing I didn't like was seeing a few posters I respect over there short-changing the RPGsite. I'm NOT saying this place is perfect. But I think there's still an undeserved reputation attached to it that might prevent some people from trying. I know it had that effect on me for a while.

I think the point was that the guy brought up an ANCIENT post, and tried to use it as some sort of hammer to get his point across, much like how a politician will bring up an opponents voting record from 10 years ago like its some brand new thing.  Not to mention, Darren's mod style HAS changed.  Actions speak louder than words.  He's changed.

I lament that, in some ways, as damn some of his rants were fuckin hilarious.  But, on the other, yeah, there were some times he didn't just jump over the line, but ramped over em like Evil Kenevil.  I think him admitting it, and having changed, is better than the alternative.

I don't care what happened 3 years ago - I care whats going on now.  

It was stupid arguement and a stupid point.

And I have to say - "scared" you?  SCARED you?  Either thats a hysterically unintentional use of hyperbole, or you have the spine of a 2 year old.  You are SCARED of something said on an internet site about gaming about a person you have never met (likely), a post that has NOTHING to do with you, on a website you admit you don't even post to any more.

Dude...

They're not funny or cool. I mean, call me old fashioned or something, but I only think its really cool to kick the crap out of someone with a baseball bat if said someone is able to fight back and you beat him anyways. On the other hand, if the person is tied up and helpless, and the law says that resisting the beating constitutes justification for said beating, its just pathetic bullying.

I love heaping insults on people here and elsewhere, but only because I'm man enough to do it to someone who's allowed to fight back.  Darren stopped being "amusing" the second that moderation policy allowed him to heap insult and abuse on people without the right to respond.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditI love heaping insults on people here and elsewhere, but only because I'm man enough to do it to someone who's allowed to fight back.

Exactly.

And what's up with Hackmastergeneral and his defense of RPGnet ? I mean after what Dan posted, is there any reason to carry on with this topic?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HackmastergeneralI think the point was that the guy brought up an ANCIENT post, and tried to use it as some sort of hammer to get his point across, much like how a politician will bring up an opponents voting record from 10 years ago like its some brand new thing.  Not to mention, Darren's mod style HAS changed.  Actions speak louder than words.  He's changed.

I lament that, in some ways, as damn some of his rants were fuckin hilarious.

He's a mean-spirited person. He always has been online, from way before the forums were even moderated. He has no fucking business moderating a website.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralAnd I have to say - "scared" you?  SCARED you?  Either thats a hysterically unintentional use of hyperbole, or you have the spine of a 2 year old.

It was a figure of speech. I trust that people who aren't desperately looking to disagree with me will understand that.

But that's probably too much to ask from a little bitch like you.

Quote from: Consonant DudeBut that's probably too much to ask from a little bitch like you.

:eek:
REPORTED!

Oh. Wrong forum.:o

Quote from: David RExactly.

And what's up with Hackmastergeneral and his defense of RPGnet ? I mean after what Dan posted, is there any reason to carry on with this topic?

Regards,
David R

No, and that is why I am not going to respond to his baiting. ;)

Bill

FYI, for all the historians, ancient is now 18 months.:rolleyes:

Quote from: HackmastergeneralAnd I have to say - "scared" you?  SCARED you?  Either thats a hysterically unintentional use of hyperbole, or you have the spine of a 2 year old.  You are SCARED of something said on an internet site about gaming about a person you have never met (likely), a post that has NOTHING to do with you, on a website you admit you don't even post to any more.

Dude...

By the same token, if it's stupid and wrong to be scared, isn't it stupid and wrong to be offended by something someone said online? And if that's so, what does rpg.net need its rules for? Why then were you suspended for insulting someone?

Either it's stupid and wrong to be at all affected by words on a screen, or it's not. If it's not stupid and wrong to be affected by words on a screen, then it's reasonable for rpg.net to have rules; if not, then not.

You can't go around defending a bunch of rules on the basis that words affect people, and then turn around and say, "oh but these particular words shouldn't affect you." You're saying, "words really matter! except when they don't." That's bullshit.

Quote from: David RAnd what's up with Hackmastergeneral and his defense of RPGnet ? I mean after what Dan posted, is there any reason to carry on with this topic?

He's building up brownie points with the mods. That was the whole purpose of the thread, why else would he post about being banned and then saying he deserved it? And from Dan's words, we see that he continued in the confessional/repentance vein in private emails, too. From his confession and repentance, he was allowed a generous remittance of five hours of his sentence. The mods like it when you confess and repent, it reinforces their sense that the whole mod structure and rules and so on are necessary and good.

If he builds up enough brownie points, he can even get permabanned and then come back as a mod :D

For the most part the Pundit's dead on, however there were times when I thought Darren's vicious modding was warrented and even funny.

Maybe they should have kept him in a pit under their throne room and fed him trolls and dancing girls for amusement.

Quote from: David RI mean after what Dan posted, is there any reason to carry on with this topic?

Regards,
David R

There is never any reason to carry on with this topic.

Seriously.

Quote from: RPGPunditI've stopped talking about RPG.net so much in part because of what you say above, but also in part because I WON.

TheRPGsite's very existence proved that RPG.net's ultrafacism was not a "necessary" way to have "good conversation" without which there'd just be anarchy and nothing worth seeing; instead I proved that in fact, the ultra-high levels of moderation that RPG.net had at that time were actively working against the creation of interesting discussion.

So what did they do? They changed. Got rid of a couple of their mods, changed their policies, and basically greatly diminished their moderator abuse of power. In essence, and obviously never being able to bear the humiliation of stating it outright, they have ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT.

If you want to pretend that theRPGsite wasn't responsible for that, do as you like. But the timeline matches up pretty fucking well.

RPGPundit

You had nothing to do with it and you are fooling yourself if you think you did.  Users complained about the moderation and that caused the change, many of the peopel who complained don't even come here.

You are giving yourself credit for something you had nothing to do with.

Sometimes your Ego gets in the way with reality

Quote from: Mike S.You had nothing to do with it and you are fooling yourself if you think you did.  Users complained about the moderation and that caused the change, many of the peopel who complained don't even come here.

You are giving yourself credit for something you had nothing to do with.

Sometimes your Ego gets in the way with reality

Those people had been complaining for a long time now, and the mods response was always the same: "gee we'd like to stop being oppressive but you see, without heavy moderation this site would turn into anarchy. It just wouldn't work, and it'd be impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion on a site without heavy moderation".

And the modclique were able to keep right on feeding that line to people and clinging to their power until I came along and PROVED that you can make a forum work with near-zero moderation.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThose people had been complaining for a long time now, and the mods response was always the same: "gee we'd like to stop being oppressive but you see, without heavy moderation this site would turn into anarchy. It just wouldn't work, and it'd be impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion on a site without heavy moderation".

And the modclique were able to keep right on feeding that line to people and clinging to their power until I came along and PROVED that you can make a forum work with near-zero moderation.

RPGPundit

Sorry, no matter how much your ego would like to take credit for that, the changes came from many users complaining (most of who do not even come over here) about how strict things had become.

Sure, you started a forum with near-zero moderation but one has nothing to do with the other.

Quote from: RPGPunditI mean, call me old fashioned or something, but I only think its really cool to kick the crap out of someone with a baseball bat if said someone is able to fight back and you beat him anyways. On the other hand, if the person is tied up and helpless, and the law says that resisting the beating constitutes justification for said beating, its just pathetic bullying.

I love heaping insults on people here and elsewhere, but only because I'm man enough to do it to someone who's allowed to fight back.  Darren stopped being "amusing" the second that moderation policy allowed him to heap insult and abuse on people without the right to respond.

RPGPundit

I have to say Pundit, you talk a good game but I wonder if you would be brave enough to say the things you say on here and other message forums to people when you were face to face with them.

My guess is no.  You are a regular internet tough guy.

What I find interesting is that just about everyone here is considered a problem poster over there and yet, with just a touch of good natured name calling and fundamental disagreements on what an elephant is, we get along pretty well.

Quote from: David JohansenWhat I find interesting is that just about everyone here is considered a problem poster over there and yet, with just a touch of good natured name calling and fundamental disagreements on what an elephant is, we get along pretty well.

Yeah, that's the thing. Also, for all the rules on RPG.net that seems directed at being friendly to minorities, beliefs, etc... it really doesn't look like their place is friendlier to such people.

I also love the fact no dominating clique is developing on the RPGsite. And the fact I can call someone or be called a fuckhead and not get suspended usually defuses the situation more quickly.

On RPG.net, schemes to skirt around the rules seem to require epic effort and grudges are much more long lasting.

Here, I get the vibe of two guys kicking each other's ass and then drinking beer together once the dust settle. I like it better that way.

Quote from: Mike S.Sorry, no matter how much your ego would like to take credit for that, the changes came from many users complaining (most of who do not even come over here) about how strict things had become.

Sure, you started a forum with near-zero moderation but one has nothing to do with the other.

If you look at the RPG.net archives, you'll see this place has surpised and continues to surprise many people, including moderators. I am not saying Pundit's bombastic claims that he is "changing" RPG.net are true. But we are definitly proving that moderation is not mandatory to interesting discussions, nor to getting friendly and helpful with each others as fellow gamers.

While Pundit's claim go overboard, I think it would be a mistake to think they aren't looking around. In fact, I know they are looking around. And not just moderators from RPG.net but also mods and administrators from other key RPG foras.

It's a pretty cool community and has its little impact. And we've had great guests here too. From long time interenet users to industry people. Overall, this place is a success.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralNot to mention, Darren's mod style HAS changed.

No. Check out his "moderation" in the latest go round about Palladium.

Seanchai

Quote from: Mike S.I have to say Pundit, you talk a good game but I wonder if you would be brave enough to say the things you say on here and other message forums to people when you were face to face with them.

Dude, do you think the moderators would behave that way if they had to deal with the RPGnet members face-to-face? Their willingness to be witty when handling out their clever punishments springs from the one-sided, anonymus relationship they have with the others on the site.

Seanchai

Quote from: Consonant DudeIf you look at the RPG.net archives, you'll see this place has surpised and continues to surprise many people, including moderators. I am not saying Pundit's bombastic claims that he is "changing" RPG.net are true. But we are definitly proving that moderation is not mandatory to interesting discussions, nor to getting friendly and helpful with each others as fellow gamers.

I know your opinion of me is pretty low but I agree. I would qualify though, that the two are not the same. RPG.Net is a much more "safe" environment. RPGSite has more of a rough and tumble environment.  I would not paint them as equal. Saying that though, does not mean I think either site is horrible and unworkable, just different. For instance, I would not paint theRPGSite as welcoming but I would say it is MUCH more inclusive. The converse being ture for RPG.Net.

Quote from: Consonant DudeWhile Pundit's claim go overboard, I think it would be a mistake to think they aren't looking around. In fact, I know they are looking around. And not just moderators from RPG.net but also mods and administrators from other key RPG foras.

It's a pretty cool community and has its little impact. And we've had great guests here too. From long time interenet users to industry people. Overall, this place is a success.

I would agree. I would argue though, that the success is that of the community. Pundit is part of that community but often he portrays it as his and only his success. Heck, I was recently portrayed as being under the sway of Pundit and this site. I oppose most of how Pundit says things. Some of WHAT he says is in line with my beliefs just not how he says it.

Bill

Quote from: Consonant DudeIf you look at the RPG.net archives, you'll see this place has surpised and continues to surprise many people, including moderators. I am not saying Pundit's bombastic claims that he is "changing" RPG.net are true. But we are definitly proving that moderation is not mandatory to interesting discussions, nor to getting friendly and helpful with each others as fellow gamers.

Sure, moderation as mandatory was proved, that I will agree with.

Quote from: Consonant DudeWhile Pundit's claim go overboard, I think it would be a mistake to think they aren't looking around. In fact, I know they are looking around. And not just moderators from RPG.net but also mods and administrators from other key RPG foras.

It's a pretty cool community and has its little impact. And we've had great guests here too. From long time interenet users to industry people. Overall, this place is a success.

Ok, I would agree they are also looking around.   But Pundit's claim that he was the cause of the changes at rpg.net is bullshit.  You just look at the trouble tickets section and you will see all the complaints which caused the moderation to change gears, not the Pundit.

Quote from: SeanchaiDude, do you think the moderators would behave that way if they had to deal with the RPGnet members face-to-face? Their willingness to be witty when handling out their clever punishments springs from the one-sided, anonymus relationship they have with the others on the site.

Seanchai

Seanchai,

I don't think for a moment that The Pundit is the only internet tough guy out there.

I think the problem with the rpg.net moderators is that you have a group of people who in real life have never had power.

They are given power (Not real power, but internet power) and they go hog wild because they dont know what to do with themselves.

So they are abusive, which is probably why in real life they don't have power.  People see them as someone who would get abusive and no better then to give an abusive person power.

They should make me a moderator. I'll abuse the fuck out of it! Nobody else would ever be as bad.

Quote from: HinterWeltI know your opinion of me is pretty low but I agree.

?

Bill, I am at a loss to remember *once* having a strong disagreement with you, much less exchanging heated words. And thanks to your handle/company it's easier for me to remember you than other posters (so many guys with slightly similar names and I am really bad with names).

And it can't be your products that I dissed because I didn't try any.

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else, or am I forgetting something?

You just seem like a cool gamer that I don't know really well. My opinion of you isn't "low" at all (not that you should care anyway) :)

Bill, Mike

re: Pundit taking too much credit.

Yeah, he does that. I'm just glad this community is a little success and it is a sort of community accomplishment.

And again, I think this place is far from perfect. But it's been kind of good to me. I get answers to questions I have, scoops are reported and I see interesting discussions.

I use Story-Games as a complement for those games that aren't really popular around here as well as to read from another segment of interesting posters who would not feel at home here.

Overall, I still wish there was a true all-inclusive roleplaying website but as of yet, it's not happening.  So this will do :)

Quote from: Consonant Dude?

Bill, I am at a loss to remember *once* having a strong disagreement with you, much less exchanging heated words. And thanks to your handle/company it's easier for me to remember you than other posters (so many guys with slightly similar names and I am really bad with names).

And it can't be your products that I dissed because I didn't try any.

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else, or am I forgetting something?

You just seem like a cool gamer that I don't know really well. My opinion of you isn't "low" at all (not that you should care anyway) :)

CD,
So sorry. This just is not my week. I should go hibernate or something. I was confusing your posts with another posters (HMG).

Anyway, sincerest apologies but I do stand by what I said (which was agreeing with you). Essentially, I think we should always be introspective. Although I do not think this site has the leanings to a cliquish setup, I could see it become non-inclusive quite easily (us vs them). We get a little of that even now. No site is perfect but I feel RPGSite is pretty good. It is that way, IMHO, because of the posters and not A poster.

Again, sorry for my confusion.

Bill

Quote from: droogThey should make me a moderator. I'll abuse the fuck out of it! Nobody else would ever be as bad.

If they make me a Mod, I'd be one of those "good guy" prison guards, like Tom Hanks in Green Mile.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RIf they make me a Mod, I'd be one of those "good guy" prison guards, like Tom Hanks in Green Mile.

I know your sort! Crying a river while you put the black mask on!

Quote from: David RIf they make me a Mod, I'd be one of those "good guy" prison guards, like Tom Hanks in Green Mile.

I wanna be an Abu Ghraib type guard. You know, take cell phone pictures of all the stuff I made the prisoners do and show 'em to all my friends.

Seanchai

Quote from: droogThey should make me a moderator. I'll abuse the fuck out of it! Nobody else would ever be as bad.

As long as you're entertaining in how you go about it, and only abuse people we don't care about, knock yourself out. :)

!i!

Quote from: droogI know your sort! Crying a river while you put the black mask on!

That black mask is for purely recreational purposes.

Seanchai - When I take over this site I'll make you a Mod. You can handle the Help Desk section, renamed - Sweat Of My Balls.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HinterWeltAnyway, sincerest apologies

See now, this is something you don't get on a proscriptively-moderated site - genuine apologies. You get a lot of sucking up to mods, and a lot of "Um, I'm sorry... will you unban me now?" but few genuine apologies.

The interaction, the conversations just seem more genuine and with relatively less lasting rancour. Like when we started up here, there were a couple of people I pissed off, they let me know quite bluntly, I said, "what? shit, no, sorry!" and that was that. Never got that on the Big Purple, instead it's just long-held silent grudges which occasionally explode into bannable offence.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAs long as you're entertaining in how you go about it, and only abuse people we don't care about, knock yourself out. :)

!i!

so you mean basically how the moderation works on RPGnet anyway?  ;)

Quote from: J Arcaneso you mean basically how the moderation works on RPGnet anyway? ;)

Exactly!

!i!

And this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=377081) on rpg.net is an excellent example of how proscriptive moderation can actually allow nastiness to happen.

Mr. Analytical dearly needs someone to tell him to fuck off. Of course he used to post here (his sig on rpg.net notes that he doesn't post here), but probably didn't like the plain speech; over there they have to put up with him and even treat his blather seriously.

His posts display a deep contempt for people in general, and gamers specifically (what he truly feels none can know, I speak only of what he posts). But they're not allowed to return it in kind.

I dunno, sometimes I read people's posts and they have an angry wildness to them, and that's okay, it'll pass and doesn't really mean much - but sometimes I really get the feeling of malice and deep contempt. I don't like that shit. How can a person live their life like that? It's fucked.

Kyle, I don't see any point in dragging a thread by Mr. A into this. Clearly posters over there disagree with him and are saying so. I don't really see what this has to do with anything. Unless of course you're trying to illustrate that the Mods were out to get you while Mr.A and some others were allowed  (and continue) to post in a dickish manner.

Regards,
David R

The rpg.net mods can't be out to get me, they already got me:)

My point is that it illustrates how different moderation produces different behaviour.

Prescriptive moderation - "you should talk mostly about X, and if you dish out shit, be prepared to have it come back at you" - gives us a bit of rough and tumble but basic goodwill, people making genuine apologies to one another, issues being resolved, etc.

Proscriptive moderation - "don't say Y or Z" - gives us a calm surface with grovelling confessions and happy clappy smiling floating about like rubber duckies, and simmering contempt and lasting rancour beneath, ready to boil over at any moment.

I know which I prefer...

Quote from: HinterWeltI would agree. I would argue though, that the success is that of the community. Pundit is part of that community but often he portrays it as his and only his success. Heck, I was recently portrayed as being under the sway of Pundit and this site. I oppose most of how Pundit says things. Some of WHAT he says is in line with my beliefs just not how he says it.

Bill

For the record, I'm responsible for being the one who founded theRPGsite (in this version anyways), and who has established moderation policy.  The ideas behind it were mine and pretty well only mine.

But of course I could never have done it, like I could never have done ANY of the things I've done (the blog, the FtA! game, humiliating the Swine over and over again) without the fact that there are thousands of people who want the same things I do. In this case, who wanted a moderation-free RPG discussion group.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Mike S.Seanchai,

I don't think for a moment that The Pundit is the only internet tough guy out there.

I think the problem with the rpg.net moderators is that you have a group of people who in real life have never had power.

They are given power (Not real power, but internet power) and they go hog wild because they dont know what to do with themselves.

So they are abusive, which is probably why in real life they don't have power.  People see them as someone who would get abusive and no better then to give an abusive person power.

I think that's a surprisingly good assessment, Mike.  And yes, I'd imagine that the difference between them and I is that I have had power and responsibilities in the real world (and know how not to fuck it up), and I know enough to NOT USE power when it is given to me.

As for the rest of your comments on this thread, I'm just as honest in real life as I am on here.  What I've noticed is that other people are different online than in real life; both in how they choose to see me (there and here), and in how they behave in response to the things I say.

Levi pointed out, when he met me, that I was polite and a gentleman.  It amuses me that people are surprised that I would be that way (one can be gentlemanly in attitude and still be strong in words).  What hasn't been reviewed so much about that encounter is the fact that I made the exact same arguments in person with Levi that I did online; it was LEVI who said things in RL that he didn't dare to say online; like that there was "No way" that Darren should ever have been a mod, or admitting that the RPG.net moderation was basically a clique.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kyle AaronMy point is that it illustrates how different moderation produces different behaviour.

I don't see how with this example you have done that. You seem troubled by Mr. A's apparent disdain for gamers. It's not as though he shitting on everyone on that thread and they can't argue back in the same tone. They are.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: RPGPunditLevi pointed out, when he met me, that I was polite and a gentleman.  It amuses me that people are surprised that I would be that way (one can be gentlemanly in attitude and still be strong in words).

Up to a certain point. I gotta admit that while I often disagree with you, I find most of those disagreement harmless if annoying.

But some of the stuff you have said in the past went way beyond any "gentlemanly line", no matter what attitude you might take. I don't have specific examples but some of the words you employed to describe Borgstrom were downright vile, or so I thought at the time.

As well, calling repeatedly a whole segment of gamers "swine" is not gentlemanly. It's kind of childish. It's also pointless, unless you are provoked in some way.

BTW, where did you meet Levi, if I may ask? I've wondered about that for a while.

Quote from: David RI don't see how with this example you have done that. You seem troubled by Mr. A's apparent disdain for gamers. It's not as though he shitting on everyone on that thread and they can't argue back in the same tone. They are.

Regards,
David R

Bouncing back and forth in the same passive aggressive tones rarely leads to anything but further veiled hostility, and it is that very effect that over time burned me out on RPGnet quite a bit.

No one ever seems to have the stones to just flat out say, "You're full of shit, now stop being a dickhole or fuck the hell off."  Sometimes a little direct, blunt, confrontation is what is needed to snap everyone into focus and get things hashed out.  No, it's not necessarily going to make everyone suddenly and magically happy with everyone, but at least it gets everyone's cards on the table.

What do you think causes the most problems in a workplace, the guy who keeps all his complaints to himself until they bottle up and he gets more and more ill-tempered towards his job, or the guy who addresses each problem when it happens and tries to get some real discussion out of it?

Quote from: J ArcaneNo one ever seems to have the stones to just flat out say, "You're full of shit, now stop being a dickhole or fuck the hell off."  Sometimes a little direct, blunt, confrontation is what is needed to snap everyone into focus and get things hashed out.  No, it's not necessarily going to make everyone suddenly and magically happy with everyone, but at least it gets everyone's cards on the table.

There's something that should be kept in mind, however. What works for a smaller website like RPGsite might proved problematic as far as RPG.net is concerned.

Around here, people will go back and forth with "asshole", "shut the fuck up", etc... for a few posts. Over there, I'm not sure this wouldn't drag for several pages.

There's a lot more traffic, a lot more registrations for the purpose of trolling too. Many newbies to the internet (probably more prone to take this to heart and get their ego bruised)

I'm just speculating, mind you. I do not pretend to know what the place would be like at this point with similar moderation to the RPGsite. But my guess is that it wouldn't go as smoothly.

Quote from: J ArcaneBouncing back and forth in the same passive aggressive tones rarely leads to anything but further veiled hostility, and it is that very effect that over time burned me out on RPGnet quite a bit.

No one ever seems to have the stones to just flat out say, "You're full of shit, now stop being a dickhole or fuck the hell off."  Sometimes a little direct, blunt, confrontation is what is needed to snap everyone into focus and get things hashed out.  No, it's not necessarily going to make everyone suddenly and magically happy with everyone, but at least it gets everyone's cards on the table.

What do you think causes the most problems in a workplace, the guy who keeps all his complaints to himself until they bottle up and he gets more and more ill-tempered towards his job, or the guy who addresses each problem when it happens and tries to get some real discussion out of it?

I don't think comparing workplace and forum problems is entirely constructive, there's a whole different dynamic at play. I do agree there's a whole lot of passive aggresive bullshit going on RPGnet just not in the thread in Kyle's example.

Also I think the benefits of resorting to personal attacks is vastly overated and something I'm glad does not happen here as often as perceived. Every forum has it's own rules and although some here (and I'm including myself, ) don't think much of it's implementation, there are a lot of folks who have no problems with the rules or Mods at RPGnet.

In fact I'd go so far as to say, Mr. A getting dogpiled (the last time I checked) in a fairly civil manner (within the rules) is a good example of functional moderation and behaviour at RPGnet.

Regards,
David R

Well, I'm going to give everybody here a convenient target and say that I actually still visit RPGnet, and like it just fine.

It, much like a Windows based operating system, more-or-less works most of the time, which is good enough for me.

And I find that I have actually come to appreciate the way they mod in many cases - on a purely personal level, if not "the best way to run a site". ( I mean, shit, it's all about me, what to I care what any of the rest of the six billion people on this planet want?)

I appreciate their modding because I've developed the habit of, when somebody is being a rampaging dickhole like Mister A. in Kyle's example...

... I just click and 'walk' away.  When I ask "Is it REALLY worth it to get into a brouhaha over (insert subject here) with some anonymous fucktard on Teh INTArweB?" the answer, quite simply, is "no".

It's been much better for my blood pressure, my digestion, my spiritual state, and my wa.

Quote from: Kyle AaronAnd this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=377081) on rpg.net is an excellent example of how proscriptive moderation can actually allow nastiness to happen.

Mr. Analytical dearly needs someone to tell him to fuck off. Of course he used to post here (his sig on rpg.net notes that he doesn't post here), but probably didn't like the plain speech; over there they have to put up with him and even treat his blather seriously.

Shrug.

I read it as "Some guy acts like a dick, some other guys mock him, yet others take him too seriously".

In other news, water wet, sky blue.  This is no different from any other forum in this open sewer we call the Internet, including this one.  If I could be arsed I know I could find a dozen examples within the past month, but frankly, I can't.

The internet is like panning for gold in an open sewer.  You will occasionally find a nugget of great value, but you have to wade through an immense amount of shit to find it.

Quote from: Kyle AaronHis posts display a deep contempt for people in general, and gamers specifically (what he truly feels none can know, I speak only of what he posts). But they're not allowed to return it in kind.

Well, old son, I honestly don't think that "being allowed to return it in kind" is necessarily the right answer.  YMMthingy

Quote from: Kyle AaronI dunno, sometimes I read people's posts and they have an angry wildness to them, and that's okay, it'll pass and doesn't really mean much - but sometimes I really get the feeling of malice and deep contempt. I don't like that shit. How can a person live their life like that? It's fucked.

Yes, it is, just like when you meet people like that in real life.  They are often rather isolated so they use the Internet to find a place to display their contempt.

Some people are just shits.

Quote from: Consonant DudeBill, Mike

re: Pundit taking too much credit.

Yeah, he does that. I'm just glad this community is a little success and it is a sort of community accomplishment.

And again, I think this place is far from perfect. But it's been kind of good to me. I get answers to questions I have, scoops are reported and I see interesting discussions.

I use Story-Games as a complement for those games that aren't really popular around here as well as to read from another segment of interesting posters who would not feel at home here.

Overall, I still wish there was a true all-inclusive roleplaying website but as of yet, it's not happening.  So this will do :)

CD, for me it's just that when someone is full of shit I call them on it.  I am not going to stand by and just let them get away with it.

I am not going to stress myself out about it, but and the same time I am going to call bullshit.

Quote from: RPGPunditFor the record, I'm responsible for being the one who founded theRPGsite (in this version anyways), and who has established moderation policy.  The ideas behind it were mine and pretty well only mine.

More correctly, you took an already established forum that already had members and changed it and established the moderation policy.  It's not like you started from the ground and worked your way up.

Quote from: RPGPundithumiliating the Swine over and over again) without the fact that there are thousands of people who want the same things I do. In this case, who wanted a moderation-free RPG discussion group.

RPGPundit

You say you humiliate the Swine (of which I disagree with because there is no such thing as Swine).  But for the sake of argument the people you consider swine, you haven't done a damn thing.  The Forge is still around, Storygames is around (Note: I disagree with both The Forge's and Storygames point of view, but I understand they have the right to play how they like).  

If anything, the people you call swine have grown and expanded.  In that front, you could be considered a failure.

Quote from: Old GeezerWell, I'm going to give everybody here a convenient target and say that I actually still visit RPGnet, and like it just fine.

It, much like a Windows based operating system, more-or-less works most of the time, which is good enough for me.

 

Stop it! I'm not supposed to agree with you!

:mad: ;)

Quote from: shewolfStop it! I'm not supposed to agree with you!

:mad: ;)

But you can't help yourself because you are so intelligent and insightful that you  realize that I'm always right.

:eek:

*Cries into a Regan pillow and cuddles a GWB doll*











Ok, I don't really do that.

Quote from: RPGPunditI think that's a surprisingly good assessment, Mike.  And yes, I'd imagine that the difference between them and I is that I have had power and responsibilities in the real world (and know how not to fuck it up), and I know enough to NOT USE power when it is given to me.

I imagine that that is true (I will take your word as a gentleman on that) as am I.  I don't have to be in charge and have power, but when I am like you I do not abuse it.  I have been told that I handle being in charge appropriately.

Quote from: RPGPunditAs for the rest of your comments on this thread, I'm just as honest in real life as I am on here.  What I've noticed is that other people are different online than in real life; both in how they choose to see me (there and here), and in how they behave in response to the things I say.

You may still say the things, but I am pretty sure you wouldn't say them as bluntly without the protection of the internet.  As I said before, there are plenty of people like that.

Quote from: RPGPunditLevi pointed out, when he met me, that I was polite and a gentleman.  It amuses me that people are surprised that I would be that way (one can be gentlemanly in attitude and still be strong in words).  What hasn't been reviewed so much about that encounter is the fact that I made the exact same arguments in person with Levi that I did online; it was LEVI who said things in RL that he didn't dare to say online; like that there was "No way" that Darren should ever have been a mod, or admitting that the RPG.net moderation was basically a clique.

RPGPundit

Of course when things are said in person and put online, things get lost in the translation (as do they when one person tells someone something and then tha person tells someone else).   So this part doesn't surprise me.

I just don't think you would be as rabid in person as you are online, even if you still say the same things in person that you say online.

Quote from: shewolf:eek:

*Cries into a Regan pillow and cuddles a GWB doll*


Ok, I don't really do that.

Don't lie to us.  We know you do!  ;)

Quote from: shewolf:eek:

*Cries into a Regan pillow and cuddles a GWB doll*

Ok, I don't really do that.

Pillow?

Do they make those in Condoleeza Rice style as well?


-Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarPillow?

Do they make those Condi Rice as well?

And are they machine washable?

!i!

Quote from: Mike S.Don't lie to us.  We know you do!  ;)

I don't.
 Only because I don't have the skill to make them.:haw:

I George W. doll would be pretty funny. I think I'd consider buying something like a George W. action figure (with flight suit action), and maybe some democrat partisans and actually have them fight.

I can see it now: "Have them battle at your kitchen table, since they're clearly not going to battle in congress!" Basically, I don't reserve my political distaste for just the republicans, since I know their opposition has been worthless.

But, hey! I'd also consider buying Mod plushies! They'd be like black and white throw pillows! And, you know, with my black and white avatar, you'd think I'd be first in line to be a mod since I've got the color scheme down but they keep picking others over me. :what:

Quote from: RPGPunditI've stopped talking about RPG.net so much in part because of what you say above, but also in part because I WON.

TheRPGsite's very existence proved that RPG.net's ultrafacism was not a "necessary" way to have "good conversation" without which there'd just be anarchy and nothing worth seeing; instead I proved that in fact, the ultra-high levels of moderation that RPG.net had at that time were actively working against the creation of interesting discussion.

So what did they do? They changed. Got rid of a couple of their mods, changed their policies, and basically greatly diminished their moderator abuse of power. In essence, and obviously never being able to bear the humiliation of stating it outright, they have ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT.

If you want to pretend that theRPGsite wasn't responsible for that, do as you like. But the timeline matches up pretty fucking well.

RPGPundit

Yup; no idea if TheRPGSite influenced their decision, but the distrust for forum communities to manage themselves without the mod equivalent of a nanny state has been proven wrong, wrong, wrong. Even RPGNet got a lot better after they relaxed the enforcement of their rules.

Quote from: Thanatos02I George W. doll would be pretty funny. I think I'd consider buying something like a George W. action figure (with flight suit action), and maybe some democrat partisans and actually have them fight.

I couldnt have a George W doll, I would be too tempted to rip its head off.

President Bush is an idiot.  Here is proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbPVrb5KM

Mike S ?

 The topic was rpg .net ....the pillow stuff was just a side-joke

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd are they machine washable?

!i!

The implications of the statement just hit me.

I think it'd be fun to have a Politician Action Figure Line, sorta a hybrid of the GI Joe and He-Man line.

The Dems could have the Congress Battle Fortress, complete with trap door rotunda and Filibuster Strike Wagon!  Ted-Dor and Battle Damage Obama man the Turbo Catapults!

But here comes Blaster Dick Cheney, complete with interchangable weapon arm, riding on top of the Patriot Action Van!  Watch it fold out to let GWB to fly the Rightwing Jet into the fray!

Here comes Lieber-Man, using the Independent Atom Smasher(really floats in tub!)!  But who will he side with?

Collect 'em all at a toy store near you (WARNING:  Tiny Elf Ron Paul figure may contain small pieces).

(Hey, in my head, it looks just like an early 80s toy commercial).

Lieber-Man. :D

Priceless.  I love it.

You left out "The Gore"

And what is Bill Clinton's special abil....oh wait...nevermind...

The Bob Dole Action figure - only one arm moves!

Ohhh...The Hillary Doll could have button that gives you that cackle...and a karate chop action but only to the back of Bill's head...

GWB could have different faces so his..umm..detractors?...could morph him between Hitler and a Chimp...

Quote from: James J SkachGWB could have different faces so his..umm..detractors?...could morph him between Hitler and a Chimp...

Or so his promoters can trot him out on a leash in front of different constituencies. A different face for every occasion and crowd. :)

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOr so his promoters can trot him out on a leash in front of different constituencies. A different face for every occasion and crowd. :)

!i!

Well that works for every politician I've ever seen, heard, etc.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOr so his promoters can trot him out on a leash in front of different constituencies. A different face for every occasion and crowd. :)

!i!

Like Man-E Faces, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-E-Faces) from He-Man.

Quote from: Kyle AaronHe's building up brownie points with the mods. That was the whole purpose of the thread, why else would he post about being banned and then saying he deserved it? And from Dan's words, we see that he continued in the confessional/repentance vein in private emails, too. From his confession and repentance, he was allowed a generous remittance of five hours of his sentence. The mods like it when you confess and repent, it reinforces their sense that the whole mod structure and rules and so on are necessary and good.

If he builds up enough brownie points, he can even get permabanned and then come back as a mod :D

Kyle,

You may have misread what I said in my post, so please allow me to clarify. Yes, HMG admitted that he deserved a suspension. However, he disagreed with the length of the suspension, and explained why in perfectly reasonable terms. Upon reflection, I realized that even if my interpretation of the post that had previously earned him a warning was correct, his latest infraction would have only warranted a 2-day ban, not a 3-day ban. Unfortunately, I arrived at this conclusion too late to take off an entire day from his suspension.

In short, I don't care how much remorse he expressed -- if he'd deserved the suspension I'd originally given him, that suspension would have stuck. I revoked the suspension when I did not because he was sorry for the infraction, but because he was right that the penalty had been too severe.

On the other hand, you may have understood my original post perfectly well and are suggesting that my motivations are other than what I've stated. Since there is no way to prove either of us right or wrong on the subject, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Taking Dan's posts at face value... and I have every reason to do so... he does come across as the most professional of the Moderators.  Not a hard thing to do, I know, but still a complimentary observation.

Sure, it's nice to have him come and make an effort to communicate clearly, but  his language and thinking is so deeply steeped in that patronizing moderator culture that it's all for moot.  I mean he's actually discussing the various "legal" reasons why the suspension should have been 2 days instead of 3.  To me, it's like arguing over how many mea culpas you have to say for which sin.  That's great for Catholics but thankfully has nothing to do with me.

(and sorry for the 3rd person, Dan, if you're still reading this.)

Presuming the Mods have a fairly clear list of rules to follow, it IS professional and expected to actually obey those rules when making a call.  I can't fault him for that, regardless of what I actually think of those rules.

Quote from: Kyle AaronAnd this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=377081) on rpg.net is an excellent example of how proscriptive moderation can actually allow nastiness to happen.

Mr. Analytical dearly needs someone to tell him to fuck off. Of course he used to post here (his sig on rpg.net notes that he doesn't post here), but probably didn't like the plain speech; over there they have to put up with him and even treat his blather seriously.

His posts display a deep contempt for people in general, and gamers specifically (what he truly feels none can know, I speak only of what he posts). But they're not allowed to return it in kind.

I dunno, sometimes I read people's posts and they have an angry wildness to them, and that's okay, it'll pass and doesn't really mean much - but sometimes I really get the feeling of malice and deep contempt. I don't like that shit. How can a person live their life like that? It's fucked.

Harassing him off the site wasn't enough for you?  Now you need to read his posts elsewhere and criticise them?

Anyway, I had dinner with him Tuesday, I didn't notice him living in malice and contempt, he's quite a cheery person actually.

For what it's worth, I agree with his analysis, so please feel free to take me up on any points you take issue with.  On this he speaks for me, and I'm happy (in the roleplaying forum) to argue those points (when I have time obviously, I only get here occasionally these days sadly).

On an unrelated note, Pundy is right in this, he does here say stuff to folk's faces and if you talk back there's no penalty for doing so other than any shit he may throw back at you in turn.  It's why I post here in a nutshell, no other forum today allows that.

Quote from: SpikeTaking Dan's posts at face value... and I have every reason to do so... he does come across as the most professional of the Moderators.  Not a hard thing to do, I know, but still a complimentary observation.

If Dan told me the sky had turned green I'd take it at face value, he's a straight guy in my experience.

Quote from: BalbinusIf Dan told me the sky had turned green I'd take it at face value, he's a straight guy in my experience.

I've seen a "Green sky" - usually around sunset or sunrise when you can see all sorts of colors depending on what mood the great maker is in that day.

Sunrises, dancing, romance, Sunsets, love of friends and family,  music and gaming - the stuff that keeps us going.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarI've seen a "Green sky" - usually around sunset or sunrise when you can see all sorts of colors depending on what mood the great maker is in that day.

Sunrises, dancing, romance, Sunsets, love of friends and family,  music and gaming - the stuff that keeps us going.


- Ed C.

Lucky you, that sounds cool.

And as for your second paragraph, I wholly agree.  The meaning of life, such as there is one, is in the details.

Dan's OK, but he's got poor taste in his online friends.

Quote from: SpikePresuming the Mods have a fairly clear list of rules to follow, it IS professional and expected to actually obey those rules when making a call.  I can't fault him for that, regardless of what I actually think of those rules.

Which seems to be the crux of TBP's moderation problems. Do they have rules to follow? Do they follow them? Are they good rules?

It seems to be that they want to be PsiCops, handing down Solomon-esque judgements with snappy patter - "I perceive that you were about the break the rules, turd face! You might want to step back with the audience while I cut your baby in half!"

Seanchai

Quote from: BalbinusFor what it's worth, I agree with his analysis, so please feel free to take me up on any points you take issue with.  On this he speaks for me, and I'm happy (in the roleplaying forum) to argue those points (when I have time obviously, I only get here occasionally these days sadly).

It's a pity you don't visit as often as you used to. I just caught up with the thread in question and must say, I agree a lot with what C.Kubasik and you have posted....but this could just be the result of my general disconnect with internet rpg culture.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RIt's a pity you don't visit as often as you used to. I just caught up with the thread in question and must say, I agree a lot with what C.Kubasik and you have posted....but this could just be the result of my general disconnect with internet rpg culture.

Regards,
David R

Work's killing me, long hours, if that changes I'll be back more often.

Quote from: BalbinusHarassing him off the site wasn't enough for you?  Now you need to read his posts elsewhere and criticise them?

How am I harassing him? I'm commenting in a public forum on his posts in a public forum. That's harassment? Mate, have you been reading too much Tangency again?

Quote from: BalbinusAnyway, I had dinner with him Tuesday, I didn't notice him living in malice and contempt, he's quite a cheery person actually.

That's lovely to hear. I made no comment on what he's actually like. I said, "His posts display..." For all I know he spends every Saturday donating blood to haemophiliac Sudanese orphans and every Sunday after a cup of tea to revive himself from the donation he pops up with his clown act to cheer them up in their hospital beds.

But his posts are not terribly friendly towards gamers.