[News] Mel Gibson's Apocalypto butchers Maya culture

hgjs · December 09, 2006, 04:05:04 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditThe Maya destroyed themselves. They weren't the "noble savage" that certain groups tried in the past to make them out to be.

Now the Aztecs, those guys were destroyed by the white man.

RPGPundit

Not undeservedly. Human sacrificing savages.

Dr Rotwang! · December 09, 2006, 04:27:37 PM

Quote from: hgjsNot undeservedly. Human sacrificing savages.

*shrug* They were what they were. I dunno they really deserved what they got, though.

And don't tell me the Spanish were being all noble 'n' stuff when they, you know, burned the huey tlatoani's (Emperor's) feet to get his gold.

That and, you know, the part where they burned most of their history texts and stuff.

Here's th' thing: humans can be assholes. We're built for it. It's inescapable. We can try our best, and most of us succeed; but there's always gonna be the potential to be a giant, raging dick, and some folks (or societies) will totally gonna give in to it.

Sad. True.

JongWK · December 09, 2006, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditThe Maya destroyed themselves. They weren't the "noble savage" that certain groups tried in the past to make them out to be.

I never bought the "noble savage" PR about the Maya, though they can certainly look far more appealing to the popular eye than the Aztecs.

What I'm not liking about Apocalypto is the apparent undercurrent of "they deserved it, and salvation (TM) only came with the most Catholic Spanish conquerors" in it. Laugh if you want about that, but Mel Gibson's background gives me enough reasons to be suspicious.

Zalmoxis · December 09, 2006, 05:06:10 PM

I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment on the role of the Catholics in it, though from what I've read, as far as the story's protagonist is concerned, the Spanish arrived at just the right time to indirectly save his ass. What I hope the movie does accomplish is once and for all destroying this bipolar notion we have of native peoples as either 1. savages worth destroying or 2. noble, peaceful people living in harmony. The truth is, they were simply out-maneuvered, couldn't unite to fight the common enemy, and were decimated by disease and a determined enemy.

Sosthenes · December 09, 2006, 05:20:11 PM

Hey, without the catholics there wouldn't be hot Latinas! And as we all know, history is written by those wo want to impress women.

As long as developing the subtext doesn't devour too many screen minutes, I really don't care. Gimme jungles, pyramids, strange attires and some neat combat scenes. I'm really not afraid that I'm gonna ask people whether they accept Jesus as their own personal savior after seeing the movie.
(They definitely _should_ have some decent action. Scary pierced girls don't do it for me.)

David R · December 09, 2006, 05:31:27 PM

Gibson makes good bloody propaganda. I can safely say the movie's politics much like it's director will be dodgy, but I'm sure he will give audiences their money's worth in terms of spectacle - this last I mean in a good way, about the only positive thing I can say about Mel.

Regards,
David R

Sosthenes · December 09, 2006, 06:11:08 PM

Quote from: David RGibson makes good bloody propaganda.

Imagine, for a minute, a Gibson/Milius movie.

David R · December 09, 2006, 07:16:06 PM

Quote from: SosthenesImagine, for a minute, a Gibson/Milius movie.

All I can say is - thank the gods Klaus Kinski is no longer with us. Adding him as the main lead would trigger an apocalypse...

Regards,
David R

Casey777 · December 09, 2006, 07:18:55 PM

(shrugs) Gibson's the *last* director I'd turn to for historical accuracy and films are films, not history books*. A bloody action film that looks great on the big screen? Sure. We're talking about the end of a decentralized culture to show that we today face a similar path. Heavy handed perhaps, but films tend to be so, esp. big/event ones.

This is as close to Tekumel: The Movie as there ever will be. :pundit: If nothing else use the pics and premise for your own research, reading, gaming. :cool:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/apocalypto/
alternate site for the trailers & clips
Wallpapers
Images 1
Images 2
Set pics

* my criteria for a film is whether or not it works *as a film*, not how well it adapts a book or portrays something; those are good things to strive towards but secondary

Casey777 · December 09, 2006, 07:21:20 PM

Quote from: David RAll I can say is - thank the gods Klaus Kinski is no longer with us. Adding him as the main lead would trigger an apocalypse...

(brain explodey) ow that hurts just to read, and yet some part of me would want to see that movie.

(then add Werner Herzog and watch the universe end)

Dominus Nox · December 09, 2006, 09:41:24 PM

So now mexicans can cry and scream about how much of a "RACIST!!!" mell gibson is. I'll bet he cries all the way to the bank.

RPGPundit · December 09, 2006, 10:12:28 PM

Quote from: hgjsNot undeservedly. Human sacrificing savages.

Well, the culture of the Conquistadores wasn't precisely angelic either. They'd gone to the new world because they were fresh out of muslims to slaughter and jews to expel; and were just as bloodthirsty as the Aztecs; they just didn't murder their victims on the temple steps.. but they were just as convinced that they were doing god's work by killing.

I have no illusions about either group.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · December 09, 2006, 10:18:17 PM

Quote from: Dominus NoxSo now mexicans can cry and scream about how much of a "RACIST!!!" mell gibson is. I'll bet he cries all the way to the bank.

In this case, I suspect the Mexicans will too, what with all the tourist dollars this will bring into the Yucatan region from people interested in checking out the real deal.

RPGPundit

Dominus Nox · December 09, 2006, 10:18:51 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditWell, the culture of the Conquistadores wasn't precisely angelic either. They'd gone to the new world because they were fresh out of muslims to slaughter and jews to expel; and were just as bloodthirsty as the Aztecs; they just didn't murder their victims on the temple steps.. but they were just as convinced that they were doing god's work by killing.

I have no illusions about either group.

RPGPundit

You got it, pundy. The spanish Conquistadors were not really explorers or brave adventurers, they were theives looking for people to killor enslave, and shit to steal, plane and simple.

Yeah, yeah yeah, I know my ancestors screwed the amerinds over, it was the zeitsmode of the time. Some cultures have advanced since then, others haven't.

RPGPundit · December 10, 2006, 01:07:48 AM

Quote from: Dominus NoxYou got it, pundy. The spanish Conquistadors were not really explorers or brave adventurers, they were theives looking for people to killor enslave, and shit to steal, plane and simple.

Yeah, yeah yeah, I know my ancestors screwed the amerinds over, it was the zeitsmode of the time. Some cultures have advanced since then, others haven't.

Yes, that's true.

The Mexicans have stopped sacrificing people to the sun; while we've stopped invading other nations, murdering their citizens and trying to convert them, by force if necessary, to our way of thinking while installing puppet rulers...oh wait...

RPGPundit