Quote from: Abyssal MawActually I'm not trying to convince you guys to do anything. I'm trying (possibly in vain) to explain why and how D&D manages to maintain it's position year after year, why people choose it, what the benefit is when you have people.. all of that stuff.

Seriously, from one guy who gets misunderstood a lot to another, you're not succeeding, because what you're doing is alienating people. [Trust me, I have experience!] You may not realize it, but when you say, "My game wins," you anger the people who don't play your game, or who don't view it as a competition. If you want to explain the popularity of D&D, explain the popularity of D&D: don't say it "wins," which doesn't mean that at all.

You made a post here earlier in which you explained, basically, that you were just kind of being a dick for fun, and I get that, but if you really want to be understood, you've got to put that away, because you're operating at cross-purposes.

Quote from: StuartI think AM signed away his objectivity when he signed that NDA.

I can almost give you the date when I signed my objectivity away. It was just before the release of D&D3 in 2000. I was a playtester for Torg 2. (the Kansas Jim version that was due to come out in 2000). The other playtesters (including the GM) would constantly flake on me, week after week after week.

So finally, after yet another session was last-minute canceled by the GM I had just picked up the Planescape boxed set as a cheapie (remember this is the dying days of AD&D2e about to be canceled) and said "if nobody shows up I'm going to run AD&D instead". I said it as like.. a joke.

I had the neighbor, his wife, and her three friends there within the hour. I was blown away.


I've only been under an NDA for like.. less than a year.

Quote from: gleichmanThere is no doubt that effective support requires a certain critical mass to be effect. For example, r.g.f.a is now ineffective.

Is support necessary? I roleplayed for a long, long time without any support beyond the books. After that, I was lucky enough to be able to call or e-mail the developers and ask, "What the fuck?" but it didn't make the game suddenly possible to play, it just got me more canon answers to my questions. And honestly, I spent a lot of years at a community targeted toward the game I played, and received no real benefit beyond nice conversation with like-minded people.

I understand some people value support, and a community, but I have players, and I have a GM, and I rarely get much of use from the community that I couldn't have gotten from them, so can I win, too, on the basis that my victory conditions are different?

I have community.  We're centered around roleplaying.  It's pretty cool.

Quote from: EngineSeriously, from one guy who gets misunderstood a lot to another, you're not succeeding, because what you're doing is alienating people. [Trust me, I have experience!] You may not realize it, but when you say, "My game wins," you anger the people who don't play your game, or who don't view it as a competition. If you want to explain the popularity of D&D, explain the popularity of D&D: don't say it "wins," which doesn't mean that at all.

You made a post here earlier in which you explained, basically, that you were just kind of being a dick for fun, and I get that, but if you really want to be understood, you've got to put that away, because you're operating at cross-purposes.

Probably true. I have been frustrated with TheRPGSite lately and I miss Settembrini.

Quote from: Abyssal MawActually I'm not trying to convince you guys to do anything. I'm trying (possibly in vain) to explain why and how D&D manages to maintain it's position year after year, why people choose it, what the benefit is when you have people.. all of that stuff. Those things generally shrugged off here, but the take-away for someone like you is this: YOU COULD BE DOING THIS YOURSELF. You could be growing your business. You could be getting fans by  promotion through community efforts rather than "hey here's my cool game". Instead we get caught up in a never ending fucking discussion of "WHY OF WHY  does my favorite RPG languish in obscurity when it is soooooo superior. ??"

I think I understand where I got lost. This is kind of "Well Duh?!". I could see how it could be frustrating if you see many people disagreeing with the stance that community makes a game successful. I will not argue.

In fact, I will add a point that may strike you as disagreeable but I will go as far as to say that a game could be total crap but if it has a well built community it will continue to thrive. Now, don't freak, I am NOT saying DND is crap, merely that even if it was the same as all other games, it would still be ahead of the curve due to its huge community.

Now, if I only had some community building skills.

Quote from: Abyssal MawFan clubs, meetups, content creation directories .. all of that stuff is not exclusive to D&D-- the entire point of community is not exclusive to D&D. Neither is gameplay talking tactics and builds.. and pure content. But that shit is often shamed here, and I find it unfortunate. And yet we have these discussions constantly about "hey what do you do to promote, how far do you have to go to get people to game with you" and I have to just laugh.

Usually I just let them float on by.

Interesting question comes to mind. If a game is not tactical, do you think it would affect its chances of success? I mean, less tactical than DND so as to hamper those discussions about builds.

Bill

Quote from: Abyssal MawI miss Settembrini.

Aim better, then.

Quote from: Abyssal MawI have been frustrated with TheRPGSite lately and I miss Settembrini.

I can understand that you are frustrated with TheRPGSITE, but you really miss Settembrini?

I think the site is a lot better without his baseless rants, ego stroking and general talking out of his ass.

Quote from: EngineIs support necessary?

For me? No.

For the typical buyer of rpgs, of course. This is why D&D is at the top of the market.

Quote from: Abyssal MawI have been frustrated with TheRPGSite lately and I miss Settembrini.

Let it all out, mate. Tell us about it. We're here for you.

Quote from: Abyssal MawProbably true. I have been frustrated with TheRPGSite lately and I miss Settembrini.

Story Games has tons of people I like talking with.  I win!

Quote from: gleichmanFor the typical buyer of rpgs, of course. This is why D&D is at the top of the market.

So "support," which means, "community," is why D&D is the best-selling roleplaying game right now?

Quote from: EngineSo "support," which means, "community," is why D&D is the best-selling roleplaying game right now?

IMO, it's why it's always been at the top or near top of the market.

However support means more than community, community is only part of it. The other half is the amount of published material for the game and settings for the game.

It certainly wasn't because it was the best game. Only Pundit would claim something stupid like that.

Quote from: gleichman

Quote from: EngineIs support necessary?

For me? No.

For the typical buyer of rpgs, of course. This is why D&D is at the top of the market.

Nonsense.   What, do you think you can deny the objective truth?!?  

Gleichman -- you need that support.  That is an objective fact.  There is no wishy-washy subjective "Oh, I'm a unique snowflake and the objective facts don't apply to me."  You can try to deny reality, but then you just lose!!  

:rolleyes:

Quote from: jhkimGleichman -- you need that support.  That is an objective fact.

Skipping the snark (directed more AM than myself I hope), there is little doubt that I could in fact use the support.

During the rather short period that Age of Heroes was online, I had people writing campaign supplements, asking questions, and the like. All that was useful as it allow me to correct errors in the rules and expanded the game in different directions than I would take myself. It wasn't much, but it was more than what I had done alone.

By removing it I've turned my back on that. By the type of game it is (i.e. overly complex tactical crap), I've rejected any large scale application of those advantages out of the gate. Those are serious costs.

Costs I'm willing to bear in order to play the game I want, but costs even so.

Even with HERO I pay a similar price as I've modified the standards for construction greatly (and the rules slightly), making it effectively impossible for me to interact with the wider HERO community. I also hate Long with a passion, and that doesn't help either.

So special snowflake I am. And I'm happier that way than not. But I well know the price I paid for it.