I just got a warning from a moderator on the Citizens of the Imperium message board for a supposed personal attack (well he said it was "close to a personal attack") on a guy who made the statement, among others that "those who see the flaws in MGT aren't playing it".
I can't stand it when some jackass makes statements like this. How the hell would he know whether ALL the people who see flaws in MGT aren't playing it? So...I asked him if he had done research to back that up, or if it was just him and his friends who felt that way.
And that supposedly constitutes something close to a personal attack. That is complete bullshit.
Every game has flaws. Every one. Not a game made that doesn't. I can think of two issues I have with MGT (Mongoose Traveller, I should probably explain) right off the bat...but I still play it!
And their beloved Classic Traveller had so many flaws they had to do a new edition of it only three years after it was originally released. Yep. the version of classic Traveller found in those big reprint books is the REVISED version.
Bah...I need sleep.
Allen
You should do a reverse IP lookup, find his real name, look him up in the phonebook, drive all night to reach his house (no toilet breaks, just wear nappies like that astronaut woman did), kick his door in, tie him up, torture his cat to death in front of him, put your nappy on his head, beat him to death with a spanner, and then burn his house down.
Or, you know, you could just say, "fuck it" and play Doom for a little bit until you calm down.
Allensh: Go back to 4chan and RAGE!
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;231835You should do a reverse IP lookup, find his real name, look him up in the phonebook, drive all night to reach his house (no toilet breaks, just wear nappies like that astronaut woman did), kick his door in, tie him up, torture his cat to death in front of him, put your nappy on his head, beat him to death with a spanner, and then burn his house down.
Or, you know, you could just say, "fuck it" and play Doom for a little bit until you calm down.
I don't own Doom...but I could play Smackdown vs. Raw to let off steam.
Even if I were inclined to do all that stuff...he ain't worth it.
Allen
Oh well, here is a list of free computer games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_games), some of them involve blowing shit up, which is always fun.
Nice sig, by the way.
Quote from: Allensh;231833Every game has flaws. Every one. Not a game made that doesn't.
Perhaps more significantly, since "flaw" implies an objective error, there are inevitably going to be things some people like about a game, and which some people don't, and those things aren't necessarily going to have anything to do with whether or not the player plays the game.
Example: in Shadowrun, superchargers [on vehicles] reduce the vehicle's fuel economy, which isn't what happens in real life. This may not bother some people, but both a non-gamer reading the book and a gamer playing the game might be bothered by this "flaw." So at least you can take solace from the fact that he's simply wrong as hell.
...and people wonder why I never joined CotI 4 years ago.....
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;231913...and people wonder why I never joined CotI 4 years ago.....
- Ed C.
I joined it back when I was a playtester on T20. I have been on and off the Traveller mailing list for years for much the same reason...and often due to the same person!
Its funny...I go here, or The Other Place, or even on EN World, and I see people saying how much they like the new version of Traveller. Its only on what is supposedly the biggest Traveller message board around, where I see a small dedicated cadre of people slamming the game.
Hey...like it, play it. Don't like it, don't play it. whatever.
Allen
Quote from: Allensh;231973Hey...like it, play it. Don't like it, don't play it. whatever.
Allen
Dude, that's what I keep sayin'.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;232028Dude, that's what I keep sayin'.
Your moderate attitude and enlightened apathy is
ruining the internet!!!
Well I had to self bann myself from being a supermod from CotI due to Hunters AWOL actions.
Quote from: Roger Calver;232189Well I had to self bann myself from being a supermod from CotI due to Hunters AWOL actions.
I didn't know you were or had been a mod over there, Roger. You still around? I'm in the Moot, but I mainly lurk for ideas.
Im still a mod but keep myself off the board now due to a few different reasons.
I stopped frequenting CotI after I got a Mod warning for making a Personal Attack against Kofi Annan in the Political Pulpit, which boggles my mind because:
A) How can you make a Personal Attack against a public figure?
B) How can you make a Personal Attack against someone who is not even a member of the forum?
Wow...but what if he was? How cool would it be if the former Secretary General of the UN played Traveller and was a member of CotI?
Well...okay...maybe not cool, but...interesting....
Your not the first whos been warned for things like this on CotI.
The rules were written by one of the other mods and well just didnt work, I had to unban someone due to a bad call one of the others made, it was that decision that made me quit.
Quote from: Allensh;231973Hey...like it, play it. Don't like it, don't play it. whatever.
Allen
Sadly the demographics of the hobby make that unrealistic for some values of "it".
Quote from: StormBringer;232118Your moderate attitude and enlightened apathy is ruining the internet!!!
Once my pogrom of annihilation is complete, I will implement Phase II of the operation: PUT LOTS OF PORN ON THE INTERN-
-- hey, wait.
Quote from: Roger Calver;232589Your not the first whos been warned for things like this on CotI.
The rules were written by one of the other mods and well just didnt work, I had to unban someone due to a bad call one of the others made, it was that decision that made me quit.
Damn, I didn't know that but I can understand it.
I hope that better days have followed you absenting yourself, though.
I dont know whats happening over on CotI now as a dont visit it anymore.
This feels strange for me to be saying this but after talking to a friend last night about Traveller Ive came to the conclusion that Im tired of it all.
As any one who has worked on Traveller products will know the whole thing is a nightmare, the OTU is just a minefield with all of the "canon" crap and conlicting information that it contains, now as I work for Avenger Enterprises losing interest in Traveller is a problem as that what we do make Traveller products.
Im going to have to think hard about this one as at the moment I coulndt be anymore sick of the whole OTU shebang.
Rog.
Quote from: Roger Calver;232846I dont know whats happening over on CotI now as a dont visit it anymore.
No, no, I meant I was hoping for better days for you. I can't say that I care about CotI. :)
Thanks, yeah CotI's off my radar from now on.
Quote from: Roger Calver;232850This feels strange for me to be saying this but after talking to a friend last night about Traveller Ive came to the conclusion that Im tired of it all.
As any one who has worked on Traveller products will know the whole thing is a nightmare, the OTU is just a minefield with all of the "canon" crap and conlicting information that it contains, now as I work for Avenger Enterprises losing interest in Traveller is a problem as that what we do make Traveller products.
Im going to have to think hard about this one as at the moment I coulndt be anymore sick of the whole OTU shebang.
Rog.
Wow...
This really saddens me as quite frankly, Avenger's crew are among the "good guys" of Traveller fandom on the Internet, and the products of I have seen from them (admittedly not a lot because my money has been going to print products from a FLGS lately) has been excellent.
See, I like the OTU. I think its a great setting...in its original form. Some of the stuff added later...not so good. That's why I liked MJD's Spinward Marches book..it had a 'back-to-basics' feel. It is, unfortunatley, some (by no means all) of the Traveller "fans" on the net that bug me. They act quite literally like they have some ownership share in Traveller or something.
As for "canon"...I hate that term. The Traveller books are not religious texts. And you're right...it does contradict itself at times (sorta like Doctor Who sometimes does
). I can see where that can be a pain to deal with.
There's new blood being brought in to the Traveller part of the hobby by Mongoose's new version. Those folks don't know about "canon"...and they might not care if they did. Maybe they'll squeeze out some of these "canonistas" eventually. In any event...know that this fan appreciates the stuff you folks have done.
Allen
You get sick of anything if you deal with it for hours of every day for years on end. Its actual merits or flaws have nothing to do with it.
Re: Canon
For me, the Internet was the worst thing ever for Glorantha and the Third Imperium.* Well, I've largely managed to avoid any discussion of Traveller and the Third Imperium online (I only joined CotI a year and a half ago to dig up contact info for a personal project of mine), but Glorantha almost got spoiled for me by reading how rigidly some people took their personal development of a published game setting.
Some things are best left to develop in isolated little pockets. Game worlds are such things. House rules are such things. Getting a couple hundred people together to discuss them and reach a consensus is a bad thing.
!i!
[*Let me add Tékumel to that list, though not to such a degree.]
The main flaw for me in MongTrav was the bloody sticker price. I'm sure spinachcat is gonna throw a bloody fit over it, but $40 for a fuck 188-page B&W book is too fucking much money. It seems like a decent revamp, I thought the damage track thing on the charsheet was kinda clever, but I couldn't justify that kind of cash for what little I would be getting when I had a perfectly good LBB reprint sitting at home.
So I bought Dark Heresy instead. :D
Also, canon and canonistas are fucking douchebags, and should always, always, always be totally disregarded because none of them are interested in fun.
Quote from: J Arcane;234111The main flaw for me in MongTrav was the bloody sticker price. I'm sure spinachcat is gonna throw a bloody fit over it, but $40 for a fuck 188-page B&W book is too fucking much money. It seems like a decent revamp, I thought the damage track thing on the charsheet was kinda clever, but I couldn't justify that kind of cash for what little I would be getting when I had a perfectly good LBB reprint sitting at home.
So I bought Dark Heresy instead. :D
Also, canon and canonistas are fucking douchebags, and should always, always, always be totally disregarded because none of them are interested in fun.
Right again.
I'm going in for a head xray.
- And I got Savage Worlds explorers edition instead :D. $10 or $40 was easy choice to make, especially when I already have CT.
Quote from: J Arcane;234111Also, canon and canonistas are fucking douchebags, and should always, always, always be totally disregarded because none of them are interested in fun.
Well heck , what category would I fall into then?
I'm VERY much interested in fun in my
TRAVELLER games, yet I try to be somewhat consistent with established canon.
("canon" for me is classic combined with the G:T Books & Timeline. They blend together nicely)- Ed C.
The new version does help a lot as its laying down the new core of what "canon" is and will be, seting the date back to 1105 removes for the offical timeline any of the problems caused by later versions of Traveller.
In a way GT did this as well but as it from the start was an ATU any movement that it made were never "offical" and only applied to GT.
And yes it does in a way have to do with working on it over a while, sometimes you need to try something new and explore new directions.
Rog.
Meh. Following Trav canon is a fool's errand. Me, I use of it what I want an make up the rest.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;234191Meh. Following Trav canon is a fool's errand. Me, I use of it what I want an make up the rest.
And thats the best way to do it, pity that the hardcore grogs dont see it that way (well a small group of them that is).
Its been said before over and over again, canon is only really important to the designers of Traveller products, gamers dont have to toe the line and are free to do as they wish.
Rog.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;234191Meh. Following Trav canon is a fool's errand. Me, I use of it what I want an make up the rest.
So, you in? Dynamo Joe for the setting, a bit of Blue Planet, Firefly and Star Frontiers thrown in? Plus whatever else I can hammer together at the last minute?
If you have a good game, hell yeah why not ;)
Ive played many a game of Traveller where ive "borrowed" one or two (or OK a whole movie) ideas from other sources in my time.
Thats the real difference, I play Traveller and can do what I want its MTU BUT well working on it I have to go with canon as its the OTU - dont mess with the mess ;)
Rog.
Quote from: Roger Calver;234193Its been said before over and over again, canon is only really important to the designers of Traveller products, gamers dont have to toe the line and are free to do as they wish.
Rog.
Same with any game line, really.
Very true, its just with Traveller (and some others) that it seems to draw in a hardened bunch of fans (re:fanatics).
Quote from: Roger Calver;234199Very true, its just with Traveller (and some others) that it seems to draw in a hardened bunch of fans (re:fanatics).
Well, it has always been touted as 'hard sci-fi', which I think plants that psychological bug of 'consistency uber alles'.
There is that to it yes, it doesnt help that you get people quoting from text thats over 30 years old and regarding it as holy.
Quote from: Roger Calver;234199Very true, its just with Traveller (and some others) that it seems to draw in a hardened bunch of fans (re:fanatics).
That happens all the time with the MARP games. The much admired, rarely-played. You should see the old
Ars Magica arguments... or
Harn...