I saw this in the theater yesterday. And I enjoyed it.
It was a period piece. Set just after WW2. The appearance of Godzilla was treated as an insult to injury to a country that had already been reduced to its lowest. That's what the Minus One meant.
The United States was treated as having its own issues in this movie. And was unable to help because of tension with the Soviets. So the Japanese were left to muster their ragtag self-defense militia to take on the crisis. They did a lot with what skeleton of military resources they had been left with.
Sounds like more victim playing by Japan.
If they had any guts they would show post WWII China cheering on Godzilla as payback for the atrocities Japan committed against China and got away with nearly consequence free.
A lot of people are saying that this is the best Godzilla movie ever. I'd agree that the human-bits are very good and I'd struggle to match it with any other. However, there isn't a whole lot of monster action. Overall though, it seems that they wrote themselves into a corner for setting up sequels. I hope that they make a Godzilla Minus Zero (or Godzilla Zero) because Toho has been making too many standalone Godzilla movies. Even the last one ended on the sort of cliffhanger that never got resolved.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 03, 2023, 01:11:19 PM
A lot of people are saying that this is the best Godzilla movie ever. I'd agree that the human-bits are very good and I'd struggle to match it with any other. However, there isn't a whole lot of monster action. Overall though, it seems that they wrote themselves into a corner for setting up sequels. I hope that they make a Godzilla Minus Zero (or Godzilla Zero) because Toho has been making too many standalone Godzilla movies. Even the last one ended on the sort of cliffhanger that never got resolved.
A lot of the older (60s and 70s) Godzilla movies have a lot of non-Godzilla story. My wife, when I watched the second or third movie, asked halfway through, "Doesn't Godzilla show up at some point?" LOL
Quote from: Omega on December 02, 2023, 06:45:19 PM
Sounds like more victim playing by Japan.
If they had any guts they would show post WWII China cheering on Godzilla as payback for the atrocities Japan committed against China and got away with nearly consequence free.
My circle of friends from college started an anime con in the 90's, and one of our staffers was of Chinese descent. He couldn't tell his mom he was going to a Japanese anime con. She was from Nanking.
The trailer reminds me a lot of the original movie, where Godzilla going through Tokyo was properly disturbing.
Quote from: Lurkndog on December 04, 2023, 09:26:54 PM
The trailer reminds me a lot of the original movie, where Godzilla going through Tokyo was properly disturbing.
It was very disturbing. Godzilla was portrayed as a horrifying monster throughout the movie.
The atomic breath set off atomic explosions. There was no downplaying of that. This was a horror film in the true sense.
Quote from: Tod13 on December 03, 2023, 01:20:09 PM
A lot of the older (60s and 70s) Godzilla movies have a lot of non-Godzilla story. My wife, when I watched the second or third movie, asked halfway through, "Doesn't Godzilla show up at some point?" LOL
That was fairly standard for Japanese movies for a long time.
H-Man comes to mind right off as it is more a crime investigation movie than a blob monster movie. Secret of the Teligan is another apparently. Still looking to get a copy some day.
I think it is partially that Japanese moviemakers, particularly in the 1950s, came from a moviemaking tradition where the establishing dramatic scenes were normally the entire movie. It's not a bad thing.
In modern-day media, you get genre movies made by people who have only ever watched genre movies, and they can be, frankly, kinda inbred. They tend to skip over the establishing stuff to go straight to the tropes, and then they hit the tropes way too hard.
For instance, it's pretty clear that a lot of modern day anime studios have only ever watched anime, and so they make entire series composed of nothing but boiled-down anime tropes. None of the characters has anything like a real personality, and EVERYONE IS SHOUTING ALL THE TIME.
I see it in American comics books too. Let's take ____ and make it r-rated and way too explicit. And all too often, they run out of steam after only a couple of years, because apart from rebelling against the status quo, and imitating their heroes, they've got nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubEPzbUUms
This is a fair review.
The original Godzilla movie had the right mix of people vs monster time. The new US made one felt way off balance.
H-man works too because the crime drama and the people mesh into the mystery of the monsters.
The thing with Godzilla is that it's a really great metaphor for nature or atomic power, or whatever and can be used to great effect showing people coping with the bad effects of it.
But at the same time, it's really, really cool to see giant monsters fight each other.
Hollywood has gone the latter route, while Japan has gone back to the roots.
It's a damn good movie, period. And obviously a very solid Godzilla film. One thing I really enjoyed is how they brought back lots of the score from the original film. The way they got around the American occupation was a bit weak and contrived, but I understand why they did it.
And the best part? The utterly non-diverse, entirely Japanese cast. No random BIPOC or half-Caucasian hero in a wheelchair or whatever.
Quote from: Omega on December 06, 2023, 05:02:46 AM
The original Godzilla movie had the right mix of people vs monster time. The new US made one felt way off balance.
For me the one film that had the best mix of human story and monster action was GMK. Both that movie and Minus One have a very similar ending as well.
I'm pretty sure that Godzilla and other giant monsters casually annihilating cities in their wake would terrify the US and Soviets so badly that they'd set aside their differences and work together.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 11, 2023, 03:28:33 PM
I'm pretty sure that Godzilla and other giant monsters casually annihilating cities in their wake would terrify the US and Soviets so badly that they'd set aside their differences and work together.
I'm pretty sure if there was a real Terminator the military would have neutralized the threat. So there was no need for the dramatic narrative of Sarah Conner and Kyle Reese on the run.
Every movie storyline can be rationalized away.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 11, 2023, 03:28:33 PM
I'm pretty sure that Godzilla and other giant monsters casually annihilating cities in their wake would terrify the US and Soviets so badly that they'd set aside their differences and work together.
To be fair, in this movie Godzilla didn't destroy cities, he just wrecked one suburb. An area that is now referred to as a "shopping district". And considering that he was a result of US nuclear testing, the Soviets would look at him as an American weapon.
However, I do think that the movie would have been a bit better if Godzilla was smaller than he was shown so he could be viewed as more of a local threat. It would have made the ending more believable.
The area Godzilla wrecked was also hit with the atomic breath. Which triggered an atomic explosion. Fallout ensued immediately.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 11, 2023, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: Omega on December 06, 2023, 05:02:46 AM
The original Godzilla movie had the right mix of people vs monster time. The new US made one felt way off balance.
For me the one film that had the best mix of human story and monster action was GMK. Both that movie and Minus One have a very similar ending as well.
I have that one on VHS or DVD. Pretty good show and someone had alot of fun with all the carnage of battle. Also one of the few where the military is actually effective to a degree. G84 was another where the military actually held their own against Godzilla with the Super-X.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 03, 2023, 01:11:19 PM
A lot of people are saying that this is the best Godzilla movie ever. I'd agree that the human-bits are very good and I'd struggle to match it with any other. However, there isn't a whole lot of monster action. Overall though, it seems that they wrote themselves into a corner for setting up sequels. I hope that they make a Godzilla Minus Zero (or Godzilla Zero) because Toho has been making too many standalone Godzilla movies. Even the last one ended on the sort of cliffhanger that never got resolved.
Did they? The ending seemed to hint that Godzilla will be back though.
Quote from: Trond on January 01, 2024, 11:32:29 AM
Did they? The ending seemed to hint that Godzilla will be back though.
They showed Godzilla sinking in the water rapidly regenerating. So yeah, it was more than a hint. Godzilla will be back bigger and badder than before. Should they make a sequel to this movie.
Quote from: Omega on December 02, 2023, 06:45:19 PM
Sounds like more victim playing by Japan.
If they had any guts they would show post WWII China cheering on Godzilla as payback for the atrocities Japan committed against China and got away with nearly consequence free.
Quote from: Persimmon on December 11, 2023, 08:50:03 AM
It's a damn good movie, period. And obviously a very solid Godzilla film. One thing I really enjoyed is how they brought back lots of the score from the original film. The way they got around the American occupation was a bit weak and contrived, but I understand why they did it.
And the best part? The utterly non-diverse, entirely Japanese cast. No random BIPOC or half-Caucasian hero in a wheelchair or whatever.
I just saw it tonight with my son, and I agree with Omega here. I liked the first half, but the Japanese ex-military shit was idiotic victim-playing. Seriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
They're trying to make it a gritty historical drama with a disappointing lack of monster action, but the actual history was that post-war Tokyo was full of American soldiers. The few lines about why there were no Americans were nonsense.
A particular line that bugged me was when they criticized the Japanese military for not respecting life, as shown by having poorly-armored tanks and no ejection seats in their planes and using suicide bombers, that unnecessarily got their own soldiers killed... which leaves out the more obvious way the Japanese military didn't respect life - by their war crimes and slaughter of the Chinese and others.
Quote from: jhkim on January 05, 2024, 12:23:01 AMSeriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
That's sounds awesome. I'd totally see that. They could use the set up of Frankenstien's Army which would have made more sense if the protagonists were German rather than Soviets, like in that movie. Maybe similar to Castle Itter but with Frankentruppen.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 05, 2024, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 05, 2024, 12:23:01 AMSeriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
That's sounds awesome. I'd totally see that. They could use the set up of Frankenstien's Army which would have made more sense if the protagonists were German rather than Soviets, like in that movie. Maybe similar to Castle Itter but with Frankentruppen.
You might like it, but I think the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers would not go over well in any of the countries Germany attacked. Or even in Germany.
I would note how GODZILLA MINUS ONE isn't being released anywhere in East or South Asia outside of Japan. Some people find that puzzling, but it seems pretty obvious to me. Here's a sample comment:
QuoteIf anyone is worried that GODZILLA MINUS ONE still isn't showing in HK bcuz of political reasons, pls note that it's not yet released anywhere in Asia either. Not even South Korea, Thailand, Singapore, India, etc.
It seems they're just slow in finding distributors in Asia
https://twitter.com/goofrider/status/1735607670928003180
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 05, 2024, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 05, 2024, 12:23:01 AMSeriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
That's sounds awesome. I'd totally see that. They could use the set up of Frankenstien's Army which would have made more sense if the protagonists were German rather than Soviets, like in that movie. Maybe similar to Castle Itter but with Frankentruppen.
You might like it, but I think the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers would not go over well in any of the countries Germany attacked. Or even in Germany.
I would note how GODZILLA MINUS ONE isn't being released anywhere in East or South Asia outside of Japan. Some people find that puzzling, but it seems pretty obvious to me. Here's a sample comment:
QuoteIf anyone is worried that GODZILLA MINUS ONE still isn't showing in HK bcuz of political reasons, pls note that it's not yet released anywhere in Asia either. Not even South Korea, Thailand, Singapore, India, etc.
It seems they're just slow in finding distributors in Asia
https://twitter.com/goofrider/status/1735607670928003180
Das Boot has entered the chat.
Besides, we know your personal bias against the Japanese, due to your heritage. Not everyone is like you.
Well Japan did colonize, (or liberate, in their perspective) pretty much all of Asia during WW II and the rest of Asia hasn't forgotten that. So, "slowness in finding distributors" might be a bit more than that. And it could be because of the emphasis on Japan as a victim in WW II. Yes, the Japanese people, like the German people, suffered tremendously in WW II, certainly more than the Americans. But they brought it upon themselves.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 09:09:31 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 05, 2024, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 05, 2024, 12:23:01 AMSeriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
That's sounds awesome. I'd totally see that. They could use the set up of Frankenstien's Army which would have made more sense if the protagonists were German rather than Soviets, like in that movie. Maybe similar to Castle Itter but with Frankentruppen.
You might like it, but I think the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers would not go over well in any of the countries Germany attacked. Or even in Germany.
I would note how GODZILLA MINUS ONE isn't being released anywhere in East or South Asia outside of Japan. Some people find that puzzling, but it seems pretty obvious to me. Here's a sample comment:
QuoteIf anyone is worried that GODZILLA MINUS ONE still isn't showing in HK bcuz of political reasons, pls note that it's not yet released anywhere in Asia either. Not even South Korea, Thailand, Singapore, India, etc.
It seems they're just slow in finding distributors in Asia
https://twitter.com/goofrider/status/1735607670928003180
Das Boot has entered the chat.
Besides, we know your personal bias against the Japanese, due to your heritage. Not everyone is like you.
In
Das Boot, the Wehrmacht do not have a feel-good victory in the end. It's completely the opposite. They are beaten and/or killed, and their u-boat destroyed.
Previous Godzilla movies were less controversial because they didn't feature a heroic WWII-era military. The military got their asses kicked by Godzilla. In the original 1954 movie, Godzilla was killed by a scientist who killed himself to make sure that his secret weapon died with him.
---
I agree that this has to do with my Korean heritage, but in the case of the WWII Japanese military, I think there is good reason for negative bias towards them -- and it's one largely shared by the billions of people in the countries that Japan invaded.
The population who
don't have a bias against the WWII Japanese military are from the countries with no experience or knowledge of what the Japanese military did to civilians.
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 12:16:07 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 09:09:31 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 05, 2024, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: jhkim on January 05, 2024, 12:23:01 AMSeriously, if a German movie came out about all-Aryan heroic ex-Wehrmacht in post-WW2 Germany fighting a monster and redeeming their failures in the war, how would that go over?
That's sounds awesome. I'd totally see that. They could use the set up of Frankenstien's Army which would have made more sense if the protagonists were German rather than Soviets, like in that movie. Maybe similar to Castle Itter but with Frankentruppen.
You might like it, but I think the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers would not go over well in any of the countries Germany attacked. Or even in Germany.
I would note how GODZILLA MINUS ONE isn't being released anywhere in East or South Asia outside of Japan. Some people find that puzzling, but it seems pretty obvious to me. Here's a sample comment:
QuoteIf anyone is worried that GODZILLA MINUS ONE still isn't showing in HK bcuz of political reasons, pls note that it's not yet released anywhere in Asia either. Not even South Korea, Thailand, Singapore, India, etc.
It seems they're just slow in finding distributors in Asia
https://twitter.com/goofrider/status/1735607670928003180
Das Boot has entered the chat.
Besides, we know your personal bias against the Japanese, due to your heritage. Not everyone is like you.
In Das Boot, the Wehrmacht do not have a feel-good victory in the end. It's completely the opposite. They are beaten and/or killed, and their u-boat destroyed.
Previous Godzilla movies were less controversial because they didn't feature a heroic WWII-era military. The military got their asses kicked by Godzilla. In the original 1954 movie, Godzilla was killed by a scientist who killed himself to make sure that his secret weapon died with him.
---
I agree that this has to do with my Korean heritage, but in the case of the WWII Japanese military, I think there is good reason for negative bias towards them -- and it's one largely shared by the billions of people in the countries that Japan invaded.
The population who don't have a bias against the WWII Japanese military are from the countries with no experience or knowledge of what the Japanese military did to civilians.
The Japanese military in WWII were butchers. They committed horrible acts on civilian populations and on opposing militaries. Just like the Koreans did during the Korean War. Just like the Vietnamese did during the Vietnam War. Hell, there's not a military out there that hasn't committed atrocities, including most western ones. The difference is that you leftists want to hold the entire race accountable for the actions of individuals. Did Japan, due to its culture, have a high number of individuals involved compared with other countries? Absolutely. But if every Japanese is guilty of and shares the blame for what people in WWII did, then every Korean shares blame and guilt for what happened during the Korean War. And no dodging this by trying to pivot to ideology as a determinant. You haven't offered that absolution to the Japanese, so you don't get it for Korean War crimes.
This is why I can't be a leftist. Because the basic ideological underpinning of leftism is collective guilt. I am responsible for what I do. You are responsible for what you do. Every Japanese soldier was responsible for what they did. Some (many) were monsters. Some fought honorably. But, taking a movie that rejects both the ideology that saw lives as cheap and the reverence for government and its policies and then trying to tar it with the very ideologies it is pushing back against is disingenuous at best. Funny how that word comes up again and again when talking about your posts.
Racism, sexism, and most of the other ideologies that refuse to see the individual instead of the collective are just a small step down the road from you leftists. That which you scream about most, you do so because you can easily see yourself there...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 05:31:26 PM
The Japanese military in WWII were butchers. They committed horrible acts on civilian populations and on opposing militaries. Just like the Koreans did during the Korean War. Just like the Vietnamese did during the Vietnam War. Hell, there's not a military out there that hasn't committed atrocities, including most western ones. The difference is that you leftists want to hold the entire race accountable for the actions of individuals. Did Japan, due to its culture, have a high number of individuals involved compared with other countries? Absolutely. But if every Japanese is guilty of and shares the blame for what people in WWII did, then every Korean shares blame and guilt for what happened during the Korean War. And no dodging this by trying to pivot to ideology as a determinant. You haven't offered that absolution to the Japanese, so you don't get it for Korean War crimes.
I don't hold people accountable based on their race. I hold them accountable based on their current actions.
I have no problems with someone being German. I have a number of German friends. However, I would have a problem with a German who denies that the Holocaust happened, or who glamorizes Nazis - like if they made a feel-good victory movie of Wehrmacht soldier defending the Fatherland.
I have no problem with someone simply for being Japanese. However, I do have a problem with glamorizing the Imperial Japanese military - like if someone made a feel-good victory movie of Japanese soldiers getting to prove their worth.
I've watched a lot of South Korean movies about the war, and they've all been tragedies like Das Boot. There's no heroic victory in them, just like the U.S. never makes heroic feel-good Vietnam movies. If there were a movie that glamorized the Korean War, then I'd have a problem with that too.
---
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 05:31:26 PM
But, taking a movie that rejects both the ideology that saw lives as cheap and the reverence for government and its policies and then trying to tar it with the very ideologies it is pushing back against is disingenuous at best.
Godzilla Minus One does not push back against the military conquests of the Empire. It portrays the officers and soldiers as good people who just needed a chance to prove themselves, and it criticizes the government for not giving their tanks enough armor or putting ejection seats in their airplanes. This is effectively saying the Imperial military just didn't have good enough weapons to do the job right.
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 05:31:26 PM
The Japanese military in WWII were butchers. They committed horrible acts on civilian populations and on opposing militaries. Just like the Koreans did during the Korean War. Just like the Vietnamese did during the Vietnam War. Hell, there's not a military out there that hasn't committed atrocities, including most western ones. The difference is that you leftists want to hold the entire race accountable for the actions of individuals. Did Japan, due to its culture, have a high number of individuals involved compared with other countries? Absolutely. But if every Japanese is guilty of and shares the blame for what people in WWII did, then every Korean shares blame and guilt for what happened during the Korean War. And no dodging this by trying to pivot to ideology as a determinant. You haven't offered that absolution to the Japanese, so you don't get it for Korean War crimes.
I don't hold people accountable based on their race. I hold them accountable based on their current actions.
I have no problems with someone being German. I have a number of German friends. However, I would have a problem with a German who denies that the Holocaust happened, or who glamorizes Nazis - like if they made a feel-good victory movie of Wehrmacht soldier defending the Fatherland.
I have no problem with someone simply for being Japanese. However, I do have a problem with glamorizing the Imperial Japanese military - like if someone made a feel-good victory movie of Japanese soldiers getting to prove their worth.
I've watched a lot of South Korean movies about the war, and they've all been tragedies like Das Boot. There's no heroic victory in them, just like the U.S. never makes heroic feel-good Vietnam movies. If there were a movie that glamorized the Korean War, then I'd have a problem with that too.
---
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 05:31:26 PM
But, taking a movie that rejects both the ideology that saw lives as cheap and the reverence for government and its policies and then trying to tar it with the very ideologies it is pushing back against is disingenuous at best.
Godzilla Minus One does not push back against the military conquests of the Empire. It portrays the officers and soldiers as good people who just needed a chance to prove themselves, and it criticizes the government for not giving their tanks enough armor or putting ejection seats in their airplanes. This is effectively saying the Imperial military just didn't have good enough weapons to do the job right.
There you go, being disingenuous again. The movie states very clearly that the problem was Japanese culture not valuing human life (those words are verbatum). Ejection seats are an example, not presented as the problem. And nowhere does the movie even imply that Japan would have won the war under any circumstances. Once again, your bias shows itself...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 10, 2024, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2024, 07:51:39 PM
Godzilla Minus One does not push back against the military conquests of the Empire. It portrays the officers and soldiers as good people who just needed a chance to prove themselves, and it criticizes the government for not giving their tanks enough armor or putting ejection seats in their airplanes. This is effectively saying the Imperial military just didn't have good enough weapons to do the job right.
There you go, being disingenuous again. The movie states very clearly that the problem was Japanese culture not valuing human life (those words are verbatum). Ejection seats are an example, not presented as the problem. And nowhere does the movie even imply that Japan would have won the war under any circumstances. Once again, your bias shows itself...
For reference, here's the quote of the English translation. I'm assuming for now that the translation is accurate.
QuoteCome to think of it this country has treated life far too cheaply. Poorly armored tanks. Poor supply chains resulting in half of all deaths from starvation and disease. Fighter planes built without ejection seats and finally, kamikaze and suicide attacks. That's why this time I'd take pride in a citizen led effort that sacrifices no lives at all! This next battle is not one waged to the death, but a battle to live for the future.
There are four examples of how the country has treated life too cheaply - and all four examples are about the lives of Japanese soldiers.
Suppose I were to say, "The Nazi government treated life too cheaply. Just think about how they didn't respect the lives of their U-boat crews enough to install more safety features to protect them." This conveys that the people to be worried about were the poor U-boat crews. And saying that speaks volumes about the criticism being expressed.
You might not see it that way, but I am saying that it would be taken that way by most people in the countries Japan invaded, regardless of whether they were left-wing or right-wing.