So Who series 6 started with an episode that was essentially 45mins of constant WTF.
Has Moffat lost the plot or is he a complete genius?
Discuss!
I think if you rewatch the episode next week before the second one it'll make alot more sense as its a 2 parter and seems to have a plot that would have worked better shown as one big episode.
I'm going to rewatch again this week, but after first-view, I thought 'Impossible Astronaut' was totally 'meh'. Not impressed at all. I think I dislike two-parters as series openers in general, maybe.
And they added that Amy narration bit to the opening (which in theory explains the gist of the show to new viewers) and then started the series with "half an episode" that was, indeed, a lot of WTF. Bad call.
So, I've never seen an episode of Dr. Who. I won't be able to catch the premier tonight because of family stuff. My wife and i have been getting into more sci-fi shows lately, and I'm wondering which season I should seek out as a good introduction to the series.
Which season/version(?) would be best for a newbie?
Grab the first season of the new series and go from there(it should be on netflicks if you have access to that) the older stuff is good aswell but you wont really need to watch any of it to understand the basics of the doctor as the new series covers all the relevant stuff as it goes.
Best story I can recomend for a newbie is from the Classic series. Specificly the Colin Baker era. He was far from the best Doctor but he was a very intense and interesting one who was basically murdered by bad plot.
The story is over 4 half hour episodes. It's called Vengence on Varos. No knowledge of the back story is needed to appreciate it at all.
The Doctor and his annoying whiney assitant Perri (no ofence Nicola Bryant but your voice was not made for the talkies era) arrive in a prison complex monitored by a 24 hour live TV broadcast. It is full of deadly traps and guards and the object of this "game show" is to escape with your life. With TARDIS in desperate need of refuling with a rare mineral found on this planet the Doctor and Perri have to face "the game" live on air in order to escape the brutal madness of planet Varos.
It's funny it was written to parody Mary Whitehouse moaning about on screen violence but seen today it can be taken as a pastichie of Big Brother. A much more subtle one than the end of the first Ecclestone Season.
the new doctor is as unpopular with UK audiences (at least those fans of Dr Who I know) as he is with the rest of the world.
even to a casual watcher he fails to inspire on many levels.
Quote from: Ian Warner;453335Has Moffat lost the plot or is he a complete genius?
I'm leaning toward genius. What we're looking at is the intersection of three time travelers and monsters that can make you forget about them a second after you stop seeing them. It should look like swiss cheese.
For a bit, anyway. If the second half is as scattered as the first, then I'll lean away from genius.
Seanchai
The new doctor is actually very popular with most audiences so not sure where you got this unpopular crap from lawbag, i for one find that he's recaptured alot of what made the earlier doctors adventures fun and shed the need for angst that RTD seemed to shoehorn into the doctor companion relationship with every new series.
The only people who don't like Smith are the whiney David Tennant fans.
And they were only made worse by his massive fanwank of a departure.
Agreed, I really like Smith, I just didn't care for this ep.
i definitly think it'll stand up better watched back to back with episode 2 as it seems like a movie cut in 2 from the way its been structured.
I'm not sure I like having three "companions" but aside from that it wasn't too bad. I went in knowing it was a two-parter but didn't stop it from being irritating. :)
They showed some great episodes from last season first, and I watched them. The new season opener was a big letdown after watching the Pandorica.
I'm liking the multiple companions. It reminds me of classic Who.
Seanchai
It was great. I loved Tennant but I think Smith is even better.
Moffatt's episodes have been the best since the return (Blink is still totally genius) and I love the concept of playing with the timelines.
What is there not to like. You have a few glimpses of throw-away other stories with the Dr in Colditz etc then you have the doctor coming back not a few weeks later but 200 years later, which they should do a LOT more of, then you have a great new monster, River Song packing a peacemaker, a terrible Nixon impersonation, and it make my daughter hide under a blanket on the sofa ....... GENIUS.
That stuff from Pandorica when the Dr is jumping back and forth leaving people messages and notes and sneaking about in a Fez ... that stuff is fantastic.
Okay Moffat you are now officially taking the piss!
I suspect he's making sure you stay watching by adding stuff thats left hanging so you wonder when it'll be dealt with.
Yeah and he's done it very well.
None of the running plots that characterise nWho have been this gripping from the start.
Bad Wolf? So What?
Torchwood? Yeah stop plugging your spin off!
There is another? Oh great the Master's back, yawn!
Disappearing planets? A bit weird but nothing out of the ordinary in the Whoverse!
Your song is almost sung? Yeah thanks to the fucking press we already know that! And seriously why is Cheeky Chappy Cockney suddenly afraid of death? He never has been before!
Cracks in time? Meh! More interested in establishing the new Doctor and Companion.
But this time round it's...
HOLY FUCK WHAT IS GOING ON?
I liked it. It wasn't my favorite by far, but I'd watch a show like this. I'm not sure what to think, particularly the last bit with the little girl.
Seanchai
My thery on that is that she absorbed enough ambient time energy whilst amy was in the tardisgalivanting through time and space(similar to how rose reactivated the darlek way back in the first season) yet unaware she was preggers(since who knows how long she was pregnant before she realised) that she's become the first timelord born since the timewar...i could be way off on that but it sorta makes sense.
Is it just me or is episode 2 not being shown tonight?
Day of the Moon was as incomprehensible as the aliens' speech. COuldn't understand a bloody word of it.
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;454893My thery on that is that she absorbed enough ambient time energy whilst amy was in the tardisgalivanting through time and space(similar to how rose reactivated the darlek way back in the first season) yet unaware she was preggers(since who knows how long she was pregnant before she realised) that she's become the first timelord born since the timewar...i could be way off on that but it sorta makes sense.
It's possible that Amy has been some sort of Temporal Anomaly if not outright Time Lord from the start.
She remembered her parents after they vanished from history (and she survived that too) she half remembered Rory and then to top it all she remembered the Doctor.
She really is Impossible Amy!
She's a dreadful companion. They both are. As is the insufferable River Song. I hear her story is supposed to be explained this season. About time, so to speak. It's all getting a bit too clever for its own good.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;455004Day of the Moon was as incomprehensible as the aliens' speech. COuldn't understand a bloody word of it.
There is this thing called closed captioning......
Most
EVERY set has it as a standard option these days.
- Ed C.
He cant use that or he'd have sod all to moan about koltar :)
I don't think their voice was too hard to understand.
It's quite tame compared to Classic Cybermen, Silurians, Zygons etc.
Then again the audience has gotten too used to the incredibly, clear, slow and grating Dalek voice.
Thanks a lot RTD you arsehole!
Quote from: Koltar;455364There is this thing called closed captioning......
Most EVERY set has it as a standard option these days.
- Ed C.
And your point?
Quote from: Ian Warner;455411I don't think their voice was too hard to understand.
I'm surprised anyone can be heard given that the show has the background music turned up to 11 constantly.
That is true. Someone should tell Murray Gold to calm down a bit.
I have a wild theory.
The child is both Amy's daughter and Amy in a Red Dwarf style time loop.
I think Moffat is silly enough to suggest that could work!
I also think she's river aswell which would make sense in a convoluted way and add to the twisty nature of the plot thus far :)
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;455996I also think she's river aswell which would make sense in a convoluted way and add to the twisty nature of the plot thus far :)
I thought about that. It would explain River's hyper-competence.
Seanchai
The second episode was a big improvement. The Silence are pretty cool enemies, and I loved the Doctor's solution.
I didn't care for the Super River Song bit with her shooting a ton of aliens. She's the GM NPC.
They need to drop the Amy bit during the opening, as well. It doesn't fit any of the show's history, and is also pretty lame.
The pirates episode was pretty good. It seems to be veering towards the "Amy and Rory Show, with their plucky sidekick The Doctor" though.
Quote from: danbuter;456488The pirates episode was pretty good. It seems to be veering towards the "Amy and Rory Show, with their plucky sidekick The Doctor" though.
Thats
NOT a 'negative' - thats how the show started back in the 1960s.
The viewpoint characters were humans/folks from Earth and the 'Doctor' was this strange fellow they traveled with who often got them into misadventures and often rescued them out of mishap.
This is the show going back to its roots - with a slightly more mature tone to it all.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;456543Thats NOT a 'negative'... This is the show going back to its roots - with a slightly more mature tone to it all.
This is my opinion, too. I wish the Rose-Jack period would have lasted longer. I'm very happy Amy and Rory are on board. Hopefully, Moffat will do some interesting things with the trio...
(And maybe bring back K-9 now that Ms. Sladen has passed...)
Seanchai
I wish the girl was Romana, but I doubt it. There will probably be some uber-stupid Amy-River thing.
Quote from: Seanchai;456563(And maybe bring back K-9 now that Ms. Sladen has passed...)
Apparently there are STILL liscence problems with K9. The owners have even sold the character to a rival (hah) channel Five where he's had a bit of an upgrade and an annoying SJA style gang of kiddie sleuths.
Only unlike the SJA gang they're not remotely funny.
Quote from: Ian Warner;456724Apparently there are STILL liscence problems with K9.
Aw, crap! I didn't know there were problems in the first place. What about Romana and the Rani? Could they come back?
Seanchai
isnt that version of k9 considered a separate entity though? hense the complete change of appearence.
Quote from: Seanchai;456763Aw, crap! I didn't know there were problems in the first place. What about Romana and the Rani? Could they come back?
Seanchai
Easily. They're characters not props :)
Quote from: Ian Warner;456793Easily. They're characters not props :)
Ah. K-9 is like the Daleks. Got it.
Seanchai
Finally watched "Curse..." - eh, not bad I guess. The siren was purty.
Was anyone else really annoyed when Amy was giving Rory CPR and the Doctor was just sitting there wringing his hands looking helpless? I thought he was going to start crying. This just seems extremely out-of-character to me.
Quote from: danbuter;457456Was anyone else really annoyed when Amy was giving Rory CPR and the Doctor was just sitting there wringing his hands looking helpless? I thought he was going to start crying. This just seems extremely out-of-character to me.
That didn't bother me. What bothered me is that I wasted my time watching her give him CPR and then had to wait for him to start breathing on his own. How many times have they killed off these characters now only to revive them? It's starting to wear thin.
I'm not going to argue with you about that. I would have been happy if Rory had stayed dead after last season.
And his reviving himself after Amy gave up was way too TV cliche.
While we're on the subject of annoying things, the whole getting fired from the FBI for wanting to marry was totally out of place. We're really going to discuss that in 1969? Really? Please spare me the social agendas and just entertain me. I don't need Doctor Who to "enlighten" me.
And I hate the new theme music. I was hoping they'd change it this season, but no such luck.
And finally, am I the only one sick of River? The whole guns a blazing scene was utter crap. If she was any good, it would have taken one shot per creature. The whole twirling thing was so stupid. If it was meant to be exciting, they missed the mark completely. Plus the laser sound is stupid.
OK. That said, I still generally liked the episodes. I really appreciated the third episode, explaining what the siren really was. I thought that was really well done.
The Amy/Rory thing is getting very, very worn out for me, in a way even Catherine fucking Tate couldn't manage, which is saying something.
The whole goddamn relationship has felt forced and awkward from the fucking beginning, the characters have no chemistry whatsoever together, and it was bloody obvious that Amy was really interested in the Doctor and always ways, and it's only by writer fiat in an attempt to avert another Rose Tyler situation that she's continued to soldier on with this useless fucking loser.
It's not quite Anakin/Padme bad yet, but if they keep it up it's going to go down as one of the worst, most contrived, and above all most bloody irritating romantic relationships in the history of SF.
And when you've got the whole of bloody Torchwood to compete with, that, again, is an impressive fucking feat.
Rory seems to be the new Adric. Which is unfair for three reasons.
1) Adric was a super genius who was very useful to the Doctor.
2) Adric was concieted arrogant little shit. For all his faults Rory is the sort of bloke you'd have a drink with if you met him in a pub.
3) There have been plenty of useless companions and although most of them were female at least 1 was male (Harry "I say old thing" Sullivan)
I'm fed up with River as well.
I rather liked Harry, old thing. The dinosuars, were a cheap price to pay for the exit of Adric. All that aside ,no one, but no one, touches Susan in the useless fucking companion department.
The romance plot lines are out of place as were the social issues mentioned by Bret. One thing the old series did well was reserve love for a reason to write someone out of the show (e.g. Susan at the end of The Dalek Invasion of Earth. I'd like to see more of that: immediately. The actress playing River is awful. Every time she says "Spoilers" my skin crawls.
To be fair Susan could pilot the TARDIS better than the Tennant Doctor ever could.
And there was running gag after Susan left that they had to have someone useless at some point. Hell they even made it Jo Grant's defining character trait.
However I think all the companions had skills of some use to the Doctor I mean even space Chav had her moments.
Oh and howabout the nWho trend for making the useless badass eventually.
Look at "Mickey the idiot." He started as the less than bright on off boyfriend of space Chav he progressed into hacker/web journalist then to reluctunt resistance leader then to badass mercenary alien hunter who eats Sontarans for breakfast.
That's why I was hoping old psycho Rory tonight would be an at least semi permenant feature. That guy was bad ass!
The Neil Gaiman episode tonight was great.
Just saw it. Great episode. I won't put spoilers in, but it's a massive improvement over last week's Pirates.
A vast improvement over last weeks episode, possibly one of the better episodes of nuwho so far aswell.
Quote from: Ian Warner;458055To be fair Susan could pilot the TARDIS better than the Tennant Doctor ever could.
And there was running gag after Susan left that they had to have someone useless at some point. Hell they even made it Jo Grant's defining character trait.
However I think all the companions had skills of some use to the Doctor I mean even space Chav had her moments.
Oh and howabout the nWho trend for making the useless badass eventually.
Look at "Mickey the idiot." He started as the less than bright on off boyfriend of space Chav he progressed into hacker/web journalist then to reluctunt resistance leader then to badass mercenary alien hunter who eats Sontarans for breakfast.
That's why I was hoping old psycho Rory tonight would be an at least semi permenant feature. That guy was bad ass!
I very much liked Micky from the beginning. I thought the way the 9th/10th doctors treated him was out of character in many ways, I could see perhaps the 1st or perhaps the 6th behaving in a similar way, but, aside from the fact I that like them, those guys were both assholes.
The less said about Rose the better.
As for Susan, I'm not so much referring to her skill set as her propensity to collapse into a blubbering screaming mess. Jo at least wasn't written as coward; Susan often was. Jesus, i know too much about this shit, especially for an American.
The new episode was indeed excellent, and I'm not even much of a Gaiman fan.
I'm in the process of watching the first 3 story arcs with William Hartnell (got the DVD's on sale!). He is very different from all the new Doctors, colder and maybe even meaner. Susan does cry a lot. I'm wondering if she actually is the Doctor's granddaughter, or just "adopted". (Please don't spoil it).
It seems to me that Ian is the Hero of those early adventures, not the Doctor.
Quote from: Aos;458230I very much liked Micky from the beginning. I thought the way the 9th/10th doctors treated him was out of character in many ways, I could see perhaps the 1st or perhaps the 6th behaving in a similar way, but, aside from the fact I that like them, those guys were both assholes.
The less said about Rose the better.
I have liked all the new companions, including Rose. I've been watching old episodes of classic Who via Netflix and it seems to me that most companions in past eras are pretty useless. *cough* Jo Grant *cough*
Seanchai
Quote from: danbuter;458233I'm wondering if she actually is the Doctor's granddaughter, or just "adopted". (Please don't spoil it).
There's nothing to spoil as far as I'm aware as they never actually say on the show. I think some books delve into the issue, but...
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;458236most companions in past eras are pretty useless. *cough* Jo Grant *cough*i
That's not really true about Jo. She started out that way, but she got pretty competent. She was able to defeat the Master's mind control, for example. While Turlough had his own agenda, he was competent, as was Nyssa. Liz Shaw was able to hold her own with the Doctor when it came to Earthly sciences.
And I believe Zoe was on record as being as smart if not smarter than the Doctor. She also looked resonably good in a sparkly jumpsuit.
Quote from: Aos;458239And I believe Zoe was on record as being as smart if not smarter than the Doctor. She also looked resonably good in a sparkly jumpsuit.
Yes, but her problem was being too naive.
naive =/= useless.
Quote from: Aos;458241naive =/= useless.
No, but it equals getting into trouble.
Not to nit pick, but useless or not, I thought that's generally what companions were for. Well, that and providing the Doctor someone to explain everything to.
Quote from: Aos;458230As for Susan, I'm not so much referring to her skill set as her propensity to collapse into a blubbering screaming mess. Jo at least wasn't written as coward; Susan often was. Jesus, i know too much about this shit, especially for an American.
To be fair to Susan she had a very sheltered upbringing on Galifray. She had enough trouble trying to take in the relatively safe and primitive Earth 1963 in an Unearthly Child. When things start trying to kill her she naturally freaks out.
I'll be posting my bottom 10 worst and top 10 best companions on the Shadow World blog soonish. Complete with Stats for Wizkid.
Quote from: Aos;458234It seems to me that Ian is the Hero of those early adventures, not the Doctor.
Ian is definitely the man of action. At least for the first story (the cavemen), the Doctor spends most of his time just being pissed off. Not to mention trying to murder the injured caveman.
Quote from: Seanchai;458237There's nothing to spoil as far as I'm aware as they never actually say on the show. I think some books delve into the issue, but...
Seanchai
Wouldn't it be a laugh if Doctor Who really was named Doctor Foreman?
Quote from: Aos;458243Not to nit pick, but useless or not, I thought that's generally what companions were for. Well, that and providing the Doctor someone to explain everything to.
Yes. That's part of what I mean by useless. People have listed ways in which various companions were smart or actually did something, but in general, they're role has been a kind of conversation bot - someone for the Doctor to explain things to. Hence these notable exceptions.
As I said, I've been watching classic Who. I saw an interview on one of the disks and Elizabeth Sladen was talking about how the actors know that's the role.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;458283Yes. That's part of what I mean by useless. People have listed ways in which various companions were smart or actually did something, but in general, they're role has been a kind of conversation bot - someone for the Doctor to explain things to. Hence these notable exceptions.
As I said, I've been watching classic Who. I saw an interview on one of the disks and Elizabeth Sladen was talking about how the actors know that's the role.
Seanchai
I watched most of the older episodes on PBS late night on Saturdays during the early 1990's. We used to place bets about who would get captured first.
@Ian, as a character, I concede that Susan has plenty of reasons for being a whimpering pile- it's just annoying to watch and subtracts from my enjoyment of the show.
Quote from: danbuter;458259Wouldn't it be a laugh if Doctor Who really was named Doctor Foreman?
Actually Susan's name is one she made up according to An Unearthly Child. What would her Time Lord Name be I wonder?
The Screamer?
Quote from: Aos;458284We used to place bets about who would get captured first.
Captured or do something impetuous, thus causing plot complications. Which isn't to say that they're never useful - I remember Zoe coming up with some ideas in an episode I saw a few months ago.
Seanchai
Yeah but even Victoria the classic screaming girl came in useful once.
Her scream shattered the invaders as they were made out of crystal!
How awesome. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0113d7y/Doctor_Who_Doctor_Who_Cobwebs_Episode_2/)
I probably should listen to ep1 first.
Rory is NOT 'useless' - in tonight's episode he is kind to someone who needed a bit of kindness.
Only two-thirds the way through the episode, but in the long-run that could be a useful trait for a companion of the Doctor.
- Ed C.
Pretty good episode. Part 1 of ? for those who don't know. Very cliffhanger ending. I will say that I think I've seen to much scifi in my life. I wasn't really surprised by anything that happened in the episode. And parts of it, I predicted as soon as I saw the initial encounter of the Doctor and his inspection.
Did anyone else get the feeling Rory was bening mind controlled? Seemed completly out of character to be provoking Amy like that even if it was the right thing for him.
No, it's just poor writing. The episode was dreadfully predictable and not remotely scary or interesting. Yes doctor, they are saintly living creatures, yawn. At least the old dear had the right idea, zap the fuckers back into hot mud. Seriously wtf? The rest of this season has been surprisingly unable to piss me off and now this? Fail.
And how long does the tardis' pregnancy kit take to work? This is episode 5 ffs!
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;460084No, it's just poor writing. The episode was dreadfully predictable and not remotely scary or interesting. Yes doctor, they are saintly living creatures, yawn. At least the old dear had the right idea, zap the fuckers back into hot mud. Seriously wtf? The rest of this season has been surprisingly unable to piss me off and now this? Fail.
And how long does the tardis' pregnancy kit take to work? This is episode 5 ffs!
On one hand, it helps if your test subject isn't re-enacting Schroedinger's moggy experiments, but on the other hand - you'd have thought the Time Lords would have expected that when they built their tech.
I got the impression that the Doctor had encountered the Flesh later on in the human race's timeline, and wanted to make sure this meeting wouldn't screw that up.
The TARDIS should be able to tell the real Doctor / Amy / Rory, though - they'd be saturated full of void stuff, and the flesh clones wouldn't.
I had the feeling that the Flesh were some sort of Time Lord Superweapon like the Hand of Omega or the Silver Nemesis.
If that is the case the TARDIS won't be able to tell the difference at all.
Which gives them a get out clause for the whole killing the Doctor thing.
Quote from: Ian Warner;460207I had the feeling that the Flesh were some sort of Time Lord Superweapon like the Hand of Omega or the Silver Nemesis.
If that is the case the TARDIS won't be able to tell the difference at all.
Which gives them a get out clause for the whole killing the Doctor thing.
I was speaking to a friend last night who wondered if the Flesh might, one day, evolve into the Autons, and that's where the Doctor knows them from.
Adorable GF also made the Time Lord guess. Who else might be a copy at the moment? Rory was acting odd, but he is a nurse, and this is the sort of situation he'd be in at work, so that training could kick in.
There's nursing and there's outright slobbery affection. I don't know if it's the writer or Arthur Davril's fault but as I said I thought he was being mind controlled.
Ok that made a kind of sense that was not.
To quote Homer Simpson, can someone please explain the part where you said all about the stuff?
Well that twist was incredibly predictable!
However nice addition to Sontaran lore. Want to punish a trooper? Demote him to nurse and give him fully functioning tits!
Silurian ninja Detective and her Cockney Lady Friend were pretty funny too.
What's the betting a Torchwood apperance will ruin the ambiguity with an off colour joke about Silurian tongues?
I bet they were part of torchwood back in hte late 19th century.
I hope they explain why River Melody has no memory of trying to kill the doctor in a spacesuit in 1969 right prior to regenerating.
Hah! Someone on RPGnet thinks the special companions for this episode were created by Special Snowflake DW Roleplayers.
Guess they have a point. Sontaran Nurse is pretty out there though not as out there as Silurian, lesbian, ninja, Sherlock Holmes!
Talking Dr WTF doll comes with three action settings:
First, he's whimsical old professor.
Second, he's thinking out loud woe is me I fucked up.
Third, he's knower of all things bipolar deux ex machina man.
Seriously, Moffat, learn to write a fucking story.
Quote from: Ian Warner;462350Hah! Someone on RPGnet thinks the special companions for this episode were created by Special Snowflake DW Roleplayers.
Guess they have a point. Sontaran Nurse is pretty out there though not as out there as Silurian, lesbian, ninja, Sherlock Holmes!
best thing about Sontaran Nurse was the Welsh accent.
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;462272I bet they were part of torchwood back in hte late 19th century.
Alice and Emily (The TW3 operatives of the time) don't have half as much class; they're gun-crazy lesbians. Which would have been fine in Torchwood series 1, but it was another rubbish bit in S2.
(The monster-of-the-week episodes of the second series were the best of all the Torchwood episodes.)
RTD or (Shudder) Chibnall couldn't have written the Silurian and her serving girl anywhere near as well.
I'm reliably informed that the next regeneration may go very fucking wrong.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/Friendly_Computer/MalcolmTuckerastheDoctor.jpg)