So....I'm watching "Stolen Earth" for maybe the 3rd or 4th time tonight on BBC America. The 1st time I saw it is when American Sci Fi Channel showed it last summer.

I start getting emotional/almost tearing up when I see the Doctor's various companions react upon hearing the first "EXTERMINATE!" over the radio from the invading Daleks.

Then it hits me : This is working on 2 or 3 levels at once. The show's writers KNOW that we might have sampled the spin-off programs, we already like Captain Jack, Sarah Jane, and Martha Jones.  Also the scene partially relies on 20 to 30 years worth of previous DOCTOR WHO episodes that we may have watched.  We know that the Daleks are supposed to be a terrifying threat - but these actors play their reactions so well - that we really buy the idea this time.

Hell, last week's replay I was near tears when the Doctor And Rose are running to meet each other - and get interrupted by that Dalek.  Then Jack and Rosse hurriedly drag him into the TARDIS.


The scripts have been very good the past 4 to 5 years with this version(s) of the Doctor. I'm really looking fotward to see what the new guy can do with it. In general they really got it rigjht this time.


- Ed C.

Not only has the scripting improved since the 80's (although I do think they could have done better with the Sontoran episodes), but the special effects finally match the scope of the story.

I got to see the proper number of pilots. 'Nuff said.

Seanchai

My only complaint with the new series is that it is too melancholy. This is especially apparent when you watch them marathon style on DVD. The Doctor himself is an optimist, but the show... not so much. It seems like in season 4 they can't go anywhere without being emotionally traumatized, and that shit that happened with Donna just kind of left me flat.
However, i still love  the show- especially season 3.

I thought Stolen Earth was shockingly bad television, with far too much crammed in and motion in place of plot.

I pretty much gave up on the show after that, I watched part of the Christmas special, but it was shit, so I stopped part way.

To be honest, if not for the geek kudos and the history, I don't think this show would get the props it does.  It's often badly written, the plots make little sense, it's astonishingly formulaic and certain key cast members (the woman who plays Martha Jones in particular) simply can't act.

Obviously YMMV.

I'd echo Balbinus' comments - it's not really my cup of tea and I've only seen odd episodes rather than making the effort to watch or record it. I did enjoy certain ones - the 'Have you seen my Mummy' episodes in particular.

Things I've not enjoyed particularly:

- the over-emphasis on Rose Tyler. And then Donna.
- too much emphasis on fucking Daleks and Cybermen (and the fan-wanking when the two collided)
- too much intrusion into the real world. What I found far more frightening in the old series was seeing plots unfold at a very low, local level in isolated places. Towing the earth through space doesn't really do it for me.
- David Tennant shouting and gurning as the Doctor tries to decide whether he's really the terror of the Daleks or a horny teenager.

And despite all that, that's fine because lots of people apparently do like it and it's back on the telly.

Joshua,

 Look at it thyis way - with the current version being this popular  - folks are now trying to find DVD versions of the other Doctors when he fought things that are mentioned or seen on the current episodes.
They discover the joys of watching Jon Pertwee, Peter Davison, and Tom Baker. Even the quirkiness of Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy can be fun at times.


Also, the curremnt incarnation does do a respectful tip of the hat to the older adventures quite often via passing comments and such.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;284020Look at it this way...

Or this way: Doctor Who has always been campy. It's never been great television per se. You love it because you love it. Or not.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;284037Or this way: Doctor Who has always been campy. It's never been great television per se. You love it because you love it. Or not.

Seanchai

That works for me as well.

 I just get verbose at times.


- Ed C.

The new Dr Who is focused on character and (to a lesser extent) setting, not plot and ideas. This transformation happened while it was off-air, in the hands of the New Adventures authors. It's also fallen into the modish event-TV mode - stunt casting, "earth shattering" revelations, every episode trying to top the previous.

I think it's best to accept that it's a different beast from Pertwee/Baker classic era Who and judge it on its own merits. (In my own opinion, it has a reasonable hit rate. I thought the last season was good, on the whole, and the previous one bad, on the whole.)

Ned

Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey;284106The new Dr Who is focused on character and (to a lesser extent) setting, not plot and ideas. This transformation happened while it was off-air, in the hands of the New Adventures authors. It's also fallen into the modish event-TV mode - stunt casting, "earth shattering" revelations, every episode trying to top the previous.

I think it's best to accept that it's a different beast from Pertwee/Baker classic era Who and judge it on its own merits. (In my own opinion, it has a reasonable hit rate. I thought the last season was good, on the whole, and the previous one bad, on the whole.)

Ned

I think Koltar was the only person who mentioned classic era.  I'm judging it against other programs I might watch today.  I could care less whether it encourages people to dig out the old stuff.

Obviously it's had its moments, Girl in the Fireplace, Who's my Mummy, Blink and so on.  It's not all bad.

But I do think the season finale was terrible, and the christmas special not much better.  YMMV, and that's cool.  I think we agree it's patchy, we just disagree on whether it's patchy and overall not so great or patchy but overall pretty good.  For me the hit rate isn't good enough to really justify my devoting much more time to it, for you it is, but then my only real disagreement with the OP was the assumption that it's universally agreed to be great.  Hell, breathing isn't universally agreed to be great, let alone this.

Balbinus, channelling his inner curmudgeon.

I thought the season finale was OK. It was over-wrought (it's always over-wrought - too much bombastic music, lingering moody shots, over-written "emotional" scenes) but the twist with Donna was well done. The Christmas Special didn't make a lot of sense, but it was fun. Once again, it wasn't about Cybermen and what have you, it was about David Morrisey dealing with his grief. It was handled somewhat sentimentally and oafishly, but it's Dr Who, innit? The steampunk cyber-mecha made me laugh. But I'm a glass-half-full kind of a guy.

It's a kid's a show and naturally doesn't have the depth of other stuff I watch. It's pretty much the only show like that I watch - I don't watch Demons or Merlin or Primeval or anything like that. I might compare it to Life on Mars, but that was an adult show with adult depth (although, even so, it was generally a much better show).

It's unsatisfying to me in the same way that a can of Coke is unsatisfying - sugary nothing for kids. I wouldn't compare it with The Wire or Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm or The Devil's Whore, eg (I don't watch a lot of TV, as it happens, so I'm a little starved for comparisons) - that's a category error, I think. It's one of a whole type of shows that I don't really like, and as an example of That Type of Thing, I'd say it's not too bad at all, off and on. It's certainly the best of That Type of Thing being made in the UK.

You do seem to have a harsh on for it. Perhaps the emphatic language doesn't reflect your view of the show so much (which seems more "meh" than "grrr!") as frustration with the show's numerous boosters. I have a strong desire for it to work, dammit, so perhaps I am over-forgiving. Much of the online excitement leaves me baffled, too, but I'm hoping the show can grow and improve.

One thing I will say, is that it's over-merchandised to an absurd degree!

Ned

Too much hanky panky in the TARDIS, imo, but, hey, I get to watch new episodes.
Besides, Moffat wrote some of the best eps in season 2 and 3 -Love and Monsters was great, eg. No hanky panky, and very little obnoxious blonde. So I'm guessing the new whole season will be an improvement. Even with EmoWho.

Yes, its true that the new doctor who focuses more on characters, less on plot; but that in and of itself is not a bad thing. I think many people fail to remember how often the "Plot" of the old series was a relatively formulaic cliff-hanger 40s-serial monster-of-the-week affair.  It had great writing, most of the time, terrible special effects, and occasionally really bad overacting.  
The new series is well written (barring the occasionally overly cutsey-poo scenes or tweeness), has good special effects most of the time (certainly compared to the old series) and tends not to have too much overacting plus a few really brilliant acting scenes.

I'm sorry, but if you're trying to portray the Old Who as Olivier and the new who as "The OC", you're just wrong. The Old Who was not a genius work of literature or film-making or even acting; and the new Who is not consistently shallow pap. Neither are true.

And while I agree with Sun Boy that there is far too much hanky-panky in the TARDIS, at least the new who tends to deal with Human issues some more than the old series did.  There were moments in the old series where you could just be baffled by its disconnection from human characterization or emotion (like when Nyssa finds out her world is dead in one scene, and is all over-it and happy in the next). The old series focused TOO LITTLE on character, to the point that many of the Companions were nothing more than stereotypes with no real substance.

And all this from someone who ADORES Dr.Who in both incarnations. But I'm not blind as to what either series' flaws are. As for the new one, I think it might be something of a victim of its own success. Its popularity forces the producers to go for the bigger bang each time, and to keep recycling the tested formulae, and that's not good. On the other hand, its popularity guarantees that it'll keep being with us for a long time to come, and that is good. The universe needs a Doctor.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;286382I'm sorry, but if you're trying to portray the Old Who as Olivier and the new who as "The OC", you're just wrong. The Old Who was not a genius work of literature or film-making or even acting; and the new Who is not consistently shallow pap. Neither are true.

I'm not sure who the you is you're addressing, but I didn't make any comparisons at all with old Who.