Hey, when the guy who was basically chief dictator of RPG.net turns around and says "even I hate it on RPG.net, because its become so sanitized, because of what we did to it", and that was precisely what he fucking said, I'm going to take a moment to enjoy that.


And again, that is what he said, right here, in this forum. He said that his mod decisions made RPG.net into a place so inane and boring that even he hated it.

How the FUCK is that not admitting that you were wrong?

RPGPundit

For me this had nothing to do with Cessna.  I've never had a conversation with the man and never had a run in with mods at TBP.  My issue with this whole situation is this.

Cessna admitted to the people at RPGnet that he posts here for good mod-free gaming discussion.

Cessna stepped down as an admin because he was burned out from all the time he spent chasing down complaints at RPGnet.

Cessna posted here and quite clearly warned us against turning this place into a bland colorless board like RPGnet.

It should have ended there.  Actions speak louder than words but instead of letting Cessna's actions speak for themselves, Pundit tried to wring an admission out of him that RPGnet sucks as a "see I told you so".  Cessna was never going to say that and all the exchange accomplished was to undo the work some posters here have done on RPGnet to try to lure new posters into giving this place a try.

Quote from: David RI think folks (I sure am) are tired of this fued with tBP. My comments were directed in support of those who want this fued to end and are tired of the sometimes wankerish behaviour of the Pundit when it comes to tBP.

I can understand that. But, for me, it comes back to who owns the board. It's Pundit. It's his board. Whether you love or hate TBP, you have to expect given the owners views that there's going to be a number of discussions about the site.

Seanchai

Quote from: ImperatorMy opinion has been expressed far better than I would have. I will say it again: it's time for people to stop flogging RPG.net's dead horse. Some of you were banned from there: life sometimes sucks. Get over it.

I'm not sure why people assume we're not. Because we talk about it? So what?

Seanchai

Quote from: GrimjackFor me this had nothing to do with Cessna.  I've never had a conversation with the man and never had a run in with mods at TBP.  My issue with this whole situation is this.

Cessna admitted to the people at RPGnet that he posts here for good mod-free gaming discussion.

Cessna stepped down as an admin because he was burned out from all the time he spent chasing down complaints at RPGnet.

Cessna posted here and quite clearly warned us against turning this place into a bland colorless board like RPGnet.

It should have ended there.  Actions speak louder than words but instead of letting Cessna's actions speak for themselves, Pundit tried to wring an admission out of him that RPGnet sucks as a "see I told you so".  Cessna was never going to say that and all the exchange accomplished was to undo the work some posters here have done on RPGnet to try to lure new posters into giving this place a try.

My point exactly.

Quote from: David RTrue, but notice he didn't have a problem with Seanchai or Sett dogpiling on him.

No, but to be fair, by the time I really started talking about him, he'd already left. I'd made some comments about his judgements, but that was about it.

Seanchai

Quote from: Christmas ApeSomewhere that we didn't give a shit what his avatar used to look like, didn't give a damn what he'd done for tBP, where we'd just talk Traveller and wargames and shit. Somewhere that he was another gamer, who liked to talk games.

I've been thinking. He can do that. Just don't use "Cessna."

Quote from: Christmas ApeHis mistake, I think, was either making it clear that it really was him or trying to actually engage Pundit in genuine conversation.

Yeah, there's definitely that.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiI've been thinking. He can do that. Just don't use "Cessna."

What about you, then? Are you going to adopt a new name, so that we don't remember your online shenanigans?

Talk about letting go...

And I have to begrudgingly agree with Pundit on one aspect.  It's not a stretch to interpret what Cessna said as an admission of regret that the policies, some of which he might have been responsible, ended up in a place he hates. You don't have to "twist" any words to come to that conclusion.

On the other hand, Grimjack has it right.  The correct thing to do would have been to leave that out there without comment.  So much better for everyone.  Sadly, I was surprised when Pundit didn't respond right away, which tells you something - then he lived down to my expectations and I remembered he didn't respond because he was on vacation.

So Pundit could be right in his reading of Cessna (so stop saying he was twsting meaning out of those words), but a complete jackass in how he handled it. The two things are not mutually exclusive.  Hell, Pundit has proved that plenty of times.

Seeing as some of the newer arrivals to the infraweb are making the mistake of engaging in a conversation with him:

Back in the olden rpg.net days Seanchai was the drama queen of the bottomfeeders, head slime of the cesspool, a "man" possessed, then as now, with infinite patience and time to engage in arguments at once petty, circular and pointless. Then as now he's been looking for nothing... except for having the last word.

And who am I not to grant it to him?

This is what Cessna said in the original thread:

QuoteIn fact, this is EXACTLY how rpg.net moderation started in 2001/2002. EXACTLY. I can dig up the threads and link to them if you like.
Be careful here. If you aren't, six years from now you'll find yourself being called "fascist" by a group of disaffected users for trying to keep a message board from being turned into a craphole, so that other people have a nice place to talk about games - only to end up with a place so bland and inane you yourself hate it.

Pundit's reply was a class act IMO :

QuoteI think this is a good warning. Just because it happened there doesn't mean it'll happen here. One of the differences is that here you have a guy at the top who is deeply and intensely commited to defending the right to speak, in particular regarding RPGs but also in general.
But that doesn't mean the warning isn't good, I'm painfully aware of the slope that this represents, and the danger of what it could lead to.

Then he post this on his blog:

QuoteBoys, what you need to see in Cessna isn't the guy who banned you, its the defector that is now acknowleging the mistakes that were made.  His presence there is a vindication of what we are trying to do with theRPGsite, and a condemnation of RPG.net as it exists right now.  The fact that their "buddy" Cessna is there might make others from RPG.net start to wonder why that would be, and come look and learn about theRPGsite for themselves, rather than gorging themselves on the tripe that has been fed to them about us

Admitting ? Come on . There are various ways to interpret Cessna's comments. Pundit chose the one that best suited his purpose of furthering his silly fued.

The original thread is here:

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5583

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RAdmitting ? Come on . There are various ways to interpret Cessna's comments. Pundit chose the one that best suited his purpose of furthering his silly fued.

Could it be that others might now be reinterpreting Cessna's words for their own purposes and with their own grudges?

I mean, I have absolutely NO HISTORY WITH CESSNA.  Never knew him. Didn't post at RPGnet, and so was never modded. Don't care about it one way or the other. If it wasn't so large as to feel overwhelming, I might post there.

So how is it I had a similar interpretation?  How is it I, too, took this as a veiled admission that he regretted the policies and the enforcement thereof. With no axe to grind and no feud to further, I took the words as an admission. Is that crazy?

And, of course, we agree on Pundit's reaction - pure asshattery.

Thus my conclusion that the two are not mutually exclusive.

As to Pundit's blog - well, that's separate from TheRPGSite. I'm surprised so many people that think Pundit is a fucktard read his blog. I don't even think quite that badly of him, and I haven't read it in ages.

Quote from: James J SkachCould it be that others might now be reinterpreting Cessna’s words for their own purposes and with their own grudges?

Honestly James, I don't know? I don't see what purposes or grudges some folks would have. We have all had our encounters with the Pundit. I don't think it's that. I do think that some of us, view (rightly or wrongly)that this place is the place to talk about games. That all are welcomed here. Although there are some who have been banned from tBP, most of us still post there. I mean I occasionally post there. I've never had a run in with Cessna, but I do have a problem with the mod practices over there.

For my part I just think that politicizing Cessna's presence was a douchebag thing to do, esp after the classy manner the Pundit took Cessna's advise in the thread I linked to. It's the way how this place should function. It also was a fine example to the numerous BP lurkers that things here were not as bad as some said it was.

But I've spent enough time on this. I admit, I kinda of lost the plot there for a second. Okay back to talkin' games.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: James J SkachAs to Pundit's blog - well, that's separate from TheRPGSite. I'm surprised so many people that think Pundit is a fucktard read his blog. I don't even think quite that badly of him, and I haven't read it in ages.

What's really funny is that all these people that don't like him reading it just inflates the numbers he uses to "prove" how right he is in popular opinion. Reading his blog is a lose-lose proposition if you're an anti-Pundit type. first you suffer through something you hate, then you give him numbers he can distort for ammunition later.

The worst thing, if you really hate him, is that he'd be right. Your reading his thoughts does indicate a certain kind of popularity, though you give it grudgingly. By reading it, there is a tacit admitance that you are at least passingly interested in what it is he has to say. In the marketplace of ideas, that's power.

It's like striking against capitalism and its absorbtion of the counter-culture by shopping at Hot-Topic (a sentiment that I've always found unendingly ironic, btw).

I don't hate Pundit anymore then I subscribe to his newsletter. I used to occasionally stop by to see what he's written, but now I frequent this site. I suspect that, as much as I disagree with him, my being here is a tacit admission that I approve of the way he runs this site and that it's worth the disagreement with him on other matters.