Quote from: SeanchaiAgain, I'm new and not familar with the history of the site, but isn't this board his, to do with what he will? Or does he look after it for someone else? Or something similar.

Seanchai

Whether he owns the board is not relevant as far as I can tell. He acted the inappropriately IMO. I called him on it.

As owner of the board, I guess he could ban me for it. That is his call.

Bill

Quote from: James J SkachYou know me well enough now, Bill, to know that I like to try to break things down to their most granular meaningful elements.  So I'm just trying to get a handle on why people got so upset over Cessna.

I'm realizing that it wasn't so much about Cessna as a confluence of him being the one "chased away" at the time people were getting sick of Pundit. If that's all it was, s'all cool with me.

I wonder if there was a mirror TheRPGSite started by someone, but without Pundit as anything other than troll, would ya'll go there to chat?

I can only speak for myself but you have my position on the matter.

As to a Pundit-less theRPGSite, I would consider it. I am not a big theorist so a lot of the focused boards out there are not for me. RPG.Net is a bit touchy for me to comfortably chat, not that I am gunning to do racial slurs or anything. EnWorld is just a little too drenched in D20 for me. Circus Maximus seems way too like tangency to me. There are some smaller sites I find interesting but they have a very limited community.

And yes, James, I hope I did not come off too snarky. My goal was to clarify not dig. Essentially, Pundit is not going to know that behavior is not appreciated if you just sit and nod at the screen, you need to post (not, generic you).

Bill

Quote from: James J SkachI wonder if there was a mirror TheRPGSite started by someone, but without Pundit as anything other than troll, would ya'll go there to chat?

Probably not. But if it existed and I'd found it first, I probably wouldn't come here. This assumes that other than Pundit's status as Boss Man everything else remains the same. Unless I see an interesting title pop up on the front page (like the Gygax thread) I ignore his subforum, so for the most part it would be the exact same experience.

Quote from: TonyLBUh ... weren't your arguments mainly "Cessna is wrong for being too sensitive"?  I don't see how that is relevant to people's claim that Pundit was wrong for being abusive and vindictive.  Both things can easily be true at the same time.

You really can't vindicate Pundit by vilifying his targets.

Actually most of us cesspool haters hated him for being a pompous asshole, which he was, is and likely always will be.

Quote from: HinterWeltWhether he owns the board is not relevant as far as I can tell.

You said you were trying to change his behavior ("For me, it is not about Cessna but trying to potty train Pundit"). If he is the board owner, it seems to me to be like telling someone what to do in their own home.

And it's not as if he didn't lay out the ground rules for what was acceptable behavior in his home...

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiExcept I don't know that I'd say folks are going on about it. It's germane to the subject of this thread. If folks were inserting their views into threads not related to TBP, then I could see your point...

Seanchai

Actually it happens here a lot. A poster just started a thread about tBP which wasn't well received because folks thought that this subject should be allowed to die.

This thread really wasn't about mod policy until the Pundit decided to distort what Cessna had said and explicitly state that Cessna was here because he'd had enough of tBP on another thread and on his bolg. He then went on to encourage others who felt the "same" way to "defect" here. Cessna decided that this site wasn't worth the trouble and left. The thread then became about the Pundit's dickish behaviour and whether Cessna deserved special dispensation.

In fact I think - I can't bother looking through this wreck - that mod policy wasn't even brought up except in passing and even then without the usual rancor.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HinterWeltWhether he owns the board is not relevant as far as I can tell. He acted the inappropriately IMO. I called him on it.

Actually if I'm not mistaken calling folks out on their BS is one of the sanctioned (by the Pundit) ground rules of this place.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RThis thread really wasn't about mod policy until the Pundit decided to distort what Cessna had said and explicitly state that Cessna was here because he'd had enough of tBP on another thread and on his bolg.

It wasn't about moderation policy per se, but it was about Cessna, the TBP and him no longer being a moderator there. It's not like we're wildly off topic talking about things related to Cessna and him being a moderator at TBP.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiYou said you were trying to change his behavior ("For me, it is not about Cessna but trying to potty train Pundit"). If he is the board owner, it seems to me to be like telling someone what to do in their own home.

And it's not as if he didn't lay out the ground rules for what was acceptable behavior in his home...

Seanchai

And that is not how it is to me. It is not his home. It is a public square to me. Pundit happens to be the organizer of the RPG talks in this corner. I would do likewise if such an organizer were acting in a similar manner.

I am still of the opinion that his "ownership" of the site is not an issue. He may act inappropriately anyway.

Bill

Quote from: SeanchaiIt wasn't about moderation policy per se, but it was about Cessna, the TBP and him no longer being a moderator there. It's not like we're wildly off topic talking about things related to Cessna and him being a moderator at TBP.

True, but here's the thing Seanchai, a lot of folks who like this place are getting tired of the Pundit defining this place as the "freedom from oppresive BP mods" haven. Sooner or later it was bound to happen. Just as tBP is successful despite the mods (IMO), so does this place thrive in spite of the Pundit's dodgy rants .

I think folks (I sure am) are tired of this fued with tBP. My comments were directed in support of those who want this fued to end and are tired of the sometimes wankerish behaviour of the Pundit when it comes to tBP.

I was also commenting on the need for threads about tBP mod policy. Believe me I'm not sayin' that folks should not create them but just that I doubt they would receive a warm reception...which they would have in the early days...you know a couple of months ago We have short attention spans....

Regards,
David R

You know, I don't hate or dislike Cessna at all. I find something like that to be faintly unreasonable. As a user at RPG.net, I disagreed with the way the site was (is) heading, and he was a part of that. That said, it's the mods perogative. If they want to allow people to question their judgement and what have you, well, I think that's the right way to go in general.
Of course, given the amazing amount of nitpickery and general dickery, I'm not surprised it fostered such a siege mentality. The mods all dig in their heels and start to act like assholes to the users, even if they don't realize it. Not all of them, and not to the same extent, but it happens at some point.

Here, though, why should I get angry at him? He's not a mod. The only issues I'd have with him is if he acts like a jerk, and then I'll just ignore him. (as opposed to ILing him, which I haven't done ever, yet)

Still, did he really think nobody was going to call him on his stint at RPG.net? It's like a bouncer going to a club off-hours that possessed a bunch of people he booted. He's probably not going to be popular. I'm surprised he didn't see it coming. What he got was actually fairly mild, but I'm not surprised it didn't appeal to him.

Quote from: SeanchaiPundit "lashing out" at Cessna was far, far from surprising. Cessna and Pundit have history. Cessna and a few posters here have history. The moderators as a collective and a few posters here have history.

Also, Cessna's going from protected status to just another poster. While you can disagree (politely) with moderators on TBP, they're not just another board member. That's not the case here. Cessna no more or less protected than anyone.

Moreover, there's the role reversal. It used to be that Cessna was the authority and Pundit the regular joe. Now Pundit's the authority.

"Some say that you are no more fit to be Caesar than your nephew was!"
"I agree."
"Then what is the difference between you and Caligula?"
"He would NOT have agreed. And y-your head would be on a p-pike for having said so!"
(from Graves' I, Claudius)

In other words, the difference is that on this site, I'm not more protected than anyone either.  The benefits of inviolability that Cessna took upon himself as part of the RPG.net modclique do not exist for me here, because I have chosen that they will not.  So its not a case of the shoe having been on the other foot, and his having been unable to handle being in an inferior power position.
He was, in fact, on an equal footing, and apparently still decided he couldn't handle it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: JongWKYou do understand that you chased off a gamer who came here to talk about games, right? Congratulations. /sarcasm

I have said far worse things to slightly better people. If he chose to run, its his choice. I didn't "chase" anyone.

Maybe he spent too long in Rpg.net but if he really wanted to turn around now, after stating that RPG.net had become a place "so inane and boring that he hated it", he should have argued with me about it. Not run off because here there would be no mod coming to stop me from being the big bad man who actually calls him on his crap.

That's why this place isn't boring and inane.

RPGPundit

Quote from: David RCessna, you made the right decision. I hope you change your mind, but honestly if you're going to have to put up with some folks distorting what you say and fuckers who keep trying to settle old scores, you're better off some place else.

Regards,
David R

Thing is, I was defending him against others on here, when he'd stated that RPG.net had become a "boring and inane" place, I thought "FUCK, yes! Awesome! Cessna has finally seen the light of reason, and now welcome aboard and more power to you!".
Only now, he turns back around.
And on top of that, you guys act like I just kicked the living shit out of Gandhi or something; like this fucker should be treated with kid gloves or something, just to have him around?
If he wants to be here to talk RPGs, that's great. But if he chooses to start talking about his experience at RPG.net, then he'd better get ready for some reactions for good and ill; and if he suddenly flip-flops on it, then all the moreso.
It doesn't mean he's going to be banned on here. I'm not going to speak in my modvoice and write in red lettering and suspend him, I'm just going to accuse him of hypocrisy. He doesn't have to run away like little girly-man; he could have responded, or he could have ignored me and just gone back to posting on the gaming forums of this site. Its not like I'd have gone onto the "other games" forum and interrupted his thread about Memoir '44 or something to keep going with the argument.

RPGPundit

Quote from: JimBobOzThat was the thing that struck me about the "why did you join therpgsite?" thread. I was the only one who just said, "I came to talk about roleplaying." Everyone else's reply was "to be able to call people on their bullshit!" or "dedication to brutal intellectual honesty" and stuff like that. For many, it seems to be - as you say - some kind of political act.

I'm here on therpgsite for the same reason I was on rpg.net, or sjgames forum, or Masters of Luck and Death (HeroQuest) or a host of others - I like to talk about roleplaying.

I like to talk about other things, too, of course - but there are other forums for those.

For a guy who is constantly harping about how he "just came here to talk about roleplaying", you sure spend an Imperial Shitload of your time on here talking about anything but...

RPGPundit