http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1717934-1,00.html

These presidents always seem to mellow out in their last year in office.  I remember his dad passed some very aggressive prescription drug legislation in his last year that went against all the lobbying efforts of big pharma but very much towards common sense and good government (I can't remember what the actual legislation was, though) and Clinton went into Kosovo in his last year as well.

Too bad he had to be such an asshole and fuck shit up so badly for the 7 years before hand.  But you get what you pay for.

Well, good for him.  Really.  But as Walker says...

QuoteToo bad he had to be such an asshole and fuck shit up so badly for the 7 years before hand.

I trust that the enduring legacy of the nastiness that we're reaping from those years won't be misattributed in the warm, fuzzy feelings.

Also, pertaining to the article, can I say that I really like Bob Geldof?  I mean, I'm not sure that I'd really like him as a person, but I enjoyed his directness, and the dialogue he reported having with the President.

!i!

The article/interview also nicely pointed out that it is possible to massively disagree with someone - and yet still be friendly with them and find areas in common.


- Ed C.

Great article.  Good policies in Africa.  Love to have a beer and shoot the shit with G.W.  I can do without him otherwise.

Quote from: walkerpThese presidents always seem to mellow out in their last year in office.  .

Its statements like this one that make me feel most people don't actually READ the articles prior to posting. Click link? Sure. Skim? Maybe. Read? hardly.

One thing that was repeated constantly in the article was this isn't 'something new' he just started but a project that goes back to the first years of his presidency.

Completely ignored and forgotten by the press and the public unless, for some reason, you are intimate with Africa.


Not trying to call you out, walker, but 90% of the time when I read a thread like this (starts with a link to an article) it seems half the posters feel the need to make some witty 'observant' comment that actually is not actually relevant to what the article said.  I find it makes meaningful discussion of the article difficult.

Of course... I don't really feel much need to discuss the article itself, but rather the lemming like 'must post' behavior that seems to follow these things.

Well, no one is all of one thing or another, especially when it comes to Presidents.  People might revile Bush for some of his decisions, but while there are places in the world his name will be cursed, there are places he's a hero.  I won't hazard a guess at the split on that.

I will say, out of the few still-living presidents, though I've not agreed with all he's done (far from it, in some cases), he's the one I'd most like to sit down, have a beer, and watch the game with.  I'd watch it with Carter, but I have the feeling he'd just start bitching about Israel during the score updates.  And start inviting folks over without my permission.

I read the entire article and I was aware of Bush's Africa policy.  It's just that that policy has been ramped up, both in PR and actual money and implementation in the last month.  Also, this is the first time he actually went to Africa.  And Geldorf is really amping it up because it serves his cause.  I'd like to hear what he really thinks of Bush and his policies.

I think it's important to point out that nowhere does the writer mention the stipulations on Bush's Africa/AIDS policy regarding condoms & other forms of birth control.

The fact that W won't support efforts that advocate birth control is plain stupid...much like his other abstinence-only policies.

Yep.  Huge issue.  I can't believe I forgot that.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Quote from: dsivisI think it's important to point out that nowhere does the writer mention the stipulations on Bush's Africa/AIDS policy regarding condoms & other forms of birth control.

I think Geldof is also a pragmatist in terms of getting as much done in Africa as the social and political climate will allow.  The strong influences of the Roman Catholic church and deeply ingrained social customs have provided long-standing obstacles to birth control for many decades.  They're a thorny issue completely aside from Bush's moral and social stumping points.

!i!

The first failing of the article is that it's a European and an American discussing what's good for Africans. That really epitomises the whole problem; locals generally know what's good for them. You would not like a foreign organisation, however generous, coming in and telling you how to develop your town. You'd want them to consult with you. There's a real lack of talking to the locals in these programs.

Next, while the policies mentioned in the article are laudable, it's notable for what it fails to mention; for example US price supports of its own agricultural products which shut African products out of the world market, and even out of the domestic market, so that Africans get driven off their own land - much the way Mexican corn farmers were by US corn farming subsidies. US law also gives support to predatory monopolistic practices by US companies, so that for example coffee companies can screw the locals on coffee bean purchases.

Sometimes, you can help people overall more by not spending money (eg, cutting funding to US farmers would help African farmers a lot) than by spending money. When you ask them what they need, that's one of the things they say - to be able to grow and make stuff and sell it at a fair price.

There's an old joke which is both racist and anti-racist. "How do you stop a nigger from drowning? Take your foot off his neck."

...there he goes again....


- Ed

I voted for GWB twice, don't agree with all of his beliefs or policies, but I really hate it when he doesn't get credit for _any_ of the good he's done/that has been done during his term.  The same thing happens when people talk about Clinton who I didn't vote for.  He gets blamed for all the bad things that happened from 92 to 2000, while any good he did either gets overlooked, glossed over, or attributed mostly to others.  I know it's all part of politics, especially in an election year, but what ever happened to giving credit where credit is due?

Quote from: dsivisI think it's important to point out that nowhere does the writer mention the stipulations on Bush's Africa/AIDS policy regarding condoms & other forms of birth control.

The fact that W won't support efforts that advocate birth control is plain stupid...much like his other abstinence-only policies.

Because all those condom policies before Bush worked so much better, right?

The point was I believe that he was the FIRST president to really put the money where his mouth was regarding funds and efforts to help Africa. But of course, since he's not doing it YOUR way, its all a sham and wrong. I mean, just because millions of people are being helped and saved with medicines and things as simple as mosquito nets, it doesn't matter because he doesn't agree with handing out condoms. Here, you've earned this:

:rollbarf:

Asshat.

You too, Kyle - I'm with you, we should just stop spending any of our hard earned tax dollars on the Dark Continent and leave them to their own devices. Clearly, those savages are more happy killing each other with machete's than trying to rise above the tribal level of civilization, and after all, we're only exploiting the poor benighted souls - children that they are. Yes, no more funds for Africa, no more mosquito nets, no more food -Evil Corporate Food - because Corporations always exploit and lead to evil! (How's that backyard garden going, Mr. Aaron?), no more medicines... after all, that's what the witch doctors are for. Yep, you're right! Here, you earned this one too:

:rollbarf:

Some fuckers would complain if they were hung with a new rope. Jesus.