Disney+ drops the latest Star Wars streaming series, AHSOKA, on Tuesday night, August 22nd, 2023.
They've done a last-minute switch in the release date. Instead of dropping early on Wednesday morning, the show is now releasing Tuesday at 9 PM EDT, and the premiere will be the first two episodes.
The short version: former Jedi padawan Ahsoka Tano from
The Clone Wars,
Star Wars Rebels, and cameos on
The Mandalorian and
Book of Boba Fett, gets her own live action series. She will be joined by characters from Star Wars Rebels and The Clone Wars, including Hera Syndulla and Sabine Wren.
Eckhardt's Ladder has a spoiler-free introduction to the show on their YouTube channel:
Please hold off on spoilers until the Saturday after a new episode is released.
Luke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gpXMGit4P8)warm on this one. I'm going to wait to hear all yall's opinions before watching.
Didn't Ahsoka die during an episode of Rebels? I seem to remember a scene where she is about to fight Vader and then tells the other Rebel characters to run and the scene ends with her holding of Vader (and, presumably, dying in the process).
Star Wars has really embraced their multiple continuities, with characters from the TV show never being mentioned in the movies, but existing is a strange alternate reality where nothing they do matters to the main movie plot.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on August 21, 2023, 11:18:21 AM
Didn't Ahsoka die during an episode of Rebels?
Did not die on screen, presumed dead but disappeared into the force instead and has since reappeared.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on August 21, 2023, 11:18:21 AM
Didn't Ahsoka die during an episode of Rebels? I seem to remember a scene where she is about to fight Vader and then tells the other Rebel characters to run and the scene ends with her holding of Vader (and, presumably, dying in the process).
Star Wars has really embraced their multiple continuities, with characters from the TV show never being mentioned in the movies, but existing is a strange alternate reality where nothing they do matters to the main movie plot.
Like Wisithir said, Ahsoka didn't die. She was rescued by Ezra Bridger, who pulled her from doom using a force magic construct called The World Between Worlds, and set her onto a different path. This happens in Season 4 Episode 13 of
Star Wars Rebels. Rebels really pushed hard into Force mysticism towards the end of its run.
The writers of Star Wars Rebels did a good job of writing their force sensitive characters out of the ROTJ timeline. Kanaan Jarus/Caleb Dume dies saving his team, Ahsoka disappears into mystery, and may have time-jumped past the events of ROTJ, and Ezra Bridger is taken so far away as to be out of the picture (pun intended).
First two episodes have dropped, 57 and 44 minutes long.
Not an instant home run for me, but still quite solid. A lot of personal history of the main characters is sketched out. There is more character depth than in Star Wars Rebels. There are conflicts between our heroes that occurred in the time between the end of Rebels and the beginning of Ahsoka that are not yet fully revealed.
It's a bit of a slow burn, but the pace is deliberate, and the show moves forward steadily. More like Andor than the quicker pace of The Mandalorian or Rebels, which I wasn't expecting.
Spoilers on Saturday, have a good week everyone.
I watched it with a group of friends and we're all Star Wars fans. We all enjoyed both episodes! I hope it holds up throughout the run!
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 20, 2023, 11:17:07 PM
Luke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gpXMGit4P8)warm on this one. I'm going to wait to hear all yall's opinions before watching.
This one has a better rolling start than Andor. It's good.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 20, 2023, 11:17:07 PM
Luke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gpXMGit4P8)warm on this one. I'm going to wait to hear all yall's opinions before watching.
One minor spoiler or two:
Rosario Dawson is too old for some action scenes and they should have used digital magic on those
Light Sabers still don't kill you as per the Disney Wars movies
Fuck this shit and fuck Disney, if I wasn't watching it for free with my friend Jack Sparrow I would cancel my inexistent subscription.
Well, I figured I'd give the first eppy a go. I don't know if it's my system, but DisneyPlus just chokes and dies when I try to load the episode. I had this issue with The Mandalorian/Book of Boba Fett too. I don't have it with Paramount Plus.
Finally got it to load. Watched episode one. As a fan of Rebels, (I need to finish the series, but I liked what I saw of it) I liked this very much. Some solid Star Wars themes.
It's really criminal that Clone Wars and Rebels had to put in the heavy lifting of making Anakin's fall more palatable. the Prequels really botched so much.
Ahsoka really feels like part of the films. The Padawan who walked away, and was never there to back up her Master when he needed her. Rosario is doing a fine job portraying that.
Having said that, I'm dreading them fucking this up. I feel that with every Star Wars product after the Sequels.
So far, so good.
Quote from: Thornhammer on August 23, 2023, 08:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 20, 2023, 11:17:07 PM
Luke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gpXMGit4P8)warm on this one. I'm going to wait to hear all yall's opinions before watching.
This one has a better rolling start than Andor. It's good.
Yeah, Andor just sorta plodded along.
C'mon, nobody?
Okay I'll go.
I really dig the bad guys in this one. Not so much the Nightsister (she's fine, just not as good as the other two), but Baylan Skoll and...wassername. I'm calling her Tay'Lor Swift. I don't think they are Sith. Orange lightsabers and Swiftie has the padawan braid. I like that they tried the subtle approach before going apeshit.
I liked the Phantom II doing the duck-dodge-dip-dive-dodge bit and Chopper getting pissed off about Hera fucking with his stuff.
Speaking of Hera, wow that's a strikingly pretty woman, even covered in green.
I see a lot of bitching about Sabine's lightsaber stab being nonlethal. That was a precision strike. If they wanted her dead, it would have been a flick of the wrist to make it happen. Probably. Fuck, we've seen Darth Maul survive getting bisected by one.
Anyway. I liked Andor - it was different. It didn't have Jedi. But it is nice to get back to some familiar characters, and dammit I love lightsabers. I liked the first two episodes of this.
Quote from: Thornhammer on August 26, 2023, 11:14:04 PM
C'mon, nobody?
Okay I'll go.
I really dig the bad guys in this one. Not so much the Nightsister (she's fine, just not as good as the other two), but Baylan Skoll and...wassername. I'm calling her Tay'Lor Swift. I don't think they are Sith. Orange lightsabers and Swiftie has the padawan braid. I like that they tried the subtle approach before going apeshit.
I liked the Phantom II doing the duck-dodge-dip-dive-dodge bit and Chopper getting pissed off about Hera fucking with his stuff.
Speaking of Hera, wow that's a strikingly pretty woman, even covered in green.
I see a lot of bitching about Sabine's lightsaber stab being nonlethal. That was a precision strike. If they wanted her dead, it would have been a flick of the wrist to make it happen. Probably. Fuck, we've seen Darth Maul survive getting bisected by one.
Anyway. I liked Andor - it was different. It didn't have Jedi. But it is nice to get back to some familiar characters, and dammit I love lightsabers. I liked the first two episodes of this.
Qui Gonn says hi.
Sorry, I got sidelined by real world stuff yesterday.
I don't mind Sabine surviving, I don't think they're nerfing lightsabers. I mean, ask Captain Hayle of the prison ship, or all of those HK droids.
In fact, I think it was a bold stroke to have a major character lose a lightsaber duel right out of the gate.
I don't think Shin Hati deliberately spared Sabine, though she may have been toying with her somewhat. Sabine just got lucky that she was hit well off-center, and received immediate medical care. I think Shin Hati sensed Ahsoka heading her way, took the win, and left with the map.
One thing I really liked was the view of Corellia we got. Sunny shipyards, with none of the overbearing brutalist tones that we saw in Solo. It just felt more like Star Wars.
One thing that didn't work all that well was Baylan Skoll's corridor battle. It was clearly meant to evoke Darth Vader in Rogue One, but it falls far short of that. It's too neat, too well-lit, and too bloodless.
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
People online are going crazy for Marrok, the Inquisitor who fights Ahsoka at the Corellian Shipyards.
There has been speculation that he is everyone from Ezra Bridger to a Luke Skywalker clone.
I think he's just a skilled henchman played by a talented performer. I don't see Ezra or Luke wanting to use an Inquisitor saber.
In general, though, the villains in this show are pretty well done, and we haven't even gotten to see Thrawn yet.
Episode 3 tonight at 9pm EST.
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 27, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
And if you actually watched star Wars you'd know light sabers are hot enough to melt metal, I imagine she could also survive the same wound if caused by the torch they use to cut concrete no?
Truth is she survives because the show says so, plot armor.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 27, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
And if you actually watched star Wars you'd know light sabers are hot enough to melt metal, I imagine she could also survive the same wound if caused by the torch they use to cut concrete no?
If the torch flames were already jetting out the other side there's not going to be much heat transfer and the wound was pretty much instantly cauterized.
I find it less believable that Qui-Gon died of his gut stab than Sabine surviving where a plasma jet shot her clean through.
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2023, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 27, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
And if you actually watched star Wars you'd know light sabers are hot enough to melt metal, I imagine she could also survive the same wound if caused by the torch they use to cut concrete no?
If the torch flames were already jetting out the other side there's not going to be much heat transfer and the wound was pretty much instantly cauterized.
I find it less believable that Qui-Gon died of his gut stab than Sabine surviving where a plasma jet shot her clean through.
Unlike the torch I was talking about (which would cook everyhthing around the wound before exiting your body) a lightsaber is hot up until it reaches the hilt. So it's radiating thousands of F/C degrees inside your body for the whole time it's inside, even having the humanoid body be as poor at conducting heat as the human body it would mean you'll get cooked inside in a huge radious around the wound.
IDGAF one way or the other but your world has to be consistent internally for me to buy into it. Disney Wars isn't.
Episode Three has dropped. It is short, but it has some genuine moments of wonder in it.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2023, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 27, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
And if you actually watched star Wars you'd know light sabers are hot enough to melt metal, I imagine she could also survive the same wound if caused by the torch they use to cut concrete no?
If the torch flames were already jetting out the other side there's not going to be much heat transfer and the wound was pretty much instantly cauterized.
I find it less believable that Qui-Gon died of his gut stab than Sabine surviving where a plasma jet shot her clean through.
Unlike the torch I was talking about (which would cook everyhthing around the wound before exiting your body) a lightsaber is hot up until it reaches the hilt. So it's radiating thousands of F/C degrees inside your body for the whole time it's inside, even having the humanoid body be as poor at conducting heat as the human body it would mean you'll get cooked inside in a huge radious around the wound.
And yet Qui-Gonn only had a hole burned in him, instead of being cooked alive with melted and burning clothes. Not even a little singed except precisely where the blade passed through.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 30, 2023, 05:18:29 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2023, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 29, 2023, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 27, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
Weapons are only as deadly as the script requires.
And if you actually read up on forensics, the results of injuries in real life can be pretty incredibly random. There are people who dropped at the sound of a gunshot that failed to hit them, while others are shot through the heart and run away.
And if you actually watched star Wars you'd know light sabers are hot enough to melt metal, I imagine she could also survive the same wound if caused by the torch they use to cut concrete no?
If the torch flames were already jetting out the other side there's not going to be much heat transfer and the wound was pretty much instantly cauterized.
I find it less believable that Qui-Gon died of his gut stab than Sabine surviving where a plasma jet shot her clean through.
Unlike the torch I was talking about (which would cook everyhthing around the wound before exiting your body) a lightsaber is hot up until it reaches the hilt. So it's radiating thousands of F/C degrees inside your body for the whole time it's inside, even having the humanoid body be as poor at conducting heat as the human body it would mean you'll get cooked inside in a huge radious around the wound.
And yet Qui-Gonn only had a hole burned in him, instead of being cooked alive with melted and burning clothes. Not even a little singed except precisely where the blade passed through.
Indeed, for the blade to radiate that amount of heat to be true (i.e. radiates enough heat to cook internal organs by mere proximity until you reach the hilt), then just holding a lightsaber in guard position near your face should be inflicting severe burns to their users.
All evidence from even the pre-Disney films is that lightsabers only transfer heat to precisely where the blade is in contact with it. Even Qui-Gon's door stab was just melting away metal. Any peripheral heating there was from transfer from the metal heated by the saber.
The only additional damage from a puncture wound like Sabine got would be if the saber was then moved side-to-side as it had already vaporized all the flesh inside the wound (and cauterized it) and the blade was sticking unimpeded out of her back (so all the energy wasn't being absorbed and cooking her innards).
It's sorta like how many times an armor piercing round will do less damage to a soft target because it's design to penetrate hard targets means it tends to just fly straight through a body with little energy transfer, just a wound channel (as compared to something like a hollow point that is designed to flatten and maximize energy transfer to a soft target).
Again, I find it less believable Qui-Gon died from his wound* than that Sabine survived hers.**
*what it vaporized is everything... that Qui-Gon lived long enough to say last words to Obi-Wan makes it odd that Star Wars medicine couldn't have saved him because it wasn't instantly fatal... the real reason is plot, but best guess trying to explain it is Maul's strike grazed the heart enough to impair but not stop function and he went into shock with medical help simply too far away to stabilize him in time).
** Sabine's hit was lower and to the side. The scar shown would have gone through the intestines and maybe grazed a kidney. That's not even necessarily fatal in modern times, much less when there's someone with an already running starship right there to rush you to a hospital only minutes away, you're going to get priority treatment as a hero of the planet and you have Star Wars medical magic.
Shin Hati doesn't leave Sabine impaled on her lightsaber to get cooked like the blast doors in Phantom Menace. She stabs Sabine with the tip of the saber, then withdraws the lightsaber immediately so that she can resume her defense against Sabine's saber.
She doesn't run Sabine through to the hilt, which Darth Maul definitely did to Qui-Gon.
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 30, 2023, 08:09:31 AM
*what it vaporized is everything... that Qui-Gon lived long enough to say last words to Obi-Wan makes it odd that Star Wars medicine couldn't have saved him because it wasn't instantly fatal... the real reason is plot, but best guess trying to explain it is Maul's strike grazed the heart enough to impair but not stop function and he went into shock with medical help simply too far away to stabilize him in time).
Considering it was a dead-center stab, I'd think Maul put it through Qui-Gonn's spine. Sabine's wound was noticeably off-center.
---
Welp, I haven't been able to get episode 2 to load for a day or two now. I dunno what it is with Disney+ and my computer...
Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 30, 2023, 10:00:05 AM
Welp, I haven't been able to get episode 2 to load for a day or two now. I dunno what it is with Disney+ and my computer...
Sorry you are having so much trouble watching your subscription. Could it be your antivirus or adblock that Disney+ doesn't like?
The third one has me raising some eyebrows.
The "really? C'mon..." kind.
Yeah, the show continues to be a bit slow and uninspired. Asohka is, I don't know, too serene and self assured. I get that she's not a kid anymore but where's that fire that she had? I'm not sold on Sabine as a Jedi apprentice either.
Spoilers for Ahsoka Episode 3 from this point.
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Sabine is continuing her "Jedi" training, and once again, Ahsoka is trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. Sabine, to her credit, sticks with it, and seems to be learning to use the senses she does have to a greater degree. But why isn't she training in her armor?
We switch to a holoconference between Hera and 5 New Republic senators. The theme of the New Republic sucking is reinforced. I hate that meme. It just seems lazy. Why does the New Republic suck? Are the wrong people in charge? Are they just useless pacifists? What happened to the people that won the Rebellion?
Also, why does a General need the approval of the Senate to investigate threats within New Republic territory?
If she can't send a task force, she should at least have the authority to send out a patrol.
At the very least, there are known criminals and traitors operating on Seatos, possessing high-grade stolen military hardware, and that should be pursued as a police/security action.
It's nice seeing Hera's son Jacen. His father was a Jedi, Kanan Jarrus, formerly Caleb Dume.
And as soon as they detected comms being jammed across an entire system, they should have turned around, gotten clear, and reported the fact. That alone should have justified a New Republic response.
Ahsoka trying to fight the bad guys in a spacesuit was ridiculous, but it is typical bad guy logic to engage her on her terms instead of just shooting her ship out from under her.
On the plus side, those purgills looked awesome, even better than the ones in Mando season 3.
And, ultimately, our heroes prevailed and got the info on the villains' operation.
I also liked that Ahsoka was wise enough to defer to Sabine during the dogfight, and that they became a lot more effective that way.
My hunch with Sabine's training is to go back towards George's original idea that being a Jedi was more about understanding your connection to the world around you (a religious principle) than manifesting cool powers.
The old Jedi had lost their way in essentially closing off their religion to anyone below a certain Midichlorian count (there's apparently something out there that give the Midi counts of various Star Wars characters with many known for their luck having much higher counts than others (though still below the threshold the old Jedi used). The droid is basically the voice of the old Jedi Order while Asohka wants to try something new.
For example, I believe Han Solo had a count of 5000-6000 whereas most people had under 2500 and a potential Jedi recruit needed at least 8000 to be considered (Anakin's was over 20,000). My hunch is Sabine probably falls around the range of Han Solo (and probably quite a few other non-Jedi SW protagonists do as well) and so while she'll never likely be able to move a cup (or if does eventually get there it would take a LOT more effort), she could certainly become more in tune with her surroundings (how much is an open question, but I predict it will be enough to take out Tay-Lor Swift in a rematch).
Essentially, Force sensitivity isn't a binary, its a range, and a lot of people could gain some benefit from learning to focus the sensitivity they do have.
ETA: another interesting theory is that Filoni is try to make Sabine into an "anti-Rey" as part of his ongoing feud with KK. So instead of everything coming easy and never failing without training, Sabine is going to need all the training she can get and is going to struggle for every victory (making them feel well-earned), thus proving that the reason Rey failed was she was a shit character in a shittier storh, not because she was a woman.
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 02, 2023, 09:45:43 AM
We switch to a holoconference between Hera and 5 New Republic senators. The theme of the New Republic sucking is reinforced. I hate that meme. It just seems lazy. Why does the New Republic suck? Are the wrong people in charge? Are they just useless pacifists? What happened to the people that won the Rebellion?
Yep. I wasn't fond of the idea in Mandalorian. It creates some drama in that the heroes have to take matters into their own hands, but it makes the Rebellion seem like a failure, in that their New Republic is a boondoggle and hardly worth the trouble of having fought the Empire.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 02, 2023, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 02, 2023, 09:45:43 AM
We switch to a holoconference between Hera and 5 New Republic senators. The theme of the New Republic sucking is reinforced. I hate that meme. It just seems lazy. Why does the New Republic suck? Are the wrong people in charge? Are they just useless pacifists? What happened to the people that won the Rebellion?
Yep. I wasn't fond of the idea in Mandalorian. It creates some drama in that the heroes have to take matters into their own hands, but it makes the Rebellion seem like a failure, in that their New Republic is a boondoggle and hardly worth the trouble of having fought the Empire.
Honestly, the most interesting way to go from a setting standpoint would be to just follow the Empire with a Dark Ages-like fracturing into a bunch of regional powers. The biggest issue Stars Wars has struggled with as it aged in the EU is the perpetual need for new galactic scale conflicts that undermined the victory of over the Empire.
An Imperial collapse into a bunch of minor states means that at any given time you could mean that 998 of a thousand realms are peaceful at any given time while still having conflicts worthy of being called wars raging across dozens of worlds (of millions).
That would have made the rebellion worthwhile by devolving power at least one step closer to the people.
Of course; all of that tries to pretend the whole concept of interstellar civilizations makes a lick of sense. We can't even achieve a global government (nor would we WANT one), based on population growth rates our population level will probably reach equilibrium by mid-Century on its own (if the globalist idiocracy doesn't get a bunch of people killed first) and the resources of our star system could support said population indefinitely.
Odds are that anyone looking to leave for another planet isn't looking to bring a bloated government along for the ride and is, instead looking for freedom from the governments of their homeworld.
Once you've got the ease of Star Wars hyperdrives literally the only reason for any sort of multi-system government is moral busybodies thinking they know better how everyone should live and sociopaths exploiting the result for their own benefit.
I like the idea that the New Republic is kind of a victim of the Rebellion's success.
The time period we are seeing in Mando/Boba/Ahsoka should be a prolonged postwar economic boom (think the 1990s). The Empire is gone, and all the capital they were siphoning off to build Star Destroyers and Death Stars is now freed up to invest in new directions and business opportunities.
It's basically raining capital.
But for the New Republic, that means that everyone from the Rebellion that has an iota of enlightened self-interest is going home and going into business. (I like to think of Lando and Han going into business together, running a shipping company and getting rich.) So they are left with the ones who are not that smart, or lack ambition.
There's also the possibility that the New Republic is taking on one or more megaprojects that are tying up tons of people and resources. I like the idea that Leia is spearheading a project to rebuild the planet Alderaan. Because as a starfaring civilization, they can, and also because it rubs it into the Empire's face that anything they can destroy, the New Republic can rebuild.
Given the lack of gravity, can someone explain to me How The Fuck did Ahsoka do the gymnastics on top of her spaceship?
Also: Space Whales? Seriously?
Being star wars the answer is either
a: Theres gravity inducers on the hull.
or
b: Ahsoka was using the Force.
or
c: The writers didnt care.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 03, 2023, 03:21:47 PM
Given the lack of gravity, can someone explain to me How The Fuck did Ahsoka do the gymnastics on top of her spaceship?
Also: Space Whales? Seriously?
Almost as silly as giant space slugs living in asteroids. :) Or sound in space. Or space fighters that fly like airplanes.
Star Wars lives in the same space as Flash Gordon. Star Wars hides it better, but real world physics takes a back seat to cool imagery.
There's probably a good middle ground, but different writers and directors are gonna have different ideas about where that is.
The bad guys need to change the batteries in their fighters, those lasers were about as effective as shining a flashlight.
Quote from: Thornhammer on September 03, 2023, 09:29:44 PM
The bad guys need to change the batteries in their fighters, those lasers were about as effective as shining a flashlight.
Someone also needs to explain them that a dogfight isn't melee combat, no need to get in range of your enemie's ONLY weapon (lightsabers), just blast them from a distance.
Also don't attack from the same point FFS.
Quote from: Omega on September 03, 2023, 04:38:22 PM
Being star wars the answer is either
a: Theres gravity inducers on the hull.
or
b: Ahsoka was using the Force.
or
c: The writers didnt care.
4. Tech in her spacesuit boots. Magnets, tractor beams, whatever.
It was silly, and the bad guys should have just stuck to what was working and shot her ship out from under her.
Episode 4 dropped tonight, and I really enjoyed it. Not what I expected.
If you are confused by the ending, you may want to watch Star Wars Rebels S04 E13. Though you should watch tonight's episode of Ahsoka first.
Full spoilers Saturday.
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 05, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
Episode 4 dropped tonight, and I really enjoyed it. Not what I expected.
Kick ass. Didn't feature it tonight on Stationary Bike Thee-ater, but will tomorrow.
WE ARE GO FOR SPOILERS ON AHSOKA EPISODE FOUR.
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Ahsoka S1 E4: Fallen Jedi
Sabine and Huyang are repairing Ahsoka's ship. It's not going well, they have no power or comms.
I'm not sure what good comms would do them, since the whole system was being jammed. On the other hand, with their ship grounded, getting the word out may be the only productive thing they can do.
I'm guessing that the baddies turned off the jamming when they sent the HKs out to search for Ahsoka and company, so that the guard droids would be able to coordinate their search and report in.
While we see the bad guys using the ancient planetarium with the key, Sabine had been able to get the map to work on her workbench back on Lothal. Is there a reason for the heroes to even know about the existence of the ancient planetarium?
It's odd that Huyang doesn't have a droid name. He is ancient, though, it's possible he predates the naming convention.
Do the low numbers on droid names indicate they are a recent thing, or do droids have serial numbers in the billions in addition to their given names? (I know George Lucas encountered a dialog track from American Graffiti labeled Reel 2 Dialog Track 2 being referred to as R2D2, and simply thought it would make a good name.)
Ahsoka and Sabine discuss the possibility that the map may need to be destroyed in order to prevent the baddies from getting it. Sabine is reluctant to commit to this plan.
I love the New Republic smock guy telling Hera she can't go off on her own. A stricter general might call that insubordination.
Pretty frickin awesome seeing the Ghost in live action again, as well as seeing Carson Teva, and hearing Hera referred to as Phoenix Squadron leader.
The countdown on the map is an effective way of ratcheting up the tension.
I like that Ahsoka seems to switch to single saber forms for fighting more skilled opponents. Two sabers are for mook-stomping.
Marrok tries the Inquisitor spinning double saber trick, but it's a cheap trick that will get you killed. It appears that Ahsoka simply timed it right, and sliced straight through his guard when the saber wasn't there. He blows up in a cloud of green gas. Not sure if that was the atmosphere escaping from his suit, or some kind of Nightsister magic, but regardless, he's dead. Clearly, he was neither Ezra nor the clone Luuke.
Diana Lee Inosanto has a lovely evil smirk as Morgan Elsbeth.
Ahsoka makes mistakes, the greatest of which is not listening to Huyang and splitting up the party. She also fails to heed her own advice and destroy the map at the first opportunity, grabbing it out of the energy beam in an attempt to take it intact, and in doing so, burning her left hand. As a result, she is unable to fight Baylan Skoll on an even footing, allowing him to overpower her and send her off the cliff.
It's also arguably a mistake to interrupt the map sequence, as she would have needed to complete the sequence herself in order to rescue Ezra. She would have been better off stealing a ride and trying to disable the Eye of Sion instead.
Does Baylan Skoll win by, ironically, being a better Jedi than Ahsoka? He wins the exchange of words with Ahsoka, he gets in her head, he seems to know his enemies better than they know him, his apprentice can actually use the Force, his dueling strategy is sound, and he maneuvers Ahsoka into fighting him where he is strongest. And he gets a solid win.
Lastly, Ahsoka wakes up in the World Between Worlds (see Star Wars Rebels Season 4 Episode 13), and Anakin Skywalker is there. Did Anakin bring her there? And which Anakin are we dealing with? Hayden Christensen does an admirable deadpan expression.
In terms of droids there are some with as many as six characters in canon; with 36 characters (26 letters, 10 digits) that gives something like only 2.17 billion combinations. My guess is droid names are mostly shortened serial numbers (or a model/variant code minus the serial number... so R2-series, variant D2, serial number xxxxxxxxxx; or R2-D2 for short).
Basically there's a lot of R2-D2's out there... just like there are a lot of people named John Smith's out there.
As to Anakin, dedicated fans have noted that Anakin is wearing the black trimmed saber he used as Vader, so my guess would be this is Anakin's Force Ghost.
There's been years of speculation that Filoni would use the World Between Worlds to undo the Sequel Trilogy (starting with the very logo itself when announced resembling the appearance of structures in that realm). But I think instead (probably because the Mouse won't let him) he's going to write around it by moving most of the characters he cares about who didn't appear in the ST over to this new galaxy where he can just ignore the ST.
Quote from: Chris24601 on September 10, 2023, 08:40:11 AM
In terms of droids there are some with as many as six characters in canon; with 36 characters (26 letters, 10 digits) that gives something like only 2.17 billion combinations. My guess is droid names are mostly shortened serial numbers (or a model/variant code minus the serial number... so R2-series, variant D2, serial number xxxxxxxxxx; or R2-D2 for short).
Basically there's a lot of R2-D2's out there... just like there are a lot of people named John Smith's out there.
As to Anakin, dedicated fans have noted that Anakin is wearing the black trimmed saber he used as Vader, so my guess would be this is Anakin's Force Ghost.
There's been years of speculation that Filoni would use the World Between Worlds to undo the Sequel Trilogy (starting with the very logo itself when announced resembling the appearance of structures in that realm). But I think instead (probably because the Mouse won't let him) he's going to write around it by moving most of the characters he cares about who didn't appear in the ST over to this new galaxy where he can just ignore the ST.
Man, I wish I could get the episodes to load.
My opinion is that the best way to deal with the sequel trilogy and the worst of Disney Star Wars is to simply ignore it and let lack of exposure do the work of erasing it. Making it a part of some story isn't worth the time and effort.
*Edit*
Ah, the episodes are loading for me tonight and I'm getting caught up. I see what you were saying now.
I dunno. Leaving the galaxy means leaving the established SW universe behind. It's an idea, but it feels like an unsatisfying one.
Basically, we know what droid names are like. At least for civilian main character droids.
I think the Prequel era battle droids had a more serial-number like name.
We've also seen stormtroopers and former imperials using rank and number to refer to themselves in formal channels.
As for Anakin, we'll probably find out what's up by five minutes into the next episode. He's probably a force ghost, we'll see.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2023, 07:02:24 PM
My opinion is that the best way to deal with the sequel trilogy and the worst of Disney Star Wars is to simply ignore it and let lack of exposure do the work of erasing it. Making it a part of some story isn't worth the time and effort.
*Edit*
Ah, the episodes are loading for me tonight and I'm getting caught up. I see what you were saying now.
I dunno. Leaving the galaxy means leaving the established SW universe behind. It's an idea, but it feels like an unsatisfying one.
Yeah, the problem with the ST is it retroactively poisons the OT. Future projects pretending those films don't exist is like using Bondo to cover over a rusting car frame... the rot is still there eating away at the body.
It's also been subtly poisoning all the other projects because no matter how good they individually are, we all know it ends up with the ST crap (one reason I think Mando did okay was because he nor Grogu were referenced in the ST you could imagine them steering clear of all the ST's shit and having a happy ending).
Doing something in a new galaxy by carrying a few established characters over to it is analogous to buying a new car and taking the fuzzy dice from your beloved classic to put on the rearview mirror while leaving your classic to rot.
In the sense of being a science-fantasy story/transportation it does the job, buts it's not so much Star Wars/your classic car.
That's why, frankly, I think the "in universe retcon" holds so much appeal to so many people. Yeah, it's way more work than Bondo or buying a new car, but it actually fixes what's actually wrong with the franchise/vehicle (for those who, for whatever reason, love Rey... she could still exist in the new timeline; but the First Order/reborn Emperor would have never happened).
* * * *
Anyway, my prediction for next episode is Asohka will figure out how to commune with the space whales and use them to carry the rest of the heroes going on this exodus to the new galaxy.
I think one of the problems with the way they are handling Ahsoka is that they are treating the other characters as subordinate to her, which means Hera and Sabine can't speak openly as friends, and she can't let down her guard.
Making Sabine a padawan has just been a really bad idea.
Quote from: Chris24601 on September 11, 2023, 08:24:24 AM
That's why, frankly, I think the "in universe retcon" holds so much appeal to so many people. Yeah, it's way more work than Bondo or buying a new car, but it actually fixes what's actually wrong with the franchise/vehicle (for those who, for whatever reason, love Rey... she could still exist in the new timeline; but the First Order/reborn Emperor would have never happened).
My concern is that the people who made those sequels *cough*Kennedy*cough* are still at Lucasfilm/Disney, and even if they retconned the sequels, they could bring their terrible ideas over to the retconned continuity. Or start some crazy continuity fight where the two continuties intentionally conflict each other.
Hell, the "Remnant" time period is terribly hit or miss as it is.
Ep 3.
1. Please, never ever use percentages when reporting shields. That got so tiresome in Star Trek when they'd try to generate tension by... counting down percentages. Say "Shields are failing!" instead.
2. The space walk scene was fine to me. She did a space cartwheel and could easily have used the Force to nudge herself back towards the hull, and it wasn't overplayed since she did wind up detached and floating towards the end.
I'm enjoying it. It feels like Star Wars.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 12, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
I'm enjoying it. It feels like Star Wars.
ditto. it's good enough that i'm willing to overlook stuff i don't care for.
Episode 5 has dropped, and it is amazing.
More on Saturday.
*Shit. My sense of what day it is gets screwy because my schedule is weird. I keep thinking thursday is saturday. Nuked my comment until Sat.*
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 11, 2023, 08:38:57 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on September 11, 2023, 08:24:24 AM
That's why, frankly, I think the "in universe retcon" holds so much appeal to so many people. Yeah, it's way more work than Bondo or buying a new car, but it actually fixes what's actually wrong with the franchise/vehicle (for those who, for whatever reason, love Rey... she could still exist in the new timeline; but the First Order/reborn Emperor would have never happened).
My concern is that the people who made those sequels *cough*Kennedy*cough* are still at Lucasfilm/Disney, and even if they retconned the sequels, they could bring their terrible ideas over to the retconned continuity. Or start some crazy continuity fight where the two continuties intentionally conflict each other.
Hell, the "Remnant" time period is terribly hit or miss as it is.
You end up with retcon wars like in comics and why theres the misapplied joke of death being a revolving door. It isnt in comics, usually, it is really some new writer not liking something someone did and undoing it. I know a few Marvel writers who despised the sensless killing off of some sideline characters and just waited for a chance and undid it. And round and round.
Quote from: Omega on September 16, 2023, 06:58:38 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 11, 2023, 08:38:57 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on September 11, 2023, 08:24:24 AM
That's why, frankly, I think the "in universe retcon" holds so much appeal to so many people. Yeah, it's way more work than Bondo or buying a new car, but it actually fixes what's actually wrong with the franchise/vehicle (for those who, for whatever reason, love Rey... she could still exist in the new timeline; but the First Order/reborn Emperor would have never happened).
My concern is that the people who made those sequels *cough*Kennedy*cough* are still at Lucasfilm/Disney, and even if they retconned the sequels, they could bring their terrible ideas over to the retconned continuity. Or start some crazy continuity fight where the two continuties intentionally conflict each other.
Hell, the "Remnant" time period is terribly hit or miss as it is.
You end up with retcon wars like in comics and why theres the misapplied joke of death being a revolving door. It isnt in comics, usually, it is really some new writer not liking something someone did and undoing it. I know a few Marvel writers who despised the sensless killing off of some sideline characters and just waited for a chance and undid it. And round and round.
To be fair, Disney already retconned things once when they nuked the old EU and said "that never happened" with the promise their creative team would create something even better.
I still miss Mara Jade, Talon Carrde, Jaina, Jacen and Anakin Solo, Lowbacca, Tenel Ka Djo, Tahiri Veila, Jagged Fel, Ben Skywalker, and all the younger generation (even Vestara Khai) that Disney nuked for Rey Palpatine and the shells of characters that inhabited the Sequel Trilogy.
Other than the stuff that could have just been part of the old EU (Mando and Asohka and Andor/Rogue One could all be squint canoned into the EU if it preceded Heir to the Empire) there's nothing of value in the ST as compared to what they already retconned away.
So if they can do it once they could do it again. They won't. But they could.
Go for Spoilers on Episode 5.
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Quote from: Chris24601 on September 16, 2023, 08:12:52 AM
To be fair, Disney already retconned things once when they nuked the old EU and said "that never happened" with the promise their creative team would create something even better.
I still miss Mara Jade, Talon Carrde, Jaina, Jacen and Anakin Solo, Lowbacca, Tenel Ka Djo, Tahiri Veila, Jagged Fel, Ben Skywalker, and all the younger generation (even Vestara Khai) that Disney nuked for Rey Palpatine and the shells of characters that inhabited the Sequel Trilogy.
Other than the stuff that could have just been part of the old EU (Mando and Asohka and Andor/Rogue One could all be squint canoned into the EU if it preceded Heir to the Empire) there's nothing of value in the ST as compared to what they already retconned away.
So if they can do it once they could do it again. They won't. But they could.
I never found the EU to be all that compelling. For every good idea, there was something absolutely terrible, like the ysalamiri or the Yuuzhan Vong.
I think declaring them noncanon, and then selectively bringing back the good bits, has proven to be a good plan.
Frankly, I want to give the sequel trilogy the same treatment.
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
My comment from thursday, recycled!
I liked episode 5, except for the "dream sequence". I guess I understand if they were bringing people new to the franchise up to speed, but I found all the live action Clone Wars stuff a boring rehash.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Now please tell me how the fuck does the Force being EVERYWHERE mean you can be a Jedi WITHOUT being Force Sensitive? Meaning you can't use it.
Ahsoka Part Five - SHADOW WARRIOR
*****
I don't think we can say that Hayden Christensen was miscast any more. He was really good in this, and you could feel the Vader, and it felt right in a way the prequels never did. Maybe he had to grow into it, I don't know. But I thought the whole sequence worked amazingly well.
I also thought Ariana Greenblatt did a great job as young Ahsoka. I was blown away when I realized she was the live action version of Clone Wars Ahsoka. I didn't see that coming, and again, it worked.
They don't mention it by name, but the place that Ahsoka and Anakin are in is the World Between Worlds, a place outside of normal time and space, created by Force magic. It is an empty space defined by glowing arc lines that connect various loci that are doorways to the outside universe, usually at places that are strong in the Force. These loci contact the "real world" at different locations, and different points in time. People can also be brought into and exit the World Between Worlds without using the doorways, as the plot dictates. Ahsoka has been there before, as has Ezra Bridger.
Think of it as the path between the wardrobe and Narnia.
What was the point of the World Between Worlds segment? What was the big lesson Ahsoka learned? I think she was learning how to fight while at the same time, remaining centered, or if you prefer, based. She learns this from Anakin's negative example: he became lost, and ultimately lost himself. And in the end, Ahsoka turning Anakin's attack back on him is an expression of that state of being centered.
Was that the real Anakin, as a force ghost, or just a force vision like Luke saw on Dagobah? I lean towards the former, but I don't think it matters all that much.
Jacen Syndulla gets a couple nice scenes here. That armor on his right shoulder is a callback to his father, Kanan Jarrus.
You wonder why Jacen isn't a Padawan. But on the other hand, his mom is making sure he gets to have a childhood. I think that in the long run, he'll be better off for it.
That thing Hera is wearing that looks like the fifth side of a metal D6 is a rebel general's insignia. General Dodonna wore one in Star Wars Episode IV. So I guess she is a five star general, which is why she gets away with going off on this mission. She's the equivalent of a Douglas MacArthur, able to operate on her own initiative until she gets recalled by her government.
Did it bug anyone else that people were walking around with only the one half of the destroyed map sphere? I was like "where's the other half?"
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 16, 2023, 09:52:39 PM
Did it bug anyone else that people were walking around with only the one half of the destroyed map sphere? I was like "where's the other half?"
Just you. ;) I figured they only needed half to show it was FUBAR. Maybe the other half is in Ahsoka's ships glove compartment.
QuoteI don't think we can say that Hayden Christensen was miscast any more. He was really good in this, and you could feel the Vader, and it felt right in a way the prequels never did. Maybe he had to grow into it, I don't know. But I thought the whole sequence worked amazingly well.
For all that I defend the prequels, I think it was the writing that made the whole Anakin/Vader story weak. Some screws came loose in Lucas' mind sometime during Jedi, and it just got worse with the prequels.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"
I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"
Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Ask yourself.
Luke didn't "feel the force", until Obi Wan started training him. How did Luke learn to be a Jedi if he didn't "feel the force"?
I'll even give you a hint...
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Now please tell me how the fuck does the Force being EVERYWHERE mean you can be a Jedi WITHOUT being Force Sensitive? Meaning you can't use it.
Obi-Wan implied that even Han could have learned to use the Force if he'd let go of his preconceived notions.
The original intent with the Force was never magic bloodlines, it was straight up spiritualism/mysticism; some people by dint of personality or nature might have an easier time with it than others, and some by dint of the same may find it virtually impossible to let go of their preconceptions. (Not coincidentally, it's a lot easier to bring someone up in a mystic tradition from a very young age than when they've become set in their ways, which also matches Jedi practices).
Magic bloodlines came from fan interpretation and an RPG book needing to distinguish between character types (which also took Yoda's "Jedi use the Force for knowledge and defense, never to attack" far more literally than Yoda ever did in the films).
Similarly, I don't feel like looking for the particular interview from George, but I believe it's been clarified that midichlorians don't produce the Force, they congregate where the Force is already strong (basically they're a secondary indicator which is useful because it can be measured with a blood test).
Anyway, it seems we're going back more to GL's original intent. And I'm okay with that. In D&D terms; Force-wielders (everyone uses the Force to some extent; canonically Han's luck and piloting are low level Force traits akin to Anakin's piloting skills) are wizard/monks, not sorcerers.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
How could Luke have become a Jedi if he didn't feel a disturbance in the Force when Alderaan blew up? And had to be told by Yoda that he had to feel the Force all around him to pull his ship from the swamp, cuz evidently he wasn't feeling it and was just trying to pull it through brute force?
It's almost like you need training in order to properly sense the Force. And you're putting the cart before the horse.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2023, 03:02:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Ask yourself.
Luke didn't "feel the force", until Obi Wan started training him. How did Luke learn to be a Jedi if he didn't "feel the force"?
I'll even give you a hint...
Counterpoint:
Luke felt the force but not all the time or at will and couldn't use it until he was trained.
Else, then Obiwan AND Yoda are idiots for not just taking ANY child and training him/her to become a Jedi instead of putting all their hopes into the Skywalkers.
Which should tell you (if you weren't so intent on excusing everything in Ahsoka because of the memberberries) there's something special about those who can become a Jedi, you get another clue when Obiwan meets Anakin.
But now Disney is saying that ANYONE can become a Jedi and using the Force isn't needed.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2023, 03:02:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Ask yourself.
Luke didn't "feel the force", until Obi Wan started training him. How did Luke learn to be a Jedi if he didn't "feel the force"?
I'll even give you a hint...
Counterpoint:
Luke felt the force but not all the time or at will and couldn't use it until he was trained.
Evidence?
QuoteElse, then Obiwan AND Yoda are idiots for not just taking ANY child and training him/her to become a Jedi instead of putting all their hopes into the Skywalkers.
The Skywalkers were plainly said to be "strong in the Force". (Obi wan describing Luke's father to him) Qui Gonn believed Anakin was the "Chosen one", and insisted on training him. They had innate talent, and that's why they were chosen for training.
QuoteWhich should tell you (if you weren't so intent on excusing everything in Ahsoka because of the memberberries)
And there you go. You want to hate Ahsoka so bad that you're willing to make shit up that's not there.
Anyone can casually play a sport, not everyone can be an olympic athlete. I think force mastery takes skill and talent. Anyone could learn to use the force to some extend, but few have the potential to master it as a Jedi. Strength in the force is then a product of raw power and the finesse of training to control it. Why else are there so few Jedi in the vast galaxy?
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 18, 2023, 12:51:12 AM
And there you go. You want to hate Ahsoka so bad that you're willing to make shit up that's not there.
"Wrath and anger are abominations, yet the sinner hugs them tight." -Sirac 27:30
This was the reading this Sunday. And as we're all sinners this is defining the human condition. We love our wrath. Some can't feel complete without something to direct wrath at.
Better wrath at a piece of fiction than at people I guess.
Quote from: Wisithir on September 18, 2023, 05:55:43 AM
Anyone can casually play a sport, not everyone can be an olympic athlete. I think force mastery takes skill and talent. Anyone could learn to use the force to some extend, but few have the potential to master it as a Jedi. Strength in the force is then a product of raw power and the finesse of training to control it. Why else are there so few Jedi in the vast galaxy?
my thoughts exactly. i don't see any problem with force mastery being a product of both nature and nurture, with jedi and sith being in the primium league of their own. in fact, given ahsoka's personal history with both, i'd say it makes perfect sense for her to choose one to train as her padawan based on her personal history and established trust with that person, rather than talent.
If it's OK with everyone, let's see how Ahsoka actually plays out before we judge it.
I'm hoping we get to see Ezra in person tomorrow night.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 18, 2023, 12:51:12 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2023, 03:02:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Ask yourself.
Luke didn't "feel the force", until Obi Wan started training him. How did Luke learn to be a Jedi if he didn't "feel the force"?
I'll even give you a hint...
Counterpoint:
Luke felt the force but not all the time or at will and couldn't use it until he was trained.
Evidence?
QuoteElse, then Obiwan AND Yoda are idiots for not just taking ANY child and training him/her to become a Jedi instead of putting all their hopes into the Skywalkers.
The Skywalkers were plainly said to be "strong in the Force". (Obi wan describing Luke's father to him) Qui Gonn believed Anakin was the "Chosen one", and insisted on training him. They had innate talent, and that's why they were chosen for training.
QuoteWhich should tell you (if you weren't so intent on excusing everything in Ahsoka because of the memberberries)
And there you go. You want to hate Ahsoka so bad that you're willing to make shit up that's not there.
His piloting skills and being able to shoot rats on the cannion at very far distances.
Nope, I don't want to hate anything, I just don't think the memberberries substitute good story or excuse breaking canon.
Luke being able to do stuff anyone can do without special powers is proof positive that "force sensitivity" was always part of canon since the OG trilogy (the only one that counts).
Meanwhile the only thing mentioned in the OG trilogy that could even remotely be interpreted as something akin to Force sensitivity was the notion that "The Force is strong in (some people)". Which implies that the Force is present in everyone (i.e. everyone has access to it), it's just that some people are "stronger in it" (or it's presence is stronger within them). Same way everyone can jump, run, climb or play sports games, unless they're disabled. It's just that not everyone is cut out to be a pro athletes.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 18, 2023, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 18, 2023, 12:51:12 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2023, 03:02:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 16, 2023, 02:00:20 PM
Ok, you guys have changed my mind Ahsoka is actually great.
Ahsoka (And Yoda in Empire) explicitly states that everyone has the Force. It's generated by all living things. It's that people have varying levels of talent in using it.
The Force IS everywhere, but NOWHERE in pre-Disney canon does it say that ANYONE can learn to use it, you have to be force sensitive.
Nowhere in the pre-Disney films (I do not consider EU to be canon) does it say you must be "force sensitive" which is a fan term.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression – the Dark Side, are they."
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well, you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
I'll ask again, how can someone who doesn't feel the force (a force sensitive if you will) be a Jedi.
Ask yourself.
Luke didn't "feel the force", until Obi Wan started training him. How did Luke learn to be a Jedi if he didn't "feel the force"?
I'll even give you a hint...
Counterpoint:
Luke felt the force but not all the time or at will and couldn't use it until he was trained.
Evidence?
QuoteElse, then Obiwan AND Yoda are idiots for not just taking ANY child and training him/her to become a Jedi instead of putting all their hopes into the Skywalkers.
The Skywalkers were plainly said to be "strong in the Force". (Obi wan describing Luke's father to him) Qui Gonn believed Anakin was the "Chosen one", and insisted on training him. They had innate talent, and that's why they were chosen for training.
QuoteWhich should tell you (if you weren't so intent on excusing everything in Ahsoka because of the memberberries)
And there you go. You want to hate Ahsoka so bad that you're willing to make shit up that's not there.
His piloting skills and being able to shoot rats on the cannion at very far distances.
Which he used as an example that hitting the exhaust port on the Death Star should be possible for a bunch of Rebel pilots. Nothing to indicate any kind of "Force Sensitivity" there.
QuoteNope, I don't want to hate anything, I just don't think the memberberries substitute good story or excuse breaking canon.
You have yet to show that it breaks canon. Whether it's good storytelling seems to be up for debate.
Ahsoka Episode 6 has dropped. The plot has advanced significantly. It is satisfying, but it is not yet complete.
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 19, 2023, 09:55:25 PM
Ahsoka Episode 6 has dropped. The plot has advanced significantly. It is satisfying, but it is not yet complete.
Not loading for me. Dunno what the heck it is. It seems to get better after a few days, which makes me suspect it's server load.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 21, 2023, 03:32:06 AM
Not loading for me. Dunno what the heck it is. It seems to get better after a few days, which makes me suspect it's server load.
If it was server load, everyone should be having that problem.
I have seen the feed hiccup at 9 on Tuesday, and had to reload to get through the episode, but it always reloaded right away.
Have you tried clearing out your browser cache?
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 22, 2023, 11:22:12 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 21, 2023, 03:32:06 AM
Not loading for me. Dunno what the heck it is. It seems to get better after a few days, which makes me suspect it's server load.
If it was server load, everyone should be having that problem.
I have seen the feed hiccup at 9 on Tuesday, and had to reload to get through the episode, but it always reloaded right away.
Have you tried clearing out your browser cache?
One of the first things I tried.
It loads fine for my brother on our "smart" tv hooked up to the internet. I've just resigned myself to not watching it right when it drops, because the problem usually goes away after a few days.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 21, 2023, 03:32:06 AM
Not loading for me. Dunno what the heck it is. It seems to get better after a few days, which makes me suspect it's server load.
do you want the "ahoy, matey!" file? you paid for their fucking service, so you have the right to access the stuff - intellectual <cough> property <cough> be damned.
Quote from: Klava on September 23, 2023, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 21, 2023, 03:32:06 AM
Not loading for me. Dunno what the heck it is. It seems to get better after a few days, which makes me suspect it's server load.
do you want the "ahoy, matey!" file? you paid for their fucking service, so you have the right to access the stuff - intellectual <cough> property <cough> be damned.
Technically, my brother paid for it. I'm freeloading off his account. :)
I got it to load last night. I'm starting to think there's a way into the episode that works on my rig, and others don't. Like, clicking on the eppy button from X menu instead of Y.
Anyway.
Liked this episode. I'm not a big fan of Thrawn. I only know of him second hand. I never liked EU stuff, and so mostly avoid it. But from what I've read, he sounds like a tryhard "Look at my villian, isn't he so cool?" type.
He was aight in this episode. More of a threat that the Remnant Empire will rally around him, than the character himself. Which is a good angle.
The rest was ok. A vehicle for getting Ezra back. Really a lot of this series is about mood and not plot. And that's fine. Filoni is great at setting the Star Wars mood. Sabine going to find Ezra, fighting wasteland bandits and befrending the hermit crab alien people. Very Star-Warsy.
I am super late with this, sorry, I was away from home this weekend.
Spoilers on, obviously.
I loved that Huyang's story began with "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..."
Thrawn does not disappoint, though he's a little bit more Desslock of Gamelon than I remember from Rebels.
I had expected Thrawn to have established a new empire, but it seems he has merely held on to his forces, some of which have crumbled between his fingers. I wonder what the back story is.
Thrawn's stormtroopers have a cool look, reminiscent of the stray troopers in The Mandalorian. There is online speculation that they are undead or something, but I question that. For one thing, who are they fighting that would have gotten thousands of troopers killed? It's more likely just lots of wear and tear, in keeping with the condition of their Star Destroyer. They have given all of Peridia a very grimy, grim motif.
Enoch is pretty cool looking.
"What kind of ride you got around here?" is a classic Sabine line.
At least Ezra remains at large, even if he doesn't seem to have accomplished much apart from surviving and making some new friends. I bet he's scouted out the place pretty extensively, though. Can't wait to see what tricks he has up his sleeves. What has he built?
I thought I had spotted Loth-Wolves on Peridian at 11:56, but I think now they were just Howlers.
Sabine's Howler is pretty great, though. I love how it came creeping back to her for forgiveness. More than just a Warg, it has a personality.
Only two more episodes left. And clearly, a rematch between Ahsoka and Baylan Skoll will be a big chunk of that. Probably a two part finale, and I wonder how much closure we'll get.
Also, Claudia Black from Farscape and Stargate SG-1 is one of the Witch-Queens.
Episode 7 has dropped, and left me somewhat disappointed.
Anyone else think Thrawn's appearance resembles Elon Musk in blueface?
Quote from: Lurkndog on September 26, 2023, 10:38:52 PM
Episode 7 has dropped, and left me somewhat disappointed.
Predictive obituary... Disney (again) fails to stick the landing.
I have no proof of this; just a feeling.
Live action
One Piece remains the high point of the year(s) for streaming television.
SPOILERS
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I liked E7. I really enjoyed the action stuff, especially when lightsabers come out. I also like the bad guys in this series. They are cool-headed, thoughtful, and calculating. I like how Thrawn refuses to be bothered by setbacks.
I love the aesthetic of the disrepair of the Thrawn forces. And the "special" uniform of the captain (like, why is he not wearing an imperial uniform?). Also, were there ANY other officers around?
I would LOVE it if these troopers were all droid-biological-alchemical Sith constructs powered by secrets given to Thrawn by the Emperor. However, considering how fast they go down, I don't believe that to be true. Although a couple DID take one hit and kept fighting before going down...
I'm also glad to see Hayden getting some airplay. I don't feel like he got a fair shake. I liked his portrayal of Anakin. It's good to see a different side of Anakin when he was in his prime.
Note: I have not seen any of the cartoons. Although I will likely remedy that at some point. :-)
Saturday Spoiler Alert
Nice to see C3PO being granted the rank of an Elder Statesman.
I didn't like that Leia had to lie and cheat to get her way. That should have been Xiono's method of operation.
I'd like to think that Senator Xiono is a well-meaning fool, and not an outright villain. Fits with the depiction of his son Kaz in Star Wars: Resistance. (This is not a plug for Resistance: it was... nonessential.)
I'm pretty disappointed that Ezra hasn't built himself a new lightsaber. I was hoping for something as creative as his stunner/saber. He knows how to build a saber, and he could have stolen a kaiburr crystal from the Imperials, who use them in their technology, or from the Nightsisters.
I'm also a bit disappointed that he's been on the Nightsisters' homeworld for a decade, and hasn't learned any of their force magic.
They're playing Ezra a little too goofy for my tastes, as well. Though, the chemistry with Sabine is there.
Also, what's up with Baylan Skoll? He's got some kind of plan. I'm wondering if he's figured out that whoever controls the Eye of Sion is the one who's really in charge.
Is Thrawn still on his flagship, or has he transferred his command to the Eye of Sion? It seems like the former, but he of all people should realize its importance.
EDIT: It appears that Thrawn is still on Peridea supervising the loading of the cargo. Captain Enoch appears to be on the Eye of Sion, however. So Thrawn has addressed that issue.
Quote from: trechriron on September 29, 2023, 04:28:07 PM
I liked E7. I really enjoyed the action stuff, especially when lightsabers come out. I also like the bad guys in this series. They are cool-headed, thoughtful, and calculating. I like how Thrawn refuses to be bothered by setbacks.
I love the aesthetic of the disrepair of the Thrawn forces. And the "special" uniform of the captain (like, why is he not wearing an imperial uniform?). Also, were there ANY other officers around?
I think the disrepair of their armor was supposed to be part of the theme of Peridea as a whole: everything there is ancient and kinda grimy. It's basically a tomb.
I'm kind of glad they weren't an army of the dead, otherwise we'd have zombie armies in every show that followed.
Quote from: trechriron on September 29, 2023, 04:28:07 PM
Note: I have not seen any of the cartoons. Although I will likely remedy that at some point. :-)
I would definitely recommend
Star Wars Rebels.
The Clone Wars has some good stuff in it, and does a lot to rehabilitate the prequel era, but it is wildly uneven, and drags in places.
I'm trying to remember: did anyone tell Thrawn the Empire lost?
EDIT: We can assume he was filled in on current events, but it didn't happen on-screen.
Last episode of the season tonight. Will it be a cliffhanger, or will we somehow get closure?
Initial impressions of the finale?
I thought Thrawn would be a more imposing figure. He's got "Imperial Officer" down pretty pat, but I was expecting more Darth Vader.
It just about has to be a cliffhanger. Can't piss away Thrawn in two episodes.
Definitely a mixed bag. Some really good stuff, and some complete nonsense.
You should watch it and form your own opinions.
We'll weigh in on Saturday.
I'll get 'er done. Ought to get Ep 7 done tomorrow and get started on the finale tomorrow.
Got to get it done relatively quickly, as I have cancelled my subscription. I have zero fucks to give about Marvel shit, and now that Ahsoka is done...hey, save myself the price increase.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 23, 2023, 06:18:47 PM
Liked this episode. I'm not a big fan of Thrawn. I only know of him second hand. I never liked EU stuff, and so mostly avoid it. But from what I've read, he sounds like a tryhard "Look at my villian, isn't he so cool?" type.
I trad through the first book as happened to have it and found Thrawn just way too "I can outmaneuver anyone!" for my liking.
Which I guess is why some of the fans just short of wack off to him if all the worship he gets from fans is any indicator.
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 03, 2023, 08:55:26 PM
Initial impressions of the finale?
I thought Thrawn would be a more imposing figure. He's got "Imperial Officer" down pretty pat, but I was expecting more Darth Vader.
It just about has to be a cliffhanger. Can't piss away Thrawn in two episodes.
In the books he is drawn from for the TV shows he was more a chessmaster and had all sorts of counters in place to deal with Jedi, Sith, and outmaneuvering people.
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 03, 2023, 11:05:15 PM
I'll get 'er done. Ought to get Ep 7 done tomorrow and get started on the finale tomorrow.
Got to get it done relatively quickly, as I have cancelled my subscription. I have zero fucks to give about Marvel shit, and now that Ahsoka is done...hey, save myself the price increase.
Yeah, I'll be dropping Disney+ as well. And at this point, I'm not sure what they have coming up to bring me back.
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 03, 2023, 08:55:26 PM
Initial impressions of the finale?
I thought Thrawn would be a more imposing figure. He's got "Imperial Officer" down pretty pat, but I was expecting more Darth Vader.
It just about has to be a cliffhanger. Can't piss away Thrawn in two episodes.
Thrawn is the competent bad guy who wins by staying focused on his goals. He can be outsmarted at his own game, though, or the heroes can pull out a Draw 4 Uno card in a game of Go Fish like Ezra did with the Purgills.
Thrawn is on the side of evil, but he himself is only a villain due to an excess of ruthlessness in dealing with his enemies.
Was okay. On balance, more positive than negative.
Without spoiling anything, Asohka to me just further proves that Disney Star Wars is creatively bankrupt and cannot actually create, just ape and maladapt the previous works with their own stupid agendas tacked on.
Quote from: Chris24601 on October 05, 2023, 02:40:08 PM
Without spoiling anything, Asohka to me just further proves that Disney Star Wars is creatively bankrupt and cannot actually create, just ape and maladapt the previous works with their own stupid agendas tacked on.
And the "fans" gush over it.
Final Spoiler Alert: There will be spoilers for the season finale and the show as a whole from here on out.
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Ahsoka Season 1 Episode 8
THE JEDI, THE WITCH, AND THE WARLORD
Cute title.
Why do they bring the Eye of Sion down out of orbit, instead of flying Thrawn's Star Destroyer, the Chimaera, up to meet it? Is the Chimaera not fully spaceworthy? Its main engines have not been lit this whole season. It would have been nice to state this explicitly.
Really, the answer is "because then our heroes couldn't make a ground assault," but where's the fun in that?
Morgan Elsbeth receives the Gift of Shadows, which comes with the flaming Blade of Talzin.
Well, Ezra is finally getting a new lightsaber. I liked the interplay between Ezra and Huyang, particularly when Huyang was telling him about Kanaan.
Tie fighters attack, Sabine crashes the ship into them, ship goes down and our heroes head out after Thrawn riding howlers.
Sabine finally puts her helmet on again.
Ahsoka, Ezra and Sabine charge through artillery lasers, force open the fortress gate, and dispatch a squad of Night Troopers.
The Nightsisters raise the fallen troopers, only for the Jedi to drop them again. The effects are similar to what we saw when Marrok was killed.
FWIW, Marrok no longer appears in the IMDB cast list for Ahsoka.
The undead troopers aren't as good at fighting as the live ones were, but they can take a lot more damage before getting dropped again.
Thrawn sends Morgan Elsbeth to hold the Jedi while the Chimaera and the Eye of Sion link up and lift off. There are also two Dark Troopers present.
"For the Empire," he says.
"For Dathomir," she replies once she is alone.
Pursued by undead Night Troopers, our trio races forward, only to encounter Morgan Elsbeth barring the way.
Ahsoka duels Morgan Elsbeth, while Sabine and Ezra go forward and run into the Dark Troopers.
I liked the duel between Elsbeth and Ahsoka, Elsbeth seemed to have a speed advantage with her blade, which Ahsoka had to counter with both lightsabers.
The Dark Troopers are winning the fight against Sabine and Ezra, until Sabine, inevitably, uses the Force to grab her saber.
Ezra and Sabine use a force-push aided superjump to get Ezra onto the Chimaera, but Sabine goes back to save Ahsoka instead of following.
Morgan Elsbeth and her Night Troopers are on the verge of defeating Ahsoka when Sabine arrives to even the odds.
Ahsoka manages a slick disarm of Morgan, and immediately deals a killing blow with both blades.
The Nightsisters report that Morgan is dead, and Thrawn replies that she has done what was required.
On the Chimaera, Ezra realises that his friends aren't coming, bluffs the troopers using a comlink, and drags off a fallen trooper.
Ahsoka and Sabine board the Jedi Transport, which has more lives than a cat, while Thrawn begins bombarding the fortress.
Our heroes pursue Thrawn, who hangs around just long enough for a taunting "Long live the Empire" before escaping into hyperspace.
Sabine, Ahsoka and Huyang return to the Noti. Ahsoka's owl, which is basically her spirit animal, puts in an appearance.
Shin Hati returns to the bandits, and Baylan Skoll sneaks onto the set of Lord of the Rings.
Thrawn arrives at Dathomir, which was apparently the destination of the Mothers. They have a large number of what appear to be coffins on hand.
An imperial shuttle is escorted to Home One, and a Night Trooper exits the shuttle, and Chopper rolls up to greet him. It's Ezra, of course. "Hi, Hera, I'm home," he says.
Back on Peridea, Ahsoka and Sabine talk, while in the distance Anakin's ghost looks on approvingly.
Ezra walking out of an Imperial shuttle in full stormtrooper armor was stupid as hell. I ached for him to get shot at least once for being that dumb.
The zombie stormtroopers, I kinda liked those.
I didn't like the story of Sabine getting force powers. At all.
It is more like a superhero origin story than something we would see in Star Wars.
Historically, when someone is strong in the force, other force users pick up on it instantly. "The force is strong in this one." And once they are trained a little, they begin to feel it immediately.
So the rule now is that anyone can learn to use the force, even if you already tried in vain for years? That's kinda bullshit, if you ask me. Especially when Sabine went from nothing, to full-on telekinesis, to full-on powerful telekinesis in the span of minutes. Her force-pushing Ezra onto the Star Destroyer was more powerful than anything Luke did in Episode IV. Luke did a force jump at the end of ESB that is broadly comparable, but that happened after he had trained with Yoda for however long.
And the worst part is, Sabine was GREAT when she was running around in her armor, shooting stuff, and occasionally pulling out the saber. She didn't need force powers to be a great fun character, and in fact she was a lot more fun without them.
Overall I'm pretty mixed about Ahsoka. When it is good, it is very good. Episodes 4, 5 and 6 were standouts. But it is uneven, and they didn't nail the ending.
As a fan of Star Wars Rebels, I think they've done an excellent job bringing those characters to live action, probably better than I was expecting.
I think they made Ezra into a little too much of a goofball. His story arc in Rebels was to grow up from being a smartass street punk to becoming a serious, grounded legit Jedi. Now it seems he has gone back to being a goofball.
They did a good job establishing Baylan Skoll and Shin Hati, but they didn't give either of them a proper ending.
Hera didn't get anything like a full story arc either, or her son Jacen.
I don't like the theme of the New Republic being losers. Perhaps they are setting the stage for the OT characters to retake the stage and set things right, or maybe they have something else in mind, but what they're doing now is weak storytelling.
I think they did a good job bringing Thrawn to live action. He is a competent villain, but not flawless. You see the mask crack a few times, and malice and cruelty shine through. I look forward to seeing more of him.
Honestly, I was a bit surprised to see Thrawn as diminished as he was. He had a fraction of the forces left that he had when he was sent into exile.
Claudia Black was very good as the Queen Mother of the Night Sisters.
I wouldn't have known that was Claudia Black if someone had not mentioned it.
Baylan Skoll was the highlight of the series for me. By quite a bit, and Ray Stevenson's death is a damned shame.
ZOMBIE STORMTROOPERS!!! SQEEEEEEEE!!
...runs around in circles with glee...
Quote from: trechriron on October 09, 2023, 01:02:35 AM
ZOMBIE STORMTROOPERS!!! SQEEEEEEEE!!
...runs around in circles with glee...
While I disagree on the "glee" part, I do agree that zombie stormtroopers is absolutely the most on-the-nose thing ever for depicting the current state of the franchise.
Quote from: Chris24601 on October 09, 2023, 08:30:17 AM
While I disagree on the "glee" part, I do agree that zombie stormtroopers is absolutely the most on-the-nose thing ever for depicting the current state of the franchise.
Bah humbug. I'm enjoying all the new Star Wars. And with all the Sith Lord necromancy going about AND advanced cybernetics in the setting, it made no sense to me that they didn't breed zombie-cyber hybrids that could keep on truckin after a blaster hit. Also, no fatigue and extra muscle = heavier armor AND bigger weapons.
I just loved that when the super-trooper's mask was cut off, it was trying to
literally eat Sabine. It's honestly a fantastic evil GM thing to do.
"I've shot that damn trooper 6 times now and it keeps getting up!" - Player
"Yep, who needs to be a marksman when you can just walk up after taking 6 hits and eat your opponents." - GM
I'm sure yall have seen this. It's a trailer for Ahsoka done in the style of an 80s TV show.
I've actually hesitated to watch the last epsiode due to the zombies. I feel like zombies are off theme for Star Wars. Unless handled correctly, and even then, there are better ways to do that theme that don't involve undead or force-undeath or whatever.
Gonna have to watch the show to have a specific opinion. Maybe tonight.
Ok, watched.
I seem to have figured out my issue. Clicking on the episode from the menu list doesn't work for me, but when from the "featured" episode, it loads. Go figger.
Anyway, liked it. They're obviously setting up for another season, or something down the road as this was a "sequel" to the Rebel series, as that was a continuation of the Clone Wars show. That's fine with me.
Zombies didn't bother me that much. I'm wondering if all the troops are zombies (the dark trooper types guys didn't have glowy eyes, but were zombified) or just some of them.
Sabine getting force powers felt like too many Jedi. I like it when there's a mix of character types.
Altogether, I'm good with this series. Coulda been much worse.
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 07, 2023, 03:06:37 PM
Ezra walking out of an Imperial shuttle in full stormtrooper armor was stupid as hell. I ached for him to get shot at least once for being that dumb.
Yeah. They obviously wanted to do the helmet reveal. Probably a better way would be for him to be helmetless and step out of the fog. They'd get their "What is this, a Stormtrooper? It's Ezra!" scene without having him wear the helmet for no apparent reason except for dramatic moment.
finished watching - and it's very good, imo. not perfect by any means, but it's the best star wars i've seen since rebels. will definitely watch again.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on October 12, 2023, 04:26:02 AM
Zombies didn't bother me that much. I'm wondering if all the troops are zombies (the dark trooper types guys didn't have glowy eyes, but were zombified) or just some of them.
If they were all zombies, there would have been no need for volunteers.
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Sabine getting force powers felt like too many Jedi. I like it when there's a mix of character types.
I think they spent way too much time setting it up, and I didn't like the result.
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Altogether, I'm good with this series. Coulda been much worse.
I feel like that's damning the show with faint praise.
Just the imagery alone was worth the trip.
I just wish we'd gotten the ending of the season instead of leaving it in the middle.
Quote from: Lurkndog on October 12, 2023, 08:26:48 PM
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Altogether, I'm good with this series. Coulda been much worse.
I feel like that's damning the show with faint praise.
That's where we're at with Star Wars.
Quote from: Thornhammer on October 07, 2023, 03:06:37 PM
Ezra walking out of an Imperial shuttle in full stormtrooper armor was stupid as hell. I ached for him to get shot at least once for being that dumb.
Didn't he have a radio on that shuttle? "This is Spectre 6 calling New Republic. I have urgent news about Grand Admiral Thrawn."
Finally got around binging the show this week. It was pretty good overall, but not jumping out my seat good. I was unburdened by knowledge of the cartoons, so it didn't get in the way of me liking or not liking it. I did read the novels where Thrawn came up, and thought he was decently executed in the show--not 100% BTFO by him, but still a pretty good presentation of the character (better than I expected from Disney).
Ahsoka/Morgan fight scene was the highlight of the season. Wasn't expecting those moves from Morgan. Found Zombie stormtroopers a bit out of theme for Star Wars, but they kinda worked with the Witches, so kinda torn on them. Ezra was way too goofy. The Sith characters left me hanging--they tried to do too much with them only to never finish their story arc.
Overall not bad, but not as good as Mandalorian or Andor (which I finished binging a few weeks ago--started slow, but picked up pace and got good by the middle, best speech in all of Star Wars by the end).