Kyouran Kazoku Nikki is not easy for Westerners to understand. The average Westerner who sees it will probably denounce it as propaganda for perverse sex.
The main plot is that a suspiciously slim and prepubescent-looking female person (with supernatural cat ears, a supernatural cat tail, and a supernatural capacity for cat-like mischief and cruelty) is married to an unremarkable adult male civil servant. They serve as adoptive parents to several supernatural children who are crucial to the future safety of Japan.
I can hear the cries now: "Prepubescent wife! This is shocking! This is the basest sort of propaganda!"
The female lead character claims to be 20 years old, but that will probably be irrelevant, since she is a supernatural goddess character, and thus throws plot holes and narrative convenience around at least twice per episode.
There are indeed several Japanese cartoons featuring suspiciously young wives that do seem to be arranged to appeal to warped men. Sister Princess would be at the top of my list in that category.
There are also quite a few shows which used the arranged marriage of high school students to frame a romance, sometimes with a substantially younger high school girl married to an older high school boy. Those shows might well be intended primarily for male consumption.
This show, however, contains a few key clues:
1) The opening theme contains the phrases: "Good wife," "scary wife," "autocratic."
2) The male characters are either nonmasculine or ineffective.
a) The husband is a stoic, burned-out Japanese model citizen;
b) One son is a samurai-style chivalrous warrior (complete with samurai-era formal terms of address) who is Don-Quixote-naive by modern standards;
c) Another son is an ultramodern robot with the emotional intelligence of a three-year-old;
d) The final son is flamboyantly feminine in his homosexuality.
All of these male characters are likable, but none of them can win a struggle of wills with the catgirl.
3) The female family members include a stereotypical stoic suffering daughter and a bimbo-with-a-heart-of-gold.
This is a show aimed at 40-year-old Japanese mothers.
This show perfectly compensates for all the insecurities of a Japanese wife who is old enough to have teenage children.
1) The husband never wins arguments;
2) The sons are just effective enough to be tools, not effective enough to resist meaningfully;
3) There is a sexually noticeable "daughter" figure who can be whipped into shape;
4) The catgirl makes jokes about being sexy but shows no real interest in sex;
5) The catgirls gets all the good, pithy lines that demonstrate her transcendent wisdom that trumps the shallow cleverness of the other characters;
6) The catgirl is the center of an emotionally vibrant family with several children.
Compare this to the real dissatisfactions of the audience's women:
1) Their husbands win arguments;
2) Their sons are out of control;
3) Sexually noticeable women, such as their daughters or their sons' girlfriends, have more social power and can't be whipped into shape;
4) They can't even joke about being sexy;
5) They can't be witty or recognized as wise;
6) They are marginalized in family structures and have fewer children than they want.
This is a show that panders to middle-aged women, but most Westerners are going to say it's intended to sexualize young girls.
Well, actually few Japanese (in the 20+ age segment) I knew are into anime. Japanese housewives usually watch drama series, which aren't that different from western sopa operas.
But what is your point anyways?
Quote from: riprockThis is a show that panders to middle-aged women, but most Westerners are going to say it's intended to sexualize young girls.
I'm sure that's how your typical Western pudgy geek boy anime fan will see it.
Quote from: riprockThis is a show that panders to middle-aged women, but most Westerners are going to say it's intended to sexualize young girls.
Can't it do both? After all you do say that the catgirl-goddess-wife is sexualised and given the tone of your e-mail you are clearly claiming some insight into the underlying assumptions of the show. It doesn't seem too remarkable that a media form that is pandering to adult women contains an element of fantasy about being younger. You can see similar things in western media where escapism on being the ideal parent is also mixed in the same format with emphasis on the sexuality of youth.
Edit: That one culture might misinterpret something that in its original context is simply meant to be a depiction of sexualised youth, not under age sex is hardly news as others have said or that people make sweeping judgements based on limited information. I'm sure there are quite a few western imports that Japanese people have gone 'WTF. Those craxy westerners' over
So, if true, that would make this the one anime series that doesn't sexualize young girls then? :D
Quote from: EinWell, actually few Japanese (in the 20+ age segment) I knew are into anime.
Yes, it's not all that uncommon to hear American anime fans talk about how anime is considered a legitimate and adult in Japan yet that's not quite what I found when I was there. In fact, my Japanese co-workers razzed each other as otaku (a name that they didn't want to be called) if they seemed to know too much about anime or manga.
Quote from: EinJapanese housewives usually watch drama series, which aren't that different from western sopa operas.
There are dramas directed to different segments of the Japanese population. I've watched quite a few (they used to run subtitled dramas in some US cities until the mid-1990s, when they were forced to stop subtitling). There are online groups that subtitle Japanese dramas, which often run for 12 episodes like miniseries. You can find more information here (http://www.jdorama.com/) and here (http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/) (the latter site also providing resources for Korean and Chinese dramas).
The one nice thing about about the Japanese dramas is since they are closed ended after about 12 episodes is that literally anything can happen before the last episode and I've seen key characters (including a point-of-view character) get killed off before the last episode and character die even in light comedies. It creates a level of tension in dramatic situations that's often lacking in American television, where a predictable happy ending can normally be assumed.
Quote from: Kyle AaronI'm sure that's how your typical Western pudgy geek boy anime fan will see it.
And applaud it accordingly (with the sound of one hand clapping, of course).
!i!
Quote from: riprockKyouran Kazoku Nikki is not easy for Westerners to understand. The average Westerner who sees it will probably denounce it as propaganda for perverse sex.
I've lived in Japan and looking at the opening and ending and I'm curious why you claim "This is a show aimed at 40-year-old Japanese mothers." From watching the opening and ending on YouTube as well as looking at the air time (Saturday night at around 1AM), that doesn't look like that's the intended audience to me.
@Morrow
Of course asian dramas provide are a wider variety of soapness as western soaps (although many US tv series are IMO quite soap-operesque), but also they target at a wider target group. Historical dramas for example don't only appeal to the female but to the male audience, too.
But I guess that isn't anything new for you. ;)
Anyways, I don't think that one can take an anime series made from a light novel series written and illustrated by anonymous too seriously.
Can't denounce it because I won't watch it. Catgirls don't pull my trigger, and the rest of the Wacky Zany Family doesn't really entice me to check out the show.
Might I suggest that instead of this show, the money that might be spent translating it be spent on perving up more episodes of Shin Chan?
The American version of Shin Chan is filthy and funny as hell.
Quote from: ThornhammerCan't denounce it because I won't watch it.
That describes all of my television habits! Since I don't own a TV it's pretty easy not to see what's on TV. That said I will continue my blanket denunciation of anime as pretty gawd damned ghey, along with furries, larpers and people who drive Geo Metro's. ;)
I find the title of this thread offensive and I roundly denounce it.
Regarding Japanese Dramas: I watched almost all of 'Our House', and even though every one survives (Oops... Spoiler...sorry)... man it was brutal and draining at times.
Quote from: John MorrowI've lived in Japan and looking at the opening and ending and I'm curious why you claim "This is a show aimed at 40-year-old Japanese mothers." From watching the opening and ending on YouTube as well as looking at the air time (Saturday night at around 1AM), that doesn't look like that's the intended audience to me.
Well, I actually posted reasons in the original post, but possibly they weren't convincing enough. Did you see the little numbered lists? Those were supposed to be reasons.
In short, I think the show depicts an ideal wish-fulfillment family from the perspective of a 40-year-old housewife, as explained in the original post.
I can't be bothered to condemn a show that doesn't mean shit to me, won't ever be exported to North America and won't show up at any local fan cons because the concoms around here aren't stupid enough to let shit like this through. (I know enough folks on said concoms, so I can act as backup.)
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerI can't be bothered to condemn a show that doesn't mean shit to me
Saying that a show doesn't mean shit to you doesn't count as a denunciation, of course ... it's much more impartial and nuanced.
Quote from: John MorrowI've lived in Japan and looking at the opening and ending and I'm curious why you claim "This is a show aimed at 40-year-old Japanese mothers." From watching the opening and ending on YouTube as well as looking at the air time (Saturday night at around 1AM), that doesn't look like that's the intended audience to me.
When you were in Japan, did you gather actual data on the TV-watching habits of 40-year-old women, or are you just taking a wild guess?
I really doubt "westerners" will denounce this show - most of them won't even hear about it.
To be truthful Anime-fans are considered that "new Geek-group" or subculture.
Most people don't even notice it...and won't notice the show you refer to.
To them, "SPEED RACER" isn't anime - its just that fun cartoon they grew up with wjen they were kids.
- Ed C.
Quote from: John MorrowYes, it's not all that uncommon to hear American anime fans talk about how anime is considered a legitimate and adult in Japan yet that's not quite what I found when I was there. In fact, my Japanese co-workers razzed each other as otaku (a name that they didn't want to be called) if they seemed to know too much about anime or manga.
Logical fallacies: Missing the point, straw man.
When was I in America?
When did I say that anime is regarded as "legitimate and adult"?
Counterpoint: The pop entertainment produced by Hollywood is not exactly universally lauded as high art in America, yet America doesn't seem to mind making money and propaganda coups from it. Neither does Japan object to getting profits and soft power from anime.
Quote from: ThornhammerCan't denounce it because I won't watch it.
But isn't the fact that you won't be watching the show, itself, a denunciation?
!i!
This thread feels like a response to an argument that never happened, in an attempt to stir up imagined controversy where none was present.
"Westerners" won't "denounce" a show they don't give a flying fuck about, have never heard of, will almost certainly never see, and are unlikely to even reach the same outlandish conclusion you seem to have leaped to.
I'm not sure what the hell response you're expecting on this one, but I advise that if you're gunning for a good troll, you ought to take it to an audience that cares.
Quote from: riprockIn short, I think the show depicts an ideal wish-fulfillment family from the perspective of a 40-year-old housewife, as explained in the original post.
Beyond the fact that you made some errors in your assumptions, it does not follow that becuase you think it depicts and ideal wish-fulfillment family from the perspective of a 40 year-old housewife that it was made for that market.
Quote from: riprockWhen you were in Japan, did you gather actual data on the TV-watching habits of 40-year-old women, or are you just taking a wild guess?
If you knew anything about Japan, Japanese television, and how it is scheduled, you wouldn't be asking that question. Go spend some time reading a Japanese television schedule. Pay particular attention to what each show is about, when it's on, and what it's programmed against. Let me know if you see any patterns.
Quote from: riprockLogical fallacies: Missing the point, straw man.
I really hit a raw spot with you, didn't I?
Quote from: riprockCounterpoint: The pop entertainment produced by Hollywood is not exactly universally lauded as high art in America, yet America doesn't seem to mind making money and propaganda coups from it. Neither does Japan object to getting profits and soft power from anime.
And that's relevant to your claim that this show is aimed at 40 year-old housewives how, exactly?
Quote from: J Arcane"Westerners" won't "denounce" a show they don't give a flying fuck about, have never heard of, will almost certainly never see, and are unlikely to even reach the same outlandish conclusion you seem to have leaped to.
Being a Westerner who was totally unaware of this show, you
would say that, wouldn't you? Of course, now that you know about it, you're pretty much obligated to seek it out, watch it, then defend it feebly, aren't you? Your kind makes me sick. How do you face yourself in the mirror every morning?
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaBeing a Westerner who was totally unaware of this show, you would say that, wouldn't you? Of course, now that you know about it, you're pretty much obligated to seek it out, watch it, then defend it feebly, aren't you? Your kind makes me sick. How do you face yourself in the mirror every morning?
!i!
So what you're saying is I've been spending my whole life denouncing all kinds of things without even realizing it?!
It's all so clear to me now! I'm the keeper of the cheese, and you're the lemon merchant. The little creatures of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me, why didn't you believe me?!
Quote from: J ArcaneSo what you're saying is I've been spending my whole life denouncing all kinds of things without even realizing it?!
Ignorance and inaction
are denunciation. It's voting without your feet. Jumping niether up nor down, but tentatively in the middle. A cat in a box that is both dead and not-dead.
But don't worry. From everything I've heard about them, the Japanese are so ludicrously fantastic and obscene, they can't possibly exist for real.
!i!
Quote from: KoltarTo be truthful Anime-fans are considered that "new Geek-group" or subculture.
If by new you mean a few decades old, then yeah.
QuoteMost people don't even notice it...and won't notice the show you refer to.
Yup.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIgnorance and inaction are denunciation. It's voting without your feet. Jumping niether up nor down, but tentatively in the middle. A cat in a box that is both dead and not-dead.
But don't worry. From everything I've heard about them, the Japanese are so ludicrously fantastic and obscene, they can't possibly exist for real.
!i!
See, now I can't tell if you're buying into his circular argument, or whether you're continuing with the sarcasm.
To the former I would note that "denunciation" carries with it far strongger connotations that simply not watching something.
To the latter, I heard they have sex with octopi to enhance their fertility. A friend of a friend once told my second cousin's step-aunt he saw an octopus dildo on display at a store.
Quote from: J ArcaneSee, now I can't tell if you're buying into his circular argument, or whether you're continuing with the sarcasm.
Scary, isn't it?
QuoteTo the latter, I heard they have sex with octopi to enhance their fertility. A friend of a friend once told my second cousin's step-aunt he saw an octopus dildo on display at a store.
Now, see? That's
totally hot.
!i!
Of course, I wouldn't expect anyone to download torrents.
If, however, you've already spent 24 minutes arguing about it, you might as well double down the time wasted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqSXPvS3Jw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf_12cQeiEw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvpnYvL6z9M&feature=related
Quote from: NiallSCan't it do both? After all you do say that the catgirl-goddess-wife is sexualised and given the tone of your e-mail you are clearly claiming some insight into the underlying assumptions of the show. It doesn't seem too remarkable that a media form that is pandering to adult women contains an element of fantasy about being younger.
I don't think you're reading the same post I wrote. Anyhow, I posted links to youtube versions so you can see what I think is a minimally sexual character -- one who would like to talk about sexual roles but who isn't particularly interested in sex.
This, of course, assumes that the show is not some kind of unclean witchcraft that will rot our souls the moment we look at it.
having watched the intro bit I think I can verify soul rot
I'm not a Westerner but I denounce the show. I haven't watched it, but I still denounce it.
Regards,
David R
I think we all do, David. Not because of the Show itself, but because Riprock told us too.
One of us.One of us.One of us....