Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998217Original D&D was meant first and foremost to be a GAME!

So, yeah, if you want Franciscans running around doing flying kung-fu kicks, go for it!

Crom, now I have an idea for different techniques available for Franciscans, Cistercians, Benedictines...

Surely Franciscans get Vow of Poverty, while Benedictines get Silence (30' radius) (Level) times /per day, but what do the Cistercians get, Drunken Kung-Fu:D?

Monks appeared because the Kung Fu TV show was in reruns, Brian Blume liked the Destroyer books, and Jim Ward thought the song "Kung Fu Fighting" was funny.

It had fuckdiddlydoodahday to do with "world building" or "history."

I agree that the decker in shadowrun wasnt really playable. Rules too complex, takes too long. It's a minigame involving only one player and we just handwaived it. On the other hand, in SR5, they have integrated it better with I forget the term but basically wireless networks and graphic overlays over everything, which allows the hacker to be with the squad when doing their mission. so it just becomes another kind of magic.

Having said all that, games like SR5 are too complex for what I want these days. I'd like a simplified version. I havent tried SR anarchy yet but do mean to, but I think I would have preferred just a slimmed down SR5 (less modifiers, less options, but keeping dice pools, damage tracks, etc)

D&D says "fantastic Medieval" not "historical medieval"

As for Monks they only don't fit if your game is heavilly based on Europe. I think the idea of an unarmed combat master as a character class in a fantasy game is a great one. In the big melting pot that is D&D it is hard to pull any one thing out and say "this is sillier than everything else".

As for Solos and Deckers in Cyberpunk they absolutely fit thematically. It was Rockerboys that everyone thought were lame in our campaigns.  Just because the mechanics were fucked up doesn't mean the classes didn't fit.

What I find a hard fit is Pure Strain Humans in many post apocalyptic games. The mutants, human and otherwise, get all sorts of cool powers, there may be robots and psyborgs, and psykers, and even aliens, why play a plain vanilla human? They just seem scrawny and weak and bland.

One of the issues with Monks is that they seem inherently alien by concept.  If eastern style Martial Arts is a thing in the setting then why isn't the Fighter doing it too?

Monks too often seem to necessarily be from elsewhere, some nebulous East.  (If your game is actually set in Not-China do you really need Monks as a class?)  As such they tend to lend themselves well to that annoying character from that guy who can't be bothered integrating into the setting.

Quote from: RunningLaser;998202Monk definitely.  Although that was only during the past 10 years or so when I was told they meant kung-fu monks.

For years and years I thought they meant this kind of monk


Which made me wonder how they got all those kewl powerz.

First Monk I ever played was Friar Tuck from an old Dragon Magazine.

At least in a couple versions of d&d monks were the class that didn't need the rest of the party.  They could fight, sneek, heal and magic.  Why did they need any one else?

I don't have a major problem with the classes of 'classic' D&D, but I've always (like, since 1977) thought they made a mistake by focusing too strongly on 'meta' class concepts that don't really have much to do with roles in historical medieval societies. For example, the fighter sub-types are a mish-mash of generic categories (Fighter), fantasy-inspired specific ideas (Ranger), and cultural background (Barbarian). I think it all would have been more natural if they had gone with things like Soldier, Knight, Nobleman, a Monk who really is like a medieval monastic, and so forth. This is what Paladium and Chivalry and Sorcery did, and the end result is more satisfying. It is also what the OSR supplement, The Rose War does, and I'm fond of that.

D&D monks seem weird but Kung Fu was a genre busting subversive cowboy western. Too cool to leave out. That said, the monk doesn't fit straight western medieval settings. Adjust to taste.

The D&D assassin is a mechanical oddball, with its autokill assassination chart.  Like the thief with his % skill list, he has his own game going on, but it plays much worse.

One of the enduring features of old D&D is that it's easy to change things. The wet canons miss that.

Well yes you can change this.  It's just a bit of a pain with more recent additions with so much extra stuff added in.  Yes you can say no, but after a while the list of things can start getting long and you feel like a bit of a killjoy.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998234Monks appeared because the Kung Fu TV show was in reruns, Brian Blume liked the Destroyer books, and Jim Ward thought the song "Kung Fu Fighting" was funny.

It had fuckdiddlydoodahday to do with "world building" or "history."

So I was right and those were Destroyer nods in the monk.

Quote from: saskganesh;998261D&D monks seem weird but Kung Fu was a genre busting subversive cowboy western. Too cool to leave out. That said, the monk doesn't fit straight western medieval settings. Adjust to taste.

The D&D assassin is a mechanical oddball, with its autokill assassination chart.  Like the thief with his % skill list, he has his own game going on, but it plays much worse.

One of the enduring features of old D&D is that it's easy to change things. The wet canons miss that.

I never quite understood trying to simulate medieval Europe with D&D. The implied setting, if one follows the rules in the (original) DMG, is a pretty weird place all its own.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998234Monks appeared because the Kung Fu TV show was in reruns...

Not sure about the "reruns" bit. Monks appeared in Blackmoor (published in 1975). New episodes of Kung Fu were on the air until April of 1975. I do agree that it was clear at the time Blackmoor was published that Monks had fuck-all to do with any sort of a coherent, non-kitchen sink setting.

Huh.  Didn't realize Kung Fu was on that long.  It was decades ago after all.

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