Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;997476The noise draws a wandering monster.

Something is coming up behind you.  What it is can not be seen: it is like a great shadow, in the middle of which is a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seem to be in it and go before it.  In its right hand is a blade like a stabbing tongue of fire; in its left it holds a whip of many thongs.

What do you do?

Get across the bridge before that old graybeard with the staff and the pointy hat.

Quote from: jeff37923;997394OK, you have a rape victim who decides they want to play in a game where their characters can be raped in game, the GM has told all of the players what might be happening. This player then halts game play because something that they knew could possibly trigger them has triggered them? Bullshit. I am not somebody else's psychological counseling foil either as player or GM. It is psychological unsafe for that X-card player and it is unfair to the rest of the people at the table. If you know that something can trigger your PTSD or whatever, then playing in a game where that subject matter is present is like playing Russian Roulette and that is too much to ask of people just gathered together to have fun.



:rolleyes:

You're inventing fantasy scenarios to justify your predjudice against something you admit to having no experience or interest in.

Using an X card hardly requires that you be a rape victim, be 'triggered' or suffering from PTSD, you're pulling all of this right out of your ass based on your assumptions and stereotypes.

I already presented a much more likely scenerio based around horror game play, want to tell us why the X Card is so bad in that case?

Actually don't as you have no experience at the table to back it up.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;997445This song and dance again?  You need a new record player, one where the needle doesn't get stuck on every single 45.  The one you have now is seriously messing with your signal to noise ratio.

I find it tiresome to point out the clueless 'get off my lawn!' circlejerks too. The problem is less my pointing it out and more the smug, self-satisfied posts by those who admit to having no actual knowledge of the subject they are attacking based on prejudice and feelz.

Quote from: Bren;997466I didn't say it's impossible to use. But it doesn't appear to do anything that a short phrase doesn't already do. And to figure out what element of the interaction was the problem or the trigger (was it the act itself, the target of the act, the perpetrator of the act, the location of the act, the details or wording of the description of the act, or some combination of the above?) will require an interruption of greater length and some explanation using words or pictures or charades or something.

All theorycrafting, people are using this at their tables successfully by their own reports, why would you doubt them?

To be clear I don't even play these type of games or use X Cards but I've read and talked to those who have.

But according to you instead I should take the word of posters here who have by their own light no idea what they're talking about.

Think of the absurdity of people declaring X Cards the 'worse practice' in RPGs but when called on it not a single one of those attacking it have actually seen it at use at an actual table or are even interested in the kind of game with the content that would require it!!

Quote from: Voros;997515You're inventing fantasy scenarios to justify your predjudice against something you admit to having no experience or interest in.

Sorry if my hypothetical situation annoys you, but some player asking to use an X card at my table will get asked to leave. I don't want to put up with that shit.

Quote from: Voros;997515Using an X card hardly requires that you be a rape victim, be 'triggered' or suffering from PTSD, you're pulling all of this right out of your ass based on your assumptions and stereotypes.

Considering that we have had people post on this forum claiming that they have used RPGs to engage in amateur psychiatry to "help" victims of sexual abuse, it is a Real Life example.

Quote from: Voros;997515I already presented a much more likely scenerio based around horror game play, want to tell us why the X Card is so bad in that case?

I would find it annoying to deal with. If I am the GM, then I run the show and I will game for fun. If I am annoyed, I am not having fun. So no X card.

Quote from: Voros;997515Actually don't as you have no experience at the table to back it up.

Dumb ideas are self-evident. The X card is a dumb idea.

If you're triggered by genocide, you probably shouldn't be playing Keep on the Borderlands at my table.

While I don't think the concept of a X-card is dumb. I do think that before character creation even starts everyone should sit down at the table and decide what is acceptable and not during the campaign. If a grown man, woman, or whatever gender they identify with is unable to tell me what bothers them without the use of a X-card. I usually ask them to leave. If they can't tell me face to face without the use of a glorified index card they have some issues they need resolved first. I can understand those aged 15-20 being uncomfortable talking to me about what may bother them at a gaming table. Anyone over the age of 25 looks strange.

Whatever happened to talking to people and letting them know what they are both comfortable and not at the table.

Quote from: Bren;997362Not what I said at all. The method sounds twee. The players sound inarticulate.

The people in your example have chosen to explore sexual violence in their leisure. So this is not something that they are going to suddenly be surprised by during play. So I'm struggling to understand why during that exploration they would be unable to say words to the effect of, "Ewww! Too gross. Dial it back please." I'm also uncertain how the other people at the table will be able to sort out which aspect of the dark sexual violence that one player found to be too much? Was it the act itself, the specific victim, the perpetrator, the level of description, the word choices used in the description? Flashing an X-card doesn't clarify what the actual problem or issue is which means we are now going to have to use our words to sort that out. So why not start out using our words?

Perhaps you can provide specific examples of an X-card use in play to enlighten the ignorant masses.

Because the x card cannot be mistaken for something your character says. For instance, if an NPC is torturing the character, the character might say "stop" but the GM should probably ignore it. People say stop but torturers don't stop. if the X card is used, the GM knows that she or he is crossing a line and could, for instance lighten up on the description. I think it could easily be replaced by a safe word. For instance, you could agree that no ones character will say a specific word or phrase and that it would act as the x card.

There are at least two different issues being conflated here:

1. Would you use an RPG session as a kind of therapy, or in a session where it might turn into a quasi therapy session?

2. Is an X-card potentially effective when doing so?

My answer to the latter is that yes, it is.  For the simple reason that people can be rendered speechless when so stressed, but are still able to make a practiced, physical motion.  And the mere presence of such an outlet (i.e. having practiced it and it being understood) is often sufficient to avoid needing it.  In such a session, that would be the ideal use of the X-card, strictly as safety net as a last protection for something that has already been well discussed and hedged against.

The first question is where the difficulty lies.  I said earlier that I'm not running such a session.  The reason is that I'm convinced that RPG sessions as normally understood have no business being mixed in with therapy, despite some surface similarities.  I'm not going to get personal enough to get into the details, but suffice it to say that:

A. The nature of the thrill of imagining yourself in a bad situation in a game (say, a horror-like situation) is primarily one of vicariously experiencing something that you know to not be a threat.  Conflating that with someone addressing a fear that is inordinately real to them (for whatever reason) is seldom helpful.  Their therapist would not be amused.

B. Contrawise, one of the best things you can do for someone who is suffering such fears is to give them an outlet where they can engage in some good natured fun, perhaps even dealing with "scary" situations that hold no particular fear for them.  That is, let them be vicariously "afraid" but not really.  Thus, my point that whatever would be causing the need for the X-card in the first place is either a reason for the player to not be in the game or a reason for the GM to take the thing out.  If the person is a friend you want to help, that's the best thing you can do, the same way you'd invite them over to a party that didn't mess with their fears, either.

C. Amateur therapy sucks.

I can see uses for the X-card for GMs too: When players want to play out mundane boring-ass crap like shopping for common items or small-scale gambling or even dumb ass things like bar fights. Unless everyone at the table is into it, these things such the life right out of a game. Oh wait, the GM doesn't need a card; he can just say 'No'... and so can players.

I've never seen this stuff in play, so it's all theoretical to me. I can imagine someone who has had some form of negative life experience but still want to be able to play their elf games. I suppose I could see a normal game suddenly get entirely too real unexpectedly. And I can see holding up a card being a much safer feeling proposition than saying, "I need us to stop going down this road of discussion." and having to justify it to anyone who pushes back (and yes I can see getting pushback).

But moreover, that just sounds convenient for someone who might need one. As a completely unrelated example, I have a friend, who, as he gets excited just gets louder and LOUDER and LOUDER, and, back when we were all 20-somethings living in apartments, it was a real problem. It would have been really smart of us to have a laminated card for people to hold up that said, "Matt, pipe down before the upstairs neighbors start stomping on the floor!"

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;997559C. Amateur therapy sucks.

I would go further and say it's even potentially dangerous.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;997579I would go further and say it's even potentially dangerous.

It most certainly is. What's worse is when corporate tries to push managers and directors to use a "psychodynamic leadership approach" with barely any training and then they wonder why such things tend to go horribly wrong.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;997579I would go further and say it's even potentially dangerous.

Good thing then that no one is doing so when using the XCard in a GAME.

But you guys keep tilting at those windmills.