Graph and Minis or Theatre of the Mind combat?

Steven Mitchell · August 30, 2017, 04:04:52 PM

The perverse, "poke at people's pet peeves," side of my nature wants to write a simple dungeon crawling game that is played on a grid of off-set squares, combining features of both hexes and squares. I used that for some homebrew designs in my teens, because it was easier to draw than hexes.

Shawn Driscoll · August 30, 2017, 05:05:14 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;984218Title says it all. What's your preference? Got a main reason or is just what you prefer?

I don't play wargames at a role-play session anymore. So all combat is handled in real-time in our minds at the speed of movie plot.

chirine ba kal · August 30, 2017, 06:46:45 PM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;988056I don't play wargames at a role-play session anymore. So all combat is handled in real-time in our minds at the speed of movie plot.

Fascinating. I'm not sure I understand the use of the word 'wargames' in an RPG context, though. I've done combats exactly the way you describe, and it's a lot of fun; other times, we've used the table as a sort of tactical display - but not in what I understand to be a 'wargame' context as it's used today. I'm fascinated by this - wonderful discussion!

EDIT: I wonder if this is an artifact of how I've sen D&D 4e being played? These games seem to fit my qualification as a wargame, and there's a lot less of what I'd think of as RPG play. Hmmm. Something to contemplate.

Omega · August 31, 2017, 03:04:58 AM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;988047The perverse, "poke at people's pet peeves," side of my nature wants to write a simple dungeon crawling game that is played on a grid of off-set squares, combining features of both hexes and squares. I used that for some homebrew designs in my teens, because it was easier to draw than hexes.

Been done since at least the early 90s.

And heres my example pic for showing designers how to use squares to emulate hexes.

Zalman · August 31, 2017, 11:07:55 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;988056I don't play wargames at a role-play session anymore. So all combat is handled in real-time in our minds at the speed of movie plot.

Which speed is that exactly? Are we talking Jim Jarmush, John Woo, Steven Spielberg, or what?

Bren · August 31, 2017, 05:22:28 PM

Quote from: Omega;988173Been done since at least the early 90s.

Much longer. For example below is a portion of the board for a Sci-Fi game called Godsfire. The board used offset squares instead of hexes with a spiral of additional squares label from (-5 to +5) to allow for a simple approximation of 3D movement.

Spoiler

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1496[/ATTACH]

I suspect one reason offset squares didn't catch on was that blank hex paper was fairly readily available by the late 1970s. Blank hex paper is what I used for my old D&D wilderness maps. I played in a D&D campaign in 1977-78 where we had fairly high level characters who did a lot of wilderness exploration where we as players used blank hex maps to record where we had traveled.

RPGPundit · September 03, 2017, 03:39:13 AM

Theatre of the Mind, always.

AsenRG · September 04, 2017, 06:15:43 PM

Quote from: Bren;986883Well obviously your experience is wrong.

And you were in the mood where regeneration that's only preventable by acid or fire seemed like a good idea, I guess.

RPGPundit · September 06, 2017, 03:57:22 AM

It does astound me the amount of effort some people go to in order to use minis. And the expense! When it's really well done, it can be very impressive, but really, in a practical sense I find it just slows everything down without enough mitigating benefits.

Tod13 · September 06, 2017, 09:26:19 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;989434It does astound me the amount of effort some people go to in order to use minis. And the expense! When it's really well done, it can be very impressive, but really, in a practical sense I find it just slows everything down without enough mitigating benefits.

I think sometimes using the minis is the excuse for liking to paint and convert them. I use 6mm, which reduces cost.

For my players, we started without minis and then added them in, and I offered to run it either way. All my players liked using minis--it makes it easier for them to keep track of where everybody is. (But, as previously mentioned, we do not use the minis as a tactical wargame. And combat in the game I wrote runs really quickly.)

fearsomepirate · September 06, 2017, 10:00:49 AM

I really enjoy buying and painting minis, mostly the Reaper Bones to keep the cost down. I virtually never use them in combat. I just enjoy painting them. I see these elaborate setups people do with Dwarven Forge (recently saw someone do the entire Caves of Chaos) and always think, "Yeah, but what if the party decides to go to Hookhill instead?"

Baulderstone · September 06, 2017, 10:11:21 AM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;989501I really enjoy buying and painting minis, mostly the Reaper Bones to keep the cost down. I virtually never use them in combat. I just enjoy painting them. I see these elaborate setups people do with Dwarven Forge (recently saw someone do the entire Caves of Chaos) and always think, "Yeah, but what if the party decides to go to Hookhill instead?"

That's my major objection to minis (and using elaborate interfaces for online play). As a GM it makes me prep in a way that encourages me to push players to places I have minis and layouts for.

Tod13 · September 06, 2017, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;989501I really enjoy buying and painting minis, mostly the Reaper Bones to keep the cost down. I virtually never use them in combat. I just enjoy painting them. I see these elaborate setups people do with Dwarven Forge (recently saw someone do the entire Caves of Chaos) and always think, "Yeah, but what if the party decides to go to Hookhill instead?"

Yaa. I didn't think about scenery. We use a big erasable grid to draw the room or whatever. I have a few things like random vending machines, barrels, and the like that I might put out for fun. But yea, I have trouble imagining using the really big, complex scenery setups.

Bren · September 06, 2017, 12:32:39 PM

Quote from: Tod13;989488I think sometimes using the minis is the excuse for liking to paint and convert them.

While I derived some enjoyment from painting and converting minis, I derive more enjoyment from having minis that are painted and converted.

I'm not big on creating scenery though. The most effort I'll go to is drawing out a floor plan in large scale on a big sheet of paper ahead of time. I did that for a Hutt Palace for Star Wars. Two different parties paid the Hutt a visit for entirely different reasons so the amount of effort seemed justified. I also did a floor plan for a large bar/casino/sporting place for Star Wars. It showed up about half a dozen times with three different parties. That was a good investment in drawing time.

Gronan of Simmerya · September 06, 2017, 02:02:43 PM

Quote from: Tod13;989488I think sometimes using the minis is the excuse for liking to paint and convert them. I use 6mm, which reduces cost.

That's always been the case, since Day One. Modeling is a fun hobby in its own right.