Quote from: danskmacabre;986067After reading this thread, I ended up buying it on Android.
Yeah it's pretty fun.

Awesome!. If you need tips, lemme know.

One ingenious thing the game does is make you think like a pre-modern superstitious man would. In other words, if you adhere to modern views of universal love, equality and fraternity, your clan will perish.

Quote from: Larsdangly;9854642E an 3E Runequest are frankly incredible at both integrating religion into game play and describing religion in a way that really captures the diversity of historical religious beliefs and practices. This is best represented in the 2E source books, Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror, and in the 3E core boxed set and Gods of Glorantha. I have an awful lot of games, and off hand I can't think of one that comes close to RQ in this respect. Do any of you think I've missed one?

I don't know. What specifically is it about Runequest that you think is so great? I know of a few RPGs that I think do a great job of it. Even D&D is pretty good--I think you have to first know a thing or two to recognize it, otherwise your likely to think of it as just being an excuse for another character type.

Quote from: Lunamancer;986392I don't know. What specifically is it about Runequest that you think is so great? I know of a few RPGs that I think do a great job of it. Even D&D is pretty good--I think you have to first know a thing or two to recognize it, otherwise your likely to think of it as just being an excuse for another character type.

1) It specifically integrated as end goal of character advancement.
2) Being a Rune Lord or Rune Priest has an aura of cool about it due to the weird stuff you get with it.
3) There a more or less standard template that is used so you can see how you can add your own take to it.
4) The mythology it woven everywhere in the fluff for Glorantha to a greater degree than most setting. It hard to find anything that not touched by myth and religion.

Basically Runequest was the first RPG to put religion front and center. Even Chivalry & Sorcery because of it's focus on a true medieval setting with the Catholic Church in play doesn't go as far as Runequest in this regard. With D&D clerics are an option, and there barely a mention of any type of religion (as opposed to gods as monsters) until the 2e settings reigned.

Regarding Harn, there were a lot of collected articles by the Harn Religion Team that fleshed out the religions more.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160827122050/http://www.lythia.com/hrt/

Within Harnic religion, there was a lot of conflict and differing sects as well as esoteric details that made it more interesting as a religion. On a simple level, there are just ten gods - but in detail there are more philosophies and clashing cultures that make it seem more like medieval pagan religion with features like mystery cults.

Quote from: estar;986398With D&D clerics are an option, and there barely a mention of any type of religion (as opposed to gods as monsters) until the 2e settings reigned.

My experience of D&D Clerics is that their religions/gods are barely mentioned in play... they're just a source for spells - and all Clerics have access to the same spells. Not that Players can't go to town on playing up that stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the norm and the game itself doesn't make much effort to push it... unless there's some later mechanism I haven't experienced, which is quite possible.

Earthdawn doesn't push religion all that much but its different Disciplines, while primarily being analogous to D&D classes, also embody worldviews that are somewhat spiritual... and feel somewhat similar to belonging to different cults in Runequest.

Quote from: estar;986398With D&D clerics are an option, and there barely a mention of any type of religion (as opposed to gods as monsters) until the 2e settings reigned.

My experience of D&D Clerics is that their religions/gods are barely mentioned in play... they're just a source for spells - and all Clerics have access to the same spells. Not that Players can't go to town on playing up that stuff, but the game itself doesn't make much effort to push it... unless there's some later mechanism I haven't experienced, which is quite possible.

Earthdawn doesn't push religion all that much but its different Disciplines, while primarily being analogous to D&D classes, also embody worldviews that are somewhat spiritual... and feel somewhat similar to belonging to different cults in Runequest.

Quote from: Simlasa;986401My experience of D&D Clerics is that their religions/gods are barely mentioned in play... they're just a source for spells - and all Clerics have access to the same spells. Not that Players can't go to town on playing up that stuff, but the game itself doesn't make much effort to push it... unless there's some later mechanism I haven't experienced, which is quite possible.

The core book never fleshed out any religions, the settings however does in varying levels of detail. Birthright, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms, etc. And starting with 3E sometimes religious philosophies are sketched out in enough to detail to hang a religion off of it. For example the different Paladin archetypes of 5e.

So no core generic template for setting up a religion and its followers?
DCC, being a flavor of D&D, doesn't have much along those lines either but the way it handles Clerics is more flavorful than most any D&D I've played... it pushes the Cleric to interact with their god in various means, including calling for its direct aid and having to do penance when the god is displeased. I'm always well aware of the different Clerics in our game and what gods they follow because it comes up fairly frequently.
I enjoy playing DCC Clerics enough that I'd like to see more ideas for DCC gods and possibly distinct spell lists for them.

Quote from: estar;986398Basically Runequest was the first RPG to put religion front and center. Even Chivalry & Sorcery because of it's focus on a true medieval setting with the Catholic Church in play doesn't go as far as Runequest in this regard. With D&D clerics are an option, and there barely a mention of any type of religion (as opposed to gods as monsters) until the 2e settings reigned.

The thing about that is, D&D is trying to cover all the bases. I look at Gary's later fantasy RPGs, Lejendary Adventure particular caught my attention, because a lot of the spirits are nigh invulnerable if you don't have special means to fight them. They're immaterial, so you can't swing a sword at them. You're basically boned without a cleric or someone else with some power for dealing with spirits. Where it gets really interesting is there are priest powers that do nothing but protect areas and objects against malign spirits. One covers a huge area--like an entire town. Another is more concentrated and would cover a church or temple.

When I go back and look at some of the old D&D modules (pre 2nd Ed), I start to notice--it may not have spelled things out the way LA did, and it may have allowed adventurers broader latitude in fighting ghosts and such things, but there are some pretty harsh effects for barging into sacred places and being the wrong alignment, touching altars, opening certain protected portals (like in ToEE), and so forth. It was all present in original D&D. It's just you need to be familiar with Gary's others work to see the big picture. Once you do, though, I think it's clear that he did put that into D&D, just didn't wear it on the sleeve so to speak.

But what in particular made me think of some of Gary's later work with regards to religion is that whereas cleric powers in AD&D are inspired by biblical miracles and a few other sources, the powers in Mythus especially seemed to be more mindful of the cleric's role in society, while the powers in Lejendary Adventure, aside from painting the picture I mentioned earlier, seemed to have a stronger religious flavor to them, with powers such as Crown of Belief, Smite the Wicked, Dismay the Unbeliever, and so forth.


Anyway, all that said, I've been making religion more and more central to my campaigns as I go. This is what motivated me to inquire further. What you've described of Runequest so far though seems pretty far off the mark for what I'm envisioning. I can see how that would evoke a "Hey, cool!" from someone who hasn't given religion in the RPG setting a lot of thought. Is there more to it?

Lunamancer, the thing about Runequest and Glorantha that makes it unique has nothing to do about invincible spirits or Christian references. It's all about myth and how it informs everything in the setting, from people's day to day habits to explanations for natural phenomena, and how it mimics the thinking of pre -modern civilizations and their beliefs and superstitions. Also, it makes religion integral to play at a mechanical level, since its the only way for characters to acquire actual by the rules. It's not a perfunctory aspect like in D&D where it's just excuse for spells - for characters to evolve, they must participate in community and uphold cult's beliefs that are explicitly written down for each of it's dozen cults.

Eg: The grass grow not because of some biological lifecycle, but because the Plant god fought the Earth god back in the old age for its freedom and won. So nowadays in the age of men, if your village face a hard drought, it must certainly be due to the presence of some tyrant just like in the old tales, and your people must reenact the deeds of the Plant God by rising and fighting the tyrant for their freedom. If they do it, they'll have abundant rain and crops for years to come, just like the old myths say. (see? in Runequest you don't build an irrigation system, divert a river, etc for taking care of the drought, no no no, you ask your grandma what the gods did in their time, and the answer she will give may look as nonsensic as your grandman today in real life telling you to pray for St. Cuttberth or making a little ritual with rue branches or something, to what you will probably say "WTF grandma, that's superstitious crap!", only the difference is in Runequest world the superstition work)  

TL;DR: Read Cults of Prax, then play King of Dragon Pass, and all this will be clear.

Where in RQ is the "reenact myth" stuff? I know that's in Glorantha, the setting, and in KoDP. Maybe in Hero Wars/Hero Quest.  But I never came across that in the core RQ rules other than allusions to heroquesting . Is it in Cults of Prax?

Well, first, define religion ...

Quote from: Itachi;986426Lunamancer, the thing about Runequest and Glorantha that makes it unique has nothing to do about invincible spirits or Christian references. It's all about myth and how it informs everything in the setting, from people's day to day habits to explanations for natural phenomena, and how it mimics the thinking of pre -modern civilizations and their beliefs and superstitions.

Meh. Sounds like smug modernist caricature of ancient beliefs and culture.

QuoteAlso, it makes religion integral to play at a mechanical level, since its the only way for characters to acquire actual by the rules. It's not a perfunctory aspect like in D&D where it's just excuse for spells - for characters to evolve, they must participate in community and uphold cult's beliefs that are explicitly written down for each of it's dozen cults.

Also meh. I don't equate "we cut off every other avenue of play" to be "we do religion real good." If there were dozens of different ways to engage in the game that have nothing to do with religion and yet everyone who plays seems to get really hooked into the religious aspects of play because it's so compelling, now that would be noteworthy.

Maybe you're just not explaining it in a way that appeals to my sensibilities, but this is really sounding like the polar opposite of what comes to my mind when I try to imagine an RPG that does religion well.

Pretty goofy to dismiss it without having read any of it. Particularly with loaded and meaningless 'modernist' slurs. Do you want to explain to us how Glorantha relates to James Joyce or something?

Quote from: Voros;986519Pretty goofy to dismiss it without having read any of it. Particularly with loaded and meaningless 'modernist' slurs. Do you want to explain to us how Glorantha relates to James Joyce or something?

Pretty goofy of you. I haven't dismissed anything. I'm asking questions. Whatever other people think the selling points are just seem trite to me. I have no idea what James Joyce has to do with anything. Are you just triggered by the word modernist or something?