Quote from: Dumarest;979833Given that Texas and Iowa combined are twice the size of California and yet produce almost the same dollar amount as California per your figures, what do you think they're doing wrong that their production is only half as high? Also, it should be clear that dollar value of agricultural products doesn't have anything to do with the quantity of said products. So I'm not sure what you're trying to compare there except to say that the next two biggest agricultural states don't produce much in comparison?

Iowa is 34% of the area of California yet it produces 60% as much agricultural output. So the question isn't "What are Iowa farmers doing wrong?" but "What are California farmers doing wrong?"

Quote from: Bren;980939Iowa is 34% of the area of California yet it produces 60% as much agricultural output. So the question isn't "What are Iowa farmers doing wrong?" but "What are California farmers doing wrong?"

Well, having a sister in California...

Much of the cropland in California is semiarid to arid.  Expensive housing is on good land and crops are raised in the stuff rich people don't want.

Plus chronic lack of water for years.

Quote from: Bren;980939Iowa is 34% of the area of California yet it produces 60% as much agricultural output. So the question isn't "What are Iowa farmers doing wrong?" but "What are California farmers doing wrong?"

Got some facts to support that?

Quote from: Dumarest;980944Got some facts to support that?

Yes. I used the numbers in Charon's post of 34.8 and 21 for CA and IA respectively. The land area for the two states are 163,696 and 56,272 respectively. The calculations are just simple arithmetic.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;980940Plus chronic lack of water for years.

Oh yeah. CA has been importing water and depleting aquifers for decades to support green lawns and agriculture. The water usage is not sustainable long term.

Quote from: Bren;980939Iowa is 34% of the area of California yet it produces 60% as much agricultural output. So the question isn't "What are Iowa farmers doing wrong?" but "What are California farmers doing wrong?"

Living in CA, the answer is very simple: most produce does not receive the level of subsidization that most grain and cattle do. This was a deliberate two pronged gov't-business choice: 1) response to the Dust Bowl instability, 2) 1950s Cold War era food security decision was pegged to calories -- not nutrition -- hence the sidelining of most produce for assistance.

It also explains an explosion in carbohydrates, issues of the primacy of sugar production (including fructose variants) and finding a market for them, and a depletion of general nutrition throughout our national diet with an ever increasing glycemic load on the standard American diet (very noticeable from size portions to older recipes with more nutrient dense produce over the decades).

(Watch that "invisible hand of the market" up the mass production muppet's ass make them lips move. :rolleyes: )

Interesting but I'd like to see the sources for the numbers. But I dont care enough to look for them.

I wonder if I started a thread about US produce production percentages by state if the subject would change over to role-playing games at some point?

Quote from: RunningLaser;981049I wonder if I started a thread about US produce production percentages by state if the subject would change over to role-playing games at some point?

Of course it would, and then it would degenerate into something about "social justice warriors."

Quote from: Dumarest;981037Interesting but I'd like to see the sources for the numbers. But I dont care enough to look for them.

The Wikipedia entry for the state gives you it's area. I don't know where Charon got his numbers for agricultural output by state but those were the numbers he, and you, used.

Opa's info about shifting diet and subsidy matches what I've heard elsewhere but falls under the heading of "can't be arsed to look it up."

Omnivore's Dilemma talks about corn subsidies and the effect on the US diet.

So there's this fun little computer game, Mount & Blade. In it you have a guy running around having adventures, and they can pick up some followers, men-at-arms types. You don't have to feed them but if you don't they tend to get depressed and drift off after a bit. So it's wise to get food and put it in the inventory for them to eat up. And it's not just "food", it's cheese or milk or beef or whatever. This affects morale, they're happier with wine than bread, for example.

I recall on the forum for the game someone was asking what people liked to feed their guys, and one person said,
"My men eat what men eat - nothing but ale and sausages!"

So next time I played, I had this magic-user Iago, and he hired a bunch of men-at-arms, and supplied them with lots of ale and sausages. The DM said something about constipation but Iago wasn't listening.

Crom laughs at your high-fructose corn syrup! ALE AND SAUSAGES FOR EVERYONE!

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;981206So there's this fun little computer game, Mount & Blade. In it you have a guy running around having adventures, and they can pick up some followers, men-at-arms types. You don't have to feed them but if you don't they tend to get depressed and drift off after a bit. So it's wise to get food and put it in the inventory for them to eat up. And it's not just "food", it's cheese or milk or beef or whatever. This affects morale, they're happier with wine than bread, for example.

I recall on the forum for the game someone was asking what people liked to feed their guys, and one person said,
"My men eat what men eat - nothing but ale and sausages!"

So next time I played, I had this magic-user Iago, and he hired a bunch of men-at-arms, and supplied them with lots of ale and sausages. The DM said something about constipation but Iago wasn't listening.

Crom laughs at your high-fructose corn syrup! ALE AND SAUSAGES FOR EVERYONE!

You forgot how they also like A verity of foods to eat and you get A bonus for such.

Pffft! Ale and sausages!

Quote from: Willie the Duck;979711How are the farmer's markets in CA?

I live in Hollyweird and I am a spoiled brat foodie. I'd be a pretentious hipster except I get really hungry and can't stand food trendiness.

Our farmer's markets are hit and miss. I buy $1 of stuff from a vendor, start chewing and decide if I'll buy more. Most of the time I won't. The better vendors put out bits for noshing and even then I often feel I'm paying x2 for 10% better, but I like to support mom & pop farms.

Overall though, I am getting concerned about a declining quality in produce.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;981206Crom laughs at your high-fructose corn syrup!

I nearly pee'd myself.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;981206So there's this fun little computer game, Mount & Blade. In it you have a guy running around having adventures, and they can pick up some followers, men-at-arms types. You don't have to feed them but if you don't they tend to get depressed and drift off after a bit. So it's wise to get food and put it in the inventory for them to eat up. And it's not just "food", it's cheese or milk or beef or whatever. This affects morale, they're happier with wine than bread, for example.

I recall on the forum for the game someone was asking what people liked to feed their guys, and one person said,
"My men eat what men eat - nothing but ale and sausages!"

So next time I played, I had this magic-user Iago, and he hired a bunch of men-at-arms, and supplied them with lots of ale and sausages. The DM said something about constipation but Iago wasn't listening.

Crom laughs at your high-fructose corn syrup! ALE AND SAUSAGES FOR EVERYONE!

  LOL.   I seem to always stuff my tired mercs with salted fish and bread.   Only for sieges do I spring for pork or ale.