Quote from: Voros;969377GH is seperate. I was just mentioning it to provide context and show it was put out before FR. Also proving that Gygax was not as opposed to setting material as others claim.

Keep in mind that by that time Gary was well on his way to being removed from TSR. They had sent him off to Hollywood in 85.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969433The hype came from the novels, really.

I get that. And the video games expanded the fanbase.

But as a RPG setting? I was really shocked by the FR canon monkeys when I ran 4e LFR events. People really love that setting.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969433To be fair, so is Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk and all the other settings.

Greyhawk gets a pass. It was the first.

I agree about Eberron, but not Dark Sun.

Dark Sun has lots of interesting bits and concepts outside of the "basics of genre" vanilla fantasy.

Quote from: Spinachcat;969462I get that. And the video games expanded the fanbase.

But as a RPG setting? I was really shocked by the FR canon monkeys when I ran 4e LFR events. People really love that setting.

I don't get the love, but given the market saturation of the various mediums as you described, it's a setting that resonates with a lot of geeks from the 80's and 90's.  Remember, a lot of us had multiple hobbies, D&D/RPGs weren't the only ones, and reading fantasy books and video games (especially the RPGs) that took inspiration from D&D, we devoured.

Quote from: Spinachcat;969462Greyhawk gets a pass. It was the first.

I give NOTHING a pass.

Quote from: Spinachcat;969462I agree about Eberron, but not Dark Sun. Dark Sun has lots of interesting bits and concepts outside of the "basics of genre" vanilla fantasy.

Sorry, I should have clarified, my mind dumped the words vanilla and generic.  I meant all of them were hombrews with professional artwork.  So I'll agree with most of them not being very generic.  I'll disagree with you on Eberron, at least in concept.  It was meant to be a high pulp setting, that it wasn't was more the fault of the system they shackled it to.

But we're more or less aligned here.

Quote from: Omega;969444Keep in mind that by that time Gary was well on his way to being removed from TSR. They had sent him off to Hollywood in 85.

What is this in reference to? The boxset in 83'? He wrote it himself didn't he, using some material from others that had appeared in Dragon? Or is it a case of his name being on the book but someone else actually writing it, like David Cook and OA?

And 'they' didn't 'send him off to Hollywood' in 85'. By Oct 85' Gygax was out on his ass. Gygax was working in Hollywood to some degree from at least 81' and was in charge of all film and TV property development by 83', which was clearly the plum position not some exile.

Gygax obviously wanted to go and try to make it big in HW financially and otherwise. Who could blame him? This guy use to be a part-time cobbler and this was his big break. And by 82/83' it was clear that Gygax and the Blumes had massively overestimated revenues and the company was rapidly under water.  Hollywood was the only way they were likely to keep growing. Unfortunately Gygax was betting it all on a mediocre James Goldsmith script (and despite his later claims Peterson proves he supported the infamous needlework company purchase). Imagine if they had hooked up with Milius instead?

Was refferencing the The D&D cartoon which was in 85. And that had Garys input. Meant to say he was still out at Hollywood by 85. Not sure when they sent him off.

Got it. Nostalgia aside that was a terrible cartoon but the 80s weren't exactly a golden age of TV animation. That fucking unicorn...but that one girl did have killer fur boots.

Quote from: CRKrueger;969397That's obviously what he loved about GMing, was making the world and the campaign and running it.  He just figured people would want rules to make their own and run it, not give them one and the rules to run it.

Someone told him, "Dude, it sells."
"Ok."

I just changed my FLGS sandbox campaign from my own AD&D-inspired homebrew to Greyhawk. I am changing virtually nothing except the map. Immediately got a full sign-up sheet...so it sells in more ways than one.

I've always had way less love for the cartoon that most D&D fans I know. I mean, even as a kid, watching it back then, I was like "this makes D&D seem lame".

Quote from: RPGPundit;970413I've always had way less love for the cartoon that most D&D fans I know. I mean, even as a kid, watching it back then, I was like "this makes D&D seem lame".

All U.S. 1980s Saturday morning kids shows were the same. Idiot plots by writers who didn't care where idiot protagonists only succeed because the antagonists were even more idiotic. Didn't matter if the show was D&D or GI Joe or Gummy Bears or a Rubik's Cube (not joking), the plots and characterizations were the same. I'm surprised that at no point in the D&D cartoon were they saved by a roving gang of Harlem Globetrotters.

OMG, I totally remember the Rubik's Cube cartoon, and the Harlem Globetrotters cartoon! Did anyone else remember Kid Video, Alf, and the Jackson 5 cartoons? :cool: (these might explain why my generation is fucked in the head...)

Quote from: RPGPundit;970413I've always had way less love for the cartoon that most D&D fans I know. I mean, even as a kid, watching it back then, I was like "this makes D&D seem lame".

The cartoon isnt set in the Forgotten Realms. Its its own setting called "The Realm". Keep on the Borderlands is also set in some place called "The Realm" though I dont think there is a connection between BX and the cartoon despite the Quest for the Heartstone module being for BX.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;970423All U.S. 1980s Saturday morning kids shows were the same. Idiot plots by writers who didn't care where idiot protagonists only succeed because the antagonists were even more idiotic. Didn't matter if the show was D&D or GI Joe or Gummy Bears or a Rubik's Cube (not joking), the plots and characterizations were the same. I'm surprised that at no point in the D&D cartoon were they saved by a roving gang of Harlem Globetrotters.

Have you ever actually watched the D&D cartoon? Apparently not.

Quote from: Opaopajr;970458OMG, I totally remember the Rubik's Cube cartoon, and the Harlem Globetrotters cartoon! Did anyone else remember Kid Video, Alf, and the Jackson 5 cartoons? :cool: (these might explain why my generation is fucked in the head...)

The Fat Albert cartoon was awesome, as I recall. Not sure what I would make of it now, at least it wasn't made just to sell toys.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;970423All U.S. 1980s Saturday morning kids shows were the same. Idiot plots by writers who didn't care where idiot protagonists only succeed because the antagonists were even more idiotic. Didn't matter if the show was D&D or GI Joe or Gummy Bears or a Rubik's Cube (not joking), the plots and characterizations were the same. I'm surprised that at no point in the D&D cartoon were they saved by a roving gang of Harlem Globetrotters.

Good thing you aren't painting with a broad brush and generalizing to the point of idiocy with that statement.

My son loved the D&D cartoon when he was 7-8. He's 10 now and really too old for it.
You have to consider the target demographic. It's not a bad cartoon for young children, it has a fair bit of depth in places actually. It's not surprising though that it was relentlessly mocked by the fellow 12 year olds at my boarding school in 1985, and did give us D&D players a hard time (more than the Satanic Panic!).