Are the Forgotten Realms Unfairly Hated? Or Totally Fairly Hated?

Voros · June 17, 2017, 03:50:03 PM

FR's first boxset was released in 1987. A Greyhawk folio was released in 1980, a boxset in 1983.

Dumarest · June 17, 2017, 03:53:59 PM

Quote from: Voros;969357FR's first boxset was released in 1987. A Greyhawk folio was released in 1980, a boxset in 1983.

I wonder how I missed them. I thought Greyhawk was a separate setting? Was it subsumed into the Forgotten Realm then?

RPGPundit · June 17, 2017, 04:00:57 PM

Quote from: Voros;968938Uh yeah because abolitionism, civil and women rights were totally not Liberal causes. :confused:

What the fuck is this?

You do not post about politics on threads in the main forum. Understood?

RPGPundit · June 17, 2017, 04:03:36 PM

Quote from: S'mon;968983"Classical Liberalism" is the Anglo-American post-Enlightenment ideology (derived especially from the writings of John Locke) of security from government interference, security of property, natural rights in one's labour. It was the driving ideology of the American Revolution (American War of Independence, to give it its proper description). It potentially supports abolitionism but there were classical liberals on both sides, since abolitionism supports the Natural Rights of the slaves (eg life/liberty/pursuit of happiness), but goes against the Property Rights of the owners, and at the time these were both considered legitimate Rights by some or other Classical Liberals.

However Classical Liberalism really has nothing to do with the notions of Christian charity that motivate soup kitchens & youth programs, and were secularised into Progressivism.

Hey!

You do NOT post about politics in threads on the main forum.

I don't get how this is hard to grasp?

People who are trying to turn a thread away from its original subject and toward political discussion will be assumed to either be seeking to politicize the discussion or to want to get the thread closed.

We will not be doing that. Instead, we will be punishing perpetrators. Be warned.

RPGPundit · June 17, 2017, 04:05:20 PM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;969020As much as I dislike the FR and Greenwood, I'm going to throw him a bone here. Roughly 4 million slaves were liberated at the cost of around 618,000 young men's lives, most of them conscripts. Of those liberated slaves, about a million died of starvation and disease within the first two years of their emancipation.

School textbooks will usually mention the first, but not really invite the reader to ponder its significance. The second is usually omitted completely, as it doesn't fit the story you're supposed to be learning.

This is not at all relevant to the topic of this thread. Stop posting about politics on the main forum or face being banned. I'm tired of asking nicely.

Voros · June 17, 2017, 04:05:55 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;969367What the fuck is this?

You do not post about politics on threads in the main forum. Understood?

It was in response to another poster dragging politics into the thread and meant ironically, but understood. I'm certainly not on favour of threads derailing into politics all the time.

Voros · June 17, 2017, 04:08:20 PM

Quote from: Dumarest;969361I wonder how I missed them. I thought Greyhawk was a separate setting? Was it subsumed into the Forgotten Realm then?

GH is seperate. I was just mentioning it to provide context and show it was put out before FR. Also proving that Gygax was not as opposed to setting material as others claim.

Bedrockbrendan · June 17, 2017, 04:10:17 PM

Because this is already on the next page, folks should check out Pundit's responses on the previous page about Politics in the main forum.

EOTB · June 17, 2017, 04:18:54 PM

Quote from: Voros;969377GH is seperate. I was just mentioning it to provide context and show it was put out before FR. Also proving that Gygax was not as opposed to setting material as others claim.

People do change. I've never seen people say that Gygax was always against setting material, but its been discussed that during the mid-70s he thought setting material wasn't going to sell. Judges Guild changed his thinking. Context matters.

crkrueger · June 17, 2017, 04:20:14 PM

Quote from: Omega;969275Dug out my AD&D and FR comics. FR was written by Jeff Grub, not Ed Greenwood. Though Ed did later write a really shoddy FR comic.

How much of the Realms is Greenwoof's and how much is Grubb's?

I think it's safe to see Grubb as the new "Shepherd of the Realms" as occurring around the time in Dragon Magazine that the articles that had an intro starting off with a conversation as if Elminster was talking to Ed Greenwood about Realms stuff switched to Elminster talking to Jeff Grubb. That was about the time I heard that Greenwood became more of a FR Business Partner/Consultant, than the main writer, although he obviously kept his hand in and the paychecks coming.

Jeff had always been writing with Greenwood, even in Grey Box. I think the interrim period between first and second edition realms 1990 forward were Grubb taking over. The Second Edition Boxed Set Realms was more Grubb.

Voros · June 17, 2017, 04:32:09 PM

Quote from: EOTB;969383People do change. I've never seen people say that Gygax was always against setting material, but its been discussed that during the mid-70s he thought setting material wasn't going to sell. Judges Guild changed his thinking. Context matters.

Oh yeah I agree, I think Gygax was enough of a business man to realize if he could sell it why not? Just that you often see those quotes about 'why would you need someone else to make your adventure/world' without noting that he changed his mind. I think that statement of course was just from the hip and he probably hadn't considered that a lot of people didn't have the time to craft those things from scratch.

crkrueger · June 17, 2017, 04:35:14 PM

Quote from: Voros;969393Oh yeah I agree, I think Gygax was enough of a business man to realize if he could sell it why not? Just that you often see those quotes about 'why would you need someone else to make your adventure/world' without noting that he changed his mind. I think that statement of course was just from the hip and he probably hadn't considered that a lot of people didn't have the time to craft those things from scratch.

That's obviously what he loved about GMing, was making the world and the campaign and running it. He just figured people would want rules to make their own and run it, not give them one and the rules to run it.

Someone told him, "Dude, it sells."
"Ok."

Spinachcat · June 17, 2017, 06:12:31 PM

I do not like FR, but there isn't anything to hate there.

I just never understood the hype. It's a generic vanilla homebrew with professional artwork.

I bet most of us have either DM'd or played in an unpublished homebrew setting superior to FR.

Christopher Brady · June 17, 2017, 06:18:51 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat;969429I do not like FR, but there isn't anything to hate there.

I just never understood the hype.

The hype came from the novels, really.

Quote from: Spinachcat;969429It's a generic vanilla homebrew with professional artwork.

To be fair, so is Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk and all the other settings.

Quote from: Spinachcat;969429I bet most of us have either DM'd or played in an unpublished homebrew setting superior to FR.

And many, many more equally bland ones.

Omega · June 17, 2017, 06:32:52 PM

Quote from: Dumarest;969361I wonder how I missed them. I thought Greyhawk was a separate setting? Was it subsumed into the Forgotten Realm then?

They are separate. He was I believe pointing out that the Greyhawk boxed sets came out several years prior.

Kara-Tur came out in 88. Dont think it was originally hooked to the Realms. But it sure was later.