I can't name any titles off hand or name any of the performers, but does anyone recall all those old kung fu movies that used to get played late at night and on weekends on local TV stations before they discovered there was more money to be made by airing infomercials than in selling ad time? I used to watch the heck out of them. They always seemed to have a bad kung fu school master and his evil students who would of course harass the locals and abuse the good kung fu students and sometimes gang up and defeat/shame/humiliate/kill the good kung fu master, thereby forcing the best good student to take his revenge. I could never figure out what era in China these movies were supposed to be set in. Nobody seemed to have guns or motorcars. Everyone wore traditional garb. Whatever government there was seemed to be distant or hands-off as far as any sort of policing or regulation. Which leads me to ask if anyone can tell me:

(1) What era are those movies taking place in? Or is it just pure fantasy, a time that never was?

(2) Can you name some of those movies in that vein? I would love to see some of them again. (I do not enjoy the modern even-more-over-the-top kung fu movies where everyone flies around on wires, so I know they aren't any of those.)

(3) Would Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China be good for roleplaying in this genre and setting? Is there something more attuned to it (and don't say Hong Kong Action Theater, I don't care for gun-fu)?

Thanks in advance.

Quote from: Dumarest;960577(2) Can you name some of those movies in that vein? I would love to see some of them again. (I do not enjoy the modern even-more-over-the-top kung fu movies where everyone flies around on wires, so I know they aren't any of those.)

I'm sure Brendan will be along with his expertise on this subject... but in the meantime, I've been watching my way through the movie suggestions in Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate and I'm on the One Armed Swordsman movies, which seem to be just that sort of thing, schools of students fighting off students of other bad-guy masters.
The second one in the trilogy, Return of the One-Armed Swordsman is a real standout. The bad guys are such utter assholes, just ganging up and killing off students from any other group. It's great stuff.

Most of those movies were by The Shaw Brothers studios. If you have the El Rey Network, they show 4-5 of them every Thursday and Sunday.While I guess some are set in a specific era, they are basically are like how western fantasy movies are set in a generic medieval era, or westerns are set in a vague period between the civil war and 1900.

My personal favorites are Crippled Avengers: 5 Element Ninjas (yes, Ninjas are Japanese, but the Chinese are fighting them in this movie); 5 Deadly Venoms; The Battle Wizard (absolutely crazy); Come Drink With Me (more artistic, like the later Hidden Dragon movie); One Armed Swordsmen; House of Traps, Masked Avengers

Legendary Weapons of China is one set I guess around 1900, after the Boxer Rebellion. One of the few to feature guns (the plot of the movie is to find martial artists who can beat guns)

I know nothing about either of those games. I think D&D works okay, you just have to be descriptive when describing the fights.

Quote from: Dumarest;960577I can't name any titles off hand or name any of the performers, but does anyone recall all those old kung fu movies that used to get played late at night and on weekends on local TV stations before they discovered there was more money to be made by airing infomercials than in selling ad time? I used to watch the heck out of them.

As has been said -

Haul ass to the El Rey Network.  It's...it's all the shows you'd expect to see in a Man Cave.  And they do Kung Fu Theater.  Twice a week, hours and hours of the sort of hi-yah chop socky shitty lip synch "comfort food tv" stuff I (and you) used to watch.

I damn near wept when I stumbled on it for the first time.

El Rey is fucking majestic. As most TV devolves into a swamp of cheap reality shows it's a movie-lover's Nirvana.  

When I was young and had a stick up my ass I used to regard Palladium games with snobbish contempt, but I picked up a cheap copy of Ninjas & Superspies at a con auction last Summer and it's a neat little gem of a game.

Quote from: Dumarest;960577(1) What era are those movies taking place in? Or is it just pure fantasy, a time that never was?

(2) Can you name some of those movies in that vein? I would love to see some of them again. (I do not enjoy the modern even-more-over-the-top kung fu movies where everyone flies around on wires, so I know they aren't any of those.)

(3) Would Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China be good for roleplaying in this genre and setting? Is there something more attuned to it (and don't say Hong Kong Action Theater, I don't care for gun-fu)?

Thanks in advance.

1: Some are set in the Tang Dynasty, Which spanned 618-900. Some are in the Five dynasties era 900-960. And a few are stated to be, or obviously are set in the Qing dynasty 1644-1912. Flying Guillotine is set in the Qing era for example. Detective Di is set in the Tang Dynasty.

2: go to the Movies thread here and you'll see recently we've been discussing alot of martial arts movies. Personal favourites are Jin Bei Tong/Kid with the Golden Arm, Flying Guillotine, 18 Bronze men, and several others.

3: Ninjas & Superspies is pretty good. I like TSR's Oriental Adventures stripped of the Japanese elements.

Yep, check the Movie Thread Brendan and the rest of us have been discussing Shaw Bros and other martial arts classics. My input is usually 'That movie is awesome!'

In a nutshell: watch anything directed by King Hu, Chang Cheh and Chia-Liang Liu and you're off to a good start.

Quote from: Omega;9606341: Some are set in the Tang Dynasty, Which spanned 618-900. Some are in the Five dynasties era 900-960. And a few are stated to be, or obviously are set in the Qing dynasty 1644-1912. Flying Guillotine is set in the Qing era for example. Detective Di is set in the Tang Dynasty.

Thank you. Very interesting.

Thank you all.

I have never heard of the (redundant the) El Rey Network.

I checked and I don't/can't get that channel.

Quote from: Omega;9606341: Some are set in the Tang Dynasty, Which spanned 618-900. Some are in the Five dynasties era 900-960. And a few are stated to be, or obviously are set in the Qing dynasty 1644-1912. Flying Guillotine is set in the Qing era for example. Detective Di is set in the Tang Dynasty.

2: go to the Movies thread here and you'll see recently we've been discussing alot of martial arts movies. Personal favourites are Jin Bei Tong/Kid with the Golden Arm, Flying Guillotine, 18 Bronze men, and several others.

3: Ninjas & Superspies is pretty good. I like TSR's Oriental Adventures stripped of the Japanese elements.

1. Thanks a bunch!

2. Thanks again!

3. Thanks, but I don't play D&D when I can avoid it. After you strip the Japanese elements, isn't there not much left from that book? I seem to recall it was about 90% fantasy Japan and 10% fantasy other East Asia.

Quote from: Dumarest;9606893. Thanks, but I don't play D&D when I can avoid it. After you strip the Japanese elements, isn't there not much left from that book? I seem to recall it was about 90% fantasy Japan and 10% fantasy other East Asia.

Dont have the books handy but I believe there was a note in there for renaming some of the OA classes to something more China themed. Or DIY. The rest you can drop and not impact the game at all if need be. Samurai, Ninja, etc. Theres enough overlap that just come renaming can cover.

Quote from: Dumarest;960577I can't name any titles off hand or name any of the performers, but does anyone recall all those old kung fu movies that used to get played late at night and on weekends on local TV stations before they discovered there was more money to be made by airing infomercials than in selling ad time? I used to watch the heck out of them. They always seemed to have a bad kung fu school master and his evil students who would of course harass the locals and abuse the good kung fu students and sometimes gang up and defeat/shame/humiliate/kill the good kung fu master, thereby forcing the best good student to take his revenge. I could never figure out what era in China these movies were supposed to be set in. Nobody seemed to have guns or motorcars. Everyone wore traditional garb. Whatever government there was seemed to be distant or hands-off as far as any sort of policing or regulation. Which leads me to ask if anyone can tell me:

(2) Can you name some of those movies in that vein? I would love to see some of them again. (I do not enjoy the modern even-more-over-the-top kung fu movies where everyone flies around on wires, so I know they aren't any of those.)

Thanks in advance.

Any of the Shaw Brothers movies from the last sixty years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Shaw_Brothers_films#1969

...also
Enter the Dragon
Fists of Fury
Way of the Dragon
Big Boss
Circle of Death


...also
A Man Called Tiger
The Fate of Lee Khan

The Prodigal Son is pretty much a kung fu Citizen Kane I think.

How has BedrockBrendan not written here yet?!

Quote from: Dumarest;960577I can't name any titles off hand or name any of the performers, but does anyone recall all those old kung fu movies that used to get played late at night and on weekends on local TV stations before they discovered there was more money to be made by airing infomercials than in selling ad time? I used to watch the heck out of them. They always seemed to have a bad kung fu school master and his evil students who would of course harass the locals and abuse the good kung fu students and sometimes gang up and defeat/shame/humiliate/kill the good kung fu master, thereby forcing the best good student to take his revenge. I could never figure out what era in China these movies were supposed to be set in. Nobody seemed to have guns or motorcars. Everyone wore traditional garb. Whatever government there was seemed to be distant or hands-off as far as any sort of policing or regulation. Which leads me to ask if anyone can tell me:

(1) What era are those movies taking place in? Or is it just pure fantasy, a time that never was?

The movies you are describing could be any number of things. Probably old Shaw Brothers and Golden Harvest movies. Could be Kung Fu or Wuxia. The era really can vary and even wearing traditional clothing isn't an automatic indication of time, since movies set at the turn of the century will still feature characters wearing traditional clothes. But if they are period pieces, it is likely any time up through the Qing Dynasty.

Do you remember any of the movie titles or can you track down one or two trailers so we have a better idea of what you are after.

There are a lot of genres and sub-genres. Some lean more on the fantastic, others don't. But only the more over the top genres take place in a pure fantasy setting (and those were not that common in the 70s). Most wuxia movies and period kung fu are set in a particular time. The characters are often historical or based on characters in literature and novels. Sometimes you are just supposed to know that without a time being announced at the start of the film.

Some do go for a more timeless feel. But even then, people will sometimes try to pin down the time based on the costumes or background events.

Quote(2) Can you name some of those movies in that vein? I would love to see some of them again. (I do not enjoy the modern even-more-over-the-top kung fu movies where everyone flies around on wires, so I know they aren't any of those.)

Your probably still going to encounter some of this over the top, leaping on roof tops stuff, unless you limit yourself to pure Kung Fu movies or the most gritty of wuxia. The earlier wuxia uses trampolines and trick cameras but they still emulate lightness kung fu (usually just not quite as much as the stuff in the 80s and 90s). The new school wuxia shaw brothers put out from about 1966 through the late 70s may fit the bill well for you. After that, Shaw Brothers started to dabble in more gonzo style period martial arts movies (still recommend many of those highly though, they just might not be what you are after).

I am still not 100% clear on exactly what kinds of movies you are after here. I will be a little loose with the time period thing. But some solid recommendations would be:

Last Hurrah for Chivalry, Killer Clans, Lady Whirlwind, Opium and the Kung Fu Master, Flag of Iron, Broken Oath, The Assassin, One Armed Swordsman, Killer Constable, Legendary Weapons of China, Shaolin Mantis, The Prodigal Son, Eight Diagram Pole Fighter, King Boxer, Web of Death (this one is a bit on the crazy side but has the rival sects and is a lot of fun), Young Master, Heroes Shed No Tears (also over the top with wires), etc.

There are a lot of other great movies I'd recommend but your parameters would make me hold off listing them. One thing to look for is directors names. If you see a movie you like, try finding other movies the have done (same with with action choreographers). I think you might like Chang Cheh.

It is probably outside the period you are looking for, but if you haven't seen Fists of Fury (sometimes called the Chinese Connection) with Bruce Lee, that has a lot of what you are describing in terms of themes.  

This is much more firmly in the wuxia camp, with some over the top stuff, but the Brave Archer trilogy is based on a one of the most popular source novels and some great fight sequences in it.

I suggest checking out the trailers of the movies people have recommended to find stuff that matches what you are looking for.

If you can overcome your aversion to wirework, there are a lot of great movies that feature many of the rival clan/revenge themes you mention. The Bride With White Hair is unbelievably good, as is the Swordsman series (particularly Swordsman II). Those are much later films though.

Quote(3) Would Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China be good for roleplaying in this genre and setting? Is there something more attuned to it (and don't say Hong Kong Action Theater, I don't care for gun-fu)?

What's not to like about Gun-Fu?

I am biased here, so I won't recommend anything. But there are tons of wuxia and martial arts games now. You should have an easy time finding systems that do what you want (or at least tweaking the closest systems you can to fit your taste). I am still not 100% clear on what you want though.