Quote from: The Ent;720861To be less farty about it:
*lotsa folks love elfs because purty and cooler than thou and other reasons
*lotsa folks love Dwarfs because drunk rude dude w/o social skills w/axe

Both Are very wish fulfillment, one in a "way cooler and prettier and so on than any person can ever be PLUS can be angsty about Being cool and purty" way, the other in a "total basement dweller but still considered cool and badass" way.

I've understood the appeal of the elf since before I had even heard the words "Dungeons & Dragons," but this is the very first time I think I may understand the appeal of the dwarf. So kudos to you, Ent!

Quote from: Silverlion;720894Let me point out--I'm a player that likes the fantastic. I'm a human in everyday life and I like to be something else. I don't necessarily need special abilities/bonuses to play the fantastic, I just like the option to play something different and distinct from my core self.

I'm not a fan of any fantasy race in particular, but I do think that one of the big aspects that makes D&D the biggest gorilla in the room -- other than being the first ttrpg of course -- is that D&D provides the opportunity to be someone completely different from oneself. Whether it's Tolkienesque races or more unusual additions to the game, it's no accident that so many splat books contain new PC races -- new playable races sell, because most players either want to play something non-human or aren't bothered by those who do. We on gamer forums can argue all day long about whether the average elf or dwarf PC is a properly and fundamentally non-human character, or is a fundamentally human character with a few cliche traits. But the fact remains that many players want to play non-humans, and in fact I'd bet good money that if D&D were to go humanocentric, some other ttrpg would take its place as top dog within a decade.

So as with all DMing preferences, ya gotta pick your battles. Is this something that I feel strongly about, that just rubs me the wrong way, that will sap my will to run the game at all? Boot it, and accept the fact that your pool of potential players is somewhat smaller. Is this something that I kinda don't like or don't see the point of, but can work into my setting, that I can live with? Unless you're already drowning in amazing players, maybe make this concession as a token of goodwill toward the group of people who you're going to be spending hours of your life with, hopefully over the course of many years.

I ran into the only-play-X sort many years ago.

First time was in the early 90s, when I wanted to run a human-only game in a homebrewed setting. Had a few flip their shit and whine like little bitches over not getting their elfwank on, but they buckled down and played. Came up with memorable characters that still get name-checked when we catch up now. Never had dwarfwank issues, however; the all-dwarf game I ran worked fine. Just elfwank is all I've ever run into, and it's a reliable tell that I'm going to have problems ever since.

Current setting is also human-only, and also Core Four only for classes (Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User, Thief). Got more classwank whining than racewank whining, even after explaining how the setting's long-term play model works (and thus that additional playable character options can be added later, if you work for them). Can't be bothered to put up with such wankery or whining anymore, not with a global player pool, so fuck the wankers.

No, OP,you're under no obligation to accommodate elves, dwarves ordragonborn, and IMO changing now would be unfair to your current players:).

Quote from: Necrozius;952900Funny enough the only Elves and Dwarves that I'm interested in are Tolkien's. Everywhere else (and I mean everywhere) they feel like boring, pale copies. Sacrilege, I know.

Talislanta is the one where elves are actually sentient plants, right? But they still look like elves and behave like elves, right? Frankly I don't care if a fantasy author's version of elves have an origin in Dragon Shit, they're still elves. Meh.

You're thinking of Glorantha, and Gloranthan elves aren't really elves,culture-wise.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;953493It's fucking fetishism.

To be fair, most often no fucking is involved;).

Quote from: AsenRG;953606To be fair, most often no fucking is involved;).

But but... Then how would we get half elves? And half orcs, and... tieflings(depending on the edition)... and elflings(tallfellow halflings), and dwarflings(stout halflings)... and... :confused:

Quote from: Daztur;720882Have been running a dwarf fortress D&D game for the last few months in which the only PC clasd allowed is dwarf? It has beeb glorious. I think a lot can be said for the classic D&D races but I like random grab bag adventuring parties less and less. Having a unified theme to riff off is fun.

I miss that campaign.

Quote from: Omega;953624But but... Then how would we get half elves? And half orcs, and... tieflings(depending on the edition)... and elflings(tallfellow halflings), and dwarflings(stout halflings)... and... :confused:

I mean "no fucking is involved in the fact that the player wants to play a very specific version of himself or herself". Meaning, any fucking the character might be participating in, has nothing to do with the above fact.

Besides, you don't want to know my theories about how elves reproduce:D!

Quote from: The Ent;720861Elves and dwarves embody archetypes that strike strong chords with people.

*ahem*

To be less farty about it:
*lotsa folks love elfs because purty and cooler than thou and other reasons
*lotsa folks love Dwarfs because drunk rude dude w/o social skills w/axe

Both Are very wish fulfillment, one in a "way cooler and prettier and so on than any person can ever be PLUS can be angsty about Being cool and purty" way, the other in a "total basement dweller but still considered cool and badass" way.

Also of course in AD&D elfs and Dwarfs have great big advantages at low levels and the party might never reach High levels anyway (and in 2e they stay cool for way longer than in 1e Even if the party does reach High levels).

Very accurate I'd say
Also dwarves are not only a bit crude but are also tech savvy. I have a feeling that a lot of people simply play themselves (slightly exaggerated) when playing dwarves. Hobbits too: chubby, lazy, but talented and loveable.

Quote from: Necrozius;952900Funny enough the only Elves and Dwarves that I'm interested in are Tolkien's. Everywhere else (and I mean everywhere) they feel like boring, pale copies. Sacrilege, I know.

Talislanta is the one where elves are actually sentient plants, right? But they still look like elves and behave like elves, right? Frankly I don't care if a fantasy author's version of elves have an origin in Dragon Shit, they're still elves. Meh.

I love Tolkien, so that's generally my preference too, but I have two other options that I have never tried:
Elves as in Poul Anderson's Broken Sword. This would be awesome. But they can't use iron.
Elves NOT as PCs but only something closer to what they probably were like to people way back: spirits that look like beautiful people, associated with certain places, and that can bring good or bad luck. You can make offerings to them to be on their good side.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;953493It's fucking fetishism.

No, that fetish is why I got married.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;953485the guy who wanted to play an elf in a Star Wars campaign

* 10 seconds of dead silence *

"What the fuck is WRONG with you?"

Quote from: Black Vulmea;953095You should totally sue him for fraud if he doesn't deliver.

But do you have to wear a mask while you referee it?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;953775* 10 seconds of dead silence *

"What the fuck is WRONG with you?"

Or a Star Trek campaign or a Warhammer 40000 campaign?

Nah, it's easy to drop Elves into Star Wars.  Your race is ancient, strange and reclusive, they practice The Force and live long ages.  They kicked you out for being a douche and then put a bounty on your head, wanted dead, not too picky about state of body.

I wish I had video of the one guy's face when the Celtic human sacrificing elves in my Rolemaster campaign demanded a victim in exchange for allowing them to escort freed slaves and refugees across the elven lands.  It wasn't the last time we saw that look of shock and horror.  When he met his character's family with all their secrets and intrigues was pretty good too.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;953775* 10 seconds of dead silence *

"What the fuck is WRONG with you?"

Or just "you mean your character is the scion of the colony of weirdos that genengineered themselves to look like a shared fetish"?

Quote from: AsenRG;953857Or just "you mean your character is the scion of the colony of weirdos that genengineered themselves to look like a shared fetish"?

Ooooh, you're evil!  I like that!

Quote from: Trond;953695Very accurate I'd say
Also dwarves are not only a bit crude but are also tech savvy. I have a feeling that a lot of people simply play themselves (slightly exaggerated) when playing dwarves.

Are you suggesting that the average gamer is a crude, tech savvy, socially stunted bearded guy who lives underground?

Man, some stereotype never die.

Quote from: David Johansen;953779Or a Star Trek campaign or a Warhammer 40000 campaign?

What would be the point of dropping elves into Star Trek?