Wait, are you suggesting that gamers, as a whole, are too reticent on sharing their opinions about what the gaming companies 'should' be doing? Every experience I've had on the internet, at the FLGS, on social media, or anywhere else informs my impression that if you stick 5 gamers in a room you'll come out with 6 incompatible, passionately held ideas regarding "what gaming needs to do to save itself."

Quote from: Spinachcat;951179The fucking collectors and shithouse readers are paying the bills and keeping the lights on.

For the 'game companies,' perhaps, but if that's the case, pull the plug and let them die, gasping in their mediocrity and irrelevance. Let the creatives who do it for love and beer money dance on their fucking graves.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;951404Wait, are you suggesting that gamers, as a whole, are too reticent on sharing their opinions about what the gaming companies 'should' be doing?

Not at all - I'm saying that insular, chickenshit gamers who 'only play with friends' don't get to complain that game companies are doing enough to expand the number of roleplayers.

Yeah, I totally get your confusion - I worded that about as awkwardly as I could on that first pass, but whaddya want from a foul-tempered near-illiterate?

Quote from: Black Vulmea;951405For the 'game companies,' perhaps, but if that's the case, pull the plug and let them die, gasping in their mediocrity and irrelevance. Let the creatives who do it for love and beer money dance on their fucking graves.

And that sort of mentality is what we dont need. Why the hell spit on the people who want to DM but just arent good at improving? For them modules and background books are useful or in a few cases even vital.

Quote from: Omega;951407Why the hell spit on the people who want to DM but just arent good at improving?

Or just don't want to spend hours on prep time before each session.  Those stupid jobs/kids/etc. keep eating up their important gaming prep time.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;951403And gamers clutch their pearls about why the 'hobby' doesn't 'grow.'

Hiding in little insular groups, afraid to go out and meet people for fear of being judged or unwilling to take risks on other human beings - don't ever utter a fucking peep about what 'game companies' should be doing to expand the market,

No. As I said, I mostly game with friends, whether those fans were gamers or not. I've never hidden gaming from anyone in my various workplaces and non-gaming activities, which has allowed me to recruit a lot of people. I bring people into my games because they are fun, interesting people I want to hang out with, not because they are established gamers.

Do people joke about my gaming? Sure. I don't really care though. It's always good-natured, and once I have shown I can take a joke about it, people that might have felt self-conscious about it tend to be more open to it. Often its the people cracking the most jokes that end up at the table.

I stopped worrying about whether the hobby grows or how the industry does years ago because I am confident I will always be able to get a group together if I really want to game. I've been running a game for my nephews as well. Maybe they will continue with RPGs. Maybe they won't. I'd like it if they did, but I'm not going to despondent if they do other things with their life. I just don't feel I have an obligation push it on them. If people of future generations would rather do other things in their spare time, that's their business.

Quote from: Omega;951407Why the hell spit on the people who want to DM but just arent good at improving?

If the sword is too heavy, grow stronger.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951409Or just don't want to spend hours on prep time before each session.

Random shit up.

I 'prep' every time I read a book, watch a movie, or listen to my children talking. The ability to improvise comes from a prepared mind.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;951415Random shit up.

I 'prep' every time I read a book, watch a movie, or listen to my children talking. The ability to improvise comes from a prepared mind.

Unfortunately some of the most unimaginative people I have come across are gamers.

Quote from: Baulderstone;951410I bring people into my games because they are fun, interesting people I want to hang out with, not because they are established gamers.

Gold star for you, 'stones, but the willingness to take a chance on gaming with complete strangers offers an unlimited horizon.

I've played with people whom I wouldn't let within five miles of my family, because they're fun to play games with, not because I'm looking for life partners.

I game with Baulderstone. He is good people. Never seen him have any issue with new folks at the table. I don't mind playing with strangers myself, but my regular groups tend to be made up of people I get along with and who bring something to the table. Meeting new people and testing the waters with them is a good way to find such players. However getting along with folks is an important part of play for me. If someone gets on my nerves the whole time, I don't see the point in gaming with them.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;951417Gold star for you, 'stones, but the willingness to take a chance on gaming with complete strangers offers an unlimited horizon.

I've played with people whom I wouldn't let within five miles of my family, because they're fun to play games with, not because I'm looking for life partners.

As far as getting more folks on board, I'm with Black. Hit some folks up and play. This is how I've discovered a few pearls who became staples of the home campaign. As far as long term play, it's about good and actual friends, because I play at my home, and I'm a bit picky. This will change in a few months. I'll be moving to another state, to a smaller home (we're downsizing), and will be losing the ol' group (unless we game online).  But I'm looking forward to starting fresh (again).

On a related note, we had "Fun Friday" at my current school just before the break, and I introduced some 9-year olds to the concept via the Dungeon! board game. They are one step away from being hooked FOREVER! :-)

Quote from: cranebump;951424As far as getting more folks on board, I'm with Black. Hit some folks up and play. This is how I've discovered a few pearls who became staples of the home campaign. As far as long term play, it's about good and actual friends, because I play at my home, and I'm a bit picky. This will change in a few months. I'll be moving to another state, to a smaller home (we're downsizing), and will be losing the ol' group (unless we game online).  But I'm looking forward to starting fresh (again).

On a related note, we had "Fun Friday" at my current school just before the break, and I introduced some 9-year olds to the concept via the Dungeon! board game. They are one step away from being hooked FOREVER! :-)

I had a similar experience with some friends I met via a religious group. They were total newbs and now they are totally hooked! We play most SAT nights. Our enthusiasm for the hobby and willingness to share that are more profound than ANY program a publisher could invent.

I like meeting new gamers because, as others have already pointed out, it broadens my perception of play styles... and I also learn about new things (usually behaviours) to avoid.

Also I love the look on new players' faces when they realise that GMs don't HAVE to be wholly antagonistic and railroad-y. When they realise that the GM (me) doesn't already have a pre-written book in his head about the campaign.

But yeah if a player is kind of an asshole, and they're no fun in-game AND out of it, screw them, they're out.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;951406Not at all - I'm saying that insular, chickenshit gamers who 'only play with friends' don't get to complain that game companies are doing enough to expand the number of roleplayers.

Fair enough; I'm one of those insular chickenshit gamers, but on the other hand I don't give a splattering shit about game companies.  If every game company in the world closed tomorrow, I sincerely doubt it would affect my gaming at all.

Actually, I DO play with people I hadn't met before, but they're already gamers.  I don't try to make new gamers, just like I don't try to make new model railroaders.