Quote from: rgrove0172;938742I respectfully disagree on so much of what you posted I'm not sure it's worth going into. I'll just bow out. Have a good one.

Germane to your micro-point.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19

If you can find this much to disagree with, surely in your certainty-bubble there exists some evidence of substance that supports your view other than your feelings?

I'll accept you think he's good at gonzo-over-the-top guilty-pleasure. Good writing? That's burden is on you.

Or you can cut and run and leave your poor defenseless positions laying there... dying... like someone shot them with 393-grams of 7.62NATO glory (unlike that limp-dick Russian knockoff) through their supraorbital ridge, where the shattered fragments of the copper jacket and bone shred the pre-frontal cortex driving white-hot spikes of dragon-fire, like the heart of a thousand-suns, behind their eyes. As the newly birthed full-metal steel-core, free of its copper egg-case, claws itself in naked hyper-velocity glory like a phoenix born at the dawn of creation, hurtling through the corpus callosum and exploding through the occipital ridge into a crimson explosion that for a moment appeared like a red rose before evaporating into a vermilion puddle of bone and brain-matter on the floor of the forum, shivering and twitching as the lifeless and brainless thing it was.

alas... maybe Grove was right after all.

I was thinking about Torg recently and something struck me that seems appropriate here. I see my settings rather like the Cosms in the Torg setting. They are "worlds" in that they physically exist outside of the fictional medium. But part of their makeup, their laws so to speak or World Laws are fictional tropes and to some degree events play out like they do in stories in the genre they represent. I think that's why games like Torg and The Strange appeal to me. I'm not saying that's the only way or the best way but its how I like it and its allowed me to create fun games for many people over the years.

Quote from: rgrove0172;938733I wouldnt argue one over the other only the appropriateness of both.

Who the fuck do you think you're kidding?

Quote from: rgrove0172;938703For Jerry it was never enough to say a guy got shot with a gun - rather something like "He squeezed the pacmyer grips and pulled the trigger on the nickel-plated .357 Colt Python, sighting down the front ramp at the center of the brigand's chest. The 200 grain, semi-hollow point round rocketed toward the target at over 1200 feet per second with deadly accuracy. There was an audible thump as the round's soft metal tip penetrated the thug just above his sternum, the impact mushrooming on impact and forming a savage cavitation wave and trail of destruction through the man's chest."

"And then the EARS, I get the IDEA, get ON with it."

Yes, like/dislike for writing is opinion.  It is my opinion that that paragraph is one of the worst pieces of shit I have ever read in my life.

Sometimes, what people consider "good gaming" is so far apart from each other that they cannot have a good game together.  This happens.

However, by now you should realize that at least in this community, your taste in prose and prolixity are at the far tail end of the local distribution curve.  Which is neither good nor bad, but simply means you aren't likely to get much support for your taste around here.

I don't like green peppers, so I don't go to websites that feature "1001 ways to cook green peppers."

Quote from: rgrove0172;938702Its not sufficient enough for me that they have a general idea or can strap on some conventional trope to my brief description in order to make it through the scene. I want them to experience the setting the way I intend.

I'm going to be charitable and assume that this reflects naivite rather than arrogance.

First, you absolutely cannot succeed.  You want (it seems) to insure that the pictures your players have in their heads is EXACTLY AND PRECISELY the picture you have in your head.

Ain't happening.

Different people are different, and they will never ever envision things the way you do.

Second, you said yourself that you want me to say "he's riding an Andalusian," even though you don't know what an Andalusian looks like.  So if you tell your players "He's riding an Andalusian" and none of your six players know what an Andalusian looks like either... THEY WILL ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT PICTURE IN THEIR HEADS.  You yourself have said you use words without knowing or caring exactly what they mean, and now you're saying you want your players to have exactly the correct picture in their heads.

These statements are literally antithetical; if you cannot see that then further discussion is literally impossible.  You cannot "use words without worrying about their precise meaning" AND  have them "experience the setting the way I intend."

Thirdly, the vast majority of the hundreds of people I've gamed with over the last 44 years DON'T GIVE A FUCK.  Seriously.  I have a BA in medieval history and a fairly sizeable library in both text and photos.  I have found:

They don't really care how a castle is built or what it looks like
They don't care what actual medieval clothes are called or what they look like
They don't care if the knight is wearing alwhyte, Gothic, Maximillian, or Greenwich armor.
They don't care what the inside of a medieval smithy actually looked like

They're there to play a game and have adventures.  If I say "the nobles are dressed like the nobles in 'The Princess Bride,' " they all nod happily and we get on with the game.

Quote from: rgrove0172;938712I agree entirely. I just cant buy the notion some have expressed here that such descriptions are a waste of time, amateurish and have no place at the roleplaying table.

And some of us can't buy the notion of fapping to long meaningless paragraphs of adjectives.

Substitute the word "opinion" in your sentence above and try again.

If it works for your table, nothing else actually matters.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;938725After reading that, I want somebody to put a .40 S&W Black Talon through the mid-line of my supraorbital ridge.

"Just kill me," said the barbarian.

But they will care if you make any of those things actually meaningful via PC interaction with them directly as a result of their desire to interact with them either by action or reaction.

We've been saying this to Grover dozens of times, dozens of different ways. His own contradictions as you, others, and myself continue to point out only fuels his cognitive dissonance to the real issue which he continues to ignore or rather chooses to be blind to.

Not that it matters - that's just your opinion, Geezer.


Edit: but I loves me some cognitive dissonance.

Quote from: rgrove0172;938703Now nobody is going to argue that most of that little blurb wasn't necessary information - but the intense detail served a purpose. It set a mood, it fostered emotion and for lack of a better term, it was 'cool' and those kinds of books were and are very popular. I can see how a GM may want to bring some of that into his game.

Yes, it set a mood and fostered emotion.

The mood is "Oh for fuck's SAKE will you shut up," and the emotion is disgust.

You may think it's cool.  Good for you.

Stop proclaiming that everyone who disagrees with you is objectively wrong.

Quote from: tenbones;938758Germane to your micro-point.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19

If you can find this much to disagree with, surely in your certainty-bubble there exists some evidence of substance that supports your view other than your feelings?

I'll accept you think he's good at gonzo-over-the-top guilty-pleasure. Good writing? That's burden is on you.

Or you can cut and run and leave your poor defenseless positions laying there... dying... like someone shot them with 393-grams of 7.62NATO glory (unlike that limp-dick Russian knockoff) through their supraorbital ridge, where the shattered fragments of the copper jacket and bone shred the pre-frontal cortex driving white-hot spikes of dragon-fire, like the heart of a thousand-suns, behind their eyes. As the newly birthed full-metal steel-core, free of its copper egg-case, claws itself in naked hyper-velocity glory like a phoenix born at the dawn of creation, hurtling through the corpus callosum and exploding through the occipital ridge into a crimson explosion that for a moment appeared like a red rose before evaporating into a vermilion puddle of bone and brain-matter on the floor of the forum, shivering and twitching as the lifeless and brainless thing it was.

alas... maybe Grove was right after all.

Its really not your points I disagree with tenbones, often I find myself leaning your way despite having felt differently for years. Your posts however are not so much presented as opinions but as inarguable facts. THIS is bad writing, THIS guy sucks. THIS is bad grammer, THIS is bad narrative, and so on. Your entitled to your opinion, and a worthy one it might well be but to voice it in such a manner just comes off hotty, egotistical and frankly detracts from whatever influence your reputation may have earned you here. That's just my $.02, take it or leave it. I would find your posts far more intriguing and motivating if they weren't shoved down my throat. End your posts with "IMHO" and we are good!

Quote from: Nexus;938760I was thinking about Torg recently and something struck me that seems appropriate here. I see my settings rather like the Cosms in the Torg setting. They are "worlds" in that they physically exist outside of the fictional medium. But part of their makeup, their laws so to speak or World Laws are fictional tropes and to some degree events play out like they do in stories in the genre they represent. I think that's why games like Torg and The Strange appeal to me. I'm not saying that's the only way or the best way but its how I like it and its allowed me to create fun games for many people over the years.

Yes, exactly. On the scale of cold, stark reality v.s. Hollywood overdrama - my games lean more to the latter and I work to make sure they do! That's just the way we like to play.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;938772

Who the fuck do you think you're kidding?

Take a break from you self proclaimed mastery of the great outdoors or whatever and READ. I have taken great strides to assert my opinion as just that, one opinion among many with no claim to superiority in any way. My threads are full of apologies and frustrated explanations but some of you just don't care. Its just too fun to bask in your own understanding and beat up on the minority.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;938776"And then the EARS, I get the IDEA, get ON with it."

Yes, like/dislike for writing is opinion.  It is my opinion that that paragraph is one of the worst pieces of shit I have ever read in my life.

Sometimes, what people consider "good gaming" is so far apart from each other that they cannot have a good game together.  This happens.

However, by now you should realize that at least in this community, your taste in prose and prolixity are at the far tail end of the local distribution curve.  Which is neither good nor bad, but simply means you aren't likely to get much support for your taste around here.

I don't like green peppers, so I don't go to websites that feature "1001 ways to cook green peppers."

Well Ill be fucked, the first bit of honesty Ive heard from you or several of your cronies yet. Im not likely to get much support around here, we don't like your kind in these parts, best you light a shuck!  I think I got it.

This will be my last thread, you can fucking bank on it.

Quote from: rgrove0172;938805Well Ill be fucked, the first bit of honesty Ive heard from you or several of your cronies yet. Im not likely to get much support around here, we don't like your kind in these parts, best you light a shuck!  I think I got it.

This will be my last thread, you can fucking bank on it.

Oh, boo fucking hoo.  I'm not going to tell you how wonderful your green pepper recipe is.  There are undoubtedly plenty of people who like green peppers, I'm just not one of them.  I make no apology for not liking green peppers.

Quote from: rgrove0172;938793Its really not your points I disagree with tenbones, often I find myself leaning your way despite having felt differently for years. Your posts however are not so much presented as opinions but as inarguable facts. THIS is bad writing, THIS guy sucks. THIS is bad grammer, THIS is bad narrative, and so on. Your entitled to your opinion, and a worthy one it might well be but to voice it in such a manner just comes off hotty, egotistical and frankly detracts from whatever influence your reputation may have earned you here. That's just my $.02, take it or leave it. I would find your posts far more intriguing and motivating if they weren't shoved down my throat. End your posts with "IMHO" and we are good!

Well that's because I'm treating you, like I treat everyone else here: like a fucking adult (well not like and adult I'd fuck, but you understand). Not like a semi-adult that needs to be coddled for the sake of their feelings. When in the context of describing someone's work in a negative light, with appropriate qualifiers, do I *need* to explain every little bit of minutiae and do a complete breakdown of a piece of work to make my point? Are some things not patently *obvious* to anyone with a shred of reason? Or is your opinion so tied to your emotions that you can't take a statement for face-value and simply put a counterpoint, or even a question? You know, like an adult? Or do you ascribe to this immature and naive post-modern view that all views are equal? All opinions are equally valid? All values are the same. They aren't. That's a childish notion and a childish demand and frankly I find it a bit crazy that any adult would literally demand that I treat them as such (even when your posts call for it through false-modesty.)

Instead you get passive-aggressive and say "well that's just your opinion." Which is what an immature thinker does. Case in point: WHAT doesn't fall into "IMHO"? Who am I being humble to in my opinion by saying Jerry's books are bad writing? Jerry's dead, Zed. If he were a client for editorial services - I'd probably be harsher. I didn't attack *him* as a person, I didn't even attack his fans. I said *clearly* he has them (fans). I said *clearly* it (his shitty writing) works for them - great! They gave him money for his work! But his writing is shit. WTF does that have to do WITH YOU, other than you brought it up as an example of something that inspires you in your GMing style? What emotional attack have I launched at YOU because I don't like Jerry's shitty writing and you do?

OH wait... that's right - this among many other threads is about YOU and your GMing style and YOU brought this up as example. YOU are the one asking questions. The same questions repeatedly, I might add - I'm not certain you even realize it. But in the interests of my love for GMing advocacy - here I am answering you alongside many others. You seem to be more interested in us agreeing with your feelings rather than actually listening to us constructively. When we call you on it - you "bow out" or move on. You don't see the thread that connects all of your posts that lead to the exact same spot: your feelings and beliefs about how you think you've been doing things based purely on your ego.

As for my "reputation" here... perhaps it might be of help to understand a few things about this place at least from my relatively short-time here: any reputation one has here, one has earned. Good or bad. This is a forum that largely attempts to allow all ideas onto the table. Good or bad. *I* personally have no clue what my reputation is around here nor do I care insofar as I find the chemistry here good for talking about gaming among other things. So that should tell you how much emotional stock I put into my concern with my reputation (hint: zero).

What I do put stock in is ideas and the weighing and measuring of ideas for use at the game-table. The folks on this forum have *LITERALLY* centuries of gaming experience added together. CENTURIES. Let that sink into your head for a second, beyond your incessant self-absorption that only cares about yourself. This forum is a ridiculously good resource for anyone wanting to learn a few things about our hobby. I try to put some thought and/or humor into my posts because people here will dissect and attack and defend and sometimes even agree on various observations lensed through these shared experiences. This is a place where you can have your ideas examined/attacked/tweaked/ruminated upon by others with a VASTLY larger set of perspectives greater than your own. You are the one that shows an amazing of naive blindness to that fact - you act like everyone here objectively is either wrong or doesn't seem to understand what you're talking about. I assure you: they do. The odd thing is you don't seem to be listening. You are not posting in good faith if you're not willing to have your positions criticized/supported in discussion.

I *sure* as fuck don't agree with everyone here on everything, and I sure as hell haven't been right on every position I have taken here and have had many people cause me to rethink those positions. I have zero problem telling anyone anything here that I don't agree with them and back it up (like right now) because I'm mature enough to let my ideas stand or fall on their own. So pull up your big-boy pants and stop pretending to ignore your problems which you post here and stop trying to get me to wet-nurse your feelings, because frankly I don't really care about your feelings as it pertains to these things. I find them abhorrently inappropriate and over-exaggerated.

Ideally, I'd like for you to let some of what your detractors have said and take a stab at it in good faith. Or not. But if you keep asking the same shit, you'll get the same response.


Oh, me so hotty. (sorry I couldn't help it!)