Quote from: darthfozzywig;937130. . . [T]he real focus was on perpetual "adventuring."

Yes, because perpetual adventuring makes your dice-cock grow longer, faster. That's why everything the adventurers did became suffused with gaining experience.

It has fuck-all to do with the endgame.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;937130The wargaming aspect was essentially a legacy that didn't fit with what the vast majority of new players were looking for.

On this at least we can agree.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;937149Yes, because perpetual adventuring makes your dice-cock grow longer, faster. That's why everything the adventurers did became suffused with gaining experience.

Again, wrong.

It's a matter of play style. The original endgame of D&D was a completely different game. It's like if in the final round of Trivial Pursuit, suddenly your little pie becomes a rolling tank in a first-person shooter, powered by the little pieces you've acquired. Maybe that's awesome, but if you hate FPS games, you're going to want to keep drawing cards and answering questions.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;937149It has fuck-all to do with the endgame.


On this at least we can agree.

I like your blog.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;937149makes your dice-cock grow longer, faster.

Ok, now I'm listening!  Over the years my dice-cock has become soft and mushy and dog-legs sharply to the left.

Quote from: Skarg;937131Like many early D&D rules, it seems to me that the DM's who don't have problems with the weird rules, do not use the weird rules, or adjust, overrule, or stop using them as soon as they become weird.

"Rule that makes no sense is fine because when we care that it doesn't make sense, the DM doesn't use that rule. Only am awful DM would actually use such a rule when it makes no sense."

It's interesting that this is used in replies as if it is a defense of the rules that make no sense.

False dichotomy.  Rules can make eminent sense in terms of making a game that works and plays well without making sense in the "fictional game world."  Hit points and XP for gold work to make a very well-playing game of a certain type.  Some of us just aren't pedantic assweasels.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;937149It has fuck-all to do with the endgame.

Nice blog.

Also, the first players were all wargamers.  Take a bunch of wargamers, give them lands, castles, treasuries, and armies, and stand back.  There WILL be wars.

(I have been called a big meanie for advocating this mindset.)

Quote from: RunningLaser;937151Ok, now I'm listening!  Over the years my dice-cock has become soft and mushy and dog-legs sharply to the left.

Take two 4e D&D Players Handbooks and call a doctor if you experience an erection lasting more than four hours or one combat encounter, whichever is longer.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;937150The original endgame of D&D was a completely different game.

Yes and no. The "endgame" began long before reaching name level and establishing a domain, through alliances and reciprocity, and once your character did establish a domain - something not all characters can do, actually - your henchmen continued to live lives of adventure.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;937153Take a bunch of wargamers, give them lands, castles, treasuries, and armies, and stand back.  There WILL be wars.

My Boot Hill character, aligned with the Cowboys and the Boosters, is angling to be sheriff, the second character, aligned with the cattlemen and the Wednesday Afternoon Bible Circle, is running for marshal, and the third character's troupe could end up tilting the election one way or the other.

There will be blood.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;937153(I have been called a big meanie for advocating this mindset.)

Fuck 'em.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;937150I like your blog.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;937153Nice blog.

Thank you both.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;937152False dichotomy.  Rules can make eminent sense in terms of making a game that works and plays well without making sense in the "fictional game world."  Hit points and XP for gold work to make a very well-playing game of a certain type.  Some of us just aren't pedantic assweasels.

Huh. Sounds like a slightly different perspective saying the same sort of thing.

I know Gronan's in one of his moods where anything even remotely resembling real life in a game is anathema, so I apologize for what this is about to do to his hemorrhoids...

Quote from: darthfozzywig;937150The original endgame of D&D was a completely different game.

Just like real life.
Player becomes coach.
Cop moves behind a desk.
Soldiers move from being a grunt to commanding a squad, then platoon, then company.
Doctor becomes head of a department.

You get good enough at anything, you cease to be the one with boots on the ground and become the one planning and giving orders, because that's how shit works, it's how humanity has always and will always work.  Even systems that are designed to be run with the lowest common denominator, cream rises to the top despite the bureaucracy and you cease doing what you love, to managing people who are doing what you love.

But...whoever said that's what you HAD to do?  
The King wants to make you a Baron and take over his most dangerous frontier province.  You wait until you get out of his throne room away from his guards, then hit the frontier province and keep on riding.  
The people want you to lead them, say no.  Just be the one who takes out threats and enriches the local economy and have them elect other leaders.  Since you're the one leveling by killing all the bad guys, you can always waste the stupid tinpot dictators and cattlemen with delusions of grandeur who become the wannabe BBEG.

Quote from: CRKrueger;937282But...whoever said that's what you HAD to do?  
The King wants to make you a Baron and take over his most dangerous frontier province.  You wait until you get out of his throne room away from his guards, then hit the frontier province and keep on riding.

That's a good point. Building a stronghold - and again, not every character is allowed to do this - is something you choose to do, not something you're required to do.

Quote from: CRKrueger;937282I know Gronan's in one of his moods where anything even remotely resembling real life in a game is anathema, so I apologize for what this is about to do to his hemorrhoids...

Just like real life.
Player becomes coach.
Cop moves behind a desk.
Soldiers move from being a grunt to commanding a squad, then platoon, then company.
Doctor becomes head of a department.

You get good enough at anything, you cease to be the one with boots on the ground and become the one planning and giving orders, because that's how shit works, it's how humanity has always and will always work.  Even systems that are designed to be run with the lowest common denominator, cream rises to the top despite the bureaucracy and you cease doing what you love, to managing people who are doing what you love.

But...whoever said that's what you HAD to do?  
The King wants to make you a Baron and take over his most dangerous frontier province.  You wait until you get out of his throne room away from his guards, then hit the frontier province and keep on riding.  
The people want you to lead them, say no.  Just be the one who takes out threats and enriches the local economy and have them elect other leaders.  Since you're the one leveling by killing all the bad guys, you can always waste the stupid tinpot dictators and cattlemen with delusions of grandeur who become the wannabe BBEG.

And since enough people wanted to do that instead of build a stronghold et al, they took out the stronghold building part of the game.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;937316And since enough people wanted to do that instead of build a stronghold et al, they took out the stronghold building part of the game.

It was still there to 2e. And 5e brings it back a little. Theres still players who like this sort of "next level" of gameplay.

I mostly track food and encumbrance in post-apocalyptic campaigns, or during expeditions when the PCs can't take enough pack animals for some reason. Neither has happened in a while, though:).
If I did, I'd probably let them explain how they're packing stuff and what, then check the required numbers against the days of travel;).

For my part, I only make PCs track food carefully in situations where food could not be easily obtained. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

As for encumbrance, I used to despise encumbrance, until the very straightforward system for it in LotFP showed up. Now whenever I use an encumbrance system (which I regularly do in my OSR gaming now), it's based on that one.

What is LotFP's like?

I usually just track supplies by week/tenday/equivalent. Do you have enough to make it one week? And at the end of a week check off those supplies. (assuming nothing else changed that in between.)

Whereas in Dragon Storm its day to day checks due to its wilderness base rather than dungeon. Though as mentioned earlier its possible to forage and get along.

One interesting thing in 5e was that it got me to paying more attention to the logistics of feeding your pack animals and the logistics of transporting the feed. About 150lb just to cover 10 days for the horse pulling the caravan home. Another 70lb per party member. 360lb of supplies alone. But we are good to go for a full 10 days on our own if need be.