Quote from: Snowman0147;913152If I can give you a drink through the internet I would.  That deserves a up vote.

You could buy a bottle online and have it drop shipped.

Quote from: Bren;913186You have an entire room devoted to selective word choice? Wow.

If you don't have a devoted room, then the term that most of us wordsmiths use for the process of being a wordsmith is wordsmithing.

Quote from: Spike;913244Of COURSE I do.  Its where I keep my banhammer, where I forge my neologisms!

Oh cool i always wondered where that eloquence came from.
Tell me though how big is a wordsmiths anvil?
I am wondering if we have the room for the likes of one as my sister would enjoy using it.

Quote from: Omega;913259Your also in a thread where at least two someones have now claimed that everything from Kimba to Macross is a cover for pedophillia and misogyny because Japan is a rape culture.

Im not so sure you are right on the functional part...

Well if you have a preconceived notion and refuse to listen to the contrary You get well you get Victorian history books about medieval arms and armor.

Quote from: Bren;913305I don't know what you mean by "relatively recent." What's your point of comparison?

• The early 11th C Tale of Genji?
• The Shogunate period and the interaction with Europe during the age of exporation in the 16th and early 17th centuries?
• The opening of Japan in the mid 19th century?
• The first animes made in Japan circa 1910 or so?
• Japan pre-WWII e.g. 1920s and 1930s?
• Japan post-WWII when the birth rate started to drop rather precipitously in the 1950s as did the death rate?
• The 1960s with Astroboy, Marine Boy, or Kimba the White Lion when the birth rate stabilized for a while?
• The 1970s with Space Battleship Yamato, Mobile Suit Gundam, Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro, or Rose of Versaille when the birth rate began dropping again?
• The 1980s with Vampire Hunter D, Bubblegum Crisis, or Ghost in the Shell (birth rate continues to drop and death rate begins to rise)?
• The after the 1980s (birth rate still dropping; death rate still rising)?
• Or the mid 2000s when the birth rate actually dropped below the death rate driving the current negative population growth rate?

I doubt there are many, if any posters, whose personal memory goes back much before the 1960s. And if it does, it probably doesn't include much Japanese culture. So the meaning of the phrase relatively recently is itself highly relative.

I'd personally place the transition towards extreme infantization around the mid 1990's, really starting to hit around the early 2000s. Rei, from Neon Genesis Evangelion, for example, was designed as a response to the growth of moe characters. Ironically, she ended up being a template for moe characters going forward. You see the same phenomena with male characters as well. I'd say that the "traditional" anime protagonists tend to be in their early to late twenties. Spike from Cowboy Bebop, Goku, Kenshiro from fist of the North Star, if you look at the shows cited from the 70's and 80's all but Gundam primarly star twenty somethings. Even Gundam is mostly populated by adults, and has an incredibly powerful underlying theme of what war does to child soldiers forced to fight. However, it seems like as a whole, the medium is switching to high school age as the baseline. This article covers how age is depicted quite well: http://www.theprospect.net/why-anime-almost-always-has-high-school-protagonists-40204. I'd link this to the aging of Japan and the increasing nostalgia and fetish for high school days, when life was simpler and the pressures of adulthood in a brutal economy weren't around (despite the 90's being the peak of the slowdown, it seems like the cultural impact was somewhat delayed as the decline of the economy started to become ever more permanent).

Quote from: Xanther;913301Adaption is the thing these days in Hollywood, which really isn't such a bad thing.

Just saying The Strain has the monstrous vampire thing on the little screen.

Yeah, I like it, I haven't read the novels.  A little disappointed to see the "Society of Elder Vampires" crop up, but still waiting for Season Three.

Quote from: Omega;913251Uh. Since when was having your blood sucked out by a leech "rape"?

It's not the act, so much as the intended violation.  The original Vampire story, before the whole stupid romanticizing of the human shaped mosquitoes was an analog to the abusive boyfriend.  It was meant to scare women away from the 'bad boys'.  Unfortunately, like all things in life, especially when women are involved, the opposite effect happened.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913279If you are correct that Hentai simply means "porn" then I'm sure there must be Hentai somewhere that doesn't include monsters or some form of intercourse that begins with forced sex and leads to orgasm because the woman really wants it despite earlier protests.

"Hentai" is depiction of abnormal sex, but the huge volume of manga (and anime) out there that dwarfs anything else. And like many imported words, the understood meaning is a bit off from the original meaning - sort of like how so many people thing sushi is raw fish on a pat of pickled rice, rather than being pickled rice that usually has raw fish on it. It is kind of amusing to see the embarrassed reaction of older Japanese people when they learn that "hentai" is a well known export from Japan.

Quote from: Alzrius;913215The irony here is that I've lived in Japan before, and studied the culture professionally, and so I feel quite comfortable in saying that I have a "real grip" on the cultural motivations involved. To whit, the idea that anime "in general" is misogynistic or pedophilic is not only untrue, but ridiculous.

As have I on both counts, so I'm failing to see the irony. Anime has entire sub-genres dedicated to pedophilia and misogyny - popular sub-genres that are decades old. Further, it's not just something limited to one author or publisher either. I'm not going so far as to claim all anime has that, but enough of it does that it's what I would categorize as a 'prominent theme'. If you don't like to recognize that as a cultural motivation, what would you call it?

Quote from: Efaun;913189For example, Vampire the Masquerade and Requiem both are very poor in regards to handling the vampirism is rape or worse thing, mostly they gloss over it or verbosely ramble on about it, without giving it any heft in play.

Actually, that was smart business. Lots of people love vampires and fantasize about being vampires. Why ruin their fun?

How well would D&D have done with marketing their game as murderhobos?

Most people want to play heroes (or anti-heroes), not amoral degenerates.

Quote from: Efaun;913189However if they start banning stuff based on content and execution for real, then there are a lot of products they need to axe.

What products?

This whole thread has only seemed to mention about 3 titles.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;913338It's not the act, so much as the intended violation.  The original Vampire story, before the whole stupid romanticizing of the human shaped mosquitoes was an analog to the abusive boyfriend.  It was meant to scare women away from the 'bad boys'.  Unfortunately, like all things in life, especially when women are involved, the opposite effect happened.

er... Vampires were originally undead relatives and loved ones that weakened and wasted away their victems.

That's only because trenchcoats and uzis hadn't been invented yet.

Quote from: Kellri;913348As have I on both counts, so I'm failing to see the irony.

The irony is that you're indicting someone for not knowing enough about the cultural background of anime without realizing that said person does indeed have quite a bit of knowledge about said background.

QuoteAnime has entire sub-genres dedicated to pedophilia and misogyny - popular sub-genres that are decades old.

No, it doesn't. Erotic anime is a particular genre unto itself, but while there are some loli (and, to be fair, shota) titles among them, saying that that's enough to constitute their own sub-genre is iffy; there might be enough emphasis on that particular aspect to constitute that particular classification, but it could be argued either way. You're on much shakier ground with the idea that there's any particular "sub-genre" devoted to misogyny (a term that's become so loaded as to be almost meaningless).

QuoteFurther, it's not just something limited to one author or publisher either.

Is anyone putting forward that particular tropes are limited to a particular author or publisher?

QuoteI'm not going so far as to claim all anime has that, but enough of it does that it's what I would categorize as a 'prominent theme'.

And you'd be wrong to do so. But that's largely because you've broadened both terms to the point where they're fairly useless with regards to what they present. Any instance of a teenage character (or a character who looks young enough that they could be thought of as being a teenager) displaying an instance of sexuality or sexual identity is not "pedophilia." Any instance of something bad happening to a woman - particularly where "bad" can now mean things like "don't play enough of an active role" - is not "misogyny."

Moreover, anime is so broad and so diverse in what it displays that any attempt to categorize anything as being "prominent" across the entirety of it is a fool's errand.

QuoteIf you don't like to recognize that as a cultural motivation, what would you call it?

I'd call it an entirely false premise, probably stemming from some combination of personal prejudices and lack of sufficient knowledge of the subject in question.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913295The Strain is a novel trilogy adaptation, like the 30 Days of Night movie is a comic adaptation.  Hollywood probably isn't going to lead with a monstrous vampire of it's own volition, it has no built in hook like sex vampires do - unless it's an adaptation from some other media.

If The Strain and 30 Days of Night don't count because they are based on books, then Dracula and Twilight don't count either.

As for the anime discussion, I've spent a good amount of time in Japan. Anime is a crap way to examine Japanese culture. As an adult, it's okay to see the latest Ghibli or Disney/Pixar film with the family. If someone is any deeper into anime than that, they keep it quiet. Being a hard core anime fan in Japan is about on par with being a brony in America. Worse actually, as Japan is not as good a place to be a weirdo as the United States.

Quote from: IskandarKebab;913320This article covers how age is depicted quite well. I'd link this to the aging of Japan and the increasing nostalgia and fetish for high school days, when life was simpler and the pressures of adulthood in a brutal economy weren't around (despite the 90's being the peak of the slowdown, it seems like the cultural impact was somewhat delayed as the decline of the economy started to become ever more permanent).

The sort of anime you are talking about is being marketed to a young adult to twenties age range in Japan. That age range spends a lot of money, just like in the West. Once students complete their secondary or post secondary education, they go to work. What comprises work has changed a lot since the bursting of the economic bubble in the early 90s. Young Japanese people are not in a race to become seasoned adults like in many Western countries. You are right that there is a nostalgia for more carefree days, but mostly that is from knowing that when one is firmly within the societal machine, you are entering a world of heavy responsibility. Sure, people are getting married later and later, and enjoying single life much longer. But that actually started before the bursting of the economic bubble with many other sociology-economic changes.

Back to the original topic... The Scroll of ExXxalted or something like that. Tentacle sex depicted and blue charms.

Quote from: Spinachcat;913354Actually, that was smart business. Lots of people love vampires and fantasize about being vampires. Why ruin their fun?

How well would D&D have done with marketing their game as murderhobos?

Most people want to play heroes (or anti-heroes), not amoral degenerates.

   True, which is why D&D shifted in the early 80s ... but there are segments of the hobby that do cater to people people who enjoy or miss playing murderhobos. DCC's initial blurb, anyone?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;913338It's not the act, so much as the intended violation.  The original Vampire story, before the whole stupid romanticizing of the human shaped mosquitoes was an analog to the abusive boyfriend.  It was meant to scare women away from the 'bad boys'.  Unfortunately, like all things in life, especially when women are involved, the opposite effect happened.

I'm not certain Akkadian mythology had a concept of "boyfriends" let alone abusive ones.