Quote from: Christopher Brady;913037In the LA section, there's a demon run ring of child pornography.  However the demon running it is using the children's misery to feed an even greater demon to keep it sedate and 'happy', that if awoken will destroy the world.

The end scene from The Cabin In the Woods would be my team's response.
BTW, don't click the link if you haven't seen the movie. Totally worth seeing start to finish.
For the rest of you, enjoy the finale again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCySBdoY75M

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913090For the record, I think the people trying to censor games that feature rape, even in a juvenile fashion, are wrong. I think the people making juvenile shock-comedy games that trivialize rape and make fun of survivors are more wrong. (But still don't support censoring them.)

This is a perfectly reasonable position.

We don't have to approve of a particular whatever, and we can vocally disapprove, but we must respect the author's right to create that whatever and the audience's right to purchase and enjoy that whatever, even if its not our cup of tequila.

Of course, unless that whatever is totally unlawful.

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913097I have a superpower. It's called "common fucking sense".

Translation: You've never seen the feat, you have no idea what the text of the feat actually says, you assume the worst because, of course, it must be the absolute worst, right?  Everyone else, of course, knows this but they're being disingenuous in not siding with your "truth" because of *their* ideological bias, right?

Seriously?  Here's another common sense view, one based purely on facts.  Neither of us has a copy of ToR to rely upon to actually prove our point.

• This is a dark game about dark Japanese sexual shit.  
• What's one main anime trope - The Fighting Tournament. (Enter the Dragon, Tekken, etc)
• What happens when you mix that trope with Horror Hentai - you get Tournament of Rapists (which BTW is also a type of Japanese Fighting Game, see Battleraper).
• What's one way the heros take down the Big Bad Guys behind The Fighting Tournament?  They enter it.
• What happens when a PC enters the Tournament of Rapists and fights a Hentai Demon?  They may lose, and get raped by a Hentai Demon.
• If such a thing happens, they may acquire the Feat Triggered.
• Triggered may be a Feat that in some way deals with Psychological Horror.  It may not.

Nothing about that screams out *Comedy*, unless you come with a Belief in the idea that anyone who could tread on such a topic is automatically going to do it in the worst possible way and you convince yourself of this hypothesis SIGHT UNSEEN.

There's absolutely nothing intrinsic about having a Feat called Triggered in a horror game that means it's being played for socio-political satire.

If Evil Hat follows up Paranet Papers with character creation options to play one of the survivors of that Child Porn ring the PCs are supposed to allow to continue because it is the Lesser Evil, and includes Triggered as a Fate Aspect, I guess that would be totally Kosher, right?  Because by continually signalling the proper virtues, Evil Hat has become above suspicion?

Now we're right back to where we started.  It's not WHAT is being objected to, it's the WHO.  When some are allowed to say certain things because they meet a Purity Test, or some other evaluation which marks them as the In Crowd, therefore their motives are above reproach and others are not, because they are the Out Crowd, and their motives are by default suspect...

Sorry, that's Totalitarian thinking.  Not in my fucking hobby.

Quote from: Spinachcat;913105The end scene from The Cabin In the Woods would be my team's response.

You're goddamn right!

Spoiler

or Baelin's choice in Kingdom of Heaven.  If the world has to rely upon this to survive: It doesn't deserve to survive.  There are worse things than death.

Actually I think my players might be more apt to try a Serenity ending.  Try to make the whole damn world aware of this shit, so that people will wake up to the supernatural shit going on and appeal to anything out there that's good to set shit right again.  If that didn't work, well, we all gotta die sometime.

Okay, I'm gonna try to make the waters a little less muddy.

There is no Feat in Tournament of Rapists called Triggered. There is, however, a creature called a Phallic Swarm that possesses the Special Quality called "Triggering." It states:

QuoteTriggering (SU)
Phallic Swarms are basically the raw concept of rape incarnated, and are especially fearsome enemies to those who have suffered previous sexual abuse. Any creature that has ever been raped or sexually abused is considered paralyzed for 1 round if it falls victim to the Phallic Swarm’s distraction ability.

Quote from: Snowman0147;913080It is not cute.  Quite horrible actually, but it proves my point that you never argued against.  That is one horrible thing is done by consent and can be stop.  The other is done by force and while you can stop it you end up doing something even worse.  So much so that there is no point in stopping the horrible wrong in the first place.  This creates a feeling of helplessness which is offensive because you can't do any thing about it.

Don't engage, Snowman, he's another one of 'those'.  Already decided to use it for his political screed.

Quote from: Brand55;913111Okay, I'm gonna try to make the waters a little less muddy.

There is no Feat in Tournament of Rapists called Triggered. There it, however, a creature called a Phallic Swarm that possesses the Special Quality called "Triggering." It states:

Hmm, a horror game with a psychological power that draws upon the past psychological history of the PC to harm them in some way.  Doesn't particularly sound like they're going for the yucks there.  It's hard to gauge context without more text, but I suppose you could argue the name of the power is satirical in that obviously you can be raped with a lot more than a phallus, you can even be raped with a vagina, so the name is riffing off of a feminist "The Penis is Evil" thing, but good god you're fucking stretching it to make that claim.  (A lot more than that Satisfier with the space pineapple: Blame the other Alpha Blue thread for that one.)

Quote from: CRKrueger;913108What happens when a PC enters the Tournament of Rapists and fights a Hentai Demon?  They may lose, and get raped by a Hentai Demon.
If such a thing happens, they may acquire the Feat Triggered.

Except I have seen excerpts from Tournament of Rapists, and Triggered is a feat taken by rapists that gives them combat bonuses against victims.

edit: I misremembered. It is, indeed, a creature ability. I think my point still stands.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913108Now we're right back to where we started.  It's not WHAT is being objected to, it's the WHO.  When some are allowed to say certain things because they meet a Purity Test, or some other evaluation which marks them as the In Crowd, therefore their motives are above reproach and others are not, because they are the Out Crowd, and their motives are by default suspect...

Sorry, that's Totalitarian thinking.  Not in my fucking hobby.

I'm objecting to WHAT is in the product. I don't know who published it, and I don't care. I don't think they should be "punished" by anything except the honest market-- people voting with their wallets. But at the same time, I reserve the right to disapprove and to say that they shouldn't have published it. I reserve the right to say that the people defending it, specifically-- not the principle of free speech behind it-- are being ridiculous.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913123Hmm, a horror game with a psychological power that draws upon the past psychological history of the PC to harm them in some way.  Doesn't particularly sound like they're going for the yucks there.  It's hard to gauge context without more text, but I suppose you could argue the name of the power is satirical in that obviously you can be raped with a lot more than a phallus, you can even be raped with a vagina, so the name is riffing off of a feminist "The Penis is Evil" thing, but good god you're fucking stretching it to make that claim.  (A lot more than that Satisfier with the space pineapple: Blame the other Alpha Blue thread for that one.)

Yeah if you think that triggered mechanic is comedy your sick in the head.  It is clearly a horror tool that isn't trivializing any thing at all.

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913097I have a superpower. It's called "common fucking sense".

No you don't.  You believe magic is real.

Quote from: Sommerjon;913149No you don't.  You believe magic is real.

If I can give you a drink through the internet I would.  That deserves a up vote.

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913127edit: I misremembered. It is, indeed, a creature ability. I think my point still stands.

What, the idea that it's a satirical attack on SJWs, or some form of comedy?  From that description, really?

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913127I'm objecting to WHAT is in the product. I don't know who published it, and I don't care. I don't think they should be "punished" by anything except the honest market-- people voting with their wallets. But at the same time, I reserve the right to disapprove and to say that they shouldn't have published it. I reserve the right to say that the people defending it, specifically-- not the principle of free speech behind it-- are being ridiculous.

Japanese Anime in general has pedophilic and misogynist tendencies (yeah I went there), Hentai is just a darker side of that.  Horror Hentai an even darker side.  I don't see Black Tokyo being off limits any more than Baali or Black Spiral Dancers, or Cenobytes or whatever.

It's Transgressive.  Transgressive shit is always offensive, always shows us things we don't want to see.  It's truth.  In this case, truth about a certain type of Japanese Art that says something about people.  Hell, a college roommate of mine had a girlfriend who would probably play Black Tokyo and ToR, have her character enter, and lose on purpose.  She was off the chain.

I certainly don't see it as being worse than the Paranet Papers resolution, the Exalted Eternally Raped Child Who is the Mother of Demons, the blood-dripping rape strap-on picture from Montreal By Night, or the introductory fiction from Clanbook:Baali.

None of which will ever get pulled from OBS.

Quote from: IskandarKebab;913044Those are all terms which in and of themselves carry with them more insult. Same thing with the terms nigger or faggot. You could probably develop more creatively and basely insulting terms. But what makes those terms so horrible is the power and legacy they bring with them. It's not just the insult value of the word, it's the intense dehumanization that has been attached to them by societies use. I doubt a woman has been called a fuckslot before, and they'd still be pissed if it happened, but whore would probably hit harder thanks to the environment in which she has grown up.

Bullshit.  What is the great power in the word 'Faggot'?  You DO know the etymology of the word, right?  I have know any number of gay men who used fag and its derivatives to refer to themselves and their cohorts, in preference of almost any other word.   It is USEFUL to claim its an amazingly hateful word when used by the outgroup (straights).  The same can be said of Nigger.  Have people used both words in hateful, derisive ways? Absolutely, but they have no intrinsic power or abnormal history that makes them special. Its the outrage brigades, including morons like you, who try to claim otherwise.    Consider the word 'Colored'. No days if you call a black man 'colored' it is taken as proof positive that you are a racist... and yet fifty years ago it was the prefered term used by everyone, to include blacks. The C in NAACP stands for Colored, recall.  Its a deliberate perversion of language for political power that you are engaged in, and I won't play.

QuoteAs a counterpoint, take bitch. Bitch can be reclaimed. For example, Ivelisse in Lucha Underground calls herself the baddest bitch in the room. And she backs it up, by kicking the shit out of everyone, making it a term of power. That doesn't mean calling a woman a bitch out of context wouldn't be a complete asshole move. But a motorcycle riding mma fighter, for example, might embrace the term "bad bitch" and turn it into a compliment from people who know her well. But whore, I've yet to see people be able to defang whore, or cunt.

You are so precious!  What is your opinion of the word Bastard?  C'mon... Its a gendered insult.

QuoteAs for thesaurus, I can't help you there. Honestly, the basic rule is just read how the word is being used by the people who it would ostensibly apply to. A slur is a slur out of context, and even within context with close friends you're dancing on a high wire rope. But if no one is turning a word around, then that's a major "do not touch" signal.

  Wrong again!  


A slur is an insult. You are attempting to establish protected groups who we are not allowed to insult.  Voltaire said it best (if only by attribution) that you may know who rules you by knowing whom you may not speak ill of.    The truth is you don't want to allow any 'slurs', any insults to certain groups.  If I need to insult a woman, what term may I use, headmaster?  

THat's why no one comes up with a list, a thesarus, of words that order them in terms of offensiveness. Its an impossible task, because the goal isn't to eliminate a few problematic words, the goal is to control.  

Here is the simple, unassailable, truth, the 'Simple Rule'. You do not get to tell me what I can, and cannot say.  Not in any context. You cannot compel my politeness.    There is no on who can compel my respect. It must be earned individually.  A woman who has not earned my respect does not get my respect freely because she's a delicate flower.  

And if the term is accurate, such as calling sex workers whores, then even if I respect her I will still use the word. The negative connotations are inherent. A woman who really doesn't want to be called a whore can avoid the vast majority of the 'impact' of the word by simply not.acting.like.a.whore.

Just sign up with a new and fake account and report everything. It'd crash their whole report/review system (ie create too much work for them) and they'd bin it or introduce "no reporting things you've never bought" controls.

Quote from: Spike;913164Bullshit.  What is the great power in the word 'Faggot'?  You DO know the etymology of the word, right?  I have know any number of gay men who used fag and its derivatives to refer to themselves and their cohorts, in preference of almost any other word.   It is USEFUL to claim its an amazingly hateful word when used by the outgroup (straights).  The same can be said of Nigger.  Have people used both words in hateful, derisive ways? Absolutely, but they have no intrinsic power or abnormal history that makes them special. Its the outrage brigades, including morons like you, who try to claim otherwise.    Consider the word 'Colored'. No days if you call a black man 'colored' it is taken as proof positive that you are a racist... and yet fifty years ago it was the prefered term used by everyone, to include blacks. The C in NAACP stands for Colored, recall.  Its a deliberate perversion of language for political power that you are engaged in, and I won't play.

Shockingly, times change and the words a group prefers to identify itself changes also. There are older black Americans who prefer Negro as their ethnicity. That being said, it's their fucking choice not yours. They lived through being Black in America, they faced the prejudice and the judgment, they get to decide what they want to call themselves. The same applies to faggot, their struggle, their choice, not yours. To use a scenario that a lot of gamers can relate to, I occasionally jokingly self reference as a bit on the spectrum. Were someone to use it as an insult towards another, I'd be fucking furious. Because using it jokingly is a coping means to embrace your own weaknesses and struggles, using it as an insult degrades someone for something they had no choice in.

Nigger carries with it a horrible legacy, it's what the KKK would shout as they murdered black americans who tried to register to vote. Nigger-lover is the chant of the crowds that attempted to lynch the freedom riders. It's the American sieg-heil, a pure expression of hatred and violence. It's the crack of the whip in the cotton fields, the brutal repression following reconstruction, the silent threat of the sundown towns, the denial of the benefits of the GI bill to men who did the same fighting as their white counterparts, the broken bodies left by the Rampart division and murder of a teenager by a deluded man who thought he could play neighborhood batman. It's an encapsulation of every promise the declaration of independence made that was broken. I grew up in North St. Louis, my friends use the word all the time. Despite the fact that they jokingly call me it every now and then, I will never use it. Because there is a fundamental divide in the America we experienced, and no matter how close we are, that word will always carry even a little baggage. And if you can't understand that, then actually open your goddamned eyes and take a look at the world around you.

QuoteA slur is an insult. You are attempting to establish protected groups who we are not allowed to insult.  Voltaire said it best (if only by attribution) that you may know who rules you by knowing whom you may not speak ill of.    The truth is you don't want to allow any 'slurs', any insults to certain groups.  If I need to insult a woman, what term may I use, headmaster?  

THat's why no one comes up with a list, a thesarus, of words that order them in terms of offensiveness. Its an impossible task, because the goal isn't to eliminate a few problematic words, the goal is to control.  

Here is the simple, unassailable, truth, the 'Simple Rule'. You do not get to tell me what I can, and cannot say.  Not in any context. You cannot compel my politeness.    There is no on who can compel my respect. It must be earned individually.  A woman who has not earned my respect does not get my respect freely because she's a delicate flower.  

And if the term is accurate, such as calling sex workers whores, then even if I respect her I will still use the word. The negative connotations are inherent. A woman who really doesn't want to be called a whore can avoid the vast majority of the 'impact' of the word by simply not.acting.like.a.whore.

Seems like someone's been taking his red pills lately.

First things first, I find it ironic that you are citing Voltaire, a man who was horrified by slavery, to justify your defense of using words that defines someone by their race or sex and attaches perceived flaws to it. Slurs are hurtful because they define people who aren't straight, white men as lesser because of their skin or sex.

Since apparently subtlety is lost on you, I'll make this simple. Not using slurs=/= not using insults. I am not saying you can't insult someone who is a woman or a minority. Michele Bachmann is a conspiracy raving idiot, for example. But when you use a slur like whore or nigger, you are insulting their very existence, the biological factors they cannot change. You are saying: I do not hate you because of a decision you made, I hate you because of your very nature. You strip away their agency and free will and state that the very skin they live in carries with it immense flaws they will never be able to surmount. There is never any fucking reason to insult someone's biological nature. Slurs are also one of the purest expressions of power there is. It's like shouting down from the rooftops, "I am a member of the group with power and it's the fault of your own genetics that you will never be equal to me."

And please, define "acting like a whore", I'd assume it's by dressing up sexy but ignoring you and instead going out with chad thundercock because he has more money and drives a cool car because she can't control her vagina and GODDAMMIT I'M THE REAL PERSON SHE SHOULD BE LOVING FUCK YOU STACY FROM HIGH SCHOOL! Zak S. got paid cash (that he donated) for having sex on camera, yet I doubt you'd be calling him a whore or negatively defining him by that life choice.

I'd say grow up, but I'd assume you've had plenty of time to do so in the past few decades and instead chose to carve out a cave of bitterness where people trying to get you to not act like an utter asshole is the ultimate tyranny. Societies changing and the power you get from being from the dominant group is lessening, tough shit.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913160Japanese Anime in general has pedophilic and misogynist tendencies

I will have to disagree.  Right now, Japan is facing a population crises.  Men are effectively hiding from women, because of the aggressiveness inherent.  The goal for a woman in Japan, last I checked (anecdotally) was to have a career until she hits 24 and then get married to a (preferrably rich) man, and have him take care of her for the rest of her life.  The men are being called 'herbivores' for not wanting to be worked to death at the whim of their wives.

Also, as for 'pedophilia', I would like to point out that as of the time of this posting the age of consent in Japan is 13. The various prefectures raise it to 18 typically.  Also, Japan seems to understand that cartoons are not REAL FUCKING PEOPLE!  At least compared to North America.

Uh, up here in my province of Ontario, Canada, the age of consent is 14, unless they are working for your as an employee, then it's 16.

Different nations, different rules.  We may not agree with it but perhaps if we could accept that...  Nah, this is the Internet, flame away.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913160(yeah I went there), Hentai is just a darker side of that.  Horror Hentai an even darker side.  I don't see Black Tokyo being off limits any more than Baali or Black Spiral Dancers, or Cenobytes or whatever.

It's Transgressive.  Transgressive shit is always offensive, always shows us things we don't want to see.  It's truth.  In this case, truth about a certain type of Japanese Art that says something about people.  Hell, a college roommate of mine had a girlfriend who would probably play Black Tokyo and ToR, have her character enter, and lose on purpose.  She was off the chain.

I certainly don't see it as being worse than the Paranet Papers resolution, the Exalted Eternally Raped Child Who is the Mother of Demons, the blood-dripping rape strap-on picture from Montreal By Night, or the introductory fiction from Clanbook:Baali.

None of which will ever get pulled from OBS.

Worse?  Nope.

You know what's starting to piss me off?  People coming in and telling me what I can't get for my own good, as if I'm too stupid to understand what I'm purchasing.  I haven't been 12 (physically) for several decades now, I like to think I know what I'm getting into.  If you don't like it, that's up to you, but don't try to tell me how I should live my life.  Live your own first.