Hi there!

I am DMing a bit of 1e again (Vs Cult of Reptile God atm), and I found that low level lethality is so far comparable (just a bit higher) to 3e! Why? Because of the very same minus-10-HP-till-proper-death rule.

Unless a total party kill comes about, the survivors drag the uncunscious away and restore them. Which I have no problem with, but Basic D&D has more insta-death when we played KotB and the likes.

So, instead of the wanton slaughter of RC/BECMI (or OD&D) low levels, so far low level AD&D is much more forgiving (except with poison etc., that's still scary as shit).

I am a bit suprised as I had expected more random death and prepared the players to not get too attached to any character.

I like it both ways but find it interesting that AD&D 1e is not as grindy for us as it sounds in many AARs online:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?26290-The-Temple-of-Elemental-Evil-ate-my-Game-Group&highlight=temple+elemental+evil

Opinions?

Remember that if a character is reduced to below 0 hit points restoration is long and painful process. Unless there is access to a heal spell or similar magic the character remains in a coma for 1-6 turns (10-60 minutes) and is further very weak and unable to undertake any adventuring activities for at least a week regardless of hit point restoration by any means short of a heal spell.

So yes, while an AD&D character can survive being brought to below 0 hit points there is no pop up or quick restoration method to get an individual back into action until 6th level spells are available.

Quote from: Settembrini;911701Hi there!

I am DMing a bit of 1e again (Vs Cult of Reptile God atm), and I found that low level lethality is so far comparable (just a bit higher) to 3e! Why? Because of the very same minus-10-HP-till-proper-death rule.

For what it's worth, the rule in AD&D 1st Ed is at zero hit points, the character is dead.

The optional "negative hit point" rule is that if a character is struck down to 0 (optionally as low as -3) with a single blow, the character is unconscious, losing 1 hit point per round, dying at -10. The first part of that is important. If a monster does 6 points of damage when you've got 2 hit points left, bringing you to -4, death is instant. Because the threshold is set by the DM, between 0 and -3, you can customize the level of lethality you want.

That said, though, player choice is probably going to be a more salient variable. You can set the rules to be more lethal, but it doesn't necessarily translate into PC death. It's more likely to translate to more cautious and prudent action, particularly in a sandbox.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;911705Remember that if a character is reduced to below 0 hit points restoration is long and painful process. Unless there is access to a heal spell or similar magic the character remains in a coma for 1-6 turns (10-60 minutes) and is further very weak and unable to undertake any adventuring activities for at least a week regardless of hit point restoration by any means short of a heal spell.

So yes, while an AD&D character can survive being brought to below 0 hit points there is no pop up or quick restoration method to get an individual back into action until 6th level spells are available.

Sure, healing magic is needed. OD&D and even BECMI are even more unforgiving, though.

I read your emphasis on heal instead of healing.
I will check the DMG and make up my mind if I will continue to accept simple healing magic.

Thanks!

As has been mentioned, the negative hp survival rules are completely optional in 1e. They are also quite a bit more stringent than 3e.

What I found with 1e with the optional rule (and mind you I only came back to 1e and OD&D after having gone through BECMI, 2e, and 3e) is that you don't necessarily die as often as BECMI and OD&D, but you do spend a lot of time dragging your wounded back to a safe place and spending a week recuperating. At 1st level, if you get into combat at all, you really have to manage the fight well (bottlenecking the enemy such that the squishies are shielded and that the wounded fighters can rotate out of harms way and switch to spears, etc.) or else someone is quite possibly going down. In a pure tactical resource management game (be able to feed and protect your wounded for the week it takes them to heal up, all the while not getting anyone else dropped) this can certainly be part of the challenge of the game. For lots of gaming styles, however, I can certainly see why someone might ask "so, what exactly does the week wait add to the game? We have to go find a bolthole and can't just press on through and adventure regardless, just make it 24 hours."

Quote from: Lunamancer;911950For what it's worth, the rule in AD&D 1st Ed is at zero hit points, the character is dead.

The optional "negative hit point" rule is that if a character is struck down to 0 (optionally as low as -3) with a single blow, the character is unconscious, losing 1 hit point per round, dying at -10. The first part of that is important. If a monster does 6 points of damage when you've got 2 hit points left, bringing you to -4, death is instant. Because the threshold is set by the DM, between 0 and -3, you can customize the level of lethality you want.

That said, though, player choice is probably going to be a more salient variable. You can set the rules to be more lethal, but it doesn't necessarily translate into PC death. It's more likely to translate to more cautious and prudent action, particularly in a sandbox.

I think you are wrong in respect to the DMG, it is indeed more lenient.
see p. 82, Zero Hit Points.

In other news I abhor the word "sandbox" as it is just playing an RPG and needs no special name as if it was a certain taste.
There is no substitute for good gaming. On this very site we used to assume what was later called sandbox as being thebaseline of well played campaigns.

The only thing that warrants its own word is Hexcrawl.

Quote from: Settembrini;911701Opinions?

I never liked OD&D's below zero and you are dead rule. So my rule is that at level one you can go to -3 before you die. You lose -1 hp per round bleeding out unless an ally takes a round binding your wounds. This limit lowers by -3 per level. This is limited by your constitution. If you have a constitution of 12 you will die at -12. If you have a con of 18 it is -18. In all cases you go unconscious at 0.

I found this a much more balanced rule than death at -1 of OD&D/BECMI or -10 of AD&D. -3, -6, -9 at 1st, 2nd and 3rd level means that TPK are more possible than AD&D. And Constitution has a easy to remember meaningful effect other than some percentage you have to look up.

I am hearing all of you, but I call bullshit on the -10 rule in 1e being optional.
 
It is the BASELINE rule (when reading the DMG, I understand for those who came from OD&D it could have looked like an optional rule)!

I just realized I have played much much more OD&D and BECMI than low level AD&D 1e!

Quote from: Lunamancer;911950For what it's worth, the rule in AD&D 1st Ed is at zero hit points, the character is dead.

The optional "negative hit point" rule is that if a character is struck down to 0 (optionally as low as -3) with a single blow, the character is unconscious, losing 1 hit point per round, dying at -10. The first part of that is important. If a monster does 6 points of damage when you've got 2 hit points left, bringing you to -4, death is instant. Because the threshold is set by the DM, between 0 and -3, you can customize the level of lethality you want.

That said, though, player choice is probably going to be a more salient variable. You can set the rules to be more lethal, but it doesn't necessarily translate into PC death. It's more likely to translate to more cautious and prudent action, particularly in a sandbox.

RAW, the rule is not optional

QuoteWhen any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as –3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until –10 is reached and the creature dies. Such loss and death are caused from bleeding, shock, convulsions, non-respiration, and similar causes. It ceases immediately on any round a friendly creature administers aid to the unconscious one. Aid consists of binding wounds, starting respiration, administering a draught (spirits, healing potion, etc.), or otherwise doing whatever is necessary to restore life.

I highlighted the confusing part in bold. The option is to use -3 as a threshold not 0. The RAW rule states that unconsciousness is at 0 or lower, death results at -10.

Quote from: Settembrini;911970I am hearing all of you, but I call bullshit on the -10 rule in 1e being optional.
 
It is the BASELINE rule (when reading the DMG, I understand for those who came from OD&D it could have looked like an optional rule)!

Got you covered with my above post. Man the new remastered PDFs are great!

Interesting. I'll have to check my AD&D DMG when I get home.

As an aside, for all it's talk about lethality, after the "funnel" no characters in my Dungeon Crawl Classics campaign died.

I tend to chuck the negative whatever rule and simply say that a character reduced to 0 is knocked out until healed. Practically speaking, they won't die unless theres a TPK anyway.

Quote from: Settembrini;911971I just realized I have played much much more OD&D and BECMI than low level AD&D 1e!

I think people underestimate the popularity of OD&D and BECMI. Because who wants to admit they are not playing the ADVANCED version of the game ;-)

Quote from: Ratman_tf;911975Interesting. I'll have to check my AD&D DMG when I get home.

page 82, second column third paragraph. Note also that even if you are healed above zero hit point your character is still in a coma for 1d6 TURNS! That is covered in the next background. So while you didn't die, you are still screwed pretty bad as far as that fight goes.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;911975I tend to chuck the negative whatever rule and simply say that a character reduced to 0 is knocked out until healed. Practically speaking, they won't die unless theres a TPK anyway.

That works, for my part I like to preserve the possibility of instant death. It not likely, especially at higher levels, but it there and players will stop for a second to think before trying something really dangerous.