Quote from: Ravenswing;903812Guys, c'mon.  Get a grip.  Dragoner is trolling you all.  Stop trying to argue with him, refute him, rebut him, appeal to reason, quote him back to himself, whatever.  He is plainly going to keep on saying "Whatever you say proves I'm right and you're wrong, wrong,, W!R!O!N!G!!!", as often as you pour more gas on the flame, in classic argumentum ad trumpi.

Walk away from the troll bridge ...

Looks like we had quite the little peasant uprising in here. Which sums it up nicely, for a bunch of bottom feeding lowlifes, if you were trolled you trolled yourself. If you didn't get it, then you were too stupid or something, why would I care again?

Quote from: Bren;903796I see what you did there.

That is one of my three favorite episodes in that series.

jeff37923, when the butt hurts.

Gronan of Simmerya, tonguing his own pee hole.


How is that book coming along?

Quote from: S'mon;903815Yeah, I think if ever there was a good case for the Ignore List, we have one here.

I like the way you are thinking. Done.

Quote from: S'mon;903815Yeah, I think if ever there was a good case for the Ignore List, we have one here.

Yep, I figured he'd be disgorging the dribble from his leaking rectum at me next, so I already had.  Odds he was going to say anything worth reading had bottomed out anyway.

Moving along, the main attraction of Braudel to me is this: I fancy myself a competent amateur historian myself.  (Hell, I minored in medieval demographics in college.  Seriously.  Go figure.)  I don't want to read someone's filtered interpretation of evidence I don't get to see: down that road has otherwise intelligent gamers claiming that there are more scabbardmakers in medieval cities than blacksmiths.  I want to see the raw data myself, and I'll be making my own interpretations.  More than any other medieval historian, Braudel presented that data, checked that data against competing sources, posed hard questions as to its accuracy, submitted his own methodology to critical analysis, and didn't take shibboleths for granted.

Thing is, Ravenswing, unless we were THERE, even the best research is just educated guesswork.  Still, if you accept that, and accept that everyone has their biases, I don't see the issue, I guess.

In the end, for me, and just ME, if I'm playing a game (any Fantasy game) that's using Medieval Europe as an analog, I will allow for players to be a little discourteous to the people in charge, as long as they understand that consequences will follow (and some of them, might not be all that bad.  After all, if the Players piss off the Nobles in a way that actually benefits the peasantry, they might find allies in odd places...)

This thread has been educational to me, will I knew s'mon and yosemitemike are scumbags posting racist garbage and links to rense (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/04/27/jeff-rense-his-own-words) - in case you thought I wasn't paying attention, I didn't know ravenswing, bren and madprofessor were part of that group too. Old Geezer? Kind of depressing, maybe he doesn't know what they are about, unless this is one of the reasons he was banned from rpg.net. While using some period of France to represent the entire planet, all throughout history, has to be one of the most stupid counter-arguments I've heard, maybe it is signaling or a shibboleth that I don't know about. Then again yosemitemike actual conflating science and common sense, sort of tops that for stupidity, talk about not getting it. This place is sort of where the dregs of the rpg community gather, and is notorious for that fact, sort of pathetic watching them hook up, though rather hilarious too, in a sad way. I will reiterate the fact I wasn't trolling, if I was, you would know it. While the above group is despicable for its ideology, it is their cowardice I hate most.

If at the start this cancerous growth in the nation was not particularly noticeable, it was only because there
were still enough forces at work that operated for the good, so that it was kept under control. As it grew
larger, however, and finally in an ultimate spurt of growth attained ruling power, the tumor broke open, as it
were, and infected the whole body.  
- White Rose, the Second Leaflet

Apt for what is happening.

Quote from: dragoner;903951s'mon and yosemitemike are scumbags posting racist garbage

Racist?  What?  Nothing I wrote has anything to do with race.  What are you smoking?

Quote from: dragoner;903951Then again yosemitemike actual conflating science and common sense,

That was you.  I know you can't be bothered to read other people's posts but you could at least read your own.

Quote from: dragoner;903951I will reiterate the fact I wasn't trolling, if I was, you would know it. While the above group is despicable for its ideology, it is their cowardice I hate most.

Ravenswing is giving you way too much credit.  You aren't trolling.  You are just a typical self-assured, ignorant internet idiot.  Personally, I blame the self-esteem movement.  By the way, are you ever going to ever pretend to try to support your position or are you just going to keep repeating it and declaring it irrefutable?  I'll tell you what.  Show me a period of history of significant length, let's say at least 200 years, for a specific region, let's say a continent to give you a lot of leeway, where there were peasant revolts going on at least a third of the time?

That should be easy if your premise is correct. Time to back your contentions or admit that you can't.  Put up or shut up.

Quote from: dragoner;903951This thread has been educational to me, will I knew s'mon and yosemitemike are scumbags posting racist garbage and links to rense (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/04/27/jeff-rense-his-own-words) - in case you thought I wasn't paying attention, I didn't know ravenswing, bren and madprofessor were part of that group too. Old Geezer? Kind of depressing, maybe he doesn't know what they are about, unless this is one of the reasons he was banned from rpg.net. While using some period of France to represent the entire planet, all throughout history, has to be one of the most stupid counter-arguments I've heard, maybe it is signaling or a shibboleth that I don't know about. Then again yosemitemike actual conflating science and common sense, sort of tops that for stupidity, talk about not getting it. This place is sort of where the dregs of the rpg community gather, and is notorious for that fact, sort of pathetic watching them hook up, though rather hilarious too, in a sad way. I will reiterate the fact I wasn't trolling, if I was, you would know it. While the above group is despicable for its ideology, it is their cowardice I hate most.

If at the start this cancerous growth in the nation was not particularly noticeable, it was only because there
were still enough forces at work that operated for the good, so that it was kept under control. As it grew
larger, however, and finally in an ultimate spurt of growth attained ruling power, the tumor broke open, as it
were, and infected the whole body.  
- White Rose, the Second Leaflet

Apt for what is happening.

You're posting links to SPLC as if they are a legitimate group? It's 2016, that doesn't fly, bigot.

Quote from: dragoner;903951This thread has been educational to me, will I knew s'mon and yosemitemike are scumbags posting racist garbage and links to rense (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/04/27/jeff-rense-his-own-words) - in case you thought I wasn't paying attention, I didn't know ravenswing, bren and madprofessor were part of that group too.

I'm sorry, I'm lost here. I've tried to follow this conversation, but I'm not sure what racism has to do with this thread or how Ravenswing, of all people, can be accused of it.

If a SJW is out of arguments (and sometimes just out of habit because the out of arguments event happens so often)  it is always racism. If nothing else against the "race" of SJW ... .

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;903994I'm sorry, I'm lost here. I've tried to follow this conversation, but I'm not sure what racism has to do with this thread or how Ravenswing, of all people, can be accused of it.

Yeah I am a bit confused on this front too (though I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the details of the most recent discussion). But these last few pages, unless I missed a racist rant or something, just looked like people arguing over how bad life was for peasants in the middle ages. I've raised my concerns about racist posts elsewhere here, but Bren is usually one of the posters speaking up against them. Ravenswing I don't I've ever seen say anything political, let alone racist. To me this just looks like a history debate that flamed out really badly.

I could see that it might be racist if we were to assume ONLY medieval Europe and no other feudal societies during the period from the Fall of the Roman Empire to the Columbian Exchange but I was under the impression that was the condition we were operating under in this discussion. If dragoner wants to make that a point of discussion, that has been done long before and made by much brighter people.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;903997Yeah I am a bit confused on this front too (though I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the details of the most recent discussion). But these last few pages, unless I missed a racist rant or something, just looked like people arguing over how bad life was for peasants in the middle ages. I've raised my concerns about racist posts elsewhere here, but Bren is usually one of the posters speaking up against them. Ravenswing I don't I've ever seen say anything political, let alone racist. To me this just looks like a history debate that flamed out really badly.

It's a common tactic.  When you lose the argument and start showing your ass, claim your opponent is 'ist.  Therefore making the discussion about that and taking it away from the argument you were losing.  SJWs do it constantly, I'm just disappointed to see it happen here.

Unless dragoner is continuing to troll and I'm just not seeing it.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;903997Yeah I am a bit confused on this front too (though I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the details of the most recent discussion). But these last few pages, unless I missed a racist rant or something, just looked like people arguing over how bad life was for peasants in the middle ages. I've raised my concerns about racist posts elsewhere here, but Bren is usually one of the posters speaking up against them. Ravenswing I don't I've ever seen say anything political, let alone racist. To me this just looks like a history debate that flamed out really badly.

Nobody said anything even remotely racist.  This is just Dragoner raising the bar for ugliness.