Quote from: Omega;898170Wayyy back there was an episode of MONSTERS! that was about sentient zombies and a girl's boyfriend becoming one. It played up prejudice as a theme too. Which was funny as all the characters were black. Which was likely the point.

Think theres alother old one called "My Boyfriends Back" wasnt there?

It was "Warm Bodies" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_Bodies_%28film%29

Quote from: dragoner;898179It was "Warm Bodies" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_Bodies_%28film%29

Meant that there were simmilar stories even older than that.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;898097Well, seeing what WoD became recently, I can't say this is any surprising.

It's Old School New School!

Quote from: CRKrueger;898086Well if there's anyone who deserves the title Father of the OSR more than Ron Edwards it would be Mark Rein-symbol-Hagen. :rolleyes:

There's no better signs of the triumph of the OSR than that all these famous old-school-hating assholes desperately want to claim they were always with it.

I still kind of have trouble imaging a game entirely devoted to zombie player characters. Zombies are such quintessentially antagonists that I don't think a game about playing them and just them would be that compelling.

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;899406I still kind of have trouble imaging a game entirely devoted to zombie player characters. Zombies are such quintessentially antagonists that I don't think a game about playing them and just them would be that compelling.

That's because you've never experienced the awesomeness of teh pretentious lucid zombie™.

That girl from I, Zombie is kinda hot.

jg

I'm not sure if this would be good or not, but I'll wait and see. Never was a fan of zombies, but I do like Mark Rein-Hagen and the early White Wolf stuff (pre-Revised Edition).

In Mark's defense, most of the worst aspects of WoD and the WW fandom aren't his fault. Most of these issues such as overbearing metaplot, hyper-pretentiousness, One True Wayism, and elitism can be blamed on Justin Achilli and his tenure as lead developer during the Revised Edition of WoD. Achilli either introduced a lot of these elements or amped them up to their current levels. Rein-Hagen may have been a Goth, but he was only mildly pretentious and Vampire: The Masquerade First Edition is actually a good game, and when you read between the lines, 1e was old-school but didn't want to admit it.

So, I'd rather take something developed by Mark Rein-Hagen over that pretentious and talentless hack Justin Achilli. Or his successor Martin Ericsson.

Quote from: James Gillen;899782That girl from I, Zombie is kinda hot.

jg

I'd assumed this game was going to essentially be the show's rpg.

Quote from: Nexus;900010I'd assumed this game was going to essentially be the show's rpg.

That might have been cool.

jg

Quote from: Doc Sammy;900004I'm not sure if this would be good or not, but I'll wait and see. Never was a fan of zombies, but I do like Mark Rein-Hagen and the early White Wolf stuff (pre-Revised Edition).

In Mark's defense, most of the worst aspects of WoD and the WW fandom aren't his fault. Most of these issues such as overbearing metaplot, hyper-pretentiousness, One True Wayism, and elitism can be blamed on Justin Achilli and his tenure as lead developer during the Revised Edition of WoD. Achilli either introduced a lot of these elements or amped them up to their current levels. Rein-Hagen may have been a Goth, but he was only mildly pretentious and Vampire: The Masquerade First Edition is actually a good game, and when you read between the lines, 1e was old-school but didn't want to admit it.

So, I'd rather take something developed by Mark Rein-Hagen over that pretentious and talentless hack Justin Achilli. Or his successor Martin Ericsson.

I agree that Achilli was responsible for a lot of it, but Rein*Hagen definitely started the pretentious pseudo-elitism.

Quote from: RPGPundit;900677I agree that Achilli was responsible for a lot of it, but Rein*Hagen definitely started the pretentious pseudo-elitism.

If MRH had just thought to copyright pretentious pseudo-elitism, he could be retired by now.

JG

Quote from: RPGPundit;900677I agree that Achilli was responsible for a lot of it, but Rein*Hagen definitely started the pretentious pseudo-elitism.

Fair point, but I honestly think Rein-Hagen wasn't overtly pretentious or elitist, especially when compared to the likes of Achilli or White Wolf's new Swedish overlords. I also think Rein-Hagen mellowed out with age, unlike Achilli or his contemporaries at White Wolf. In all honesty, Masquerade 1e is not really a "story game", it's built and functions like an old-school RPG but it just didn't want to admit it's old-school. Part of this was due to the time it was released, in 1991 there was not a sense of hyper-pretentious elitism in the hobby yet, and AD&D 2e felt stagnant and sanitized (thanks a lot, Lorraine Williams!), so I honestly think Rein-Hagen wanted to create an old-school RPG with a modern setting but adapted a semi-pretentious front to make the RPG sell better and capture that cynical Gen X 90's zeitgeist that was sweeping America at the time.

Remember that VTM was initially intended to be a modern sequel to Ars Magica, which is nowhere near as pretentious as what White Wolf later became. In all honesty, I think Rein-Hagen may have started the pretentiousness but did not want nor expect it to reach the massive levels of hyper pseudo-intellectual pretentious elitism it reached under Justin Achilli's tenure. After all, Rein-Hagen had completely left White Wolf by the time Achilli was beginning to ascend to power in the company and the pretentiousness was beginning to increase. I honestly believe that since Mark mellowed out with age (or so it seems from video interviews with him, I've never known him personally) that he actually realizes what went wrong and of all the storygamers who are backpedalling, he might be the only one who actually does appreciate the OSR.

While Vampire: The Masquerade Revised is definitely what you would call a "story game", Vampire's First Edition is really an old-school traditional RPG that doesn't want to admit it's old-school. Same for Werewolf First Edition. I know, I own both First Edition and Revised and trust me, there is a stark difference.

Just my two cents, so take my words with a grain of salt.

I don't think any edition of Vampire, or any WoD product I've read (new or old) is a "story game".  They're all just regular RPGs that don't want to admit it.

There was no "old school" in 1991, and Vampire wasn't trying to be it or not. It was basically someone slapping together the Mayfair system with the Prince Valiant system and wrote a bunch of moody stuff, and no matter what talk there was of stories, no edition of Vampire, even revised was anything besides an RPG.