I know there's a number of Shadowrun fans in my area (Massachusetts) but I can't get a game of it going.

But that seems to be me - no one seems to want to game with me.

Quote from: Omega;888817In the end Shadowrun did cyberpunk better than Gibson.

Quote from: tenbones;888828Galactus strike you down for your blasephemy.

LOL

The interesting question would be which of the Shadowrun fanbase and the RIFTS fanbase are more fanatically loyal, because they're both pretty damn fanatical.

My general guess would be Shadowrun. Most of the RIFTS fans I know say things along the lines of "I'd really love to play it. I just have to put the work into porting it to a usable system." OTOH, I have a friend who has a Shadowrun tattoo. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but still.

Quote from: RPGPundit;889849The interesting question would be which of the Shadowrun fanbase and the RIFTS fanbase are more fanatically loyal, because they're both pretty damn fanatical.

Having lived through the Great Catalyst Debacle I'd have to say Shadowrun.  The only reason being that they have pretty much purged anyone who isn't drinking the Catalyst Kool Aid.  RIFTS fans are pretty bad too but they are still kind of waging their witch hunt.

Let's bring both tribes together under the banner of the Savage Worlds convention.

Then in during the grand moot, Pinnacle pronounces Interface Zero 3.0: ShadowRifts - Gleaming the Splugorth!

The RNC isn't the only crooked conspiracy!

I'll put my chip down on Rifts fans being more rabid, because the system has remained in its current state. Those boys and girls are troopers. You'd have to be to stick it out this long.

Shadowrun has been pimped out a bit.

Meanwhile... in the sewers, below the ghettos that have been trampled by progress, and urinated upon, below that irradiated rubble in the darkness, CP2020 fans pray to the gods that their cult will be resurrected.

Oh how they are rabid... and hungry.

Quote from: tenbones;890368Meanwhile... in the sewers, below the ghettos that have been trampled by progress, and urinated upon, below that irradiated rubble in the darkness, CP2020 fans pray to the gods that their cult will be resurrected.

Oh how they are rabid... and hungry.

Yes, yes we are.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;890398Yes, yes we are.

Patience, my brother. Patience.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;890030My general guess would be Shadowrun. Most of the RIFTS fans I know say things along the lines of "I'd really love to play it. I just have to put the work into porting it to a usable system." OTOH, I have a friend who has a Shadowrun tattoo. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but still.

Most RIFTS fans I know of think the system is great.

Quote from: RPGPundit;891607Most RIFTS fans I know of think the system is great.

That's because Rabies will make you think funny thoughts.

Don't get me wrong - I have had a long multi-decade love-affair with Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Robotech, and Rifts (and Ninjas and Superspies) - but that's like when I had a girlfriend that was really into blow and was batshit crazy... but you know... It got old replacing my TV, stereo, furniture, and having to stitch/superglue my own wounds.

Rifts is just overwrought. It needs a cleaned up new edition, and honestly they don't have to change a lot in terms of style - they just need to settle on some unified mechanics.

Still don't understand why they don't do it. Given their solid fanbase, the fact that the system hasn't really had a legitimate new edition. I think they'd make a fantastic amount of money. Maybe they're waiting to see how Savage Rifts fares?

Quote from: tenbones;891715Rifts is just overwrought. It needs a cleaned up new edition, and honestly they don't have to change a lot in terms of style - they just need to settle on some unified mechanics.

Still don't understand why they don't do it. Given their solid fanbase, the fact that the system hasn't really had a legitimate new edition. I think they'd make a fantastic amount of money. Maybe they're waiting to see how Savage Rifts fares?

Simple - the fanbase is obviously not only loyal, but probably used to the system by now. Add to that the experience of watching the various edition wars over the ages, calculate the risk of alienating your audiences, because what might be simplifying mechanics to you will be STORYGAMING SWINERY/needless abstraction/too much realism etc. etc. to others, and it all starts to sound like way too much hard work, no?

Quote from: RPGPundit;889849The interesting question would be which of the Shadowrun fanbase and the RIFTS fanbase are more fanatically loyal, because they're both pretty damn fanatical.

Never seen much fanatical about either. Least untill Cyberpunk 2020 fanatics attack them then all hell breaks lose. Rifts fans rarely come across as fanatical. Loyal, yes. Fanatical. No. Very different things.

Most Rifts fans are kinda subdued really. They just lurk and play and try to keep their quiet little fan sites from being deleted by Palladium. Or wondering what new screwup will happen next.

Quote from: Rincewind1;891725Simple - the fanbase is obviously not only loyal, but probably used to the system by now. Add to that the experience of watching the various edition wars over the ages, calculate the risk of alienating your audiences, because what might be simplifying mechanics to you will be STORYGAMING SWINERY/needless abstraction/too much realism etc. etc. to others, and it all starts to sound like way too much hard work, no?

I don't disagree. But where I put my chip on the table is this: Just like from the days of yore! no single group of roleplayers played AD&D the *exact* same way. Everyone had their house-rules etc.

Palladium has never even been consistent between their different respective games. Some concepts sure. Rifts *tries* to smooth that over - but let's face it, anyone that plays Rifts knows there are ways to smooth things over in the existing system. That's all I'm asking for.

I don't think you'll ever WANT to balance Rifts - (especially since I think such a thing would ruin Rifts as it does most games that try to do that). I think it can unify its various processes into something more streamlined even if that means different tables for different OCC's - but at least make it a little less opaque. Hell, I'd be happy for just them doing a new layout.

Quote from: tenbones;891748Hell, I'd be happy for just them doing a new layout.

This. This.  A thousand times THIS!

Obviously, you'd want to clean up the text, but even if all you did was redo the layout of the books with a more modern, readable style you'd improve the game.  A lot of the times when people say Rifts is "unplayable" they mean "unreadable" or "unfollowable".  They never got to the playing part.

I found it 'unplayable' because the combat system is so defense heavy, and the resources take so long to get anything done, especially if you have the later books worth of stuff.

And don't get me started on the NGR and their Gargoyle Overlords.