Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882833.... arguing why magic and science are really the same thing, which is what the SR uber-fanatics want to say.  

I don't know what the other guy is saying. I am saying in a story since both are just made up by the author magic and science are the same thing.  A plot device to get to tell the story he/she wants to tell.

When dealing with magic there is a line by Chief Dan George, "sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't" (little big man) for me that's what makes it magic.  Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.   If it works all the time it's technology.  If you understand how it works, you are a scientist.  

If your protagonist is using and discovering laws of an energy field or probability distorting matrix, and causing desired effects in a predictable way, than he (or she) is a scientist.  No mater how out there or magical the field is.  

If they are conducting rituals they don't understand, which sometimes produce the desired affect but they don't know how or why than they are a wizard.  The techno guys from 40k are wizards, not scientists.  

The difference between a wizard and a scientist is in the practicer not in the world.  Especially in a work of fiction.  

I guess I started by saying they were the same and went on to explain the differences.  Hopefully I have done so in a way you can understand.  Even if you don't agree.

Second.  It was suggest to me that genera and sub genera may be an out moded way of categorizing and thinking about things.  We don't have filing cabinets any more.  Putting things in one and only one drawer isn't how we do things.  Now we tag things, and we tag things with a bunch of tags.  I would tag, Fire fly with #western, space western, sci fi, blah blah blah.

Shadow run would get tagged with, cyber punk, sci fi, heist, urban fantasy, science fantasy, corporate dragon, distopian future, mutants, corporate warfare, blah blah.  

Can I keep the cyber punk tag?  Or does that gave to go because of the elfs?  

Would a house stop being Victorian if it had a modern kitchen and LED lights?

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882848^ Proving again how Shadowrun fanbois are so prone to Fantasy.

When you're the only one who thinks they are 'right', it may be time to reevaluate why you're alone.

Oh, you believe in 'woo' too? cool, I found something you guys might be interested in:



Fully furnished, so you three can move under.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882855Oh, you believe in 'woo' too? cool, I found something you guys might be interested in:



Fully furnished, so you three can move under.

I play Fantasy games, love them actually.  S'why I love Cyberpunk 2020.

For example, it's been proven that cloning body parts is easier and more likely the future of medicine than 'cyberwear'.  Simply because the human body tends to reject invasive mechanical objects.  So the fact that somehow cybernetics are 'the future' and will be the way that medicine deals with amputations is more fantastical, than having magic suddenly become 'real'.

So you believe in as you put it 'Woo woo' too.

QuoteSo the fact that somehow cybernetics are 'the future' and will be the way that medcine deals with amputations is more fantastical, than having magic suddenly become 'real'.

Say whut? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Eye camera:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413757/Eye-spy-Filmmaker-replaces-glass-eyeball-camera-three-minutes-starts-overheat.html

Cochlear Implant
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hearing/pages/coch.aspx

Where can a brother get a working heal spell done?

Yes, kids, keep curb stomping me. These guys. :rotfl:

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882862Say whut? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Eye camera:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413757/Eye-spy-Filmmaker-replaces-glass-eyeball-camera-three-minutes-starts-overheat.html

Cochlear Implant
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hearing/pages/coch.aspx

Where can someone get a working heal spell done?

Yes, kids, keep curb stomping me. These guys. :rotfl:

And?  The first article is how the device OVERHEATS.  Good job shooting down your own point there, chief.

Here:

http://www.cloneorgans.com/pros-and-cons-of-cloning/20/

Quote from: the article• Easy replacement of internal organs and tissues for patients in need of transplants instead of waiting for suitable organ donors, alive or dead. Since the transplanted organ contains most of the recipient's genes, there is a lesser chance for rejection as well.

Just because we've had cybernetic components (like contact lenses) doesn't mean it's 'easier'.  Just because we're considering the field for medical purposes doesn't mean it's easier.  Just means we (the human race) is considering it.

Therapeutic cloning is superiour than cybernetics at the moment, in CP2020 (which apparently is now, although takes place 4 YEARS from now) it's still utter woo woo fantasy.

But hey, keep tilting at those windmills.  Maybe I can join you some time.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;882864And?  The first article is how the device OVERHEATS.  Good job shooting down your own point there, chief.

Irrelevant. The first attempts at flying failed as well. You're grasping at straws now, my man. lol.

Quote*more irrelevant flailing*

I'll have you know that Wetware happens in the same setting as Software. The latter is cyberpunk, so biopunk is a subgenre of it.

Oh, and pro tip: cloning is not done with the help of chi, mana, or hobbits.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;882869Irrelevant. The first attempts at flying failed as well. You're grasping at straws now, my man. lol.



I'll have you know that Wetware happens in the same setting as Software. The latter is cyberpunk, so biopunk is a subgenre of it.

Oh, and pro tip: cloning is not done with the help of chi, mana, or hobbits.

But Cybernetics in CP2020 is...

Wait, you're trolling.  You're not actually arguing in good faith, are you?  Dammit!  You got me.  Well, there's egg on my face.  I can't believe I fell for it.  I thought I was smarter than that.  Sorry guys, I didn't see it coming.

I'll stop now, I'm sorry for feeding him.

I'm only trolling if you happen to be a rabid Shadowrunner who believes in 'woo woo' shit and doesn't like facts. Facts such as...SHADOWRUN IS SCI-FANTASY.

I haven't been talking about CP2020 for like 20 pages now? lol But you assert that CP2020 Cybernetics use chi, mana and hobbits to work? Citation please? haha

Moving on, I'm going to link that video about what Mr. Pondsmith wanted people to think about when he created CP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxt7cwDk4E

Personally, I tried to get feel in my game.  Did I succeed?  I honestly don't know.  But it's what I wanted to get across to my players.

Aaaand....



One rabid SR fanboi down...look at how well behaved he is now. :teehee:

Anyone else have any playstyle they preferred?

Most of my games were street level conspiracies, except for one which lasted the longest which was an episodic (as in each adventure was self-contained) Doc Wagon team (Gave them the AV and everything, and although they freelanced a bit, they were the closest things to 'heroes' the setting ever allowed.)

So what did the rest of you guys focus on?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;882884Anyone else have any playstyle they preferred?
...

So what did the rest of you guys focus on?

Mostly cyber-mercenary kind of things, or Heat-like stuff.  I ran some gang-ish stuff, and played in some gang-ish stuff, but most of it was very Solo oriented.  I did play in one game where the GM attempted to make cyberware a very personal horror kind of thing, but since he didn't let us players know about it beforehand, it kind of failed.

I did play in some games where other GMs added supernatural elements to their games, so even pre-Shadowrun, I was seeing a desire for overt supernatural elements.  Post-Shadowrun,  some used the Night's Edge stuff, and one just plain ran Vampire, but in the Cyberpunk world.

QuoteOriginally Posted by ArrozConLeche
^ Proving again how Shadowrun fanbois are so prone to Fantasy.

Except Im not.

Keep trolling though. The patheticness is at least illuminating.

So on the last page before the flame war (actually maybe in the middle of the flame war) I have some points to make and questions to ask about genera.

I was still interested in that discussion.  Arguing about litature is fun.