Quote from: Jiaxingseng;881298Well... I published it, so of course I would recommend it?  

OK.  I published it when I was working for a company that is basically now defunct because of all sorts of bad decisions that I didn't stop.  Wuxia is a genre I now appreciate but is not my favorite genre.  

The game is narrative but very crunchy.  Similar in mechanics ( a little bit) to 7 Seas and WoD... although at the time it was being made I didn't know that.  And I would say those mechanics are better than 7 Seas and WoD, but I don't think that is saying much.  It is slow-ish because it emphasizes narrative combat.  It has, by far, the most faithful adaptation of source material of any type of wuxia game.  It has great art (IMO).  It has awesome and enjoyable character generation and customization which creates balanced characters that are all different.  

Basically, if you want to play a narrative wuxia game that adheres to wuxia literature (no supernatural stuff or creatures, etc), has a combat mechanic which emulates that, plays best in sand-box mode, and is beautfiful to look at, then get it.  If you like real wuxia but like it rules-lite, then get LotW for the settings... I swear the only way to get more faithful to the source material is to translate Jin Yong (Hong Kong English name Louis Cha.).. whu wrote wuxia novels published in serial newspapers in Hong Kong in the 1960s... Shaw Brothers movies are usually based on his works... and put those into your game.

But if you are not into wuxia, or you think wuxia is like Dragonball (or Oriental Adventures), or you hate narrative mechanics, or you only like rules-lite game... then this is not a game for you.

(Doh. I missed the part where you said you had a hand in publishing it.)

I am a big fan of wuxia movies, though. I'll check it out, thanks!

I don't think you should worry about it. If you like at those few designers who are successful enough to make a living a designing RPGs, they are above RPG culture wars. Kenneth Hite, for example, has made great books from traditional RPGs like GURPS and for the more narrative GUMSHOE. He's also done stuff for Savage Worlds, which is largely traditional with some narrative elements.

Worrying about abstract, ideological battles on the Internet is for losers. All that matters is whether an idea is fun during playtesting. Maybe players will like the Lore Cards, and hate the social combat. Maybe the other way round. Use or don't use the idea because it of how it works in play. Deciding whether or not to keep it based on whether it meets the abstract ideals of people that have never played it is a terrible design process. Don't talk about it. Try it out. Have other people try it out. See what happens.

First, I'm going to join the chorus of "screw categories, these are just for ease of conversation". And sometimes, they're not even that.

Quote from: Jiaxingseng;881298Well... I published it, so of course I would recommend it?  

OK.  I published it when I was working for a company that is basically now defunct because of all sorts of bad decisions that I didn't stop.  Wuxia is a genre I now appreciate but is not my favorite genre.  

The game is narrative but very crunchy.  Similar in mechanics ( a little bit) to 7 Seas and WoD... although at the time it was being made I didn't know that.  And I would say those mechanics are better than 7 Seas and WoD, but I don't think that is saying much.  It is slow-ish because it emphasizes narrative combat.  It has, by far, the most faithful adaptation of source material of any type of wuxia game.  It has great art (IMO).  It has awesome and enjoyable character generation and customization which creates balanced characters that are all different.  

Basically, if you want to play a narrative wuxia game that adheres to wuxia literature (no supernatural stuff or creatures, etc), has a combat mechanic which emulates that, plays best in sand-box mode, and is beautfiful to look at, then get it.  If you like real wuxia but like it rules-lite, then get LotW for the settings... I swear the only way to get more faithful to the source material is to translate Jin Yong (Hong Kong English name Louis Cha.).. whu wrote wuxia novels published in serial newspapers in Hong Kong in the 1960s... Shaw Brothers movies are usually based on his works... and put those into your game.

But if you are not into wuxia, or you think wuxia is like Dragonball (or Oriental Adventures), or you hate narrative mechanics, or you only like rules-lite game... then this is not a game for you.

Also, as someone who just put a stop to a LotW game (and one of the few people who can almost run LotW without checking the rulebook) I can confirm the above is true;).

Quote from: Cave Bear;881302(Doh. I missed the part where you said you had a hand in publishing it.)

I am a big fan of wuxia movies, though. I'll check it out, thanks!

I think you should try it. You're likely to like it.
Oh, and feel free to ask for rules clarifications, you might need that as well:D!

Quote from: Bren;881233Yeah. I wondered that too. Not much to add to what Ravenswing already said. A good elevator pitch is far more likely to pique my interest or tell me your game is not for me than is how you decide to pigeonhole your game.

Yep.

My mention of backcovers isn't taken randomly.  I was a big fan of Frank Yerby back in the day, who wrote historical novels generally featuring male protagonists far more sensitive and progressive than common for their eras, and the back cover blurbs inevitably described the heroes as brutal swashbucklers wenching and slaughtering their way through life.  WTF?

I didn't wise up until after college, when a close friend became an editor in NYC for Ace and Harlequin.  Sue clued me in that back cover blurbs were penned by interns who never read more than the first chapter, if that much ... just enough to get the names of the protagonist, love interest and bad guy, and to have the faintest idea about whether it was set in the Wild West or in 6th century Byzantium.

Judging from some blurbs I've read, a lot of gaming products are marketed no differently.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;881281I'll keep an eye on that.

I'm just going to re-write it.

So... Lore Sheets.

Examples from my game:

QuoteMy Lover's Body  Relationship Lore Sheet Level 2: Total Lore Points: ) My lover, ___________ , was convicted of a crime he/she did not commit. The judge sentenced him to spirit death... most probably because my lover's body was beautiful. The soul is bound to a stone, kept in the Soul Stone vault. But someone else is walking around town with his/her body. I must somehow bring back my Lover... which also means taking back my lover's body.

In Legends of the Wulin (LotW) and my game called Rational Magic, Lore Sheets have these functions / features:

1. Inform characters (and their players) about lore, settings, and history of something in the world.

2. Define relationships with other characters.

3. Grant some abilities or bonuses.  In LotW, they sometimes unlock special things, like being able to use a sword with a kung fu style which does not use a sword.  In my game, they are used to access wealth, power, and minions.  And spells which have so large an effect that the spell changes the narrative of the game world (like a nuclear bomb spell).

4. They can be made by players and GM.  Often the GM would prepare these in advance and offer to "sell" to players (for their XP) for a discount (of XP cost) to incentivize players to follow story paths that the GM is creating and keep everyone's story integrated.

5. In essence, because they define relationships, Lore Sheets often are personal quests.

LotW Lore Sheets are different from Rational Magic in that LotW, players can buy / create Lore Sheets at any time, while in Rational Magic, the default setting is to only allow during down-time.  And the GM has veto power over these in both games.

In Rational Magic, Lore Sheets convey the ability to tap a limited number of times to grant a bonus involving the target, signifying character's special knowledge and familiarity with the subject.  Tapping it grants a bonus for that action.

I want to use this because  of the following (in order of importance!)

1) It allows the GM to slowly hand out Game-world settings lore to players who have not read the RPG book.

2) it's cool to attach these to the character sheet, thus becoming a diary or log of connections in the game world, which is a reward in itself.

3) Get players to decide on what relationships are important for their characters

I really see nothing wrong with what you are doing here. The lore sheets remind me of 'Dungeon World' bonds, which is a mechanic I personally appreciate.

Narrative game or not is all about what you want from your game. The 'one true way' debate (or fight rather) that plague some circles of RPG design on the net isn't something I'd concern myself with when designing a game. Do what you want, not what other people tell you to.

Quote from: Jiaxingseng;881473I want to use this because  of the following (in order of importance!)

#4)  You've written more than one game using this technique.  One could readily claim Lore Sheets is an element of your "brand."  Especially since you want to anyway and you think it brings an important element to the table, why not?

Quote from: Jiaxingseng;881219First time posting in the main forum here. I'm usually posting on reddit/r/rpg and reddit/r/rpgdesign.  So hello everyone.

Welcome to theRPGsite!