Maybe I missed it, but has anyone actually run group using 3d6 (in order, arrange, whatever)? Feel like you have to be something of a superdude/dudette with the stats for 5E.

I haven't tried it, but 18d6 averages 63 points, and the standard array totals 72 points and has a net +5 in bonuses compared to the character with all 10s or 11s. Troll dice roller and probability calculator says 12% of rolls on 18d6 would be 72 or above. It would be tougher but it doesn't seem unplayable. (Rolling for HP at first level instead of getting the maximum would probably be much tougher.)

No, I think it was just me meddling by throwing in the comment about the opposite stats on 3d6, not knowing what 5e says to do. Does it not mention 3d6 as an option?

I don't see any mention of another random method (besides roll 4d6, keep three) in the PHB or DMG. The other methods are point buy and standard array (which is one particular array available by point buy, included for faster non-random generation).

Quote from: cranebump;880281Maybe I missed it, but has anyone actually run group using 3d6 (in order, arrange, whatever)?

Feel like you have to be something of a superdude/dudette with the stats for 5E.

1: Yes. 3d6 in order for in BX with limited point shuffling. (About the same rules as OD&D) R4h3 and assign for AD&D.

2: The opposite. You can get along perfectly fine with average or even slightly sub-par stats. Like in about every single edition of D&D, the bonuses are nice. But are not a must have. 3 and 4e might be different there. Everything I saw of 3e seems to indicate heavy emphasis on pumping bonuses as high as possible.) The thing with 5e is that you can over time bump up your stats.

In our 5e sessions I have the lowest overall stats of the group. Though Jan has the lowest stats of the group and had she been doing 3d6 she would have been the first ever player I have ever seen to get not one but TWO 3s for stats! and that was was with r4h3.

Quote from: rawma;880335I don't see any mention of another random method (besides roll 4d6, keep three) in the PHB or DMG. The other methods are point buy and standard array (which is one particular array available by point buy, included for faster non-random generation).

Noted that too. Was a little odd to not see 3d6 in order not mentioned. But 4th ed didnt have it either. 4th Eds primary method was an array. 16 14 13 12 11 10. R4h3 was an option. 3rd ed had the most options.

Quote from: Skarg;880333No, I think it was just me meddling by throwing in the comment about the opposite stats on 3d6, not knowing what 5e says to do. Does it not mention 3d6 as an option?

I thought it did.  I stand corrected.  I recall seeing that, but...

For formalized play (the Adventure League stuff) is point buy and array only, though.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;880362I thought it did.  I stand corrected.  I recall seeing that, but...

For formalized play (the Adventure League stuff) is point buy and array only, though.

I'm wondering how suicidal it would be to enforce 3d6. The assumption is characters have no negatives (or, at most 1 minor negative). Makes you wonder why we bother with negative numbers anyway (monster design, I guess).

I used 3d6 in-order once for 5E after some of the players convinced me to do it.

They weren't nearly so enthusiastic when they rolled low numbers.

Array. Fairer than random, faster than point-buy.

5E poses some extra limitations with array-setting since some characters (notably humans) benefit more from odd numbers. My players mostly like uber-stats so I was thinking of doing something like 18,17,16,15,14,13.

Which looks like the combination an idiot puts on their locker, but actually is specifically set up so that there are three odd numbers (so regular humans are better than 'feat humans', which are better than other races with a single +1), and with the lowest-number odd so that any +1s the character does get from race could be used to either bolster their worst stat (the 13) or grab a second 18.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;880674Array. Fairer than random, faster than point-buy.

5E poses some extra limitations with array-setting since some characters (notably humans) benefit more from odd numbers. My players mostly like uber-stats so I was thinking of doing something like 18,17,16,15,14,13.

Which looks like the combination an idiot puts on their locker, but actually is specifically set up so that there are three odd numbers (so regular humans are better than 'feat humans', which are better than other races with a single +1), and with the lowest-number odd so that any +1s the character does get from race could be used to either bolster their worst stat (the 13) or grab a second 18.

Mods with above array:
4,3,3,2,2,1

Mods with above array, non-variant human:
4,4,3,3,2,2

Mods with above array, variant (feat) human:
4,4,3,3,2,1, plus a feat and +1 skill.

Mods with above array, average +2/+1 non-human:
go for 20 in stat) 5,4,3,2,2,1
improve 17&14) 4,4,3,3,2,1
plus whatever non-human bennies.

Overall, non-variant humans' only benefit is merely +1 on their lowest stat...

I would go back to the drawing board or open use to point buy, personally.

Its a +1 to the lowest stat if you're assuming that if you had two +1s (for non-variant), you'd necessarily be raising the two higher odd values? IDK that that's necessarily true.
I think adding a fourth odd number might be giving regular humans too much.
Otherwise, I suppose I could go with something like [18,17,15,15,14,12] - an extra odd-number in the middle.

Once you cover your prime stat, con for hp, and at least two of your 1st tier saves you are usually good. This generous stat line leaves no negatives or 0 mods, only positive mods. So moreso than before there's little to worry about in terms of covering weaknesses.

Therefore the difference between regular non-variant humans with +1s to all stats, and others with focused stats plus extra bennies, is no longer about the non-variant human advantage of being well-rounded, i.e. avoiding weaknesses.

Thus all that's left is looking for extra bennies outside stats.

So unless you make the stat advantage strikingly larger it doesn't help much since everyone else also gets an advantage in everything, too.

Once you see the other racial bennies, (and extra skills, and feats,) in action it really is no comparison at all to this minor bump on the lowest stat. Choosing a race to fit the class is not that hard already. Maintaining the well-rounded advantage necessarily entails avoiding casual stat inflation.

You seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel here. From what my inner munchkin senses tell me, "you're doing it wrong." Take a cue from the gnashing of teeth over the 5e point buy issue to get a sense of why that solution works; it's pissing off all the right people, who badwrongfun chargen to kill light-hearted table interaction.

One method I've been thinking about using for games in which stats matter a lot is get a deck of cards and pick out 18 numerical cards from ace to six (depending on what stats you want the players to have you could have three of each or four sixes and two aces or whatever) and randomly assign three to each stat and add 'em up. Everyone has the same ability score total but they're assigned on average.

Quote from: Opaopajr;880712Once you cover your prime stat, con for hp, and at least two of your 1st tier saves you are usually good.

If that was true, it would indicate that the +1-to-everything-human isn't that good a deal to start with; its not specifically a problem with my particular array.
As it happens, though, I've been playing 5E with bloated stats from the get-go (via various other method) and it still seems to work. I mean, I've definitely found cases where I wished my Str ranger also had Dex (for better missile attacks) or my Dex fighter had more Str (e.g. after finding a +1 longsword) and so on.

QuoteYou seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel here. From what my inner munchkin senses tell me, "you're doing it wrong." Take a cue from the gnashing of teeth over the 5e point buy issue to get a sense of why that solution works; it's pissing off all the right people, who badwrongfun chargen to kill light-hearted table interaction.

:rolleyes: