Quote from: Willie the Duck;879554So, kind of like every child in a movie or TV show, huh (I'm thinking Terminator 2, The Walking Dead, etc.)? Yeah, that doesn't sound fun.

Games are not movies or TV shows.

Also, many RPGs feature a fair amount of combat.  Not only will most children not be real useful in combat, but the human race has this strange instinct to protect its larvae, so in character adults would be trying to keep the child safe and or out of combat.  Essentially, a child is the ultimate "special snowflake."

Quote from: Bren;879652Obfuscate what, exactly?

Because this looks like you once again not answering that question.

Is it that you don't understand what point you were trying to make in the first place? Or are you unable to clearly state it?

Dance, monkey! Dance!

And actually, why is it only you that is having trouble understanding my point? That is really the last thing I am curious about with you because you have become boring.

Quote from: Elfdart;879692And if it's not (I don't mean a campaign that's hostile to such a notion, just indifferent), you've wasted your efforts. If I go to great lengths to describe the exact shade of brown of my character's hair, and hair color plays no role in the campaign, it was for naught, now wasn't it?

If it improves your play experience by giving you a better image of your character and thus makes the game more fun then its served a purpose.

Quote from: jeff37923;879744Dance, monkey! Dance!

Yeah that seemed to be your point. Typical jeff.

Quote from: Bren;879747Yeah that seemed to be your point. Typical jeff.

Awwww, don't pout. All I did was mock your own intellectual dishonesty. Better luck next time.

Quote from: jeff37923;879762Awwww, don't pout. All I did was mock your own intellectual dishonesty. Better luck next time.

Also typical jeff. :hand:

Quote from: jeff37923;879744Dance, monkey! Dance!

And actually, why is it only you that is having trouble understanding my point? That is really the last thing I am curious about with you because you have become boring.

I would seriously suggest he might be the only one reading your point, because I tried to follow the discussion between you two back to its start, and simply gave up;).

Quote from: AsenRG;879963I would seriously suggest he might be the only one reading your point, because I tried to follow the discussion between you two back to its start, and simply gave up;).

Does it matter? If the last page or so is any indication, they've both declared themselves the winner and are just here to very visibly pat themselves on the back in front of the other.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;879974Does it matter? If the last page or so is any indication, they've both declared themselves the winner and are just here to very visibly pat themselves on the back in front of the other.

The discussion is pretty simple:

Bren: Player's don't always need to read the rules....

Jeff: Players should read the rules...

and back and forth for 3 or so pages.


The reason why a Player should read the rules is when they're using a system that is derived from a strong basis for System Mastery. Take into account both 3rd Edition and Pathfinder. I would never suggest to a player that he not read the rules for that specific edition considering the way it was created. Meaning that any attempt at something non-specialized will possibly net you a Punch in the Face (Attack of Opportunity), a penalty on the roll (non-lethal damage, special attacks against anything larger than you), and the chance that your special attempt will be turned against you (disarm, trip, etc.)

The reason why a Player should NOT read the rules is when they're using a system OR has a DM more likely to invoke liberal adjudication when they try something. In D&D, this was seen in pre-WotC days and in some non-Organized play with 4e and now with 5e. Basically the player doesn't HAVE to rely on strict interpretations of the rules to figure out if they can do something or not and trusts the DM to come up with an amicable roll/justification for the scenario to proceed.

In other words Adjudication (sometimes referred to as "Mother May I") Vs. Codification (sometimes referred to as "Rules Lawyering")

Quote from: AsenRG;879963I would seriously suggest he might be the only one reading your point, because I tried to follow the discussion between you two back to its start, and simply gave up;).

Scrolling down with the mouse is the best way to read some of these threads ...

Quote from: Batman;879981The discussion is pretty simple

I'd add the bolded bit below, but yeah you pretty much got it.

Bren: Player's don't always need to read the rules and many do not....

Quote from: Bren;879839Also typical jeff.

Heh, I've got him ignored, so I'm not seeing his drivel, but I expect it's just Jeff being Jeff.  I don't know if he's just like this when he can safely hide behind a computer screen or if he's a full-time asshole, but the difference doesn't matter much.

Quote from: Elfdart;879692And if it's not (I don't mean a campaign that's hostile to such a notion, just indifferent), you've wasted your efforts. If I go to great lengths to describe the exact shade of brown of my character's hair, and hair color plays no role in the campaign, it was for naught, now wasn't it?

Others have answered, of course, but c'mon.  There's a vast amount of roleplaying that "plays no role" in campaigns.  What my character blows his gold on -- brothels, booze, baccarat or Berlioz concerts -- has nothing to do with solving plot lines.  The orcs in the battle don't give a damn whether my basic personality is sullen, cheerful or manic, and there aren't many personality traits I could exhibit that add or subtract a single pip of damage I might to do them.  The trap I'm trying to disarm is entirely unimpressed by my garb, my psych lims, that I talk to cats as if they were people, that I tend to read random prayers over the bodies of the blokes I killed, or that the lady sitting across the room from me is playing my daughter.

I choose such traits because I want to play my characters as something other than a playing piece in a board game.  So do many other players.  Do I care all that much about hair color?  No, not really.  But RP's a spectrum.  You care about elements I don't, I care about elements you don't, and as long as we're having fun, nothing's going for naught.

How a lot of arguments on this site go:

Quote from: Elfdart;879686You've just proved my point: You described your character in a few lines.

I don't think anyone was arguing that you couldn't describe most character in a few lines. But some don't find that adequate for their enjoyment.

/my charred leering husk clinging to the cauldron
...
*pop*

:popcorn: