Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879192I actually prefer for players not to read the rules.  "Just tell me what you want to do."

Which is an individual preference.

I prefer a mix.

I grew up with a core group of people learning the rules to board games and RPGs together. We had multiple GMs in our core RPG group. So I'm used to some players knowing the rules because they too are GMs. Personally, I like having some other players who know the rules. They help me to remember what the rules actually say and to hash out fair interpretations of anything that's ambiguous.

But yeah, it's an individual preference.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879192I actually prefer for players not to read the rules.  "Just tell me what you want to do."

Which is an individual preference.

I've come to prefer this in some games, but would find it abhorent in others:).

Quote from: AsenRG;879197I've come to prefer this in some games, but would find it abhorent in others:).

yah i can see the fun in it but most of the games i like it would be impractical

Quote from: kosmos1214;879207yah i can see the fun in it but most of the games i like it would be impractical

For me, the games where Gronan's rule doesn't apply are actually the minority, but that's minor.
But when it comes to Gronan's favourite game, he's totally right! In fact, OD&D retroclones at least work best if the Referee is doing all the system stuff, IME.

If you don't have the Players learn the rules, you sacrifice the opportunity to have them learn how to GM. That's fine if all you want is to be the GM. Sometimes I just want to be a Player in the games I enjoy.

Out of all the oddball races TSR presented. The only one I never ever saw in play anywhere was the Swanmay and Reigar.
Kobolds? Sure. Half-Kobolds? Sure. Wemics? Sure. Xixchil? Sure.
Swanmay? Nope. Reigar? Nope.

Quote from: jeff37923;879299If you don't have the Players learn the rules, you sacrifice the opportunity to have them learn how to GM. That's fine if all you want is to be the GM. Sometimes I just want to be a Player in the games I enjoy.

Not really, I can teach someone a system really fast if they have the tricks of Refereeing down. And the ways of the Referee don't depend on numbers or a system, barring some real edge cases.
The reverse is often not true with players who have learned a system.

Quote from: AsenRG;879302Not really, I can teach someone a system really fast if they have the tricks of Refereeing down.

So do they learn those tricks by being taught or by experiencing them?

Quote from: jeff37923;879299If you don't have the Players learn the rules, you sacrifice the opportunity to have them learn how to GM.

Not in my experience.  By the time TSR published OD&D in December 1973 (released Jan 1974) I had orders for eight copies from people who wanted to start reffing.

I, and a number of other players in Greyhawk, started drawing up our first dungeon levels before getting extracts of the rules from Gary.

A player who wants to ref is not going to let a lack of rules stand in their way.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879323A player who wants to ref is not going to let a lack of rules stand in their way.

Unless they want to play a game that is defined by those lacking rules.

Yes, we all know that back in the prehistoric days of D&D, everybody was DIY. That's great, if you want everybody playing games in different frameworks of rules which may or may not contradict each other.

I prefer being able to say, "Hey guys, we will be playing B/X D&D with the following houserules on this single sheet of paper." It gives my Players an expectation of what will be going on and lessens confusion.

Imagine if someone nowadays said they were going to run Call of Cthulhu, but instead of the Chaosium version there was some homebrewed monstrosity that required the use of Rock'em Sock 'em Robots for character creation and sanity checks were determined by games of Hungry Hungry Hippoes? Are you still interested in playing?

Quote from: jeff37923;879304So do they learn those tricks by being taught or by experiencing them?

Both are possible, but in this case it would be mainly by experiencing them and then maybe asking questions:).

Quote from: jeff37923;879333Unless they want to play a game that is defined by those lacking rules.

Yes, we all know that back in the prehistoric days of D&D, everybody was DIY. That's great, if you want everybody playing games in different frameworks of rules which may or may not contradict each other.

I prefer being able to say, "Hey guys, we will be playing B/X D&D with the following houserules on this single sheet of paper." It gives my Players an expectation of what will be going on and lessens confusion.

Imagine if someone nowadays said they were going to run Call of Cthulhu, but instead of the Chaosium version there was some homebrewed monstrosity that required the use of Rock'em Sock 'em Robots for character creation and sanity checks were determined by games of Hungry Hungry Hippoes? Are you still interested in playing?

I'm not sure what "Rock'em Sock 'em Robots" and "Hungry Hungry Hippoes" are. Are they better than a Jenga tower;)?

Quote from: jeff37923;879333I prefer being able to say, "Hey guys, we will be playing B/X D&D with the following houserules on this single sheet of paper." It gives my Players an expectation of what will be going on and lessens confusion.

Only if they know the differences between the various versions of D&D and whatever other games they play. In other words, that is only meaningful to people who already know the B/X D&D rules.

I've actually played both Rock-em-Sock-em-Robots and Hungry Hungry Hippos. So I know what those are like. But B/X D&D means jack shit to me. Never read it. Never played it. I have no idea whether is is more like OD&D, AD&D, or the 2E, 3E, 4E, or 5E versions of the game.

Quote from: AsenRG;879366Both are possible, but in this case it would be mainly by experiencing them and then maybe asking questions:).


I'm not sure what "Rock'em Sock 'em Robots" and "Hungry Hungry Hippoes" are. Are they better than a Jenga tower;)?

Quote from: Bren;879406Only if they know the differences between the various versions of D&D and whatever other games they play. In other words, that is only meaningful to people who already know the B/X D&D rules.

I've actually played both Rock-em-Sock-em-Robots and Hungry Hungry Hippos. So I know what those are like. But B/X D&D means jack shit to me. Never read it. Never played it. I have no idea whether is is more like OD&D, AD&D, or the 2E, 3E, 4E, or 5E versions of the game.

But you can look it up. You can't easily look up someone's homebrew.

Nice attempt at obfuscation, though.

...a child.

All the other choices listed can be annoying. But I have absolutely never run into a player who wanted to play a pre-pubescent character that wasn't going to be godawfully annoying in some way or another.  The default being playing them as deranged kenders rather than children, but there's lots of other unbelievably irritating ways to portray them.