Quote from: The Ent;846536That's a good point - one I hadn't considered! Explains stuff like the FATE version of The Dresdenverse I guess.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;846540I think that had more to do with personal connections than anything.

Fate really has made it without scoring major IPs.
Pelgrane Press doesn't rely on IP (except for Cthulhu), but on the reputation and philosophy of their designers.

MWP with Cortex versions of Firefly, Leverage, Marvel, Smallville and Modiphius with 2d20 versions of Infinity, Dust, Mutant Chronicles, Cthulhu, Mindjammer, Conan and now Barsoom are the prime examples right now of IP bagging to push a new system normally no one would give the time of day to.

@CRKrueger,

I dont disagree with you that getting popular IPs certanly helps those kind of ultra-focused rules as seen on Marvel, Leverage, etc. But its important to also note that the same practice was adopted by various d20 publishers during the d20 boom and the results were... questionable, with a lot of cases struggling to receive the kind of recognition most of the recent crop did. So, my point is: perhaps these ultra-focused designs simply found a natural habitat in addressing the kind of fiction and themes shown on these TV series/Movies/Pulp stories/etc. I certainly didnt try or read all of them, but of those Ive had the opportunity to, I can say without a doubt that they are much more faithful in depicting the kind of action and drama found on those stories then their d20 counterparts.

So, I think I ended up agreeing with your theory ( ), even if coming at it from a slightly different angle.

Quote from: Pat;846245Because people keep using "evolution" to mean "newer games are better".

1. That isn't what evolution means. In fact, the argument is actually an example of religious thinking distorting science, and it's become one of the most perniciously persistent sources of misinformation about natural processes. It's basically Flat-Earthism, except not a joke.

2. And in the RPG context, it's always used as a stealth appeal to (false) authority: "Old school games objectively suck. But I don't have the balls to say that. So I made an analogy to Science! showing the idiots how stupid old stuff really is!"

I quite agree that people bring their agendas to the table when the term "evolution" is mentioned, and that it's a loaded and charged issue.  But that's about us and what's going on in our own heads, not about the term itself.

Quote from: Pat;846245Because people keep using "evolution" to mean "newer games are better".

1. That isn't what evolution means. In fact, the argument is actually an example of religious thinking distorting science, and it's become one of the most perniciously persistent sources of misinformation about natural processes. It's basically Flat-Earthism, except not a joke.

2. And in the RPG context, it's always used as a stealth appeal to (false) authority: "Old school games objectively suck. But I don't have the balls to say that. So I made an analogy to Science! showing the idiots how stupid old stuff really is!"

That is not how I was using the term, I was using Evolution to mean Adaptation.  Newer versions of D&D adapted stuff from the older versions.  That doesn't even make subjectively better, it just means we've changed, and are now seeing things in different ways.  Which is neither good nor bad.

Life is change.

Quote from: Ravenswing;845327... because like in so many aspects of our culture, people are conditioned to want only the New and Improved version of anything.

This might be an age dependent thing.

For example, some people might not like the remakes/reboots of movies and tv shows they grew up watching from when they were younger.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;846586That is not how I was using the term, I was using Evolution to mean Adaptation.  Newer versions of D&D adapted stuff from the older versions.  That doesn't even make subjectively better, it just means we've changed, and are now seeing things in different ways.  Which is neither good nor bad.

Life is change.

You have started using "adaptation" in more recent posts. For instance, "o it changed, one could say evolved to adapt to the way gamers were at the time" or "adapting to how people played because of experience or simply wanting something different" are reasonable uses of the evolution analogy.

But you didn't start there.[1][2] Good to see it cleared up, though.

Quote from: Pat;846665You have started using "adaptation" in more recent posts. For instance, "o it changed, one could say evolved to adapt to the way gamers were at the time" or "adapting to how people played because of experience or simply wanting something different" are reasonable uses of the evolution analogy.

But you didn't start there.[1][2] Good to see it cleared up, though.

The issue is that people want ascribe a differing meaning to it, to apparently, justify their outrage.  Evolution is change, some of it's good, some of it's bad.  But if people want to get all kneejerky over it, I don't honestly care.  It's their knickers that's in a twist, I have better things than to pull an XKCD comic strip whenever someone misreads or misunderstands my statement.

But for the sake of clarity, and it's the polite thing to do, I changed my language so that people understand what I'm trying to say.

Quote from: ggroy;846589This might be an age dependent thing.

For example, some people might not like the remakes/reboots of movies and tv shows they grew up watching from when they were younger.

Yeah, this. Allthough, depends. You got bad remakes (Bay Transformers) but also great ones (Gundam: The Origin).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;846688The issue is that people want ascribe a differing meaning to it, to apparently, justify their outrage.  Evolution is change, some of it's good, some of it's bad.  But if people want to get all kneejerky over it, I don't honestly care.  It's their knickers that's in a twist, I have better things than to pull an XKCD comic strip whenever someone misreads or misunderstands my statement.

But for the sake of clarity, and it's the polite thing to do, I changed my language so that people understand what I'm trying to say.

How... gracious.

It must be an interesting world, where everyone is outraged all the time. Instead of, you know, just pointing out a common fallacy.

Quote from: Pat;846737How... gracious.

It must be an interesting world, where everyone is outraged all the time. Instead of, you know, just pointing out a common fallacy.

"You called me on my bullshit, so I pretended I used the wrong word and that it's all your faults for not realizing the word I actually meant."

The notion that anything old is anachronistic and crappy is daft. Equally daft is the notion that anything new and innovative must be superficial and trendy.

Quote from: Haffrung;846753The notion that anything old is anachronistic and crappy is daft. Equally daft is the notion that anything new and innovative must be superficial and trendy.

Yeah. I guess the right thing to do in this situation is to take a step back, take a deep breath and get some perspective and stuff.

Quote from: Pat;846737How... gracious.

It must be an interesting world, where everyone is outraged all the time. Instead of, you know, just pointing out a common fallacy.

Tell me about it.  I had no idea that the word 'evolution' would trigger a dog-pile.  Welcome to the internet, eh?  I had no idea that people would so sensitive.

I still stand by my usage of the word.  Gaming has evolved, changed, adapted, if not the systems then the people playing them, simply because life is change.  I'm not who I was one second ago.

I personally know people who are still playing AD&D around here, but their gaming has changed from when they were back in high school.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;846586That is not how I was using the term, I was using Evolution to mean Adaptation.  Newer versions of D&D adapted stuff from the older versions.  That doesn't even make subjectively better, it just means we've changed, and are now seeing things in different ways.  Which is neither good nor bad.

Life is change.

This is the better definition, I think. Change. Pure and simple.

/sigh. We could post dictionary quotes with their multiple definitions for the word "evolution," but that would just lead to a dictionary source fight. Those book are heavy. Someone might chip a nail.